Hello HEF, Just wanted to say Aloha from the Big Island of Hawaii. Recently bought my first backhoe. (Going to try to make a living with the backhoe clearing properties, cutting in driveways, etc.) Case 580b Extendahoe 4in1 Beat up, old, rusty as all get out and currently has so many leaks I can`t get it out of the previous owners driveway. Prolly gonna have a lot of questions, I will search before asking, and will post pics just as soon as I get it home.
Welcome! There is plenty of experience here for that machine, so feel free to ask whatever.
I always like to see someone willing to put the time and effort into these old 580's. I don't want to discourage you but the money and work involved in making this machine capable of doing reliable commercial work would probably buy you a newer more capable machine. I quit using my old CK on jobs when it repeatedly cost me more in repairs than I was making with it. If you don't work it too hard or if it's had an easy life so far or if you're just lucky - you may do OK. I still keep the old machine around but mostly for light work. It's a good machine in any case. Good luck. There are a few restoration threads on here that are pretty thorough.
Thanks! I`m looking at ways to repair the hard lines now. Will start a thread once I get the machine to my shop and get it torn apart.
Some people braze them but you can have new ones made if they're too far gone to repair. Depending on the location, you might be able to use a good hydraulic line.
Thanks Grady! Helpful advice is never discouraging in fact it was the opposite. So far... Pulled the leaking hard line, cleaned it, found the pin hole, took it to the local hyd shop and it will be fixed (silver soldered) by hopefully Tuesday. I have another leak at the steering valve and that fix will be next. After that ill pull the starter and find out why it doesnt turn. After that ill free up the stuck brakes. Then I gotta figure out how to fill up the hydraulic fluid for the trans/ bucket and figure out how to adjust the clutch. So probably like every new tractor owner, I got a lot to learn about.
Thanks for the welcome Vetech63! This site has a lot of experienced hands so im going to try to take advantage of all that knowledge. Im not sure how the trans works (i have a 4 speed) so im going to search.
Welcome ABnC ! Here is a link for all of the 580b manuals download. https://www.minnpar.com/manuals5.as...E 580 SERIES PARTS MANUALS&SSSFName=CASE 580B
Do you have the power shuttle or manual? The manual has a hi/low range shifter on the CK - pretty sure the B is the same.
Either shuttle uses the same hydraulic fluid as the buckets but has a different reservoir.
Thank you! Exactly what I needed.
Hey Grady, I think I have the power shuttle. Its still broke down in the PO`s driveway but one last hard line to fix on the PS and then (God willing) it will be broke down in my driveway.
Tinkerer, What Union is the 150?
Local 150 is part of nationwide International Union of Operating Engineers. The main business office is in Countryside, Illinois which is not far from downtown Chicago. Our jurisdiction covers all of northern IL., northern Indiana and extends into western Iowa. That was funny when I read it the first time, then I realized that you typed PS, I first thought it was POS !
LOL Well now POS... is not very far from the truth!
Welcome and good luck with your project. I messed up and broke a hard line on my machine when I was learning to use it. Cleaned it up and mig welded it. Hasn't leaked since.
I might have to consider a mig. With all the rusty lines it might be cheaper than Mapp gas. I just started tearing apart the dash and now considering which gauges to replace. Thankfully the tach is working and salvageable with new face paint or maybe a new sticker if one is available. (Colemans wanted $200 for a tach and thats almost more than I paid for the entire tractor.) lol Thanks for the welcome NH575E, I appreciate all the friendly posts and encouragement.
I think you might find it difficult to repair rusty lines with a welder. If it's just surface rust and there's plenty of good metal left that's one thing but if they're leaking because they've rusted through it's probably not going to work. Maybe you could replace a small section if it's just a spot? Sometimes you can just use a regular flexible hydraulic line in place of the hard line depending on the location. There are places that will make up hardlines for you - best to try and remove your old one for a pattern.
Thanks Grady, understood. I think (NH575E) welding up a hard line with a mig is a pretty good "thinking outside the box" fix. Get' er done! I think for the portability and availability, for me here on Big Island, I will probably stick with the Mapp gas and oxygen bottle set up from Bernstein for now. The brazing / silver solder set up will be more expensive in the long run, compared to a backpack or full sized set of torches from Victor, but at $10 bucks a bottle for Mapp AND oxygen, it will do to fix the pin hole leaks which is what I seem to have most. Lots of small pin holes. Thanks to both for your input.
lots of small pin holes makes me think the line has come to the end of it's useful life. You may fix all those pin holes only to have the line suffer a catastrophic failure when it sees a maximum pressure situation. If heavy equipment is new to you and you've never seen - or felt - what happens when a hydraulic line lets go, google it. There are probably plenty of horror stories out there. It is dangerous to the operator as well as anyone standing or working nearby. It makes a hell of a mess, too.
Grady! You are right on the mark, all the lines ARE rusted, and way beyond their useful life, ~HAWAI'I~ which brings me to my next question for you and the forum... 1) Who here has bent and flared their own hard lines? (Any favorite flare tool suggestion is helpful) 2) Where is the best source for hard line and ends? (Im in the jungle so its got to be Amazon Prime sourced) 3) Do you recommend straight sticks or can I buy a roll. (I know hard line is usually straight stick but never know) 4) How many feet for a Case 580b w/o the extendahoe? (I've got to remove the hoe to mount a ripper so it can wait) 5) Whats the best hand bender to use? (No easy electricity in the jungle so a hand bender makes more sense, unless) 6) Can I reuse the old ends or should I buy new ends? (If the ends are reusable Ill reuse them) Since im going to need to buy the line bender I might as well replace ALL the hard lines at once. * I haven't searched this topic yet so apologies if this subject has been covered in other threads. Thanks to all that reply
Google DIY hydraulic hard lines. There are different recommendations. I have never made my own hydraulic hard lines - I have enough trouble with steel brake lines - but it appears to be do-able . there is copper nickel tubing for brake lines now that flares real easy but I'm not sure if it's strong enough for hydraulics. Nice stuff, doesn't rust, bends and flares easy - but that would be way too easy, huh? Factory lines are carbon steel. There's a lot of hard lines on one of those machines. You'll probably be good at it by the time you're done. I usually just replace them with a regular flexible hydraulic hose but you won't get the same bend radius as a hard line.
I gotta figure out the max pressure and see how high it gets. You are 100% right about how dangerous hyd fluid under pressure can be. I watched a safety film when I worked at a copper mine where the fluid cut a dummy in half (we were encouraged to NOT be the dummy) so I do have respect, plus it can give you blood poisoning if it enters the blood stream.?. I fixed a hyd fitting on a disc with plumbing pipe (40 years ago) but adding up all those elbows and fittings might be more expensive than bending hard lines. There was a post on Oil Burners about bending hard line a while back so somebody is doing it. I'll figure it out. Like Taryl Fixes All says, "it aint the space shuttle!" I will probably have to start a build thread soon or just quit posting to my own intro thread... Cheers
The hard line DIY is something that has come up before but I don't recall anyone actually doing a thread on it so if you do, post some pics and share your experience. Bends take more length than you think so leave extra tubing and don't forget to put the ends on before you flare - sounds obvious but it seems to happen to me at least once every time. Good luck.
[You'll probably be good at it by the time you're done. I usually just replace them with a regular flexible hydraulic hose but you won't get the same bend radius as a hard line. quote by Grady] I tried replacing and repairing with steel tubing it bad news,, if going from part to another part, need a hyd hose some where in the line,, that steel has no forgiveness in it for length.. we were 1/4 in short, cracked the flare trying to pull to pull closed, go with with hyd hose if possible I got the fittings and attached them at each end. measured distance between the two with estimated bends, allowed a little extra when to advance auto parts they put a connector on one of the estimated length, put on and got a better measurement took back they put fitting on other end,, 20 minutes later was filling up hyd fluid, i'm still smiling lol hose sold by inch average $1.25 in for 3/4 size good luck
OK, hyd hose it is. Thanks! Discount Hydraulic Hose dot Com I will make every hyd hose with one hose making outfit, (save myself a lot of heartache and be back in service sooner if I just do it) buy a few dies, buy the reels of hose and buy a few bags of ends. DONE! Now, lets let this thread die ...!!!
Sounds like a good plan. I'd use hose rated for at least 3000 psi as working pressure is around 2000 on a 580. Check the bend radius for the hose you are looking to use to replace a hard line with if it has a 90 degree bend in it.
Appreciate it. Thanks Grady for all your help. I'm looking for a hose maker and a few reels of hose from Mil Surplus out of Pearl Harbor. I'll match the ends to which ever brand of hose I can find or vise versa. I'm on a budget so I got to make due with whatever I can find.
I know about the budget thing. It's an oxymoron - equipment and budgets. Just the parts alone will kill ya. I think the 580 CK uses 37 degree JIC but better check cause I'm not sure about anything anymore. ; )
Yes, you are right about the unique flare degree used with JIC and that its different from the generic flare benders used in construction which, i thinks, 45* degrees... Cant remember if brake lines use the 37* or 45*. Not to put you on the spot Mr. Grady but it sounds like you have made a few hoses in your day. Any chance you would be willing to put together a How To Make Hydraulic Hoses thread and maybe add a How To Bend Hard Lines TECHNICAL thread? (Theres a guy with a tube video that crimps his hose ends with a low dollar 12 ton bottle jack and a Harbor Freight press.)
This may already have been answered and may be a dumb question, but is it acceptable to replace hard lines on these old 580's with high quality hydraulic hose? or is it too difficult to get the fittings to come together? seems like it could be difficult especially in the front of the radiator if the machine has the shuttle oil cooler?
Hard lines are replaced by hoses quite often. A sharp bend radius may limit the use of a hose. Hoses need to be clamped sometimes to prevent vibration damage.
in that area I reused the metal tubing bends,, the hyd shop silver soldered a hyd hose x flare with male threads on the metal tubing,,, threads serve no purpose just a way of making the adpt, worked for me in tight bends GL just another idea
I must sound like I know more than I really do. I've never squeezed my own hydraulic hoses. I have a buddy that has worked in the same machine shop for 35 years and he has always made mine for me. As I have acquired more machines, my hose habit has gotten expensive so I bought a used crimper and a set of dies. I haven't even uncrated it yet. We've had 3 snow storms here before thanksgiving along with some below zero wind chill temps - coldest Thanksgiving on record they say so i've been busy with other projects. I don't think there's any magic to it. I think there are specs as to the range of compression for whatever kind of fitting you're using. As long as it's squeezed enough and not too much, you should be fine. Get some calipers if you don't have any. Clean any debris from cutting the hose out before installing it. You don't want any of that in your system. I haven't made any hydraulic hard lines either. I have fixed some, replaced some, and replaced others with flexible lines. I found out about the bend radius when trying to replace a hard line with a flexible one - just tried to save you the same headache. I'm going to need to replace a few hard lines, too. When it comes to doing something i've never done, I've always found it works to research it and then try it and then you can ask an intelligent question about the part you are having difficulty with. Most things get better the more you do them - experience. If you start making your hoses up before I do maybe you can give me a few pointers.
Grady, hose habit! Too funny! I'm working on getting the hard line thing figured out, at least in my head. The tubing benders for most lines under 3/4" all seem to be used in the refer industry or HVAC. So ill keep an eye on CL for a used hand bender but I wont hold my breath. I have bent a few exhaust pipes (with a hyd bender and or by packing tubes with dry sand/ sandblasting slag material) and that was fun replicating the bends by eye. I'm sure something similar can be done with the smaller hyd tube radii. Maybe a salt? Dont know yet. The trick I learnt' (when I built my last Jeep) was to not get the bend area too hot and to keep it cool with a wet rag as I bent it. It worked but not sure about small line metal integrity. I got a lot to learn. I'm trying out my portable "in the field" pinhole repair kit tomorrow, Bernzomatic TS8000 MAPP gas and silver rod, I'll let you know how my hole filling goes. Hint: it aint gonna be pretty but after 15 or 20 pinholes, im sure ill get the hang of it. Thanks for the reply.
Yes, that sounds like something I would definitely do. Thanks for that tip jimg984 and ill keep it in mind if the occasion ever presents itself.
don't forget the silver solder flux, need to use 15% silver solder, don't mess around and get yourself and others injured, probably will have around 2500 psi, are you sure this the right project for you,, this not a toy repair, think of lifting something heavy and someone helping guide it by hand, and of the bandage repair gives away,, you may want to kiss your wife, kids, and dogs goodbye
What size tubing are you looking to bend? Did you look at something like this? https://www.zoro.com/ridgid-tube-bender-geared-ratchet-58-in-tube-35170/i/G2277886/
jimg is right on and I would also advise you to reconsider patching lines so deteriorated. Fixing a good line that got nicked is different than putting a band-aid on a time bomb. I may not be as experienced as you thought I was but I'm about 40 years ahead of you so don't discount it completely. I've seen many hydraulic lines blow though, luckily, never a hard line. I've also seen a hydraulic ram snap and send shrapnel like sharp edged golf balls when the relief valve failed. A pinhole size hydraulic stream under pressure can cut right through you. A bigger blowout can cover you or someone else in hot oil. That is not the place to try and save money. If you don't value your own life, consider those who may be working nearby when that line fails.
You both convinced me. Come on over about 7am, bring all your tools and supervise! I'll supply all the fresh Poke and POG you can handle. (Please bring your OWN mask, snorkel and Hawaiian sling) Thanks for your warning. I believe its both genuine and heartfelt. I will make sure to pressure test all my repairs and employ all safety precautions following industry BEST practices. But yea, its dangerous...
The real danger is that you will do a good job and the repairs will hold pressure as you will then have a time bomb. It's like fixing rusty brake lines on your car - not smart.
Yea, patching up rusty brake lines on a car is not smart. Thats not really the case here IMHO. My proximity to the ocean (about 100 yards) and the high humidity of the wet side (it rained 35 times in the last few days) together with the poor rust inhibiting characteristics of mild steel (my hard lines are not stainless) and the age (43 years old) living in this extremely corrosive environment kinda all adds up to a lot of rusty stuff. Everything rusts! From the mainland you just can't really imagine how quickly stuff gets destroyed here and how destructive the environment here is. It AINT the mainland. * LOL * I appreciate your concern Grady and thank you for all your helpful advice but unless you are going to air drop me a brand spanking new D9 (just charge it to my AmEx card) I just kind of have to deal with the rust phenom the best I can and as safely as I can also. LOL Thanks for all your concern. I do appreciate your words of wisdom. Your concerns have been noted and thank you.
Just trying to give it to you straight. Surface rust is different from rust that has compromised the structural integrity of the metal. I've never seen stainless hard lines. Where on the machine are these bad lines located? My C used to load the salt trucks that treat the roads so I know a little about what a salty environment can do. I've used this stuff called corroseal. It's a water based rust converting primer. It's not magic. It doesn't bring rusted metal back but it does keep it from getting worse - or slows it down in a big way. They use it on North Sea oil rigs - or so they claim. I've found it to work well. It's just a primer so it won't hold up if you don't paint over it. I've used a few different oil based topcoats and they are all holding up well - so far. Usually, if you keep metal painted or oiled up, you can keep the rust to a minimum by restricting it's access to oxygen.
Yea, Im a big fan of keepin' it real. Even if that message is hard to hear... Thanks for the tips. I've got a quart of POR15 but I think im going to save that and just make do for now. But, this is valuable experience ill use for my next (hopefully better condition) machine. Ive got my eye on a D6 that looks like it will be a lot of fun to fix up and get running. Thanks again