Hey everyone, I have searched through the forum and found some good tips, but I'd like more information. I've never ran a dozer before, but I'm ready to learn. I just bought about 25 acres of heavily wooded land that we want cleared and I don't really want to pay someone else to do it, I'd like to buy the equipment and do it myself and then sell the stuff. I did have a driveway cleared and a housepad cleared to build our home and that alone was $10K, I can't imagine how much someone would charge to clear the entire plot. Anyways.... I'm looking at used dozers and I'm trying to stay at $25K or less. My main thing is that I'm not sure what features I need to look for, how old is too old, how many HP and size of dozer, etc.. Again, this will be used mostly for pushing timber, the trees go in size from small to big (60 feet tall). Also, I saw some people on some previous threads say that an excavator was a better option than a dozer, I'd like to get your input on that as well. Thanks for the help.
i'm sure others will give you some good advice too but i would say that you should look at an excavator instead of a dozer. For clearing land with a dozer you would likely need atleast a D6 size machine minimum to take down any large trees. For 25k or less I just don't think you could get a big enough dozer. I would recommend looking for a 20 ton+ excavator with a thumb. A track loader might also be a good option.
I'm open to an excavator, but I've been looking at prices for the past two weeks and it seems like excavators are more expensive than dozers. I've found a few D6 sized dozers in the 20-25K range, but the excavators are over 30K. I know less about excavators than I do dozers, what size/HP should I be looking at?
I hope you don't take my comments the wrong way, but the type of work you're talking about is poorly suited to a dozer. And with no experience, it's also a good way to get yourself hurt or killed. A track loader or excavator would be the better choice. Unless you can get the trees cut for timber. Then you would just be dealing with stumps, and a medium size or large size dozer would be fine. This would also be much safer. Around here (VA) it's about $1,000/ac to get land cleaned up.....just food for thought.
Welcome to the Forums boatskipper!:drinkup First of all I would suggest checking with local loggers and get an estimate of what the timber is worth, 25 acres is a nice size tract if it has good timber. Yes you'll have stumps and slash to deal with but if you can get paid something for the timber that goes into the till. To be brutally honest, $25K isn't going to buy you much of machine to handle this type of project without spending considerable cash to keep it operating. Good used equipment has skyrocketed in value over the recent years due to the cost of new equipment, contractors are purchasing the good used iron more and more in order to stay profitable. For what you describe I would either suggest a 50K lb excavator or D6 sized dozer, the D6 would be on the small end. Realistically I would budget at least $40K to find a decent machine between those two, even then be prepared to work on it.
I shopped around for a year and finally picked up a LB330 excavator to do just what you are wanting to do. I also have a track loader and dozer but only used them to clean up after the heavy work is done with the excavator. Takes me 5 mins to take down a tree with the excavator, have taken down several trees with loader just because I did not want to go get the excavator, took me over 30 mins to dig around it and finally push it over. I have not tried with the dozer but I would think it would be slower than the loader. BTW- since the work is on your property and using you time, get a dozer, just be careful when cutting around a big tree, they tend to fall when you are not expecting them too. And as CM1995 stated, be prepared to work on you equipment unless you are very lucky.
Yeah boatskipper , At 25K you are in range of a late 1960's Cat D7E or early 70's D7F . Just about the perfect size machine for clearing & dirt work on a farm or job site . Few examples ..... http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10974669 http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11010423 Big enough to do the job and easy to move on a tandem truck & lowboy . Cat D7E was the militaries choice machine for clearing operations in Vietnam . Listen to those four cylinder diesels cracking through the bush . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bJ4RLF6tg
I admire you wanting to do it yourself, and I completely understand where you are coming from, but as the others have said clearing is very dangerous work, not only that but if you buy a $25k machine, you'll have a LOT of fuel and probably a few hoses (hopefully no major engine trouble or hyd. pump problems). In the end you'll have a fair bit more then $25k in the project. If someone else would come in and clear it for $25k I'd be tempted to just go that route.
A track loader with a four in 1 bucket and rippers would be your perfect machine as there is more to cleaning up land than just taking down the trees. Save some of that 25,000 out of the budget for tools and repair parts along the way. A ready to work loader in fair shape can be bought for under 20,000.00
What size should I be looking at?
Have you looked at a larger dozer like an older D8H? They are too big for most people to want but big enough to deal with big timber and with the low demand, are fairly inexpensive as compared to a D6. I've run both and when I hit a big tree with my 6C and have to start ripping roots and building a ramp versus just knocking the darned thing over, I sure miss the power and grunt of the 8H. I've run side by side with a friend and his excavator, and it's nice for knockdown, but a dozer to me is necessary for moving anything much distance to pile and for cleanup.
My brother in law is trying to talk me into a smaller dozer. He has a D4 and has used his to clear about 75 acres on his 150 acre plot and says it will be plenty for my needs as our land is similar. There are some big trees but a lot is just brush and smaller timber. The land I bought has been neglected and needs to be cleared for cattle. But he cuts a lot of the bigger trees down and then chops it into firewood. That's too much work for me, I just want to make big brush piles and burn it. As for everyone saying I'm not experienced.... Well I agree, but we all have to start from somewhere. I've run tractors and other equipment before and I know I'm completely green with a Dozer, but I'll learn. I'm not reckless. Anyways, should I listen to him and go with one his size (D4) or go bigger? I'm trying to keep resale value in mind too. I figure I'll be done with this in a year max, then I'll want to sell it to try and recoup some of my investment.
If you understand the danger, you should be fine. I would look for a dozer or track loader. Excavators are fine for knocking down trees but piling and cleanup can be tedious. Buying in that price range there will be a wide range in quality of machines. You'd do well to educate yourself on what to look for in equipment. Go look at a lot of machines and ask a lot of questions and you will soon see the difference in a well cared for machine and painted up junk.
There's a different sizes of D4. A D4H may be big enough. A D4C would be a bit small. I would try to go bigger either way. Cat 953 963's have been really cheap in recent history. They may be a better buy for the money.
A 963 track loader will do all u would need for complete cleanup of the property with ease. It won't break the bank to buy one also. That would be my choice any day.
I'm with JB on this a nice 963 A model or a B would do this job fine and can be had for under 30 grand.
hire it done. you will wear out your bank account to do it yourself with old iron that will be worth little when you are done.
I can verify these good words of wisdom are true but what fun would it be to have someone else do it.
It's a crapshoot buying used equipment, especially old used equipment. There is good used iron to be found but be sure and take a mechanic with you that knows the piece of iron your looking at - there's a reason why a 963A or B can be bought for $30K and the newer used ones run $100K +. Now I'm a track loader guy and a track loader will fit the bill for what you want to do as well. I got sidetracked in my post above thinking about how much used iron has increased in price over the last 2 years and forgot to mention that. Anyway a 953 or 963 would be a good choice. The combination I prefer to clear with is a 321 and 953, those machines can double team a clearing job well. The exc. lays the trees down and the loader cleans up. Since you don't need both I would go towards a loader as it can take the trees down and clean up. A track loader is one of the hardest pieces of dirt moving iron to learn how to run this side of a grader IMO. Now that doesn't mean anything other than it takes time to master all it can do - and it can do a lot. If I had one machine to earn a living with it would be a loader. The hystats in these machines are durable but if they do go out it's a lot of cash to get it back running, same with travel motors. The internals are jammed in there and replacing hoses can be an all day job deepening on which one goes out. Clearing is rough on any piece of equipment and being inexperienced will only add to the stress put on the machine, no offense intended just stating a fact. Spend some time looking for a machine and pay a mechanic to go with you when you find one that might pan out. Get the machine hot (to working temp.), especially hystat loaders and work it for a while. Usually a weak hystat or travel motor will show itself when it gets to working temp and under load. Any hydraulic leaks should surface as well. If the seller won't let you run it for an hour or so then pass and keep on looking, they're probably hiding something.:cool2
came here to say this. Stay away from the dozers and trackhoes. you would even be ok with a 953
jaclo; have to ask, what is the aversion to a dozer? Not to start an argument with the old hands on here, but what time I have run a trackloader for landclearing, high reach for pushover leverage is about the only benefit I've seen. They are slow and cumbersome and if he decides to dig and finish grade a pond, good luck with that. I'll take my 6C with 4 way and rippers any day over a trackloader. Also as he said most of his overgrowth is small stuff, won't he end up with a mess of dirt in his piles trying to feather and feel a bucket edge?
Oh man, I'm only 27 don't throw me in with that group of grumps. We have done some fairly extensive land clearing for farming. I would say 99% of these jobs a conventional dozer has not seen any significant time on site. Mostly since the trackhoe can knock the trees down easier IE the leverage on the taller trees and the bucket cat with its teeth sits up higher and you can more easily see what you are doing when it comes to cleaning up. Plus you can go after the bigger trees with the bucket cat because again, leverage. We do trees that range from small brush to cottonwoods 3-5' in diameter. When you take trees out this big you either have to saw them or you have to be able to pick them up with two machines out of the hole, which can be 3'-5' deep on the big ones. Getting them down is the easy part. Need to dig a small ramp so the bucket cat can get underneath the roots to lift the tree up out of the hole, then both machines to drag the tree to the pile. Granted these trees are not super common to be taking out (fortunately) - I'm just commenting on the strength of the trackhoe/bucketcat combo. I honestly don't have any experience with a conventional dozer in the trees simply because of the flexability this combo gives us. Sounds like a cat to me, we workin by the hour or are we racing? ha Yeah for sure and if we were digging a pond we wouldn't use the track loader. But you -could- if you wanted to. What I do know about our 963C is that it is a dirt pushing son of a bitch. I don't enjoy everything about running equipment but one of the more fun things to do is backfilling holes with that machine. Don't get me wrong it isn't a D8 but it has power and you can move dirt that way. There is a refined skill in being able to use the teeth on the bucket to sort the material. I can't explain it it's just a lot of practice and driving back and forth. I'll just put it this way; When a guy tells us he is going to drag his half a million dollar john deere planter through the spot where trees need to be cleared, 963 and 324 all the way. We have had great luck and wouldn't do it any other way. Other guys do things different and that's fine too there's more than one way to skin a cat. :my2c
WR that's why I prefer a track loader cleaning up a clearing project. With the bucket and teeth it allows you to rake, sort and pile the debris. It's much easier to roll the brush, logs and limbs in order to get the dirt out for more efficient burning. My 953C is anything but slow however it is heavy and will find the soft spots. I've graded many building pads, roads and parking lots with that 953. Also finished too many slopes to remember, built several retention ponds and even took down a house or two with it. Trackloaders are regional machines for some reason, here they are very popular so I've been exposed to what they can do my whole life.
Ive wore out dozers clearing land for rice farming. Extensively bulldozed hill ground for pastures dug ponds ect. For only 25 acres it really isn't feasible to buy a dozer to get it cleared. Get a big chain saw and saw the trees low enough to the ground to brushhogg over them. A good heavy 4 wheel assist tractor with a front loader can pile the stuff needing to be burnt. Just saw it into small enough pieces for the tractor to handle. then buy a stump grinder. Bulldozing sloping land lets the top soil and organic material wash away. I own a TD 14 A that's in good cond. and clear I my hill land with a chainsaw. Let it be known your clearing and folks can have the firewood for free. you will have lots of firewood cutters doing part of the job. Why spend over a $1000 per acre on a machine & then have to buy fuel & parts? Im shure you can take bids and get it cleared cheaper than a $1000 per acre.
Sawing and using a stump grinder would take way more time and effort than I have. I don't have the spare time it takes to do that, not to mention I can do it with the right equipment and then sell the equipment when I'm done and recoup most of the money. A $25,000 Dozer today will not be worth much more than the same one with 200 hours more on it when I'm done. Plus I'm looking to purchase the 25 acres next to it, so that will add more work. Plus I might not have explained the terrain well enough. This isn't sparsely wooded land, it is very thick with trees and dense brush. It is so thick and poorly maintained that you can't even get a four wheeler through some parts of it. So I'm definitely going to get a dozer or a track loader as others have suggested.
on the face of it your plan sounds really good. in practice it rarely works out that great. There is this thing called murphys law. However you will learn a lot. It commonly works out someone buys a fifty year old machine. Then replaces all the hoses one at a time. then the engine,trans or final drive goes out. You would be better off to rent a newer machine.
Good advice Old Junk Man . Was clearing out some trails in the woods today and this thread came to mind . If you enjoy operating and want to own track loader or dozer then buy one . That's what I did . Use it on the farm and on job sites . Do all my own wrenching on it when needed . Don't plan on ever selling it .... Nope, gonna keep it for the duration . If you want 25 acres of ground cleared I would look at estimates from local contractors vs. rental rates on a machine and how much time you want to spend on it . This is what rental rates look like in my area on Cat dozers . Oh yeah ...... When clearing bigger is better . I like the D6T . http://whayne.com/rentals/products/dozers/
If you really wanna do it yourself then buy the best condition/low hour machine that you can afford. It should keep most the resale value considering you wont put thousands of hours on it. If you go cheap upfront you'll still pay for it in the end by doing lots of repairs.
That's one way to look at it. The other plan is to buy the cheapest, oldest, still solid machine you can find. If it fails you scrap it and lose less money than the depreciation on something newer. Of course the job still needs to be done Nothing's guaranteed, except most likely this is going to cost more and take longer than expected.
Something else to be wary of is these guys when clearing . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yello...ern_Yellowjacket_Queen_(Vespula_squamosa).jpg Uprooted a pretty good size village of them yesterday when pushing over a tree . Dropped the Fiat Allis in high reverse but after about the 4th sting decelerated put machine in neutral and bailed off . Had to let it set for about an hour before I could go retrieve it . Just something to keep in mind if you are running an open station tractor .
Last year I bought 85 acres of brush and trees. While a D7 sized machine would be about right, I decided on a JD 650 to help with clearing. While it's a bit small for dealing with bigger trees and stumps, it is perfect for grading and smoothing out things after the brush is gone. I think it was the right choice for me. And, I'm a DIY guy. I bought the land to keep me busy when I'm not at work. It might cost me 10 times as much to do this all myself, but I don't care.
I would check on logging the trees before you clear them. Stumps are less fun to dig up, but not horrible with a decent sized machine. I don't know what kind of timber you have, but even if it's not much it would at least buy some diesel fuel. I agree with what one of the others said, do some homework on it and buy as nice a machine as you can stand to pay for. If you take care of it and buy it at the right price, no reason it shouldn't be worth as much when you are done.
i do several hours a week clearing on my property with a JD450C loader. I can take out some really large trees using the advantage of digging around the rootwad and pushing the tree as high as I can reach. I think a crawler loader is a more versatile if you have to choose one machine. I burned some large brush piles yesterday and the ability to roll the piles over several times shaking much of the dirt out helped the piles burn quick and clean. I just wish I had a crawler loader twice the size of my 450.
Would someone mind taking a look at this and giving me your opinion on this dozer? I think it is more than big enough to complete my job. https://fayar.craigslist.org/hvo/5243722413.html I am also interested in this one. https://tulsa.craigslist.org/hvo/5223726964.html Any thoughts/advice on either of these dozers?
I am no expert but looked at several Case loaders and dozers, the dozers of this size have a good reputation, case has the two speed shifting, or speeding up and slowing down a track to turn instead of just stopping a track to turn. I liked that feature. I have been around several old school equipment operators that did not. Price seems a tad high for similar dozers around me. I would bought one but the nearest Case dealer is 140 miles, Cat dealer 3 miles, being able to get parts or mechanic help is a big driver for me. I am not familiar with the D5B but I would assume it is just as good as any Cat dozer of that size. I know I like my D4H. Anything with a Cat label will be premium priced, and it is in the ballpark for the price of the dozers near me but I do not see them moving, many have been on the market for over a year. The both look like they were not abused but it is hard to tell in a picture, really need to go drive each for hour. I am sure folks who actually own one of these can give you some things to look for. As to "more than big enough," IMHO, never have too much, I only have 17 acres and almost bought D8H for about what I paid for my D4H , really liked it, but would not fit in my shop door.
Without looking very close, I would go with the D5B. It definitely doesn't have a 6way blade as advertised, and the pictures don't give any indication of the condition of the undercarriage. My in laws ran a couple of them for years doing lots of clearing and dirt work. They were very good machines.
Hey All - (It is not my intention to hijack the OP's thread. So if this belongs in a new thread, Mods please feel free to move.) This is a great thread. I ran across it when I discovered this forum. Like the OP, I too am also strongly considering buying a piece of equipment to clear about 25 acres. I'm a total noob when it comes to heavy equipment. My experience has been on the farm with a couple of tractors. One difference between me and the OP, is that I'm in central Texas and my property is completely overrun with Huisache (Wee-Satch) trees. They have zero value and are a major nuisance, full of thorns and nasty to clear by hand. The majority of my trees are in the 2 to 6 inch diameter range, but there are a handful that are 10 inches or more. The tallest is about 20 feet. The average is probably 10 to 15 feet. They have to be ripped out by the roots or they re-grow. If you just cut them, you have to spray the cut stump with Remedy to kill the plant. I've cleared about 5 acres with a JD farm tractor and a 3-point Turbo Saw, but man is that slow going. I also have a 3 point tree puller and I can pull most anything that is about 5 inches or less, but again, very slow going. There's been a lot of good suggestions to the OP on this thread. My question is, for you guys who have made a specific recommendation to the OP, would your recommendation stand for the type of work that I need to do, or would you modify your recommendation? Thanks - Christopher
A bad interaction between a dozer and a tree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHIYdgjpCI0
Good reminder on how dangerous this can be CatToy. Here's another tree getting a revenge on a D9! Fast forward to 1:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPA3eosFEGU