Hello, I was referred to this forum from a tractor forum. Maybe you guys can give me direction/advice. I am interested in a skid steer for ranch work. SS will be used for brush clearing, dirt work on creek crossings, post hole digger, root plow, and loading/unloading round bales up to 2500 lbs or so, also a cab is a must for bees.. The property is in south Texas, so everything has thorns. Our place is very sandy...like beach sandy across the majority of the acreage. A SS with tracks is my first thought, but I read/told that OTT tracks might be better for my needs? Any particular brand more monkey proof than another? I have plenty experience on forklifts up to 33k and on tractors/backhoes. None to speak of on the SS. My uncle just bought a new John Deere/tracked and it seems to be a nice machine. Thanks
OTT tracks are a bandaid unless you will also be using the machine without tracks at times. If you have the opportunity and $ to start with a tracked machine - I would. it will do you wonders in your sandy soils and in your water crossings. They're also much more stable than OTT equipped machines. Study the various mfrs and track drive varieties to find the right ins for your operating conditions. Welcome, and good luck.
Since you are new to SSLs and looking at the possibility of a CTL id try to find one with the ISO pattern and get used to it. Then from here on out no matter what brand you settle on you can always have that pattern. Most machines now use EH controls which dont have mych feedback but being new to these machines you may not notice at all. Personally I prefer Cat but they have their ups and downs like any machine and there are a lot of factors that go into a brand choice. Im not an expert on CTLs but I think with your soft surfaces that Cats MTL or a Terex machine may work better than a rigid CTL. I could be wrong though. The downside to CTLs/MTLs is that they are high maintenance, more expensive and generally are slower and rougher riding than SSLs however if you get into any sort of dirt work or brush clearing there is no competition. I dont know much about the tracked machines as we do not use them. I do like Cats serviciability and operator comfort but know a lot of peopl3 have mixed feelings on their undercarraiges. Tak makes a tough CTL ready for work but they seem a little behind the curve on comfort. Same goes for Terex. Good luck.
A question like this comes up from time to time and my answer is always the same. I would lean heavily to the brand that offers the best dealer support. Your machine is no good to you sitting in the shop waiting for parts.
I agree with Steve, number one choice is which brand dealer is close to you and provides good service and parts support. I work on all brand machines daily and this is a big deal to me. Second, as noted by other, if your going to be using the machine predominantly "off road", i.e., pasture fields, off in the woods, creek/riverbanks, bogs, soft spots, etc, a compact track loader is way better suited to that purpose that a wheel skid loader. If you're going to be mostly on firm surface, roads, and pavement, a wheel loader is better. Over the tire tracks expand the utility of a wheel loader, but they have their disadvantages as well. BTW, welcome to HEF. :drinkup
I have both, we work in bottom ground that's flooded most of the year and steel OTT on a 246 will go more places and do more work than ANY of my tracked machines, same goes with any soft mud situation the mud seems to squirt between the steel bars on the OTT whee the MTL machines will pack and you have a giant racing slick Just as far as having one machine if I was NOT going to be in mud everyday I would go with a wheel machine, and grouser 2's I have had solideal rubber OTT systems and have been very disappointed I could go on forever about why but let's not get into that lol, Have you checked out the VTS bolt on tracks? They are the best of both worlds but beware they are hard on drive chains and they will VOID the warranty on a 2speed cat ....... Been there done that lol As far as brands of machines, go cat or go home is my opinion, I am however NOT a fan of the C series with the electro/hydro controls but the awesome cab more than overcomes the drawbacks. I sold my last bobcat finally T190 with ISO and won't go back to another white one however I hear there cabs have really improved ? My toolcat has all but made me dispise the white machines, I traded it off and from what I understand the dealer never could fix it after 3yrs of trying and has finally parted it out. With all of that being said my favorite machine out of the bunch is my little 257B, but it's slowing down a little bit on the drive after 2500 hrs but that's for another thread Sorry for the long post Pj
Thanks for the info everyone , I appreciate it. For dealer support, I have 2 choices with in 25 miles, thats John Deere and Case. Everything thing else would be 60-100 miles. Is there a 'sticky" for abbreviation definitions for example...CTL/MTL, I have no what that that stands for. Thank you,
Welcome to the Forums salt branch!:drinkup CTL - Compact track loader. Traditional style elevated sprocket and rubber track. Bobcat, Cat, Deere, Case all use this system. MTL - Multi-terrain Loader. The rubber bogie style undercarriage originally on ASV's. Cat and Terex use this undercarriage. Cat is the only manufacturer to my knowledge that has both CTL and MTL lines. http://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/compact-track-and-multi-terrain-loaders.html As far as brands go, ditto what the others have said about parts and service for the same reasons. I think you narrowed down your choices to Deere or Case. I have not owned nor ran either of their machines so I can't give model/brand specific advice on them.
I agree that steel OTT (over the tire tracks) on SSL (skid steer loader) will go anywhere, even places a CTL (compact track loader) will not. But the steel tracks will really tear up the ground. If that's not an issue, go for it. McLaren makes great (but $$) OTT steel tracks, with or without removeable rubber pads if desired. I have wet, sensitive ground, & I went with Camoplast (Solideal) rubber OTT on a NH L220 SSL. I leave them on all the time. They work pretty well in the wet & in snow. In real sticky mud, the track pattern will fill with mud, until you have "slicks", then you have to back bucket your way out, or get pulled. In that one situation, the steel OTT would be better. New Holland & Case SSLs are essentially the same...they are made in the same factory in Witchitaw, KS. The only problem with OTTs is clearance. You will probably have to downsize the tires one size (12x16.5 ==>>10x16.5) to get enough clearance with the rear body to fit the OTTs. Plus at least 2" wheel spacers to get the required clearance between the inside tire walls & the body. The tire downsizing was the only negative that I had to endure with my NH. You can see pics of my SSL at I think the only better solution for wet ground might be a suspended track system like on the Cat MTL (multi-terrain loader) or the ASV/Terex machines. I considered those, but the ASV/Terex is way behind in cab comfort & has poor dealers in my area, while I just didn't like the Cat B series cab. The C series is better, & the newest D series has the best cab yet, but not without a few minor issues. But both the ASV & Cat machines were much more expensive.
I would demo both of the machines and see which ones you like. I personally do not have enough experience with newer Deeres and really only know a few people with them who already own all Deere tractors and everything. One of them is a dairy and their 320D had been a let down due to overheating. Another dairy farmer I know priced a new Deere and it was 15k higher than a comparable 262C2. A local roadbuilder traded 5 of their Deere wheeled D series due to breakdowns. On the CNH side. I know a lot of people loved the previous series Case machines. Personally I didnt like our l200 NH which is the same as the newer Case alpha series, and while they havent been received well in my area by many, there are plenty of people who are happy with them. Personally I would probably lean towards the Deere becayse I like how much easier they appear to work on. More like the older NHs. They also retain the NH style boom which gives good visibility however the CNH cab is quieter. As faf as performance I cant compare as I havent ran a Deere. Obviously my opinion is slightly biased because I only hear about the machines that get traded in. I would Demo both and price both. Are your dealers construction or Ag dealers?. If they are Ag dealers that move a couple machines per year you may want to entertain the brands that are further away as well. KSSS is the local Case guru.
Awesome info, thank you everyone! Sounds like the OTT would be the better way to go. Tearing up the ground is not an issue for me, its all pasture work. What are some mfg. beside McLaren I can research and learn about the OTT available? Does the tire tread affect the OTT performance. Can solid tires be used?
I'll chime in with a different opinion on OTT vs CTL. I have to disagree that an OTT equipped wheel machine will go places a CTL will not. Having owned both types of machines (I ran OTT's before CTL's were mainstream), putting many hours on both and there is no advantage of an OTT machine over a CTL as far as being able to go more places than a CTL. A CTL will stick better to a slope than an OTT, due to the increase in track area to the ground. This also helps in soft underfoot conditions. An OTT machine will have a tendency to pack mud between the tires and tracks where a CTL will float better over it. You can still get both machines stuck and sometimes being able to go into more places is just an invitation to get really stuck.:cool2 The biggest PIA with OTT machines is getting a flat, been there too many times. Break the tracks down, fix flat and re-install tracks. This problem can be eliminated by running foam or gel filled tires but that is another cost to factor in. I did not run foam filled tires on my OTT machines as I felt it put too much strain on the drive train - no cushion for the shock loads. I did however run gel at the time and it worked well although we would still get flats. I am sure there have been improvements in the quality of tire sealants as this was 10 years ago. Personally I would not go back to an OTT machine, I'll stick with my CTL's.
Whats the average cost for the Mclaren OTT? I also saw they sold flat proof tires. I have been searching the web and finding used price but no new pricing. One more question, working in the brush. Is there any concern that the brush can knock the tracks off or tear something up that way on either tracked setup?? This stuff will get in every crack and crevice, get wedge up etc or atleast it does on my tractor
Keep in mind saltbranch that the closest dealer is not necessarily the best. Ask for a tour of their shop and parts room to see how well equipped they are and I'd even see if I could find some of their customers to talk to. I believe Deere has overnight parts delivery, not so sure about Case. In some cases it might pay to travel a little further for better service.
I bought a set of McLaren air-cushion solid tires for an 863 7-8 years ago and they were $2800 per set, delivered. I can buy a set of CTL tracks for $2400 so it gives you an idea of cost comparison. I ran Grouser metal OTT's, still have two used sets sitting at the shop.
x2. On the topic of OTT tracks and solid tires, by the time you wrap that much money up into it and create that stiff of a ride you could go with a CTL.
If you want to put solid or gel filled tires, or any special tires, inside your OTT's, then yes, I agree you may as well go with a CTL. You are going to have almost as much invested in those special tires & good OTTs as the upgrade in $ for a CTL. Also, if you put solid tires on with OTTs, it will ride hard like a conventional CTL anyway. If you're working in brush with OTT's, then I think you have to use a closed track, either solid rubber & steel cords like the Camoplast, or a steel track with closed steel pads between the bars. In both cases, the closed design helps prevent sticks from getting thru the tracks & poking holes in the tires. The closed design also helps with lower ground pressure/better floatation, but you do lose the extreme traction of the open steel style. But you still have the potential problem of sticks going thru the sidewalls. Most OTT designs have large 'ears' that wrap down over the sidewalls...they help but don't eliminate the problem. But I the rubber tracks on CTLs are not indestructible. I would think that heavy brush could/would rip them. The only real solution is steel tracks over steel wheels...thing steel tracked loader or bulldozer!! The one case I've run into where my OTTs are better than a CTL is the much larger diameter of the front tire/OTT as compared to the front idler on a CTL. That larger front wheel diameter allows me to crawl up on larger objects (logs, rocks). My tire/OTT front diameter is about 34" as compared to about half of that for a typical CTL. If you could run 12x16.5 tires in the OTT's, it would be slightly more.
I use both, OTT and I have a CTL. The CTL is simply easier. You can roll over improved surfaces without issue. I use McLaren tires when I put the OTT on. Flats do suck so I use the Mclarens with the tracks. You get a little more flexability with OTT as you can take them off and run tires. As to which OEM, that would be easy. I have been running CASE since the mid90's and I like them (I have had about 18 of them). However demo both the Deere and the CASE and see what you think, Its your money.
Thanks out to all that posted info and advice. Very cool forum here, as I get further into this I may ask a few more questions. I do appreciate the help.
Just my experiences , and mostly from a mechanics perspective, but I prefer cat or takeuchi ssl. They both just seem to be a little easier to access parts on.
If cost is a concern you might consider what I did and buy a good used 80+ horsepower SS with 14x17.5 regular tires with steel ott. Foam filled tires are frowned on by manufacturers as they put too much stress on the bearings/axels. Rubber ott do not allow the tires to slip a little in the tracks causing drive chain wear/breakage. The larger heavier machine with large tires and steel tracs have great flotation/traction/stability in a relatively low cost unit with the flexibility to run with tires only if needed. I have never run a CTL.
No VTS unless they have made severe up grades in the last few years. We had VTS and it was 50% of our calls at times. Machines could not make 250 hours with out needing some attention. CTL would probably be your best bet it sandy conditions.