I didn't see any threads started yet on this major issue...maybe out of fear of the subject, or something. I'm wondering what people's perspectives are on this new health care package that was shoved down our throats, and how people will react, respond, etc...?
Evidently this isn't a very cherished subject....:umno
Lowboy, I can't help you out on the subject yet, I've been asking and nobody in my area can tell me anything of value or reality yet, nobody knows, my governor has asked for an extension for the whole state as of yet he hasn't been granted one, none of the local agents know anything, none can tell me if my old policy has gone by the wayside like most keep telling me it has or will happen, nobody can tell me how much more I'll have to spend to get less coverage. I'm told I now need maternity, I wasn't feeling pregnant, or the desire to become pregnant but my agent told me I'll probably need it, maybe he knows something I don't so I asked my wife about it and she assured me she's not ever going to have any more kids, she told me nature is helping her out with that issue in case she forgot in a weak moment what it was all about. So for today all I can tell you about or complain about is the fact I don't know and nobody can tell me in my area, stick to one story and seem to manage to get it in writing. Now I've read the rules of the forum here but since this is "now" law, I guess its nothing political, so we can bitch, complain, stew and hash this topic over and its creation and since it affects us all, as long as its actual experience of what we have gone through, its fair game, isn't that right moderators?? If nothing else that should at least get you one more response to this thread lowbody. But seriously I'd like to hear others experience on this subject, since its "free" and all now, how much more or less its costing them and how much more or less coverage they now have. The only factual thing I have report is nobody knows for sure, I guess its a secret and I'll be told to when I "need" to know, which usually comes when someone needs money, but since its supposed to be "free", maybe I never will know, what do you guys think?
The last I heard so far 0.00001% of Alaskans have signed up for it. That's 7 people out of about 732,000. I expect it will not be increasing quickly until it is truly forced onto people.
Well, no, not really. One of the definitions of political (the one that most closely fits the intent of the rule here), is " of, pertaining to, or involving the state or its government ." Just because it's "now" law doesn't make it non-political, any more than something like current abortion law would be non-political, or non-religious. And if it affects us all (which I interpreted to mean housewives, and barbers, and used car salesmen, and the greeter at Walmart, not just those in our profession), then by definition it's not "directly related" to our industry. Not picking on you, Lowboy, but just pointing out why we have that rule. That's the sort of rhetoric that is so characteristic of political discussions. To open the discussion with words such as those effectively notifies everybody that to echo your opinion is wonderful, but to express an opposing point of view is already an argument. And it goes downhill from there. Or, it just becomes a bitchfest where no opposing point of view would dare be posted, and that doesn't really accomplish anything productive either, does it?
In 1913 we as a corporate country started signing up folks that were making a decent money. Income tax. In 1934 we as a corporate country started signing up folks that were in a desperate need to to take care of a older population outside of the established ways of family and church. Social Security. In 2013 we as a corporate country started signing up folks that were told that they had to have something to take care of them when they got sick. Free Heath care. You see where this is going. There are groups that have never submitted . Can you guess who they are?
Maybe you should consider a new area in this chat " Politics' as You see it! " You say it would become a "Bitchfest"..... well personally i'm way past bitchin about it and am ready for some action. I don't like the direction were heading, would like to discuss it and maybe change some people's mind. But I guess it won't happen here...... or anyplace for that matter. With all due respect.... Gramps
We have to address a lot of things forced upon us .... so we add this to the list. Some of these things are more costly than others. No mention of these things to help keep thread topic. As to health care, so far it appears prices have gone up. More to follow.
There is a method to our madness though, Gramps. It goes like this--If Member A and Member B tangle often enough and heatedly enough in political discussions, bad feelings are likely to carry through into the discussion of the merits of whether slot dozing is best done starting near the pile, or away from the pile. The internet has plenty of places to argue politics. We don't need to be one of them.
I would like to be on record here along with Digger. Yes, we do have rules concerning topics that relate to politics, and we make every effort to be fair and consistent in enforcing those rules. As for this topic, politics is interwoven into it. However, that does not mean that this topic can't be discussed if the political aspects of it are kept out of it by the members. At the point the political nature of this topic becomes obvious, we will be forced to close this topic. We don't know how members will carry on with this conversation, therefore are willing to entertain the discussion to see how it plays out, but keep in mind "no political discussions".
This stuff was passed into law a long time ago. It should not be a surprise to anyone. I'll summarize what I know of what affects me. Basically health insurance and insurance in general has always been a state controlled business. The new federal law has made health insurance a federally controlled requirement. The feds have decided what the minimum coverages will be. The insurance companies get to decide the costs of those coverages. Under the state control of insurance there were many different policies that broke up the types of risks or "perils" they would cover. Things like maternity and well baby care didn't need to be paid for when that "peril" was no longer present. Under the federal law that "peril" is never gone. Other things that are controversial is the point at which insurance will start paying. I used to only have coverage for major medical and I would cover all basic "perils". Doctor visits, cuts and stuff that didn't involve a hospital, I paid for. That policy is no longer available because the feds have now named the perils that have to be covered. The issue is federal law now and the only thing we can do is made our representatives uncomfortable and unhappy with their support of the law. Getting a few of the right people unelected would help. From my view the only thing available to us common folks is to hope for modification and refinement of the law in the future. As far as the confusion goes, the states are supposed to set up the exchanges where the new policies were to be purchased. Many states said they would not do that and the feds put together their own exchanges with a web page as the application point. The fact that the web page failed was no surprise. From what I see that doesn't change the fact that you have to have coverage by January 4, 2014. You are supposed to be able to get coverage through your own agent or broker. Now if your own people don't know what is required or won't tell you anything, you need to get new people.
I agree some time has passed since it has has been voted into law. But its a surprise to many whats in it... ("You have to pass it to know what's in it). That was a statement made by an elected official... well that's about the damnest thing I've heard of. Nobody in their right minds do things that way.. I agree with you whole heartedly that we have to "unelect" some,,, (almost all of them in opinion). What upset's me to the core is they mandate one law to the subject's. (that'd be us dumbass's) and allow their staff a totally different system.... well I don't care if your Democrat or Republican... the f'n sucks and wrong. I think I skirted the moderators so far... but if the Mod's drop the ban hammer on my head, my feelings won't change, and I'll become a spammer. I'd try being a hacker but I can"t even get pictures on here....Lmao .:stirthepot
:falldownlaugh​ OCR... lol
Quick summary of my point of view in HEF terms: If the left final went out on your D6N, there is no need to overhaul the rest of the machine! That can't be construed as political can it!
The left final drive needs to be toned down and off Your D6...I think your onto something Oxbow!!! :thumbsup
Religious groups? I'm curious which groups you had in mind here?
See lowboy, you just need to add some fuel to the discussion to get a reaction of what people really think.
I feel like I broke the rules. I would like to ask that the group forgive me and I will not continue these topic.i find that this forum is much to valuable.
Relax markshr151. We did see the post and discussed it, but your comment left a lot to interpretation. We decided to see if the comment remained innocuous to the topic in general. And although Delmer has posed a question to expound on the comments, it has not become a problem. The only thing we, as mods, are asking is to keep within the subject matter of the topic minus politics. It it incumbent upon us to enforce forum rules with consistency and equity. It is our hope that members assist us in doing this.
Folks, I'm the first one to say that I'm VERY opinionated when it comes to our Country's politics, but as the Moderators have already stated HEF is not the place to vent those feelings. I created HEF to discuss issues pertaining to heavy equipment and this section deals with the business end of that. This topic here could legitimately be discussed as a business concern, BUT it has the potential of becoming a political discussion as already has been witnessed. The discussion of politics here at HEF will have little if any impact on making any change to policies in government yet could have a very detrimental effect on our forums. We will allow the thread to continue as long as it remains a business discussion but if politics enter any further it will be shut down. The Moderators have my full support in using their judgement. As has been mentioned, there are NUMEROUS places to discuss politics on the web. I personally have joined several grassroots groups locally and am doing what I can to make the changes I feel are important, I'd suggest that if you take your feelings to heart that you do the same. You will be much more effective taking that route than blowing off steam here and perhaps alienating other members. I've witnessed other forums deteriorate to the point of being ineffective due to political discussions. Thanks for your cooperation!
Great post at the thread Steve, thanks for setting it straight for the vision of HEF. :notworthy
I saw this coming a couple miles away.....:nono My sole intention upon asking this question from the very first word I typed was to find out if anyone had a vision or information regarding whether or not they "understood" the new system,and how it would directly affect a small business, period. Bottom line: pay the fine every month, or the mortgage-style health care premiums...that was my main concern. I am going solo in a few months in a new venture, and simply wanted to see what the majority of small businessmen had to say and how they would address the new health care laws, that's all. Didn't mean to wake the sleeping giant, nor get into politics. This subject affects ALL OF US in the wallets, in some manner. I guess my question was definitely answered, in that nobody knows or really wants to. That's fine with me, and thanks for the replies. I will direct my thoughts in another forum on this subject from here on in, to eliminate any further alarms to go off. Good job moderators, without you...this would be an alligator nest.
So...... do you start near the pile or away from it in your slot dozing?:falldownlaugh
To expand on lowboys comment somewhat, excavation insurance is my biggest expense to me running my business on a per month basis, fixed cost to contend with weather I move a machine or not, health insurance is second on that list of expenses, and anything that costs me money affects my bottom line and is figured into the cost of operation somewhere, same as everyone else who's running their own business. I'd like to know since this topic hasn't been discussed really at all that I know of, what's your monthly premiums done, gone up, down or stayed the same. Around me, seeing how I live in the middle of nowhere really, I get answers all the time, and the next time I ask, I get a different set of answers, those informing my people keep being told something different every time they ask above them, not a surprise at all really, anyone can blame it on whatever they want to, it boils down to those making decisions don't have a clue as to what they are doing is what I get out of the media, true or not, someone can inform me differently. I also have a family member who works in accounting for a major hospital group, in corporate level and she claims they don't know from day to day what's going on, and the last I asked she's in charge of I think 12 hospitals in the chain and she deals with billing medicare and the government entities among many other insurance companies, as she tells me, the rules change daily as the days go along, shes about to quit her job, all she gets is a sophisticated run around, her advice to me was wait it out, till its in writing don't worry about your told, it'll change upteen many times before its in writing its not funny. I asked the local clinic I deal with and they just laughed at me saying, don't get excited, we'll shoot you, stick you, stab you and hold your urine cup and test you for anything, we'll deal with the rest as we are told we should, we basically don't know any more than you, unless you want to official version we're told to tell everyone, which amounts to your in good hands and we have all the answers...............today, tomorrow might be somewhat different but then that's the official version,,,,,,,,,,,just updated. All I can say lowboy is today, nobody under my policy is sick, injured, hospitalized or being treated for basically anything, so to me its just premiums cost, I don't have a paperwork nightmare to deal with if my policy would change, coverage would change or anything else, I"m sitting on this subject waiting to be informed if my policy changes, premiums change or what happens, I asked all my customers over the last few months and that's their plan too, wait and see, do nothing till they are informed in writing something needs to change or be done differently. To answer your other portion of your question, do you understand it, the answer would have to be "no" and since I've had major health issues in the past, with those under my policy, I hate insurance with a passion, always have, I'm also pretty sure there''s a hospital wing somewhere I paid for too, but its something I have to have to reduce liability issues and to be able to stay in business, no different than equipment and vehicle insurance, which the state and jobs I do require anyhow. My plan is to wait till the smoke clears, all the different version have changed a dozen times, everyone's interpretation has been hashed over and someone knows for sure what the rules are and how they affect me, or I'm cancelled and then forced to make a change and deal with issues of misinterpretation that come along with them, if anyone has any better idea's please by all means go ahead and tell us all about them, I've heard so many already, a few more in the mix wouldn't hurt me a bit. So while the moderators line up the gun sights on me or this topic, before pulling the trigger, I for one would like to hear how others have been dealing with this issue, or what they've been told, I also feel its a very big part of HEF and heavy equipment, without it, I'm not sure, but I'd guess most wouldn't be here to discuss anything, they'd be punching a clock at a factory job or somewhere else doing something else.
Another scenario to consider, in "street terms", even though I'm a back-woods type hillbilly and proud of it. Suppose I am in my truck with a dash-mounted camera (as some are now familiar with, used solely for the purpose of ""SAFETY", {cough, cough, cough...**) I am being watched by the corporate office. I stop at a street corner and proceed to ask a female (let's just say, in non-formal attire,) for directions to the place I'm delivering to. Again, being a hillbilly, I'm just being polite and asking the young lady directions. Does that make her a "commercial businesswoman", as well as me a "solicitor"??? In some instances, that may have been taken out of context..... That's almost how it felt when I asked the very first opening question. No offense taken, but again, I never intended to inject a single ounce of politics into that post, as I have been a member here since 2006, I've contributed and drawn information as well from this site. I simply was asking my other fellow workmen and business owners and operators what their thoughts might be on cost increases, if any...that's all. I don't know...maybe some prune juice would help.
Lol... LowBoy, that post was a bit of an inside joke between me and grandpa, concerning computers... I'm not sure about prune juice coverage cost increases... :lmao OCR...
Lmao... you don't wake up too often anymore but your still rather funny for an old phart.
Lol... OCR...
This is what I have to deal with so far. The wife and I have a family/married policy with BCBS. 2014 insurance bill is going to run me an additional $5K a year when figuring in increased premiums and copays for basically the same coverage. I operate a small company under the employee threshold, so the employer mandate side doesn't apply. However, I have to make an additional $5K a year to maintain the status quo.
Lowboy, I'll go out a limb here, and say I doubt your health care costs are going down any time soon, I tend to look at anything regulated with more regulations and having more requirements one must meet and from past experience on many other entities I've never seen anything go down in costs, now mind you, I'm of little faith in any system, especially those I have little to no direct say in. Now how much your or my "total" health care costs go up is anyone's guess, but I'm figuring in a 50 percent increase in total costs. I know what and why your asking lowboy, your on the right track, but I can't tell you much of what "your" costs might be, I don't know how many you have to insure, what kind of insurance you have now or plan to have later on if you go out on your own, how much you dish out of your pocket each year now, or what to expect when your paying all your own insurance, I'm also guessing your covered under someone else's insurance policy now, either an employer or some other form somewhere, and not paying everything out of your own pocket so to speak, meaning premiums and also any deductibles or co pay that's required, I also don't know your past health history or family size or ages. Years back now when I had great insurance paying on my own and no kids I was paying about 400 a month for my wife and I, then the kids came along, some health problems a lot of claims from various reasons and I was hiked to about 1500 a month premium only and they raised my deductible and co pay amounts, after that I jumped around with insurance companies and we'd average about that 7-800 a month premium only plus deductibles and co pay and then out of pocket on top of that depending on what was wrong or what happened during the year, but I always figured right at that 20k a year total cost to give you a starting point with the kids on my policy as they grew up, sometimes higher and sometimes lower. If your needing more or something different let me know, I'll do my best to lend a hand. As for the moderators, we haven't heard much of value out of them yet on this topic, only warnings of what happens with bad behavior, maybe they should set an example and state something your asking for?? I really didn't think I would be the first to help you out on this topic but what the hey, we do what we can with what we have right guys?? Or is that too politically motivated??
Thanks CM for helping to answer a question, you must have been typing while I was.
Just to clarify, we (mods) don't have our gun sights on anyone here. All we were saying at the beginning of this thread was to carry on the discussion but do no inject or discuss the politics of the topic as politics is deeply embedded in the whole issue. There's plenty about the law and coming changes that merit and need discussion, but if we allowed the politics of it to come out, as LowBoy stated, it would become an alligators nest.
Lowboy, I'll take you at your word that you didn't intend to inject politics into the discussion, but compare the following two lines You can't listen to a day of talk radio (and you know they make their living pandering to the passions of political junkies), without hearing some discussion of this plan, which is why I made, with complete confidence, the following comment about your use of the phrase " that was shoved down our throats ." I didn't close the thread, instead counting on you guys to stick to the rules once reminded of them. I apologize if I read more into your words than you meant, but I'll stand by my judgment to point out what looked political to my eyes, and post that reminder. I hope you can understand my point of view.
I have to say "YES" digger242j, you read into my words a bit too much indeed. I certainly do understand and respect all mod's point of views and their duties...but when I use a phrase such as "shoved down our throats"...I clearly see a misinterpretation on your part for pre-judging my intentions. I've had salesmen try to shove things down my throat, as well as colleagues doing the same thing on some other level. This is a classic case of being too darned judgemental, and over exaggerates the subject way beyond the initial reason, which was to see what others are thinking about this very, very important and critical topic that is affecting each one of us, along with our next generations. Look, I joined this site years ago because it looked like a place to come to draw from as well as contribute to. As you can see by my various posts in various threads on all topics, I use humor as the platform to share my thoughts with more than anything else here. I enjoy having a laugh (even at my expense now and then,) and once in a while I ask advice on something I think would warrant asking it for. But when things skate along the "taboo" of politics or religion, I always pull away and never involve myself in anything of that nature. Go back through my 900+/- posts and see for yourself. I've joined and deleted/left several different forums over the years due to misinterpretations and plain ignorance of my subject matter before, due to the wrong people making the wrong decisions in positions of authority. I can certainly make it a point to do the same here, if you feel like anything I said was a threat to your T.O.U., but I would hazard to say that there's quite a few guys around that didn't take what I said out of context and agree that I stated clearly I was looking for opinions on health care costs, not what the president has done or what Jesse Jackson is about to do.... I'll stop right here...Usually I walk away and find something to do that makes more sense than this by now, but I'm not one to just sit and take a whipping from anybody, sorry friends....
Lowboy, It's going to be a wait and see thing. I don't think anyone really knows what the new premiums are going to run. I really don't think they will go down if keeping the same levels of coverage with the same deductibles because you have the additional forced coverage's like maternity, birth control and the children under 26. It wont matter if you are too old to have children or if your youngest (like mine) are over 26. Because it's now law that you carry that coverage you are going to have to pay for it, as an individual or as an employer. The math is pretty simple. Insurance is based on a number of people pooling money together in a fund to help each other out when there is need (prior to this law the average profit on medical insurance was about 6%). That cost X amount per a specified period of time. Monthly, quarterly, bi-annually or annually. Now add in that those who can afford insurance are going to be helping buy insurance for those who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to buy insurance. So add in Y. Yesterdays coverage could be tailored to fit needs but the new laws mandate certain coverage's that may not be needed. So add in Z. What the final tally will be has yet to be determined. Rick
Hey, I started off by saying I wasn't picking on you, left the thread open so you could have the discussion you were asking for, have made several posts explaining my reasoning, and said "I apologize if I read more into your words than you meant". If that constitutes you taking a whipping.... :beatsme If you'd like to discuss this any further, let's you and I do it via PM.
Obama Care came up today on the radio when they do the couple mins of news. So far 400 Alaskans have signed up for it. They were planning on around 4000 a month. Figure a population of about 732,000....
Well its nice to see we're arguing about political correctness, now can we move forward and actually discuss insurance guys?? I'd like to actually learn something other than watch grown ups bicker over nothing, so is its not too much to ask to have some on here explain what they have for insurance and how much it costs and how its either already changed or about to change in coverage and cost or do we need to know what each states sign up rates are going to be or or have been according to some bullsh@t radio talk show said last night about who's ahead in the polls over nothing. I'm pretty sure we get the jest of the thread, its about health insurance and its costs, and what are they going to do and what have they been in the past. Does anyone know about the "above and beyond" charges, do they still exist or have they gone by the way side? Is every states insurance identical now or do we still have choices, John was right before each state was different, now they're supposed to be the same, for me that's not a good thing, before I had options and that means now I don't, is this true, I've been told each way from several entities now, my family inside the hospital system and insurance sales people, who's right? If John is correct about it going from a state based system to a federal based system, much like some of the dot requirements have done recently and I'm supposed to get new and smarter people, whom might those be to call, an agent 500 miles away that hasn't a clue as to what we have had to deal with in the past in my area or the companies themselves, whom tend to bend the explanation just enough to get you to buy from them and find out later they omitted to tell you a few things of importance or the state who says on the other end of the phone, weeeelllllll, we'll loooooooooooookkkkkkkkk into the that and get back to you and give you an answer that wasn't even for the question you asked and forgot what your question was in the first place? Have the insurance companies gone away from the wording on things like "urgent care" verse emergency room visits, and also are medical clinics considered part of the phrase for coverage as hospitals, seeing how up till the bill passed even the medical insurance sales people couldn't explain it right and didn't have a clue how it worked or was worded for billing, can't imagine they've gotten any smarter since the bill was passed. Next question is, has anyone had experience in crossing state lines and finding out coverage amounts changed for them in the same policy, is that how it still works or now that its a federal law, do states have to abide by the new federal written laws, anyhow have a clue or just "in theory" ideals? Anyone know for a fact if the wording in the new bill explains the 26 year old exemptions to the law, are they the same as before or have they changed, before I had to hire an attorney to tell me the truth, neither the insurance company or hospitals, nor state could or would tell me the truth on how it worked, even the lawyer didn't know and spent weeks to find out for me, so does anyone know other than in theory who's responsible and liable under the new bill seeing how its federal now verses state based? So to sum it up how in depth do you want to discuss health insurance Lowboy, because after this we can really get into some in depth discussion on the topic of health insurance, like co pays, deductibles, what's covered and what's not, state lines and how they affected rates and coverage before, hospitals systems and what insurance they took at full value and what they took at reduced value, how about who's responsible for what in state verses out of state if insurance is declined and how state laws come into the mix, where the insurance company had voids in coverage and if the first how many dollars go towards the deductible or not{in state verses out of state**, or what does go towards the deductible exactly, how emergency room visits during hours affect prices after hours, are urgent care prices covered anywhere and if not are the dollars spent put towards the deductible's, and from then on it gets kinda fuzzy and are grey area's for some and many get lost.
I'm not going to read your chapter book, but there is no need to be rude to me about my comment. It was just something I caught on the radio when I was walking through the garage last night while going out to feed my ducks and chickens. (I leave the radio on). Just a tid bit of info that kinda made a person think. Wasn't talk radio, was on 100.9, oldies country. As far as cost, if it's good or not, etc... no idea. I've never had to directly pay for health care. Joined the military after high school, did about 12 years, got injured and became a disabled veteran.
Thanks for your service ValleyFirewood! I believe that it is fair to say that adding 30 million people who did not previously have health insurance, and layer upon layer of increased government involvement, prices are likely to go up as CM pointed out with his policy. How this increased burden of cost and time affects our businesses is probably the point that can be discussed here. Whether or not we collectively (via our elected officials) have made the right choice in getting to where we now are should probably not be discussed here, and thanks to Digger, Willie, and Steve for cautioning us about crossing that line. I imagine that you folks are watching this thread very closely, and I for one appreciate that you are allowing us a bit of lattitude in the hope that constructive information can be shared without entering into personal attacks. My first thought is that from a business perspective, good or bad, this law will affect us all the same and thus we all will have to adjust our rates accordingly. Unfortunately, it does not affect us all the same. In CM's case, he is seing the increase in cost immediately and directly. In other scenarios folks who are in our business may have a spouse working outside the business who obtains health insurance, which will likely go up as well but the spouses employer may be contributing so the direct and immediate impact is somewhat mitigated. Then there are the larger companies (50 or more employees) who are under mandate of the law, but not until November of 2014 as I understand it will the mandate take affect. So, in each of our own scenarios this law will affect us differently, and we must figure out how to incorporate the changes in cost and time commitment into our overhead, and then adjust our rates for the services we provide accordingly. The difficlut part of this for many of us is that we do not know what these changes will entail as of yet. I have absolutely no answers to any of this. I wonder if we, as an industry, should incorporate a healthcare surcharge into our billing practices so that it can be modified as our costs change? This probably would not go over well with some customers though as it may be viewed as political comment rather than strictly cost mitigation. Well, I have pretty much gone full circle with my diatribe here and have not answered anything, maybe a career in politics is in my future! Merry Christmas everybody, and a toast to all of you!
Well, somebody mentioned the effect on ins. through big business. My wife works for Wal-Mart, which I guess qualifies as big. Health ins. through them has gone up about 50%, deductibles are much higher for everyone, and the choices have gone from 6 or 8 plans to 3. Oxbow, I'll vote for you because you haven't run before, and because you aren't a lawyer; but, if you win, I'll stop liking you.
No fear of that happening Mitch, I'd be too busy trying to figure out how a tele-prompter works to be able to give a speech!
I'm not sure how this thread got so far off track but there's too much bickering over nothing going on here for my taste. I don't want bad feelings generated over what appears to me to be misunderstandings so I'm closing this thread at least temporarily for a cooling off period. This could be an informative discussion if some of you would focus on the topic rather than throwing jabs. It really doesn't seem like it's asking too much.