I have a 2006 new Holland D85 with a Cummins motor. I checked the stick and the oil is over an inch higher than the normal level. I had this same issue with my dump truck and it turned out to be my injection pump needed rebuilt. Does anyone have a clue why I might be getting extra fluid into the engine? My thoughts are to sample the oil first. My coolant level has stayed consistent ing the rad. If it is the injector pump, anyone know if the pump is needs timed with the crank? Thx guys
Oil test is a good idea. Could be bad injectors.
How do I check if it is my injectors? Any test I can perform? I know the pump rebuild will be big money.
Gonna need P#'s or a picture of the injection pump.. may or may not be the injection pump.. What about a lift pump?? What about hydro oil?? Better get a sample tested.. in the meantime, get some #'s or a picture.
Does the engine miss or skip at idle? any smoke?
If there is fuel in it you should be able to smell it. An extra inch must be more than a gallon. The oil must feel different between your fingers. Is there a chance someone over filled it. We had a 320 cat if you pulled the dip stick it would read low, but if you put the DS back in and checked it again it would be fine. The float man would always dump oil into it every time he trucked it, so it was always over the mark until the situation was explained to him.
I'm going to get part numbers on the pump. I'll take some pix too.
No the engine doesn't skip or smoke once it starts. Runs good. It is a pain to start. Usually have to cycle the start a couple times and it will blow black smoke out stack, then fire up. Once running, no smoke at all.
I'm going to sample it for sure. I changed pull myself, and I have the shop manual, so I can't believe I messed up that much. How would the hydraulic oil get into the engine oil? Are they not 2 separate systems?
I don't know about that system asfar as the hydro oil is concerned.. just throwing it out there.. I've seen it happen on MORE THAN 1 occasion on Ford tractors. Better get a sample to be sure.
View attachment 166356 View attachment 166356
Looks to me like the pump must be tdc on number one piston if removed? Thoughts. Pix are out of my parts book. Thx guys
I'm sending oil sample out today, does anyone on here have experience reading these reports?
If it's fuel it should be obvious, the test will either say fuel present, or give a percentage. You should be able to smell it too. I don't know how you'd tell it's hydraulic oil until the hydro oil goes down and the engine oil goes up. The good news is that the hydro oil won't contaminate the engine oil, and won't dilute it nearly as much as diesel. Is there any hydro pump on the engine timing gear train? that's where the hydro oil would get into the engine oil.
Did you mean to say, you CHANGED the PUMP yourself?? Its new/ rebuilt and NOW its getting fuel in the oil? The pump NEEDS to be timed.. Theres a plastic plunger under the pump and a lock pin on the pump..[10mm] Theres a place by the flywheel to insert a tool & rotate the engine by hand IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION OF ROTATION until the pin under the pump drops in.. Then you loosen the locking bolt on the pump & remove the spacer plate.. tie it to the throttle.. then tighten the locking bolt down tight to the pump driveshaft.. Unscrew the front cover infront of the pump & remove the nut & washer.. put the nut back on flush w/ the end of driveshaft.. You need a puller for the gear.. screw the puller in the gear and pop the gear off.. DONE.
No I'm sorry, I changed the oil myself. I've never touched the injection pump. I brought up changing oil because I can't believe I would have over filled.
Well, how many times did you check the oil since that oil change? It's pretty easy to overfill if the oil is cold and takes a while to run down to the pan, or it was sitting at a different angle when you filled it.
To me, an inch high on the dipstick would be at least a gallon. A gallon of fuel in the oil would really dilute it. It would be really thin, and you would clearly be able to smell it. If it is not like that I would drain a bit out, and keep an eye on the level to see if it keeps raising. As far as over filling goes, everyone makes mistakes.
I think you guys are all right. I didn't smell anything what so ever. I have a dozen pieces of equipment, so I'm not unfamiliar with diesel engines. I like to do all pms in house. My operators are told to check fluids every morning. This particular dozer has been inactive for most of the last year. Only 100 hours since I changed the oil and filter on 11/21/15. The oil sample is in mail. I spun the oil filter off and strained it thru a white rag. It was black of course, but no flake or water. Doesn't smell like fuel. Doesn't feel particularly thin. Hope you guys are right, cause the injector pump R&R might be a bit above my paygrade!
If it sat that long, ideally I'd loosen the oil drain plug and make sure there's no water in the bottom of the pan from getting into the exhaust and into a cylinder. But you already started it so it would have boiled the water out by now if you ran it enough. If there's still water, then you'll see steam from the breather, or foam or condensation on the top of the dipstick.
When I ran the machine to pull the sample, I also pulled the oil filter to check for any signs of contamination. I strained it and didn't see anything whatsoever. The machine was actually kept under a large roof I built to cover the equipment, so wasn't exposed to the elements like it would outside.
Here is the oil sample results. What do you guys think?
"CHECK FOR POSSIBLE FLUIDS TRANSFER" and the yellow box indicate a warning. W A F are water, antifreeze, and fuel. All negative. PFC percent fuel content at .65% is apparently negative? that's obviously not enough to raise the level on the dipstick. What other oil could be getting in there?
Drain some off, and run it. If the level rises again there is an issue or she is making oil in which case she is a real money maker.
Delmer, I thought the same thing. The Pfc at 0.65% is where in lost. I like the other results, but that percent fuel content is strange. I would have expected it to be 0 if there wasn't any fuel as stated in the other category. I have drained the excess oil and I'm going to run the hell out of her while checking daily.
Do you have any hydraulic pumps on the engine, or transmission fluid contact with the engine? Keep a close eye on those levels too, even if it's not obvious how there could be a connection.
How many hours on the oil change? 0.65% in my grader at 5.7 gallons would be 0.037 of a gallon, less than 2/3 of a cup.
That's a good question, obviously there has to be a connection from the engine that powers the main Hydraulic pump. The machine is a hydrostatic drive. Not mechanical tranny. I'll have to look at the manual and see if I can see how the drive train is set up.
Is there a charge pump on the left or right side of the gear train on the engine? My Komatsu has a pump mounted on the left side. Post up some photos. You could change the oil and run it , just keep an eye on the oil level several times a day.
Cutting edge, What is the 0.65 a percentage of? How does that math work? What is that formula? Is that reading as .65 of 1%
I think I got your math, your saying there would be the equivalent of 4.75 ozs out of a possible 730ozs. Thus giving a less than 1% fuel content. Was this your math?
Well, assuming you ran the engine before you took the sample in order to mix the oil. I have no idea how much oil you machine holds, so I based it as if it was my grader which holds 5.7 gal. I can't read your results with my tablet, so I have no idea if they mean 0.65% of the amount in the sample bottle, or 0.65% of your total. With my machine 0.65% of 5.7 gal is 0.037 of a gallon which is less than 2/3 of a cup
That's the most obvious explanation. The half of one percent of fuel isn't causing the level to go up. If that was an over the road truck, or the dozer was working 40 hours a week, then that amount of fuel MIGHT be abnormal. For something not used a lot, it doesn't seem bad. It could be that somebody mistakenly added a few gallons of diesel to the hydraulic tank, then the hydraulic oil leaked into the engine, and that's where the .65% came from.
I really appreciate all you guys taking the time to help me out with this. I'm really hoping this was a classic case of human error of over filling the engine with oil.
Dad had an old Allis Chalmers WD-45 tractor for ten or fifteen years. It was the less common (at least round these parts) diesel version. Not long after he bought it we found the fuel pump leaked into the crankcase. When the oil level would get uncomfortably high and smell like pure diesel, he'd drain it and fill with fresh oil. Was a lot cheaper than fixing that pump. Hard to start in the winter but it saw a lot of use baling in the summer and plowing in the fall. Other than the pesky fuel in oil problem that was the best running tractor we ever had. I bet that fluid analysis would have been 50% diesel!
Interesting thread. You have gone a lot further than most people would of for a slightly over full engine oil. The usual culprit for making engine oil is the fuel lift pump, which is relatively cheep. They are suppose to leak externally through the drip hole, but often end up leaking into the oil pan. Your fluid analysis appears good, so I would agree that its likely just human error.
Maybe someone topped off oil when the machine was not parked level... some of those dipsticks are pretty touchy about that. If it has fuel you will know it pretty easy. Run it and see if it raises the level, if the temp and oil pressure are good, you are ok to run that engine. Lots of the dipsticks that had long outer tubes would read low on the first pull, seemed as the crankcase oil drained to the pan it would pull a slight suction on the tube and draw the oil down below the actual level in the pan. Air locked I would call it. Common to overfill those. International engines were prone to it, and some Cats I have seen do that also. Depending on the size of the engine "if its a fairly large one" and being a D-85 it is....a gallon over won't hurt anything at all.