Hello all, I work for a municipality and the other two members of the highway crew have resigned. The last couple weeks I have been trying to get the hang of our grader. It’s a 1992 jd 672B. I’ve searched through the posts on here and have been able to answer most questions I have about the basic operation. On your first pass do you guys float the toe side and raise the heel to start your windrow or do you cut a couple inches off the entire length of the road and row that up then carry it back across and fill in what you just cut out? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Turkel, I can only tell you how I was taught long ago. First, that blade is like a kids teeter totter, if the toe goes up, the heel goes down. The old blademan that showed me said do your cutting with the toe, spread with the heel. Get moving, set your toe to cut what you need, then let it ride and work the heel. I 'member my first pass trying to work both ends constantly, and he smacked my hand each time I moved the toe! I guess most important, think about what you want to do, and how you want it to look, then work every pass to get it to that point.
Welcome to grading, what type of material are you dealing with? gravel? older clay with some gravel? or just clay road with rocks through it? also did the previous operator cut the roads to the edge of the ditch or are you dealing with a sodded shoulder with gravel pushed up into it, how wide of roads are you dealing with also.
Thanks for the advice! I’ve been setting my toe to cut about 2-4” and my heel about an inch higher than the established crown on my first passes. Then on the 2nd passes I’ll turn my angle a little straighter and go a little quicker to fill in what I just cut out trying not to leave an edge on the ditch side and leaving enough in my windrow to work the other lane.
20/80 our roads are mostly 3/4 minus gravel hardpack some areas are pretty thin and I’ve ended up pulling a lot of rocks anywhere from 3 to 18” diameter. About 50% of our roads have sod shoulder sometimes higher than the ditch line. The width varies from 14 feet on our narrowest road to approximately 28 feet on our biggest.
Filling potholes is just a temporary fix. When possible you need to cut them out. Not sure what you mean about floating the heel. As long as you're not actually putting it in the float position. I find it important to always be in control. Don't grade with the MB all the way back, or straight up and down. I always start being able to see the back of the cuttin edge. Once you start, you can roll the blade ahead, or back to find that sweet spot where she really cuts good. Also, a blade that rolled ahead (not all the way) will lift as you roll it back. That way to don't have to change the position of the heel or toe. If the machine is equipped with nitrogen cylinders, and they work, use them, until you memorize the position of all the big rocks.
As far as pitch goes I’ve been starting with the top of my mb about an inch ahead of my cutting edge (carbide bits) then usually adjust forward a little more til I get a nice rolling action. The ditch side of my blade has usually been in float position depending on how soft the shoulder is. The opposite side towards the crown / center of the road I’ve been setting about an inch or two higher than the existing crown and trying to lay a windrow a little past the center point. I’m sorry if I’m not using the right wording or explaining it very well this is all pretty new to me.
Keep in mind that you have to let the water be able to get off the road, by using a crown and keeping the shoulders clear so water can flow away into the ditch, having sodded shoulders traps the water keeping your shoulders soft, also you can't finish out your crown and get rid of the rocks easily, I use the carbide bit (stingers) also, make sure they are kept in good shape or you will jam rocks between the bits, with stingers all the way back then ahead 1/3 to set your blade for cutting and spreading, how many miles on average are you doing a day?
Thanks for the reply! I will try and get some pictures to give you guys a better idea of what I’ve been doing. I’ll definitely try the 1/3 trick for my pitch today. I’ve probably been doing 5- 6 miles a day then York raking after to tidy things up a bit. With just me I’ve been having to leave enough time to drive the grader back to the shop and plan on time to rake so haven’t been able to get as much done as I would like to.
Pic's would be nice, we are expected to do between 3-5 miles a day, 60ft wide roads, some are narrower 45' at the least, your widths I could see 5-6 miles easy done properly, I usually cut and get set up for spreading in the morning, then spread all afternoon, I have 60 roads I look after plus a few private jobs, I try to get three rounds on them before they freeze up.
Here's a pic of one of my Roads on my 140h
Here’s a couple photos of the day after grading. I meant to get some today but I blew a hose on my first pass. Rolling the moldboard forward gave me a really nice rolling action and helped move the material into a windrow. I’ve been doing a pass down and back to cut down the potholes and generate my material. On the next pass is when I have trouble. I’ve been working my material back across the lane filling in what I just cut but I’m having trouble keeping my crown nice I always seem to get a couple spots where my crown is higher on one side than the other.
Nice pics, not much for ditches, do you have a 12ft blade or 14ft?
I believe it’s a 12 footer. A lot of our roads are lacking as far as ditches. The one picture with a “ditch” was where I tried to at least make a spot for the water instead of it cutting down the side of the road. Once it dries out a little around here I’m going to make another attempt.
Not a blade man, but I agree that the ditches are a thing. As you settle into this routine, maybe think about making time for serious ditch work on the worst sections. Can you man up for projects like that? Get other pieces involved, a loader and truck? You can get those big rocks up and gone when you are fixing the ditches.
I thought you might be running a 12 footer, yes it has been wet here this year also, ditches did not really dry up compared to the last couple of summers, I also learned on a 12 footer, they are great for narrower roads, sorry for all the questions but needed to know what your dealing with before giving you some thoughts to help you.
I would love to have the time and manpower to be able to reditch the entire town. Right now it’s only me in the highway dept so I’m kind of limited to one piece of equipment at a time. Once I finish up this round of grading I’m going to do some running around with the excavator and get as much as I can done. I think my problem ditching with the grader last time was it was very wet and I didn’t articulate my tandems to keep them in the road. I managed to get the machine stuck at least twice.
Haha with our little goat paths I can’t imagine trying to do it with anything bigger. A couple of our roads are only 14 wide and I’ve found it challenging to get a nice crown with only half the blade. No worries about questions it’s all part of the thought process. I appreciate you guys taking the time to offer your advice.
That's the trans Canada compared to anything I have to do for maintainence. I did one on the long weekend with no fines, and big rocks. Your road looks like you're getting ready for pave. Nice job. Wife was down to her homeland that weekend for Nova Scotia pizza and donairs.
Looks good for a newbie. Keep it up.
Thanks but I know there’s a lot of room for improvement. 20/80s road looks text book quality. With enough practice I hope I can get to that level of workmanship.
Here's a couple of pics of me on my 140H doing some road recovery and ditching, before and after.
Seat time buddy, don't be nervous to try new things, soon enough you will be a master at hiding your sins,
You did a nice job of grading. How do you get rid of the sod without losing the gravel attached to the sod especially when it's wet which we all know is best for grading. Thanks for all your posts, very interesting! FWD
What town in VT do you work for? I don't know much about grading roads but my best friend runs the grader here and I could ask his advice. I can't imagine a one man road crew no matter how small the town. I hope they're hiring more help before snow comes??
With any amount of sod with gravel stuck to it, I shake it back and forth across the road using the mixing position of the blade, everything was done in the pics with stingers, they do a great job of breaking up the sod leaving the gravel laying on the road, what is left is put up into the backslope.
Turkelton919 are the roads your grading in a populated residential area or mostly back road?
I work for the town of Bridgewater. We had a 3 man crew but the other two resigned. I hope they can get some more help too. It’s going to be a long winter if it’s just myself.
They’re mostly back roads I usually only meet a handful of cars. Most people are pretty good about getting by I can usually just sideshift my blade and let them by. Thanks for the nudge I’ll have to try ditching again. Even a messed up ditch that lets the water flow is better than nothing. I’ve got to work harder on not leaving an edge of material on the side
Well here's what I suggest, you may try shifting your pin to shift your blade, this will put your material between your rear wheels also giving you a lot more angle for your blade so that your rear wheels won't run over your windrow when spreading also moves rocks easier in your material to the edge to get rid off, also great for reaching out keeping you off any soft shoulders when cutting, I would cut the right side of the edge of the road going with the flow of traffic then the left, push the windrows still cutting into one than move that windrow about three feet from the edge of the road, start spreading your material to center of the road, even if you half to make a extra pass to move it a foot to achieve center do it, than spread the rest over to the other edge leaving a rise in the center, think about the shape of a roof of a house the peak being the center, you can run over the rise with your tires to pack it down if you leave to much of a rise, you can also make a cut at the roads edges and just roll the material in the woods, makes a place for water and rocks to go, not the nicest finish but helps with the road and a place for rain water to go, remember if you have material coming out the discharge end of the blade even the smallest amount your blade is full all the way across, no material coming out means your blade is becoming empty and you will get a bald spot in the road, positioning your machine left and right over the windrow when spreading controls the amount of discharge of material also, hours of seat time you will get better. hope this helps
Thanks for the advice! I had never thought about moving the pin. After reading this I think part of my problem was trying to do too much in to little passes. I’ve been keeping my wheels about a foot in from the shoulder the entire time. I’ll try repositioning myself when spreading to control my discharge a little better.
Here’s some pictures from today
A few more
Great pics, in one of your pics moving your material with your blade, your angle is at its max before you start running over your windrow, lifting your blade on the discharge end to let the material flow under the blade to achieve center will only make a zig zag pattern in your crown, with the road that narrow it would be hard to center your windrow for building a little crown without moving the pin.
That’s exactly what’s been happening and my crown has been all over the place. So what I should be doing is moving the pin over and angling hard enough so I can discharge inside my tandems and keep the windrow dead center where I want my crown to be right?
Yes, this will give you more movement on your blade, better advantage for moving material and placing it where you want it, take your time, takes a bit to get use to, graders are great tools when you figure out its capabilities, makes your job much easier.
This time of year I usually have a windrow of debris, sod. I leave it laying on the shoulder for a month to rot/dry. Then it busts up and goes away without losing any gravel. I blade 50 miles of roads in a variety of soil conditions. I know my roads very well. I make subtle changes to the blade when changing roads without thought. I just know how each one works best. So don't be afraid to make adjustments. A lot is learned with experimenting. Also, none of us can tell you how to blade your roads. You will learn what works for you and what doesn't. I learned that several years ago on this website. Everyone is helpful and suggestions are always an attempt to help you. In the end, it's all on you. My machine and roads allow me to blade at a faster speed than most on here prefer. I run 6.5-7.0 mph on the first two passes. 14-15mph on the final pass. I catch a lot of flack when I say that. But I know what works best on my roads. If your machine lopes you are going the wrong speed. Not sure if you are going too fast. Not sure if you are going too slow. Damn sure you are going the wrong speed. Make adjustments until you find the right speed. I'm 31 years in the seat. Still learning.
That is fast for spreading, my machine old and new would hop at those speeds leaving your road wash boarded, 4-5 mph max, I can feel it coming on so I slow down to avoid the print in the road, Yep, i'm still learning every day, 18 years in the seat now.
An old fella, passed away now, asked me if I knew how to articulate the machine to avoid the bounce. I told him no, and he said he would show me some time. Never talked to him again. Not sure if it was a thing, or if he was trying to see if I was a know it all if I had said I already know how to do it.
Yes... it will bounce when your articulate, I have tried all the fixes, from different air pressures in your tires, then making sure all the tires are the same brand and a few more I can't remember, with my machine speed is the trigger and slowing down stops it, I use the articulate all the time with cutting a hard road to spreading, articulating will help with building your crown when spreading, as a example, put your blade on the ground straight across, then leaving it in that position articulate your machine, take note now your blade has risen at one end a lowered in the other, use this position to your advantage.
I find bouncing to be an issue when feathering out, or losing material on a final pass. I agree that speed is an issue, along with dry powder. I don't ditch much, if ever. Sometimes on a new built road, after it is paved, I use the saddle lock pin to blend the slope between the different lifts of subgrade, 3 inch, and inch and a quarter. Other than that the only time it gets used is to change the cutting edge, or cut it straight with the torch. Another favorite is trying to spread 2 or 3 inches of material over a hard packed surface, and having it slide ahead of the material in the blade.
Yes, last pass this is where you will get some wash boarding, mostly a speed thing, I struggle sometimes too with losing abit of material on the final pass, I think everyone that runs a grader experiences this every now and then, old hand told me you have to figure out the math when spreading.
Thanks for the advice! I’ve been going relatively slow for cutting and have found going a little quicker with each pass as I’m finishing seems to help feather the material out. I’m still pretty green with the machine and haven’t dared going more than probably 5-7 mph with the blade down. I haven’t had any problems with loping but I did find a culvert and a chunk of ledge with my blade the other day.
When i'm doing a road I am not use to I will do a hazard drive by and mark culverts and any other hazards that can get ripped up in the blade with a ribbon, that looks like some nice material your working with.
Looks like you are off to a real good start.
Yeah that stuff packs really nicely. Occasionally we’ll have trouble with it getting a little slimy after a rain but overall it’s pretty good. I did do some scouting afterwards and found a couple more culverts and rocks poking through.
I see no difference in bounce by articulating. As I said earlier, bounce might be because you are going too fast, or it might be because you are going to slow, but for sure you are going the wrong speed. Road conditions and composition also come into play with bounce. What I can do might not be possible at a different geographic location. I even see differences in my individual roads and sometimes alter my speed .1 mph to correct bounce. I use articulation almost as much as front steer. My machine is a rack machine. Outside right side lever is right blade lift. Second in right side lever is left blade lift. Third in right side lever is articulation. Lift levers are in my palm, thumb on articulation lever. When my roads are soft I use articulation to spread my track so I don't rut the shoulder as bad. Run with the rear track toward center of the road a tire width.
I prefer the rack over joysticks, I guess i'm old school, the JD's are nice machines we have 4-5 in our Eastern district.
In our situation, it's an additional $25K to get a joystick machine. It's simply not mathematically feasible. I believe in situations where a lot of control activity is involved the joystick machine is a bit more efficient. For normal road maintenance I don't see much difference. In those conditions I dislike the visibility out of the Cat M machines, front and rear. I also dislike the cramped conditions in the cab of the M joystick model. I think both brands produce quality machines. Just wish they'd get more serious about quality control and technical repairs.
Oh yes, I believe you mentioned you preferred the Deere controls. I like the blade lift on each hand, although my Mauldin maintainer has both blade lift controls on my left hand. I can always tell if someone has moved my Volvo, as they always lift the front plow piston while trying to figure out how to lift the MB
The only blade I've ever ran with the lift controls at each end of the rack was a 1973 CAT 12. "One hand" blade lift controls can be set up on either end. And can be set up on any brand of hydraulic machine using a rack. With JD it's a set up option. When we trade I always request it set up with one hand operation at the right end of the rack. Then I rearrange the levers to get the articulation lever in line with the lift levers. All of these things are personal preference. Same with blade methods and speed. The only wrong choice is the one that isn't working. Speed up. Slow down. Articulate. Roll the blade more. Roll the blade less. Angle more. Angle less. But do something to correct whatever problem you are experiencing. Don't just keep driving along messing up the road.