Wasn't Sure what topic these would fall under so I'll leave it to the Mod's to put them where they belong. This is the south shore of Lake Pontchartrain Levee a few miles from I-10 headed into New Orleans. This Job is one of the BIGGEST cluster **** I've ever seen. Trucks are dumping on swamp pads, then dozers push sand 200 yards out, hopefully to some type of grade. They do not use the GPS on the dozers very often that I've seen mostly because it looks like no one really knows how to use them properly or that they have limited operators that know how. Its hilarious to watch, frustrating to sit forever making very little money because the dozers pushing sand can barely keep up. All 7 of them at this levee. 5 or 6 at another levee off I-10. Enjoy, I'll be happy to tell what I know and I'm sorry for the poor quality pictures, If I get caught using a phone/handheld device they will throw me off the job for the day:ban
coupla more Looks like fun huh? ointhead
Not sure what they are trying too do,other then waste tax money!!!!! If they are trying to build another levee too the height of the old levee where the pickups are setting then they don't have worry about using GPS for quite awhile . Where the trucks have the haul road looks like toe stakes for widing the old level.But the other pictures they just look like their wasting fill sand?You will have to explain,with more detail:beatsme. Great pics for no handheld equipment .Thanks:usa
looks like a nice beach when they get done.lol I hope there not building a levee out of sand. no wonder they fail! Good pictures w/ a camera phone though
Boggled Well I was hoping somebody with site prep experience could sum it up. I'll get a few more pictures tomorrow. They are spreading some type of fabric material over the swamp muck then spreading the sand over that. The sand is not compacted with the exception of the dozers running over it multiple times. Nothing can be driven on it without a swamp pad under it. These levees are incredibly small considering whats expected of them. I reside in South Central Florida on a lake called Okeechobee. The levees built by the Army Corps of Engineers there at Lake Okeechobee are HUGE compared to these mole hills. Sadly I have not done much research net wise about this but its hilarious to watch. If what they are doing even survives a minimal storm surge this summer (hurricance season) I'll be shocked. Stories from the locals are that there was a commission appointed by the state to maintain these levees not long after they were constructed, but the usual corruption/misappropriation of federal/state funding lead to the disbanding of such.....now this massive effort to fix something that should have been maintained and upgraded systematically. As a tax payer I'd really hate to know how much is being spent here and I'm pretty sure the federal government just shuts up, signs the cheque hoping the media never get wind of it and make a stink about it. I know this too, the dozer operators are making some of the best hourly wages paid anywhere in ALL the southeast.:drinkup
Without the engineering design and the overall project plan to look at, it's hard to come to a conclusion on the operation. The process may not seem efficient to the untrained eye during the different stages of the project. From the pictures we don't know what the finish elevation is or the width of the levee. Regardless it looks like a lot of fill is required. Or it could be just a big waste of taxpayers money.:beatsme
Yes Sir, Lots and lots of fill. I did some research and saw the Army Corps Of Engineers is still looking for 13.4 million square yards of clay for various projects in the area.
amen
Fiber This is the paper/fiber spread they are putting under the sand. On close up its heavy duty stuff, very thick and they mesh it so it won't separate.
Found it But the resolution sucks because of the sun....I tried to play with it a little to clean it up but...
It kind of looks like they are building a living shoreline to take the wave action. Is there a stone sill out in the water from the edge of the sand?
I worked on some levees in st bernard parish. Any time you get the corrupt corps and local contractors to work down there,there is something going on. Any way we removed and bags and broken concrete chunks that where air dropped in to close the hole in the levee. We replace it with sand then a heavy fabric liner and then compacted clay. I am sure what we removed was stronged than what replaced it.
Did they actually say they were looking for SQUARE yards?
Just a thought, how about we stop building cities in swamp lands except for shipping docks, and my favorite one if they keep adding to a city that is already below sea level and sits at the coast it deserves to sink. That seems to make as much sense as trying to grade water.
whos the company doing the work......looks like their using woven geofabric , ive used it before works good keeps the sand from pushing down into the mud, its kinda like the black silt fence but woven tighter
Looks like fun. We do alot of Corps levee projects all over the pacific northwest and we have never used sand unless we were building a beach or the related. Keep sneeking the pics and would like to see the finished product.
Doubt I'll be around here much past the warming trend that occurs up north where theres actual money to be made.... This is what a section of the pad they were working on looked like this morning, its wrong for me to pass judgement on them but....they aren't very organized. Any reputatable grading foreman would have set an area clear for the morning with over 100 trucks expected before 7 am. Instead, it was a cluster **** most of the day waiting 45 mins to dump. Being paid by the ton isn't a very good deal working for them. Hard to say whether they "asked" for clay but this is the web version. http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/hps/borrow_pits_home.htm They have another Job in a Section of New Orleans called Belle Chase. They run over 80 trucks close to 24 hours a day on clay only too that jobsite. I was down there once and it looks like they are building a huge turbine pump for water or....something like that. There's 6 cranes over 200 ton lift capacity each, equipment everywhere. Kiewit have that job. The section I am involved in is Phillips and Jordan.
Excuse me again....I'm such an idiot around experts. They are looking for "Cubic" yards. So sorry.
They have another Job in a Section of New Orleans called Belle Chase. They run over 80 trucks close to 24 hours a day on clay only too that jobsite. I was down there once and it looks like they are building a huge turbine pump for water or....something like that. There's 6 cranes over 200 ton lift capacity each, equipment everywhere. Kiewit have that job. The section I am involved in is Phillips and Jordan.[/QUOTE] P & J! that in it self tells a story.
I'll comment later w/ insight; busy rebuilding my D8H at the moment.
Like some have already interjected, w/o a set of plans and specs, you really don't know the intent of this project; and I personally have not been to this exact location but can say, from experience, what I think is happening. Most levee systems exist because surrounding topography is low; therefore the need for a levee. If the adjacent topo would be higher, no levee need exist. Most levee systems incorporate seepage berms on either side, and sometimes both protected and unprotected side of the levee. These "berms" are built only to serve as weight. This weight disallows the development of what hydraulic engineers describe as a "flow net"...... actually it is the movement of water, not unlike a river, that flows under the levee reach. Levees typically fail from the bottom, not the top, contrary to popular belief. This is why the sand fill is acceptable as fill... the Corps is only trying to add WEIGHT. This WEIGHT makes the dreaded flow net very difficult to perpetuate. The filter cloth (geotextile fabric) is placed to help bridge over the underlying unsuitable material, mostly to facilitate fill placement. Good levee construction need not consist of 100% impermeable material. The Corps will sometimes zone certain borrow material for placement. Typically, more permeable materials (sands and silts) will be placed on the Landside, aka the Protected Side, and the more impermeable materials be zoned for use on the Riverside, aka Unprotected Side. Most of the time, impermeable materials are preferred, especially to encapsulate the earthen structure............. but the sad reality is, that it's not economically feasible to use clay materials everywhere. Clay is a commodity in New Orleans; and when I say commodity, I mean it. Good, high plasticity indexed clays are worth sometimes as much as $30/ CY, delivered, in place. The cost breakdown is typically like this: $10/ Cy just to purchase the material, pure slop, by the way. then $12-$15/ Cy just for transportation, then about $10/ Cy to process (dry the slop out) and install in lifts, compact, and dress. All said, it's cost is about $30/ Cy!!!!!............. By comparison, the taxpayer can save $5/ Cy by using sands in lieu of clays. And if the purpose is to simply add weight, then sand is a good alternative to clays. BTW: Sand can be bought for $5/ Cy. Hope this helps some of you. I know that all that money being spent here in South La. is a sore spot for the taxpayers... but there are more interests than meet the eye.
With all the damage and the cost of repairing the damage and more problems inevitable am I the only one that wonders why the city was built there in the first place? I mean you could have the port but build town on higher ground. Never liked a house in a hole
A special thank you to Jason for the patient, well worded synopsis of what is being done here. This picture is one of the better dozer operators doing some spreading. Watching the spread I noticed he was not using the Topcon GPS system at all. We are using Three different pits to haul sand, two are small local pits in Mississipi. The truck traffic on I-10 is heavy. There are accidents every few days that involve a truck. DOT have a set of scales on I-10 about a mile north of the Newly built Twin Span Bridge which see every sand hauling truck mutiple times a day. The clay pit is directly across from the scales just off the service rd.
I agree. We certainly can't know the designer's intent from just looking at some pics. And without being there there is no way to know from a few pics whether it's being built to specs.
With a deep fill depth there is no reason to run GPS. On a deep fill, it's all about production - getting the material down, rough graded, compacted and ready for the next lift. You don't get paid any more for a level fill lift, -6' FG. The only reason to grade a fill lift is if rain is expected and you need it to drain.
DPete, I agree with you to a large degree. Not unlike the evolution of all other things, the development of New Orleans was evolution; not necessarily planned. It was an important port that sparked the growth of the United States. Its location as a port was/ still is important for the welfare of the country's economy. And such, a large port was a haven for employment years ago. And with employment comes population. Much of the rebuilding dollars could be described as "the price of domestic tranquility" But anyway, I feel as you do, and like lots of folks do, from other reaches of the U.S.......... if it were me I would have abandoned that hole; would have left the port facility in, included a large Naval Base and that be it. That said, consider our highway system. Its origins were crooked, dirt trails developed from settlers driving wagons; They took the paths of least resistance, probably not much planning and thought for the future. Then years later, this dirt path gets paved with gravel, then years later, asphalt or concrete. It is evolution. I think that the development of New Orleans is no different. But anyway, I'm conservative and vote Republican. My Grandfather was the first Repulican mayor in the state of Louisiana! I hate give-away programs and hence, have larger thorns in my side about Federal tax dollars used in the rebuilding and protection of our nasty, stink hole. ointhead
Thanks for the explanation Jason not much of that type of work going on here these day .
Orchard, They have simple sill fences driven that they run the geofabric out too off the levee. The only stone out there is crushed concrete they use on the haul roads. I I'm a little concerned that the locals would sub this out to a contractor that has limited experience here. The GC, Phillips & Jordan are a fairly large US/International Contractor. I'm sure they do good work in certain areas, but this ones a little off the map for them. We get sand from three different local pits. I think a price war is going to heat up because just yesturday Lafarge are supplying now. The other two pits are local property owners with mining permits. That ones an easy win. It rained today, We won't run for 2 days or better now. made $30 today
That's right. I have seen quite a few surveyors when you have a deep fill, put stakes every 25 feet inside the fill before the first lift. Why? :Banghead
Couldn`t have said it better myself.... And local contractors did bid on this job but every bid was destroyed by this company. I know of a few local trucks that started to work on this project and stoped after a few days because they would only clear $175 after running a truck 14 hours. I dont understand how so many trucks can come over here and work for half the price local trucks can plus have the cost of living and working out of town. I would be willing to bet that when this project is complete everyone will go home without making any money out of town trucks and the contractor. Just my opinion.
That looks like a Trimble GPS not Topcon, not a big deal.
Lol, I wonder the same thing every time I see a story about your neighbors in California rebuilding after an earthquake/wildfire/mudslide or see flooded houses next to (any big river) being rebuilt in the same spot. But who am I to judge when I'm living in a hurricane prone area? I'd probably rebuild here too.:beatsme
Theres some song with a line in it that goes "New Orleans is sinking baby"...Well I didn't much believe an entire city could be sinking ... but it is. On that haul road we use that is on the outer side of the levee, they have swamp pads for the trucks to run over from dump locations begining to end. On the curve where the mainline swamp pads are placed they put extra pads set wide because of the longer trucks needing the extra room. The mainline set of pads is sunk down over 18 inches, possibly as much as two foot, when they originally set the pads they were all level. The outer pads they set to accomodate the wide turning trucks are pretty torn up now and that corner has to be taken with a little extra care because if you come off the pads with more than just your front tire, you are stuck. And being stuck there would **** everybody off because its almost dead center of where they are working on the job. Yesturday in the rain the haul road became impassable in less than an hour. they had over 25 trucks sitting on it during the downpour. I got on the CB and reminded the lead truck that the longer we sat there the better the chances we might get stuck. He told me the safety man told him to stop. I screamed back that they can catch us at the end on high ground if they want us so bad and send us around. He finally gets moving, the pads are heaving in the muck already started by all the water. Lucky we make it out and theres no one around to tell us what to do with the load they already paid for....so we leave. The rain slows down and they call saying to come back with the load. Go back down and get stuck 50 yards after crossing over the top of the levee approaching the haul road. Took 2 hours to dump one load on that one.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......... the romance of working in New Orleans. There's more where that came from.
Yep there sure is Mr Jason, I wouldn't want to know what some of what you have been through down here with this lovely swamp The haul road was once level. Obviously its not now and they aren't going to fix it anytime soon because they have enough to tend too as it is.
Levees My Dad worked on the levee system in the 1920's and 1930's after the great flood that happened on Mississippi River from Memphis to New Orleans
The dozers were at it hot and heavy here.....trying to keep up with the amount of trucks is a challenge. They do pretty good sometimes... I have noticed at times they are using the Trimble GPS to fine grade. In a Conversation with a coupla them operators today they told me its a 2 ft lift in total....18 inches first (no compaction) and then the other 6 inches. Army Corps ride them pretty hard too.
That sounds familiar lol. I've run a dozer on Corps contract work for the past 10 years, and they can be tough. They explained it to me right from the start that "there's the right way, the wrong way, and the Corps way. You're gonna do it the Corps way."
The head of an earthworks company over here explained it to me the exact same way...go figure.....used it myself on occasion....
I've seen a similar method done at a hydro-electric dam near where I'm from. They have dikes to hold water for the forebay in and on the dry side they have a very wide pad probably three feet thick made out of sand running along the length of the dike. My dad is a geotechnical engineer and he pretty much gave me the same explanation.
The locals tell me the haul road we are using is one of the best ever....I'd really hate to see the bad ones...whewwww. They say in the rain they can completely disappear in under 2 hours if being used during the rain. I cannot count how many loads of fill they use on it per day but its no less than 100 CUBIC tons....triaxles and belly dumps. Looks like they are getting a little something done
what they waste here is not even a drop in the bucket campared to the pork in washinton its good to see some come our way no matter what people are working
Do you mean cubic yards?
What is a cubic ton?Ron G
not to bust balls but a 100 tons is only like 4 to 5 loads usless guys are hauling really really light
And in other parts of the country, thats only 1 and 3/4 quarter loads
michigan is its own part of the world , with what you guys can haul up there
Theres a bridge from the pit to the site that has a set of scales a mile and a half before the approach. Twin Span its called. They have a limit of 80,000 pounds and NO permitted loads are allowed across it atall. We are really light...and it sucks. At 78,000 I'm still getting over axle tickets on either the trailer or the drive axles. I've blown past them a number of times at 90,000 plus anyways. I DID get capped for a scale house blowby but had only 79,000 on the trailer and got a $500 ticket for that. I was just being an idiot above with the cubic thing to see how many would bite down on it. The fill for the road comes from pits inside New Orleans city limits and they have a slim chance of seeing any DOT enforcement atall.
They started Levee three now.
My stint as a truck driver has ended. Therefore I am not able to post anymore pictures of this particular job. Nobody noticed the tarp on the sidedump? It just got torn off because the driver dumped while the load was still covered. The fella walking up next to the truck is the owner....