Hey HEF, First time poster (Now second) Quick Intro: College student at Washington Univ. in St. Louis, looking to do a project on the construction machinery industry in North America and found this forum and thought I could get the most first-hand experience on the differences of equipment between manufacturers e.g. CAT, Komatsu, JD, Hitachi and any others I am missing. I am specifically looking at excavators, wheel-loaders, and mini-excavators within the heavy machinery space. Mainly, looking for your opinions on: Ease of operation e.g. controls, visibility, cab Hydraulic capability Performance by job type Uptime performance Aftermarket maintenance Lifecycle cost (TCO) Any other factors you guys think should be included Thanks for any help you guys can offer and let me know if there is somewhere else I should post this thread! Please ignore the non-creative username
Hello new person. Welcome to the HEF! Graduate work? I remember those days back at the ivory tower. Good times. Coeds and general debauchery. Check out the resources at the Associated Equipment Dealers Association. They study that stuff and create white papers and such. Lots of connections with higher Ed.
Hey Coaldust, Undergrad work currently and sounds good I will check that out really wanted to get an understanding from people who have operated the different manufacturers equipment on their thoughts. Also I have recently learned of JD and Hitachi partnership and trying to learn what equipment Hitachi built for JD and whether JD loses those with the ending of the partnership. Also unclear on the different buckets of excavators by size and the projects they are used for. Super super excited to keep learning
also have a question on the best way to get access as a student I unfortunately am not a distributor, manufacturer, or service company
Another very good resource about specifics is the Caterpillar Performance Handbook series. It has been on hiatus since the WuFlu, but grab an older copy from EBay. They are like Poke’man. Gotta get them all. Call the AED or specifically the AED Foundation. Seriously, what you are asking is so broad. You are really going to need to narrow it down.
Okay I will start looking into purchasing right now and hop on the phone. Thanks so much. If I were to narrow it down to ask the performance difference of 13 tonne to 35 tonne excavators by company and then performance of mini-excavators by company would that be a narrower ask?
Welcome to the Forums SP29! Glad to have you. As CD stated your question is broad, you may want to narrow it down. In order to get a well rounded batch of data you are going to need input from owners, operators and mechanics. Each of those 3 groups can provide a specific aspect of a piece of equipment from different perspectives. One suggestion I would make is you left out an important component in heavy equipment ownership and operation - relationship and support from the local dealer.
Thanks for the welcome CM! Great point about the relationship and support. To narrow it down: Going to start with the overseas of the project first in Japan: Hitachi and Komatsu 1-5 rating over the categories mentioned and why if you have time: Ease of operation e.g. controls, visibility, cab Performance by job type Support and maintenance from local dealer (Thanks CM!!)
For sure. You could easily collect spec sheets for the different models and brands and compare. You could make spreadsheets and aggregate all sorts of data. You could make a poll and and question the hive on ergonomics or whatever. Brand preference or whatever
Recommendation for collecting spec sheet for example how to know whether certain models are comparable between companies and making sure I am comparing Apples to Apples and also knowing what Specs actually matter. Also came here because I am wary of the manufacturers honesty with their equipment capabilities
Despite what they say they all break down. Parts cost and availability may be something else to consider. I know when the county bought a D6N one of the things that really stood out was that Cat offered rebuilt exchange components at a fraction of cost of complete new components. The Komatsu performed the best but they didn't offer exchange components. That could really add up over time. I think for something like a dozer the county keeps machines for a long time. They were using about a 1968 D8 with a cable scraper and a 1970 627 to work on the road in 2005! Cat only offered $10K trade in each on the D8's with scrapers. The county had 2 they bought new. Undercarriage was probably better than 80% remaining. They have since sold them at auction. They were direct drive with no blades and only used to pull scrapers. Probably good machines to buy because they wouldn't be stressed as much as dozers or ripper tractors.
One thing you will find is that there is NO MSRP on any heavy equipment unlike a car or truck.
I would bet there are suggested MSRP's but the dealers can set there own profit margins. I don't think Cat or anyone else would want a dealer undercutting other dealers. A lot of customers would drive a few hours away to save $10,000 or more on a large machine. I don't know of a law that says MSRP's have to be listed.
As far as ergonomics, they are all about the same. An excavator is an excavator. The old ones were a pain, and there was more differences, but since maybe the mid 2000's they are all about the same. Minor nit picky differences is about it. The best excavator is the one that is not currently broken down, and wasn't broken down last week either. The excavator that is not currently broken down and wasn't broken down last week is the machine that was best maintained.
Never ran a Hitachi and only have limited time in the seat of a Komatsu. In 2007 demo'd a Cat 325DL and Komatsu 300 at the same time on the same job. The Komatsu's tower controls in the cab got so hot on the left side it was uncomfortable to sit in the seat. That and the Komatsu was $15K more than the 325DL so the obvious machine was chosen to purchase. Never owned either a Hitachi or Komatsu. Next question
I started out on old excavator junk, a funky Case every control was a mess on it like a pedal to run the bucket etc. Then to a nice newer Hitachi the first real excavator I ran with decent controls. Then an old Cat 235 that was a slow constantly breaking down pile of junk, I'm thinking the house finally fell off the swing frame(is that the correct name? I remember car body at one manufacture) after the boss sold it? My favorite excavator is a Komatsu and even the older junky ones just kept running.
Carbody is what P&H called it.