Finally saved up enough pennies to get some new rails for my 977L, thought i would post some pictures of the Pad removal process. The old pads aren't great but I still can get some life out of them. What a job to get them off!! so far the best method I've found is to hit them with a plasma cutter then snap the heads off with a breaker bar. The bolts are all 100% seized, if anyone has any tricks to speed up the process I AM ALL EARS.
The only thing faster is a BIG rattle gun that will snap the bolts. Reckon you're doing fine, it's always the time consuming part of the job.
Getting the old pads off is the worst part. I cut the nuts off with a torch. Hang the rails off the loader of another machine and walk up them with a big hammer. Hit the pad on the outside edges to walk it off the old bolts. I found if I cut the heads slag hung between the bolt and pad and they were harder to knock off. Good luck John
I find that burning the nuts off is easer then burning the head off the bolt . You don’t have to worry about gouging the pad .doesn’t matter if you Gough the rail
Are you doing anything with your sprockets? You will see accelerated wear on the new rails if the sprockets are not matching correctly due to wear.
Only thing I ever found to remove bolts on these machines was a gas axe or a 1" rattle gun the latter being slower. Shoes have some life as noted by bolt head height. I too would axe the nuts as the rails are done. Cat shops used to use a hydraulic wrench to either break them loose or off. Far as using the plasma cutter, I did see the debris laying the rails, stay clear of sending a shower of sparks into the belly pans if you have not cleaned this machine up as you won't put it out once afire.
Thanks for all the reply's gentlemen. So far I have been making reasonable progress with the pad removal, I did try the impact only method however the nuts seem to be somewhat undersize and they simply destroy my sockets. Dmiller, Yes I am very cautious with the sparks and luckily the machine has been recently cleaned. I did have the crud in the belly pans catch fire last year and it was a lesson i won't soon forget, I had quick access to a hydrant which ended up saving the day. Always something to be mindful of, its amazing how these machines will burn even though they are mostly steel!! LOL Old-iron-habit, Sprockets were new last year and are 100%, with maybe 10 hours on them. I'm hoping they will wear in nicely to the new rails, looking back now I should have just left the old ones in place until I had the funds for the new rails. Lesson Learned Thanks again guys and I will hopefully update with some pictures this weekend.
How bad are your bottom rollers? If they are rounded or tapered that will take 20% off your new tracks in a month. Bob
If have not ever been done can trim flanges back with a torch with the machine up on the bucket then blocks. Make a retainer bracket from a c-clamp or some form of clamp so once start cutting the torch will remain in place then hack the flange until reasonable clearance. Only good ONE time so if show a gas axe edge is too late for another. Have to do both inner and outer flanges. And yes is a stop gap action where next time the rollers will be scrap.
I'll get some pictures of the bottom rollers when I split the tracks, there seems to be a mix of old and new. I have checked that they all roll freely and look to be in reasonable condition. Great time to be working in the shop here in Alberta, blowing snow and -26 Celsius tonight
Should be a mix of dual and single flange. Layout should be in a service manual as to where and why dual flange.
Took a few years of saving... Finally got my new rails! If anyone is looking for a great deal on undercarriage, speak with Neil at Dan Mar equipment in Leduc, AB.
I see you got split link masters, good choice. Will need special bolts for that point shoe. SALT Rails? Clean the excess paint from the teeth/threads prior to assembly.
Looks to be more them just a shop. With the easy chair it appears that you and your helper have a combination shop and man cave. I'm guessing the refrigerator is just out of site next to the chair. Them new tracks are going to be fun to run with.
I'm just curious what's under the tarp behind the couch... looks like something fun
Looks like a bit of high performance rubber peeking out the side.
the chair is for him to supervise the helper
Way too damn clean, you need a mud pile and lots of axe slag laying around then half finished or unstarted projects EVERYWHERE like the rest of us!!!
Hey Guys! Thanks for the replies, yeah i'm pretty excited to get the new rails under her! They are salt rails from TREK, and believe it or not they came WITH the split link bolts! Don't worry guys once the track/pad swap is done there will be mud everywhere... lol Under the tarp is just an old mustang, 72' MACH 1 (My brother in law is in the Photo) I imagine the first question will be "What's under the hood??" 408 Windsor w/ Aussie Cleveland heads (Clevor), Mated to a 5 speed tremec Lots of fun
Looking for opinions on the following I'm considering welding bars on the tracks to increase the grouser height, I was thinking about using 1/2" bar stock. Worth it? Should I be concerned about the gouges around the bolt holes? (Plasma cutter) All comments are appreciated!! Thanks guys
Pretty much everyone sells Trek undercarriage in Alberta. I got the best deal at Arrow West Equipment in Acheson. Years ago I bought directly from Trek and they were great to deal with so I went with Trek again for my 931B but had to buy from a dealer. When I had questions about unusual wear on the bushings, the new manager at Trek was a total jerk. He's telling me to talk the dealer, which I did and they suggested talking to Trek because they are the supplier/ manufacturer. I'm sure they have charts explaining reasons for all kinds of wear but the guy had absolutely zero interest in trying to help me and was extremely arrogant. I was hoping I could reuse my pads but too many were loose so I had new ones installed. I asked them if the had an impact wrench so they could take the master link apart to coil my old tracks and was told no. They torched the links. When I went to pick everything up with the new pads installed, the guy on the track press was using a large impact wrench to take someone else's master links apart. I hope I don't have to buy undercarriage again but will think twice about dealing with Trek again. I couldn't believe how bad the customer service was compared to how good it was the first time. The Trek depot seems to move to a new location every few years.
You should price out new pads. It was several years ago but the pads on my machine were about $15/piece. Flat bar will wear out real fast. By the time you weld and repair the gouges on the pads and weld proper grouser bar on, you're probably going to be close to what new pads will cost and it will take a bunch of time. I paid a couple hundred bucks extra to have the pads properly torqued on the track press. It would have been much better to cut the nuts off.
If I were going to add grouser height I would either 1) order Grouser Stock, there are manufacturers of that and will cut to length or as noted 2) buy new shoes but I would wear these out first, probably 1-2000 hours left in those.
Just in case you don't know (I didn't), the master link uses a different shoe.
Doesn't hurt to price out new track pads. For me it would depend on how many pads had the holes gouged from the plasma torch. Fixing the holes and running them as is sure. The holes would have to welded up and ground perfectly flat so the bolts would stay tight. Then add up the costs of the new grouser bars cut to length, welding electrodes and compare cost to new pads. On a loader you would need 2 or maybe 3 new grousers on each pad which almost doubles the cost over a dozer that only requires one grouser per pad.
I had a 963B with double bar grouser pads that were @ half worn. I'm pretty sure I welded 1" (might have been 1 1/2") grouser bar stock on the front grouser of each pad. It took a fair amount of time. I remember wondering if it was going to be worth it in the end. It worked out real well for that machine it had alot more traction but it had a blade on it most of the time. I would probably go with 1/2"-3/4" bar with a bucket on it.
Thanks for all the replies. Pricing on a set of shoes came in at 5500.00 CAD, i'm going to try get some pricing on bar stock so I can compare my options. If anyone has info on where to acquire bar stock in Alberta it would be appreciated. Thanks guys!
There are several suppliers on the Web. here's one ... http://www.fordsteel.com/wearalloy_grouser_bar.htm But if you want cheap... For a low use machine or non-abrasive conditions ... I read of a guy that welded Re-bar to the worn grousers.
I purchased some grouser bar from this company about 2 years ago, for a D4D Dozer, but it seems to me the shortest bar available may have been about an inch, quite a bit for a loader if you are turning a lot. http://www.titussteel.com/contact-us/ On my old loader I just did some buildup on the loader pads & that is plenty good for the amount I use it. Used .045 flux core, if I remember correctly. If your machine is not used all the time 5/8" rebar would be just fine in my opinion, so long as you have the time to do the welding. Not as hard as grouser bar mat'l, but will still last a long time too.
The machine will be running in black dirt 99% of the time
Is the "black dirt" a loamy topsoil type or would it be more abrasive? How many hrs per year will you put on the machine?
http://www.duratuff.com/products-grouser-bar.php I have used these before. they come pre beveled so you can start welding.
I can't see the dirt being all that abrasive, not much for sand or gravel in it. For hours, I would say at the VERY most 100 hours per year. Also got another quote for shoes that came in at 4500.00, still can't justify the cost. I should have really ordered the rails with the new shoes installed, would have saved a bunch of money... Thanks for the replies, i'll check out these grouser vendors.
What would be the grouser height from factory on a shoe like this? I found a chart shows 1.95" but that seems high..?
Might be able to look it up if I had your serial number Would also say that with only 100 hours a year, I would not mess with new shoes or grouser bars other then the master link. The worst thing that could happen is you snap off a bolt. Replaced everything with my 955 but I to maybe put 50 hours a year, so probably spent to much
1.50 new height yours are 90-100% worn. Bob
if you are not working it hard and a 100 hours a year I would not worry about it.
Union Tractor in Nisku sells grouser bar and I think the steel suppliers like C W Carry do as well. http://uniontractor.com/
More progress pictures, found the dirt!! What do you guys think of the rollers? Really tough getting decent pictures of them. What about that guard up front? There are 2 on each end of the track frame, what is their purpose?
Only see one double flange with any question it has the concave surface wear not all that bad, a few others appear to be recent replacements. The idler visible has been weld refaced and can still see the weld profile. As to the rock guard guide at the truck front, they will get serious wear, so long as Not sharpened like a axe leave it go. One note is the segments, already has some serious heel wear from pushing but have not ramped to a point, just keep an eye on bushing wear. Good help you have learning the trade!!
American Iron for my American Iron!! Just couldn't bring myself to bolt on those shoes at 100% worn, I know it would have been fine but couldn't do it... 156 Pieces of 3/4" X 1" Flatbar (18" long) for 630.00 Cad, let the welding adventure begin Preheat Temp? Welding Wire? Tips/Ideas? Thanks guys
I was going to suggest grouser stock. It is squatty diamond shaped sort of in cross section, high manganese. It welds nicely, but gets harder as it wears. Loggers on steep land use it even on new tracks to form lugs to prevent side slipping usually staggered, one, then two. Its main function is to renew worn grousers, but I also use it to refresh cutting edges on buckets. I've got a lifetime supply from an auction.
Enough heat to eliminate moisture 300F or more. No wire! 7018 stick 1/8", or Dualshield wire is good. If you aren't familiar with Dualshield I'll give the particulars. I would not trust MIG for this.
Most suppliers suggest 7018 or submerged arc wire weld.
You could use larger rods than 1/8". I'd probably use 3/16" but would only weld about 6" at a time and work on a few different shoes so they don't warp. Could experiment some to see if they are warping. Grouser bar has a natural bevel for penetration. You may have to bevel your flat bar or at least use a couple rod stubs at each end to get about 5/32" gap for penetration. Dual Shield flux-core (E71T-1/T-9) would work too. I think it would probably be best to weld them after they are bolted on but maybe bolting a couple back to back before welding would also help to control distortion. If welding when on the machine, move the ground clamp to each pad you're welding on. http://www.hobartbrothers.com/uploads/pdf/datasheets/FabCO_Excel_Arc71.pdf
I welded mine on the D8H with a 300amp wire welder. .045 wire and regular co2 and argon gas. worked great. haven't lost any bars yet. been at least 5 yrs. Used more than a 44lb roll of wire. Good time to show your helper to weld.
I have used 5/32 7018 but that goes on pretty slow and you have to keep stopping at the rods burn down. One rod won't go all the way across. I think dual shield would be the quickest but I have not had access to it back then. You will have to pay attention to cleanliness on the pad and bar. We always welded that stuff with the pads on the machine. We could do all of them on the flat that way. We would tack both sides of the pads hard all across the top. Then would do one over the idler then switch to one at the back of the sprocket. Years ago I was told that square rebar works good also but haven't tried it. I have seen it used for ice cleats on shovel loggers though and they would snap off. Then again so will the grouser bar over time in hard rock. Good Luck
Some pics on how the fit up will look I plan on using the flux core dual shield E-71, had excellent luck with it on the Idler rebuild. As always, thanks for the replies everyone!
I had a pile of 5/8 rerod I am going to stick on my old Allis shoes, going to mount two new bars to the old three bar shoes as is as bad as a hog on ice just slips horribly.
Your bars should have been slightly shorter so it's easier to weld around the ends but why not stand the bar with the 1" vertical. It will make for a larger fillet weld on each side. Another thing you could consider since you have a wire feeder is running some hardfacing across the top of your new bars. It would greatly extend the life over mild steel.
Could they be welded on the three bar shoes in a herring bone pattern, or a V pattern to simulate the effect of tractor tires. It'd eliminate slipping on ice, or clay, and be self cleaning. A caution; International removed the grouser shoes converting to three bar on loader tractors as grouser shoes tore up the ground too much, and if an operator didn't use his head, it'd take out final drives too. The IH 175 tractors were based on TD15. I was shocked at the difference in pushing power comparing the two tractors. There may have been other differences, but three bar well worn shoes are amazing how nicely they slip. I'm sure there are times three bar is very desirable. Turning sharply, three bar don't scoop as much gravel into the track chain. Here, loggers use on grouser shoes a pattern of two, then one short pieces of grouser stock set on top of the grouser. Shoes getting two, they are less than 1/3 the width of the shoe, and held 1/2" from the edge of the shoe. It utterly eliminates side slipping on ice. VT mountain land is steep. It is more common to not build road, only clear trees, and drive straight up the fall line. Forest managers prefer winter logging over non frozen ground. Willie
A lot of guys here will put D5 single grouser shoes on 953 and D6 single grouser on 963, hard on undercarriage with a full bucket swinging the load to put in a truck or move to a different position. Shoes have a cast in position for the grouser stock, trying to weld around the mounting bolts could raise some issues with warping to herringbone them. As noted a stagger like morse code would be an option on two or even three bar shoes. Many here when re-grouser loader shoes only do lead and tail positions even if had three bar shoes.
The wife is going to be some upset!! LOL Works great! No torch needed.... Just keep one in the oven @350 while i'm welding, always have a hot one ready to go.
Did you check if they warped?
Nice work!
so was there any butt chewing from the old lady?? Looks like it worked well!
Flat as they ever were, I think the preheat really helped with the warping.
Worked slick man!! Old lady was okay, I plan on keeping the old oven in the shop and get a new one for the house. WIN WIN lol
excellent idea, i think i'm going to have to source an oven for drying rods and preheating now!
SHHH! Don't let MY wife hear, her double ovens worked ALL TOO WELL for initial dry out on my bucket weld rods!! Once I get the shops cleaned up(working at that) and can get arranged some better I will locate a old oven and wire in the outlet in the tools side of the building.
Congrats on your new rails. Stay blessed sir.
I know it's been a while... Assembly started. Welding took WAY longer than anticipated.
Nice work
I assume you buffed/sanded the paint off the rails. It's also important to get the right torque on the bolts. The torque turn method is the best way instead of just using an impact wrench.
Hey with all that welding wonder how your electric bill is going
Would pull them down with an impact alternating pattern then hit with a common low torque to set the shoe, then follow the torque turn method. Always cleaned the rail faces, only tried ONCE to install shoes dirty, that did not end well.
Power bill is usually around 275/month, the highest it got up to when I was welding heavy was 317.00.
I'm curious on the torque turn method, can someone explain in more detail? Also what is the recommended torque for these bolts? Thanks!
Here's the Cat undercarriage guide. 977 is 220ft./lbs +- 40 then an additional 1/3rd turn. You need a paint pen or some type of marker to mark the bolts so you can tell how much 1/3rd of a turn is. See pg. 14 of the guide below. Bolts also should have anti-seize applied. https://www.barloworld-equipment.com/media/1177918/pegp5027-06.pdf
One third of a turn is two flats. Just mark a corner of the bolt head and then a point of the pad two flats ahead where is should stop. 220 foot pounds though seems like a lot for that size. I recall doing 220 on D8 pads.
D8 with 1" bolts is 250ft./lbs. +- 50 according to the link I posted.
Welding sure can take some time indeed. Not in this case but it sure can be decreased. As far as I know, couplings can be connected by mechanical pressing. Well, yeah, a little off-top but a tip for the future. There's also less environmental impact with using the hydraulic pressing system. I used it for building me a little backyard barn. Hope the hydraulic pad connection way will be created by http://hardman-de.com soon enough.
Last one.... Geeeez that didn't take long at all! Both sides now complete.
Just have to cut the ends of the grousers at 45 deg's.
Wonder why, my new pads were not angled. Guess if there are sharp corners, maybe take a grinder to them or run them on some rock for a little bit
It makes turning easier but they could get rounded off fairly quick.