Going to be purchasing new batteries for the dozer, and backhoe tractor soon as they are aging out. Both machines use the old 4D series starting batteries and a quantity of three in total are needed. The old backhoe is 12VDC and the dozer is 24VDC. Both tractors start easily not enduring a long crank cycle, and are not electronics laden so considering installing group 31P batteries rather than the original style which are much larger and heavier. Lot less $$$ also in comparison. Both tractors would require a hold down bracket to be fashioned but that's really not an issue. Any reasons you guys can think of why I should stay with the older style batteries other than an extended reserve capacity they offer? The old style really don't offer any other benefits that I would use. They are higher in cranking amperage ratings but again, both engines really start easily and are not used in the severe cold. Nothing wrong with the batteries currently in service except age so want to get them replaced/expensed this quarter and repurpose the originals. Thanks,
The last 4D I had around blew it's top, so I had a good view of the guts, lots of that space was taken up with spacers on the sides and the lead plates were no bigger than what you find filling the case of a 31T. I don't think it was a cheap brand either. The 4D may have thicker plates and higher amp hour ratings also, but amp hours is rarely a factor. I'd get the 31T with 700 or 750CCA over the 900-1,000, for the thicker plates, hopefully to last more than a few years.
We have switched our Euclid C-6 dozer with good success to 2 group 31’s. Here in Canada 2 of the large 4D’s would have been $600. Group 31’s are regularly $98 (were 89$ when I switched 2 years ago) at the local International dealer. It was a bit of an experiment; I thought perhaps a temporary measure as the old 6-71 is a bit “tired” and sometimes takes a fair bit of cranking…however the 31’s have worked perfectly for 2 years now. The dozer winters at 6500’ elevation from November to April. Last April no charging fired right up…. Keep in mind this machine has no electrical system to speak of, not even lights! It uses a generator for charging.
You guys are on the same page as I. No real electrical system to be concerned with and really no need for the extra cranking amps. I have recently upgraded the alternator from a 20A external regulated Delco 10DN, to a much more modern 26SI Delco at 75A output. Wiring is loomed in the old thick sleeving and very hard from age, but it will be pulled and the complete machine rewired over the winter months once indoors.
A reason the 4D's could be preferred is to act as counterweight.
Counterweight is a possibility but once my winch is installed it should be offset well. I want to say from memory the group 31 batteries are about 60 pounds lighter for the pair. Those 4D batteries are too heavy to install or remove by oneself without a machine to assist.
In the past I had to wrestle an 8D out of my 931B track loader with the backhoe installed by myself. Had to remove the seat and it's mounting frame and then there was a lip on the back panel preventing the battery to come up. I couldn't remove the back panel because the backhoe was attached. I had to tilt the battery forward and wrestle it out. It was a huge PIA. I later cut slots in the back panel so it could be removed with the back hoe attached. I also leave the bolts out that hold the top cover on. they're a bit of a pain to remove with the hoe on too. Thankfully I've had the batteries last 10 and 7 years and just put one in a couple years ago.
Batteries in the dozer are only accessible with the cover opened as they sit in a compartment. In the photo they are behind the "11-B" stencil on the machine. You have to stand on the track to lift them straight up and out. The grouser bars won't allow your feet to spin so no real way to turn while holding the weight, and certainly no place to set the wet cell down. Basically asking for a trip to the emergency room handling these by oneself in their mounted position. Prior owner removed them in the winters while tractor was stored and kept them on a float charger in his heated garage over the cold months. He used the end loader on a utility tractor with an assistant. They are vintage 2017 still having service life and will be repurposed around the shop. I have an old IH semi tractor used as a yard horse with a large battery tray one will be used in. It starts fairly well on a single group 31 so one of these should light it off acceptably well. That truck has a 6V-92TA Detroit engine and is very reliable but the cab is broken up badly, and suspension both front and rear is beaten out of it, so good only for the purpose I keep it around for.
Best thing about 31's is you can customize the arrangement for starting and reserve capacity by mixing up the batteries. They are also more common do you have way more choices. Used to have two strokes on 4D's and now we have them on 3 31's and they start better like that.
Went online this morning and looks like I'm going to stay with the 4D series replacements. As it shakes out the vendor has this size on sale and can be purchased for less $$$ than a pair of 31P, or 31T series batteries. I'm not sending core batteries so that plays into the equation too. I won't be removing them for storage as have a tractor mounted 24VDC charger/maintainer to mount into the battery box, and a weatherproof electrical "inlet" an extension cord will plug into. Also going to get a pair of 31P series for another of my trucks as those too are flat from age. Tiring of the robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario with battery swapping to move, or use a truck.
I don't know if it matters, but those batteries on sale may be quite old. I was going to but two trolling motor batteries that were on sale. One had a manufacturing date that was two years old. I didn't buy them from that vendor.
I agree and will be checking that before actually placing the order. Going to call the local store and have the manufacture date verified prior to purchase. Thanks,
Called over and one 4D battery they have on the self is 9/23, and the other two are 10/23 manufacturing dates, (according to the stickers). Headed over in a bit to pick them up as I'm out of their delivery area. I went ahead and made purchase so they won't get away. I neglected to ask about the 31P batteries however but will look when there. I have group 31 cores, and will pay a core charge for the 4D series. I can always get that back with a receipt should the need arise.