Hi guys, I joined up after reading a couple threads. Please excuse me, I am pretty good with cars and trucks but never learned anything about Hydro systems. So- My 580 ck will bleed down while the bucket is up. It will do it while it is running, and when it is off. I have a couple leaks, but it will do this when the rams are leaking, and when they will not. Is this really just the cylinders need to be repacked, or is it something else? How can I tell?
onlyn8v, Welcome to our special kind of insanity... Lots of good reading here and many of the pros who keep the rest of us out of too much trouble. Post up pics of your machine, so we can see what you are working on. It could also help someone else who is working on the same issues in the future, as many search the site for useful posts. The hydraulics on these machines are pretty simple. Reservoir, pump, lines and hoses, valves and cylinders. Leaks in any part will cause what you are experiencing. Worn packings, O rings in valves and all the other parts are serviceable. You need to isolate the issue first. I would suggest that if you don't have a Service Manual already, that it is worth getting. The Parts book is also useful to view how and where all the pieces go together. On the Case website, you can find the parts manual but a paper copy is easier to study. From my limited experience, you will likely have worn packings and that may be the best place to start. If you are able to do the work yourself, parts are available from the usual sources, including Case dealers, some of the aftermarket dealers often referenced here and from any hydraulics shop. A manual will give you procedures for disassembly, inspection and reassembly. Torques on rod nuts are important and a wrench for the gland nut is likely required rather than using a punch and BFH. A few more details on the specific symptoms and a picture would help. Others will get on here with more detailed help, as this is a great place for the kind of advice you are seeking.
Right now, this is the best picture I have. Its either a 66 or 67.
Posted Picture
Thank you, It is a shuttle shift, with a diesel
Only welcome to the site nice looking rig you got there for them to drift with it not running is normal but with it running is wrong .......Like jusk has said it could be a lot of things but i think the lesser of all evils are to check the packings in the lift cylinders and check for any dings or dents on the outside diameter of one of the cylinders if one of them have been dinged bad enough it could be it has wore the piston causing the bypass in the bore of the cylinder......Another thing that could cause this is the nut or bolt that holds the piston on the rod if it has come loose oil will bypass there and it will drift down.....You will need to tear the cylinders down to know for sure i usually just take the gland end pin out and remove the gland nut and just pull the rod and piston out leaving the bore on the tractor unless of course the bores messed up...... I have never done this myself but i read where guys would get the oil up to temp and work the suspect cylinder and if its bypassing internially it will be hotter to the touch than other cylinders that are good might be worth trying ??????????? Also like jusk says were picture junkies on here they help tell the story and help others who are having the same issues so when you tear into her post some pics if you can they are very helpfull it does get entertaining on here at times but it helps to take away some of the pain of maintaining these old girls......Hope to hear more from you.....
Im going to have to get to work on repacking the cylinders I suppose. Ive watched several videos and it doesn't seem impossible, but the spanner wrench to get the gland nut off and pulling the piston out of the cylinder looks like its going to be a good time
only....if you go to pages 8 and 9 of this thread you will see some homemade and ebay gland nut wrenches theres also some good stuff on the whole thread about the ck's To be honest there not that bad to do it for yourself and you will save a lot..... Its well worth investing in a gland nut wrench and you can be assured you will need it later .....The biggest thing is the mess from the oil it wont take long to become a member of the oil bath brotherhood hahahah..... Sometimes those rods can be a challenge to pull out of the bore but they will pull out with enough persuasion and you will want a good impact wrench or a good size socket set 1/2" drive to remove the piston nut/bolt ....A lot of times you can buy the seals and packings on ebay for the individual cylinders cheaper than a hyd shop..... Good luck and if you have any questions fire away someone will respond..... Heres that thread HeavyEquipmentForums
Its very do-able if you have a good vise..and an impact gun.. the kit only costs about 35-40 bucks from EPS.. Like the others have said.. your gonna get wet.. so have a bag of kitty litter at the ready for the mess.. and theres some good utube videos on how to do it..
A good sturdy vise is the key. Those nuts are on there good.
a multi pack of turkey roaster pans for oil catch then pour oil thru shirt over a 5 gal bucket reuse oil untill you know for sure your done opening lines / i wasted alot of good oil / refilling with new oil just to open something else up unless your oil smell like a gas station bathroom and dark as coffee. crow foot wrenches saved me alot of headache make some plugs out of pointy soft wood dowels some hoses i pulled wont stop dripping till i got the part repaired i snapped 2 1 1/2 sockets so far , split right in half and pulled my groin when it did / ouch don't work on the dirt ,asphalt lay out an old carpet all the clumps of grease /waste debris dont end up staining the whole driveway . then the wife be bitchen . heat up the nuts before you try to open is good research here before you do anything . lots of tips on the forum
This is the worst one. After work last night, I lifted the bucket up to stop and this one is puking. The edges of the nut are pretty bad. So bad in fact that I think I may need to weld a bar onto the nut to get it off. The lift cylinder for this side also leaks, just not as often. The catch with this one is the shaft has alot of pitting, I may be able to get some out but it may be a problem anyway
only, It looks like someone used a chisel to try and remove that nut. Check out post #129 on the thread - Thread: Case 580 CK rear differential way overfull why? There are some pics of different tools to remove that nut. xpack posted a link to another thread in there that might be helpful, too. Don't forget the set screw. You can usually just use some fine emery cloth or scotchbrite pads on those pits. wet sand with some hyd. oil and just make it smooth to the touch so it doesn't wreck the seal. Don't try to remove all trace or you might go deeper than necessary. Keeping the pistons retracted or using the machine will keep them from rusting.
only.....Like Grad has said check out those gland nut wrenches there only like $50.00 from ebay and well worth having in your set of tools ......My first choice is always to use the gland nut wrench but on some of those people have used punches in the holes where the pins on the wrenches are supposed to go and they screw up the holes so the wrench will slip on them ..When i have run into that i get a pipe wrench and hook it on the edge of the gland nut with a cheater pipe if necessary to break them loose and that usually gets them.....I would try to keep the welding and heat as a last resort...... Heres that other thread that Grady is talking about...... HeavyEquipmentForums
only, It looks like the last guy used the BFH on your gland nut. That kind of abuse can distort the shape and cause issues on its own. Grady and xpack are right on with the proper tools for the job. You may need to do something as you suggested to get it off, but then you will be able to repair or replace the gland nut so that if there is a next time, its easy. I have a tilt cylinder on mine that needs a new rod due to some serious scoring. If yours is decent, you shouldn't have any problems or just polish out the minor defects so there are no sharp edges. In the past, they used to re-chrome these but if gone too far, a new rod is the answer.
My experience..... follow the willie59 advice mentioned above in Post #14 and peen around the gland nut diameter a few times as shown in 2009 posting. 1) Get yourself some caps and plugs and take cylinder assembly off tractor 2) Put cyl on bench and start the rotating and peening, you will hear a change in the sound of the hammering when its freed up. it may take a dozen times around. 3) place back on tractor or good vise and use the OTC spanner wrench. If needed knock down the high spots on the gland nut with a file so the spanner wrench sits square, protect the chrome rod. It will come off so easy. No cheater bar. Don't forget set screw. 4) Once you have the gland loose and out take plug or caps off. use a come along if needed to pull out rod assembly. Yes its messy 5) Place rod assembly back on tractor to hold and remove the nut (six point socket only, no harbor freight stuff) You may need to use wood blocks (2 x4's) to protect the chrome rod. Do not use heat, I've torn up threads doing that. Do not use brute force, I've broken the pins in my OTC spanner wrench when using a six foot cheater bar. Since reading this forum the willie59 suggestion saved me many times! Good luck
x2 on Willies posts..
I have done same but have someone put pressure on the gland tool while i smack the hell out of it with a smaller dead blow. Best way to check if cylinder packing is to suck the cylinder in as far as it will go, remove the base end hose and operate the function, if oil gushes out the packing is leaking, there a cleaner way also that you have someone run the cylinder to it end stroke and dead head it, then feel around the barrel closest to where the piston inside the cylinder sits and see if you can feel any " hot spots" on the barrel. Forcing oil through a restriction creates a ton of heat so you should be able to feel a " hotspot" where the oil is by passing the packing internally.