I have a Case 650K, 2004, that have a fault code "no can". I change the cluster harness but the fault continue. I don't know which the next harness that I need to check. The dozer not run and the cluster is in 0
Lots of possibilities. Does the machine still drive? Is the machine a series 1 or 2? I would start by checking the "CAN" resistance. Check the 9 pin deutsch diagnostic connector pin c to d. Should have 120 ohms. Refer to the following threads. They are for series 2 machines, but will be similar to series 1 machines. HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums 9 pin deutsch connector, is located in the battery box looks like this: http://ftp1.digi.com/support/documentation/html/90001930/90001930_D/images/WVA-pinout.png
C to d 126 ohm. For more information, the machine not run and the ligth of transmission is yellow
A @ d 1.17v and a @ c 1.17v a @ b 12.67v
Gary, I see the link that you send me. But have more information and steps not clearly to me. Please, review the lectures that I send you. Thanks for be patient and help
I would start by checking all of the fuses in the battery box. Replace any that are corroded.The "can"resistor is ok at 126 ohms. Since the "can high" and "can low" are equal, a controller is offline. Unplug one at a time, and recheck the can voltages from c to d. There is 3 controllers. Joystick, the dash and the travel controller. You need 2 at a time plugged in for the above test.
Hi Gary. When you said "travel controller", do you refer the microcomputer? Thank a lot
The travel controller, or drive train controller, is located under the left side in the cab. It can be accessed from the battery box as well. Check voltages from d to ground, and c to ground. Also, is the machine a series 1 or a series 2? If its a series 2 machine there will be a decal that says "series 2" on the side doors. If its a series 1 machine, there will be no decal on the side doors.
This test is just a more detailed way to describe the one from above: Unplug the Left joystick. Turn the key on, and at the 9 pin deutsch connector check power from pin A and C. Then check power from pins A and D. Plug back in the left joystick Unplug the travel controller. Turn the key on, and at the 9 pin deutsch connector check power from pin A and C. Then check power from pins A and D. Plug back in the travel controller. Unplug the dash display. Turn the key on, and at the 9 pin deutsch connector check power from pin A and C. Then check power from pins A and D. Plug back in the dash display.
The machine is series1. I will do the test tomorow. Thanks!!
Gary, This is the results of the tests that you sent me. I want to give other information, which may serve, before the machine stopped moving the gauge that marked fuel always is full. Today I realized that also the water temperature gauge is damaged. I am sending photos of this. but here the results: Left Joystick A to C=-2.91V A to D=-1.49V Travel Controler A to C=-2.93V A to D=-1.51V Dash(Cluster) A to C=-0.00V A to D=0.00V I am waiting for you help.
Gary, This is the results of the tests that you sent me. I want to give other information, which may serve, before the machine stopped moving the gauge that marked fuel always is full. Today I realized that also the water temperature gauge is damaged. I am sending photos of this. but here the results: Left Joystick A to C=-2.91V A to D=-1.49V Travel Controler A to C=-2.93V A to D=-1.51V Dash(Cluster) A to C=-0.00V A to D=0.00V I am waiting for you help.
Your tests suggest the travel controller and joystick is not coming on. Please repeat the above tests, this time make sure to have the safety levers down. Is there any other faults codes? Perform the following tests as well please: Unplug all the controllers. 1. Plug in the Travel controller. Turn the key on, and at the 9 pin deutsch connector check power from pin A and C. Then check power from pins A and D. Unplug the travel controller. 2. Plug in the Left joystick. Turn the key on, and at the 9 pin deutsch connector check power from pin A and C. Then check power from pins A and D. Unplug the left joystick. 3. Plug in the dash display. Turn the key on, and at the 9 pin deutsch connector check power from pin A and C. Then check power from pins A and D. Plug in all the controllers again. ***************************************************************************************** Power tests: 4. At the Travel controller, check resistance from pins 26 to 27. Should be 126ohms. (key off) 5. At the travel controller, check for power to pins 1, 2, 7, and 28. Should have 12volts at each, with key on, safety levers down. 6. At the joystick, check resistance from pins 3 to 4. Should be 126 ohms. Key off. 7. At the joystick, check for power at pins 1, and 5. Should have 12 volts at each, with key on, safety levers down.
The results that I sent last week was made with the safety level down and the only fault code is NO CAN. RESULTS X5 CONNECTOR: *Pin 30 and 23=21.35V *Pin 23 to 29=116.3 Ohms *Pin 1 and 28=.37 (key on and safety lever down) I am not sure is the test is individual or 1 to 28. Please let me know to repeat the test. UNPLUG ALL CONTROLLERS TEST *Power controller plug in A@C=.00 A@D=.00 *Joystick plug in [email protected] A@D=.00 *Cluster plug in A@C=3.19 A@D=1.77 I didn't make the Power test because I don't see the numbers in the travel controller plug harness. Please send me some picture about this. Until now do you have any idea what is the problem? I am very desperate Thanks for your assistance!!!
The results that I sent last week was made with the safety level down and the only fault code is NO CAN. RESULTS X5 CONNECTOR: *Pin 30 and 23=21.35V *Pin 23 to 29=116.3 Ohms *Pin 1 and 28=.37 (key on and safety lever down) I am not sure is the test is individual or 1 to 28. Please let me know to repeat the test. UNPLUG ALL CONTROLLERS TEST *Power controller plug in A@C=.00 A@D=.00 *Joystick plug in [email protected] A@D=.00 *Cluster plug in A@C=3.19 A@D=1.77 I didn't make the Power test because I don't see the numbers in the travel controller plug harness. Please send me some picture about this. Until now do you have any idea what is the problem? I am very desperate Thanks for your assistance!!!
Hi Gary, Please I need your help as soon as possible. Thank you
As of right now, the transmission controller and the joystick are not online. This could be a wiring issue, or controller issue. Why are you getting 21.35 volts for power? What is your battery voltage?
This is the connector at the transmission controller. Please check power at 1, 2, 7, and 28, key on and safety levers down. Check resistance from pin 26 to 27. Key off. (With your multi-meter put one lead on pin 26, and the other lead on pin 27)
View attachment 152571 This is the joystick connector. Please check power at pins 1, and 5. Check resistance from pins 3 to 4. (with your multi-meter put one lead on pin 3, and the other lead on pin 4)
Joystick connector
I can not open the attachment. Can you send again? Thanks
First, the 21.35 V was a typing, must be read 12.32V Results *Travel controller 26 to 27=126 Ohms *Travel Controller safety lock down Pin 1=4.5v, pin 2=4.43v, pin 7=.75v, pin 28=4.12v Important Note: The lectures was not stables, going up and going down and lost the lectures when I move the wire harness. *Joystick, lock down pin 3 to 4=116 Ohms and lost the lectures when I move the harness *Joystick, key on and lock down pin 1 and 5=0.00 V and lost the lectures when I move the harness What do you think? controller wire harness open or bad? Do you think that I re check the relays? and wish one? Thanks Gary
Your issue is low power to the controllers. My recommendation is to remove all the fuses in the battery box, and just change them all. They are very prone to corrosion. Also remove and inspect the relays for corrosion. To test the relays, just switch them one at a time to the start circuit, and see if the machine still starts. Or you could also put them one at a time into the light circuit, and see if the lights still turn on. I will get you more exact checks to make shortly.
ok. I'll do that in the morning. But why when I move the wires I lose my current reading? Thank you!!
Thank you. I will tell you the results tomorrow
I'm not sure why you are loosing your readings when you move the wires. It may be that you are just not making good contact while you are moving the wires and trying to take a reading. First check is at relay 8. Remove relay and put jumper wire from pins 30 to 87. Re-check for powers from message 23. Relay 8 supplies power to fuse 6, 7, and 8.
I have been following these posts on Case dozers. Just a question , would dielectric grease help prevent corrosion on the fuses? Or is there another compound that you could use.
Dielectric grease helps, but is not the solution. The fuse panel is too much out in the open. It would have to be in a sealed box or in the cab to make a difference. That's why they went to a fully sealed fuse box in the series 3 machines. Much less fuse corrosion that way. Dielectric grease can also cause issues too. Case used a black tar like dielectric grease from factory. This stuff would sometimes cause the connections not to make contact at the fuses and relays.
I re check and scrape all the fuses. Then I re check the relay 8 and test it. The sound clip was not convincing so I decided to change with relay 12. When I Turn on the switch key the cluster begun to operated, the bump up and down switch are in function but the light parking is on (red). Also the machine does not turn through the key, I have to jump in the starter. I check the sensors brake levers on the right side and the green bulb lights is the only on whether the lever is up or down. The left brake levers lights are ok, green when the lever is up and orange when is down. If you have others recommendations about the brake light and the starter. I really appreciate your help. We are very close to put the machine on work. Thank you!!
The brake lever lights should work as the left side does. Either the sensor is out of adjustment or it has failed. The sensor should be within a 1/16" of the lever. It is likely that relay 8 has failed. Relay 12 is in the starting circuit, so try switching it with another relay.
I remove all fuses, and clean all contacts of the fuse box and insert new fuses. Also made the same procedure with the relays. The I proved the electrical part of brakes solenoid valve: 1. I made a jumper to test whether the piece will work the magneto. This test went well 2. I Tested the ohms of the magneto=11.5 Ohms The problem persist. About the starter, don't have chages. Don't start with the Key
So did you get the park brake to release?
I think your no start and the park brake not releasing is related to your safety levers. 12 - START IGNITION RELAY 6 - HANDLE NEUTRAL OK RELAY 10 - NEUTRAL OK RELAY (SAFETY LEVERS) From key switch, 12v power is sent to pin 30, of relay 12, and out pin 87a to wire 21G. From wire 21G power then goes to relay 6, pin 87a, and out pin 30 to wire 21A From wire 21A power goes to 100 amp solenoid pin E. Power from 100 amp solenoid goes to the starter. Recommended tests are as follow: 1.) At relay 10, jump pins 30 to 87a. Try and start unit. If no start, continue to next step. 2.) At relay 12, jump pins 30 to 87a. At relay 6, jump pins 30 to 87a. Try and start unit. If it doesn't start perform following tests. 3.) Remove relay 12, test pin 30 for power when key is in crank position. Should have 12v. If there is power re-install the relay. If no power, problem is between that relay and the key switch. 4.) Remove relay 6, test for power at pin 87a when key is in crank position. Should have 12v. If no power, problem is between relay 6, and 12.
I realized the jump test in the relays plugs 10,12 and 6 and the machine begun to start with the key switch. Then I begun a replaced the jumpers with the relays one by one to determinate that the problem was in the relay plug 6. I was confused because when I replace the jumper 6 with the relay the machine didn't start. When I re checked more closely I can saw that the pin 87 in the relay plug 6 was broken or open. This produce bad contact. (see photos) About the brake light, that is still on and the machine don't move Thanks!
So you have the starting issue figured out? In regards to the park light not coming off: Did you replace/repair the safety lever? Is there any fault codes active now?
Yes, the starting issue is resolved. I only need to fix the pinl 87 in the relay plug 6. About the safety lever, the issue persist and the machine dont move. The machine dont have code active.
Right now, the only issue that the machine have is the brake light
You should check your right brake lever sensor (proximity switch). Its light needs to change color when you move the safety lever down. A quick check of the sensor is to put something metal in front of it (a bolt or a washer), and the sensor should light up orange. If it doesn't change light color, then switch the sensors. You may have a bad sensor. If you need to move the machine, after you start the machine, jump relay 10, pin 30 to 87a.
I made a jumper in the relay 10, The machine didn't moved. In the relays plugs 2,6 and 10 the pin 30 was the only pin that had 12V. In these relays its suppose to have 12V in the pins 86. Also I disconnected the brake solenoid plug and I made a jumper directly to a battery but the machine didn't moved. I think that the machine have a electrical problem in the fuse and relays box. What do you think? next test? Thank you for your patient. At this point your assistance has been invaluable. Thanks
At the transmission controller please check power at 1, 2, 7, and 28, key on and safety levers down. If you don't have 12v at all these pins, jump relay 10. The machine will not move if you just send power to the brake solenoid. The controller has to have the following inputs, lever neutral, brake pedal, and engine speed before it lets you move. Does the dash show F, N, R when you move the direction lever? Try pushing on the brake pedal, the try to drive. Pin 30 is the power in pin. The 87 and 87a are switched powers.
All my issues end. I replaced the wire motor harness(included the fuse and relays box) Puff $2,500.00 but the machine was begun to move. I think that the contact in the boxes was corroded by the time and dust and maybe some wire was damage. So see my experience like an example. Don't waste time in little things. Anyway, I learned a lot with Gary and testing helped me realize that the problem was the fuse and relays box. I was trying to save money, but since I had to finish it Thanks, Thanks, Thanks for your time Gary
So they are doing it differently than trucks then? CAN bus resistance should be 60 ohms shouldn't it? Two 120 ohm terminating resistors so checking at the 9 pin should give you a 60 ohm reading. Been awhile since I've done any CAN bus problems but I though for sure it was 60... Or are they doing it differently in the heavy duty world?
CAN resistance will vary based on how many terminating resistors are in the circuit. Some circuits have 4 resistors which would yield 30ohms CAN resistance. 60ohms CAN resistance would mean there is 2 resistors. For this specific machine there is only one resistor, so the CAN resistance is 120ohms. So unless you know how many resistors are in the circuit, you may not get meaningful readings.
I recently replace the engine wire harness of Case 650k, series I. The relays and fuses are new. The machine not starter with the Key. I check the red wire in the starter and have 12V, but the white wire not have signal when I started with the key. I re check all harness and connector and are ok. To start the I have to jump the starter. Thanks
See post 35, and advise on results.
This machine make me crazy. I made the jumper in 6,7 and 12 relays at the same time and the machine cranked on the third attempt. When off, it did not crank again. I don't know what happens, the wire harness, the relays and fuses connectors is new.
more information Gary,I think that we must forget the previous post and to begin from zero with the new facts that now we have. Of this form, probably be more simply for my because I don't understand why I have this failure even if the wire is new. The new facts: 1. The engine wire harness are new 2. The fuses and relays are new 3. The machine does not crank with the key switch (the injection pump solenoid neither) 4. no fault codes Note: When I start the machine with the starter jump, it works very well. I send a photo of the 100 amp relays in order that you check if the cables are combined well 5. The cluster and dash harness are new. Do you recommend that it should check the key switch? Thaks
Wires appear to be correct in the picture. Does the engine start if you put power to the white wires at the solenoids? With key in crank position, do you have power at pin 30 at the start ignition relay?
Yes, the engine start when I put power in the starter white wire. The pin 30 has power when I crank the motor, but the pin 85 does not have power when the swicth is in on position. The pin 85 or 86 is suppose to has power in on position.
That's ok. Its not suppose to have power at pin 85 or 86. Do the following: At HANDLE NEUTRAL OK RELAY, jump pins 30 to 87a. See if unit starts with key switch. If no start, continue to next step. At START IGNITION RELAY, jump pins 30 to 87a. See if unit starts with key switch. Advise on results.
I did a jumper in neutral ok relay and the machine did'nt crank. When I did the same jump in the start ignition relay the machine crank, but only when I moved the stick foward at the injection pump. So I think: 1. The machine does not has power in the pins 85 and 86 to activate the relay 2. The injection pump selenoid does not has power when I do the crank. 3. But insist, these wire harness is new. I am waiting for next instructions or recomendation. Thanks.
I did a jumper in the neutral ok relay but the machine did'nt crank. I did the same jump in the start ignition relay and the machine begun to crank, but only when I move foward the stick of the injection pump selenoid. I am tinking: 1. The pins 85 and 86 does not has power to actvivate the relay (why) 2. The injection pump selenoid does not has power when the machine does the crank. I am waiting for instructions or next steps. Thanks
So if you move the directional control lever forwards or reverse, does the machine start? The START IGNITION RELAY is controlled only by the directional control lever, and will prevent starting if the lever is forwards or reverse. At the START IGNITION RELAY check for power at pin 86 (wire 21), There should only be power there when the directional control lever is not in neutral. Make sure the relay is wired correctly. Remove the relay and take a picture please.
When I mention the stick I do not mean the joystick or Directional control, I refer to the injection pump solenoid. I forgot to tell you that the machine had this failure before the failure of "no can". Anyway, I'm going to test you sent.
Test results: 1. Key on, directional control in neutral, pin 86= 0 Volt (Pin 30=0 V) 2. Key on, directional control in forward, pin 86= 12V (Pin 30=12V) Please see this pictures: I send you both to compare
It would appear that your new harness has a mixed up wire. It should be wired the same. I would move wire 21G to the correct place. For your reference, the correct wiring should be: pin 86 on the relay should have wire 21 pin 85 on the relay should have wire 0 ground pin 30 on the relay should have wire 907 pin 87a on the relay should have wire 21G pin 87 on the relay has no wire
I made the changes in the wiring possition. Finally, the machine start crank with the key switch. Thank you Gary for your advise.
Good to hear its working. Thanks for the reply.