Since nobody talks about lifts i guess i will! I have a Gehl 1155 telehandeler and it has trouble retracting the boom when it is close to parallel with the ground. My assumption is the Valve (something or another i cant think of the name) mounted on the side of the extend retract cylinder. What is your take on that. Seems like all my mechanic problems are answered right away and are always right! So i figured i would try again
Do you mean a DL11-55? Haven't had the boom cyl out of a DL, pulled them out of 663's though, doubt they're much different. Are your boom sections straight, not bent excessively? Are your wear pads allowing too much droop in the extended boom? Both of these can get the cylinder in a bind when it's extended causing problems retracting boom.
Yes it is. the cylinder i am referring to is mounted on top of the main boom section (mine is the lowprofile version) there is a valve (?) screwed into the top of the cylinder barrel about a third of the way back
Wow, haven't seen one of them. Any valve body mounted on the telescope cylinder would be the holding valve. Don't know much about this machine, the valve body could even have a regeneration valve in it, that's a big maybe. Are you saying the telescope cyl is outside of the boom? If so, have you checked for excessive boom deflection causing cylinder bind? Pics of this would be cool as I have no experience with this model.
I will get a pic tomorrow. the cylinder does the same thing as the cylinder mounted to the bottom of the boom of a lull 10000 lb lift. The "valve" is about 2" tall and 2" in diameter. if i remember right it has a nut on the top
If your describing a single valve, like a single cartridge valve, it sounds like a holding valve for the telescope cylinder. If it's a single cartridge holding valve for the telescope cylinder, not a counterbalance or crossover relief, about the only things that would cause that valve to affect boom retraction is valve is defective or it has failed o-ring seals for the pilot control portion of the valve that unlocks the valve during boom retraction. I wouldn't hestitate to pluck the cartridge out and check the o-rings and backup rings, I've seen plenty of failures of o-rings and backup rings on this type of valve.
I forgot to mention that if you set the forks on the ground it will retract slowly. I checked the booms for being bent and couldnt find anything noticable. How would you tell the wear pads werent in the right place
hmm, set forks on ground and relieve weight on boom and it retracts slowly. Interesting. The wear pads? You just want to make sure you don't have wear pads that are worn to the point of making excessive boom droop when extended. If you have boom extended, boom sections are not bent, and the sections don't have abrupt nose dives from extended sections (from worn pads), then your pads are Ok. When the boom is extended and horizontal, it's not going to be totally straight, it will droop, but not excessively. Pluck that holding valve cartridge out and check the o-rings. If you have failed o-rings, it will be obvious. We'll start with that.
Checked the holding valve and it looked good. I noticed that if you bounced the boom it would retract easier. I called Gehl and they said that this being a 4 section boom it may not want to retract being fully extended and horizontal (what kind of crap is that!) also they said to check the relief pressure and it should be 3300psi. SO i will do that over the weekend. Seems to me if its binding somehow. I cant find anything visual to see a tweek in the booms. How do you tell if the wear pads are bad or causing a problem? This machine only has 600hrs on it so it would supprise me if the pads were bad.
Ok, you contacted Gehl, they said it being a four section boom it "may" have a hard time retracting near horizontal. Wait a minute..."may"? You built the thing, will it or will it not have a hard time retracting...what's this "may" stuff? :beatsme I can see where it's possible for it to be difficult retracting. Three telescoping sections stretched out does create considerable friction. Then again, build the darn thing heavy enough to suck the boom in for pete's sake! I mean, a JLG 80HX doesn't have any problem retracting 80 feet of boom flat out. Do we have an inadequate design here? That's what bugs me about that "may" response. How are we supposed to know what it is "designed" to do with a "may" response? :Banghead For sure, check the pressure by tee-ing into the lines, right at the cylinder if possible, and make sure the pressure is at spec. Do you have a hyd schematic for the machine? Since Gehl is of little help, we really need to see what type of valving they have at the telescope cyinder, such as, is it using crossover reliefs or just internal pilot operated holding valves. This info is invaluable in troubleshooting something like this. :yup
Tell them if you only needed to retract it when up gravity would do it! You should have told them they should label the machines when in the showroom DO NOT RETRACT BOOM WHEN LEVEL ointhead I would call back and ask a bit up the chain there to see if they give you the same answer. Also ask them if the boom designer is still employed there.:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead Does it just happen when loaded?
NO, when unloaded. Isnt that about the stupidest thing you ever heard? I actually didnt speak to them, my dealer did. He thought the same thing. I told the dealer that if thats the case it will be for sale tomorrow
Obviously the force to retract a boom is greatest at horizontal, but it is also worse with worn pads due to the angles. I would check the boom boxes for gouging, pad material being transferred onto the box sections, or paint migration/galling - all bad. The upper rear pads are the most critical. Also check the side pads, but they are probably OK. There is no problem with shimming them too tight unless they start to bind. Just have someone run the boom in/out while you watch the gap. And I second the recommendation to check the relief pressure. You might also try greasing the pads, but this is a catch 22 as the grease will attack and hold onto dirt. A dry lubricant would be best but I don't know how you get it 15ft inside the boxes! At Lull we messed around with putting two little holes in the top of the boom box. You could then extend the boom, lower the forks to the ground, and pump a bunch of grease on top of the rear upper pads. The cartridge on the extend cylinder is almost certainly a counterbalance valve. Could also be a pilot operated check. In either case I doubt it is the problem since it tends to either chatter or stick. To create your problem it would need increased spring force without sticking, which is very unlikely. As far as Gehl goes I am not very impressed with their machines, except maybe the RS5-19. They haven't change much in the past 15yrs. But I will say they do use a lot of iron, but that doesn't always prevent issues from happening. ISZ
How do you check the rear top pads?
Should be able to view rear pads by removing the cover on rear of boom with boom retracted.
Rented one of these things for a month. I was supposed to rent a 8000 lb machine but they didn't have one. The machine came equipped with solid rubber tires, so it was a good thing it had the reach because I couldn't get close to the building because the machine kept sinking out of sight. I had the exact same problem with the boom, it did come back but very slowly with a lot of right pedal. The other thing I noticed was that it was very slow (about as fast as my manitou hydrostatic in turtle gear aka 2 of 4) in high gear when I tried to road it. It was also poor on fuel economy @ 15hrs to 110 litres whatever that is in gallons. My perkins uses about 24 hours to 115 litres. Note however my 10-54 manitou weighs 24500lbs and the gehl weighs about 32000lbs but I dont think it should make that much of a difference. I might also be rougher on a rental machine in some ways then I would be on my own. The boom retraction issue seamed like it was maybe a chain issue. I dont know who decided to put solid rubber tires (like skidsteer tires) but I had to be pulled out by bigger machinery 6 times. My Manitou has never been pulled out in almost 3 years now. One time I had to dig it out of the snow because the snow was up to the undercarriage. Manitou expensive and well built for the most part, gehl cheaper but maybe more time consuming with more fuel refils (time), slower roading and boom problems, If thats wrong with the boom brand new than what other problems my there be in the design.
Sounds like an interesting mess ya had Framer. In my experience with Gehl's, I've never been fond of the DL series machines, I much prefer the RS series. The RS machines are predecessors of the old 663 and 883 Dynalift design. The old 663 was built like an anvil. I used to work on a contractors fleet that had newer DL-8 and 2 older 663 machines. The oldest 663 they had was half worn out, but it was a daily driver, and had less problems than the new DL's. The newer RS machines may have newer and different components as opposed to the older 663 machines, but the machine design has remained, and in my opinion, the design makes them easier to perform repairs.
The Gehl/ Mustang is 50% owned by Manitou as i understand. The DL-1155 is a Manitou design. The only thing different is the paint. This is what the Gehl rep had told me, said he knew that since mine was a low profile boom. To be honest i really like the machine from an operating standpoint. Mine has the boom controls for a man basket which is nice. The cab and controls are really smooth and comfortable. The only thing i dont like is that its a little lighter in the rear than a Lull (bout the same as a Skytrak), oh yeah and the boom wont retract! It handles alot better on the road than a Lull or skytrak and overall is quite a bit easier to manuver. Also its better in the mud. This one has the Deere motor which we have had great luck with and the Clark trans (not the ZF). The ZF are great but pray that it never ever breaks. I just thought a change would be good after being nickeled and dimed over and over on our Lulls.
Yep, you mention all the things I like about the Gehl telehandler, they are good machines. I just have a mechanical preference to the RS as opposed to the DL, but your right, the DL is a sweet operating machine. Do you have a hyd schematic for your machine?
Dont get me wrong, Lull is a sweet machine expecailly the new 6 and 8. The 10's are just boat anchors. They are really hard on rear ends, axles, u joints, basically anything that involves the drive system. They are pretty good to work on with the traversing boom. I might i will have to look and see the service manual. I really dont think they are worth 20k more to buy one when we run them till they have 4000- 5000 hrs.
Which make do you prefer in the 10K machines?
I haven't been around the 10k's, mostly the 6 and 8000 machines.
so i removed the back boom cover to look at the rear pads. I really didnt see anything that stood out. We noticed that the right side pads on the second boom didnt touch most of the way in or out. Also a few of the chains are slightly twisted where they attach to the boom on the inside and out side. Also when retracting the boom in the trouble area the chains drop all the way down with hardly any tension on them. Any of this a problem? I didnt get any pics that show this real well.
more pics
I am a fleet owner (40) of SkyTraks. I am not a JLG dealer. The dealer should be involved in the maint for the first 1000 hrs or so. The chains definitely need to be tightened. I'd also lube the bottom pads on the extend side & the top pads when the boom is retracted. In other words, when they see pressure from the boom sections. The side pads don't wear much, as they see less weight.
Don't see anything unusal there, but you can't really see the inner wear pads of the tip section. Be sure and keep those chain sheaves greased, I've seen contractors neglect those things and the bearings go down. Looks like the telescope cyl just has a simple internal pilot operated holding valve. No real way to test it for causing a problem telescoping in, short of replacement, and I'd say that thing is a little spendy. You might get it a little cheaper if you can identify it, like if it's a Sun, Deltrol, or Hydraforce cartridge valve, and purchase it from a dealer of these brand valves. Can you see any markings or stampings on the valve?
Is it a problem that the chains are turned to the side a bit where they go up around the pulley and connect to the boom? See the top of the third picture. Also is it a concern that the chains sag only when retracting in that trouble area? They are tight as piano strings when running the boom out
That retract chain is in a twist because the adjusting bolt is locked down slightly turned, shouldn't affect operation of chain. The extend chains will sag because the retract chains are stretching, lot of pressure there. Sounds to me that the machine is just suffering from poor design to handle the kind of friction caused by retracting that long boom. You may have to lubricate boom sections where the wear pads contact the boom sections. It's messy, but you may have no choice. Don't sound like much of a solution though does it. :Banghead
Still gotta check that pressure from the pump. If that doesnt reveal something i will call in the big guns. Can United work on gehl stuff? The local Gehl dealer doesnt have any experience with the 10k machines, it sounds like not a lot period with lifts
"Is it a problem that the chains are turned to the side a bit where they go up around the pulley and connect to the boom?" No, this is natural due to small inaccuracies in the chain when it is made. The anchor will just rotate when you extend/retract the boom. And Manitou doesn't own 50% of Gehl - they own it ALL! They bought the company in the fall of 2008 and Bill Gehl walked away with $12-15M. Manitou paid twice the going stock value and used up all their cash reserves. Manitou's president, who is a descendant of the founder, "retired" early for that little blunder and his heir apparent was fired. "so i removed the back boom cover to look at the rear pads. I really didn't see anything that stood out. " I can't really tell from your pictures, but you need to watch how much gap is between the top (or bottom) pad as it is extended. If there is a gap the whole distance you can add a set of shims. This will make it slightly easier to retract the boom when fully extended and reduce the boom droop. Do the same with the front pads. "The ZF are great but pray that it never ever breaks." We beat the &$%@ out of the ZF transmissions on the test track and never had a problem. The axles on the other hand had a lot of issues. They were originally modified ag axles. We broke almost every part on the test track. Supposedly the new ones are a lot better now. (but I didn't test 'em so I won't stand behind 'em) The Germans have a very segmented company, so the guys designing the transmissions don't know what the axle guys were doing, much less the guys designing the shifters. "Don't get me wrong, Lull is a sweet machine especailly the new 6 and 8. The 10's are just boat anchors. " The 1044C is very closely related the original 644/844 that came out in the late 70's. The machine is a lumbering beast with poor rear visibility. That is part of the reason the new machines where made as side engine. There was a prototype 1044E, but I don't think they could justify the tooling for the number of sales. ISZ
ZF Axles Rentals were "off" (way off), so we moved into used parts. A day doesen't go by without a call for ZF axle parts. Early SkyTrak Legacy's (2001-2005) axles are failing. We supply new & used replacement parts. The boom reinforcement above the rear compansating cylinders are another issue. We have a field repair kit listed on our website (It may not go "live" till Tuesday) that I'd like some feeback on.
I heard the European checks and balances said that if they bought Gehl they would have a controlling market share (monopoly) and that was not allowed. Heard they were not allowed to buy the whole company, only controlling interest. The pads have some small gaps (maybe 3/16 max) at some points in the travel of the boom, but not through the whole motion. I think it just depends where the fulcrom point is in the motion. Thats were i get gun shy because i dont know what is acceptable and dont want to replace or add to pads that dont need it. Sounds like you maybe work for Lull/ JLG?? The axles generally are only damaged when guys are doings something stupid (turning fast in crab mode with a full load on pavement) Not properly shifting, etc. Thats at least what we've found. However, our older 1044c has served us well, it has almost 6000 hrs and still going. Our 2005 model has been the problem child. Always something breaking or leaking. Any rumblings of redesigning the 1044??? Or releasing that prototype you speek of?
What year was the 1044E prototype? How many 1044-c's were being made before things turned to crap? May be with JLG Accuplace the transverse will die soon? I hope not
Traverse was a good ole machine. GC we work for has a 8000#. Ran his several times, looks like a dinosaur with a seat on it! The one they have is pretty nice, i would guess they bought it new and babied it. Very stable with a load extended. Sets the brick right in and out of the scaffold
Well i got tired of guessing so i called United rentals to come out and look. They got the boom to go in and out ok. The grease was actually causing enough friction to cause part of the problem. He wiped the grease off and sprayed the boom with liquid lube and wouldnt ya know it went right in and out. Stiil a little trouble retracting so they are going to get from Gehl all of the pressures and set them accordingly. He thought the extend retract felt a bit low. I didnt know you could set each function.
"I heard the European checks and balances said that if they bought Gehl they would have a controlling market share (monopoly) and that was not allowed. Heard they were not allowed to buy the whole company, only controlling interest." I was working for Gehl when it happened, they are 100% owned by Manitou. There was no real monopoly concerns because the North American machines don't sell well in Europe (too big and bulky) and the Euro machines don't sell well here (too small and $$). "What year was the 1044E prototype? How many 1044-c's were being made before things turned to crap? May be with JLG Accuplace the transverse will die soon? I hope not" The proto was built soon after the 944E came out and I left the company. From what I've heard it is just sitting around. And I don't know how many 1044's they sell, but I would guess that it is <10% of the Lull production. Also, I don't think that Accuplace is a direct replacement for transaction as you still don't get the reach. What worries me about the Accuplace system is that you need a computer, an electrically controlled valve, and some good sensors to measure boom angle/extension - how much $$ and how easy are they going to be to maintain and fix in the field? I'm skeptical that they won't have some teething problems. ISZ
Gradall had an accuplace deal in place but they had to pull it as it never worked right at different temps or oil viscosity. Thanks for the info ISZ:drinkup
What did the 1044 proto have for boom pistons one or two? Did it look like a 944E basically?
I'm sure it had a 4 section boom, wouldn't be worth doing otherwise. And yes it was a modified 644E/944E chassis. This way you can use a slightly modified frame with a common drivetrain and cab, or easily upgrade the axles and engine HP. Commonization saves on design, test, and manufacturing time - which all leads to $$. ISZ
I was working on a Gehl dl12-h a couple of day ago. The wierdest thing, the forks were in the air, operator was on uneven ground and when he put it in reverse the front right wheel was up in the air. this only happens intermittantly. But is was something I have only seen in sky tracs. Whats up with this?
thanks!
I had a JLG man lift do the same thing. The oscilating axles stay locked when the boom was spun around or when it was elevated beyond a certain point. The sensor would stick from time to time (i think it was a prox switch) we replaced that and it never did it again.
Telehandlers are the most unstable when unloaded and the boom is in the air. With the forks down you usually have about 2/3 of the vehicle weight on the rear axle. When you raise the boom you are moving its center of gravity up and to the rear, shifting even more weight off of the front axle. And a 12,000lbs machine will most likely be worse than a 6,000lbs machine because of all the extra counterweight needed (depending on outriggers). And a high boom is worse in this regards than a low boom because the boom CG starts out higher and shifts farther rearwards. This is the biggest trade off when ballasting a telehandler. More counterweight on the back gives you more capacity but makes is less stable with the boom up and empty - something you do every time you deposit a load on a 40ft scaffold (unless you have a Lull/Traverse). It helps to move the ballast as close to the rear axle as you can get it, as this doesn't make them as tippy when raised, but as opposed to the back of the machine it takes more mass to get the same increase in capacity. What you should get out of this is that it is good from a stability point of view to put ballast (ie fluid) in the tires. The mass is low to the ground and near the corners of the vehicle. Unfortunately rental houses complained so much about the extra cost to fix punctured tires that most machines don't require them anymore - but the trade off is that on average the machine weights have increased to get the same lift capacity. ISZ
ISZ what tpe of steel is used in the boom construction of the lifts? Is it a high strength steel?
I don't remember the specific steels that were used, but in general they use a wide mix of 40-100ksi. It depends on the particular part in question. You generally try to use the lowest strength steel you can because it is costs less and is easier to process and weld. Also, different companies tend to favor slightly different alloys because they have more experience with them and what their inhouse processes/equipment are best suited to. ISZ
thanks for the answer :drinkup I noticed on the later 1044B's they added and 3/8" x 2" approx on the exterior of the first section of boom top on each side where the rollers would be below. I guess they had problems? Also what is happening to the steel on the boom and the rollers when extending or retracting I see tiny steel flakes in the sunlight sometimes? thanks john
Ok, so i had United rentals come back out today to work on this 1155 gehl. The boom wouldnt retract when fully extended. We checked and set all pressures to factory specs and then a bit above....nothing. Then we set the pressure on the holding vavle mounted to the extend retract cylinder...nothing. By this point the mechanic thinks that the wear pads or something is binding the boom. We made a 10' long swab and lubed the inside of the boom and then we made a pump sprayer with a 12' long wand and sprayed lube on the rest of the inner booms.....nothing, actually made it chatter this time. He checked the wear pads for gap and nothing was really unusal to him. My only thought is that the boom somewhere is tweeked where it is still inside the machine where you cant see it. Strange thing is that if you bounce the boom a bit it will retract, if you set the forks on the ground (just barely) it will retract. I am stumped please any info would be excellent, i will try anything at this point!
did you contact the Gehl factory? Can't look in the sides of the boom to see if started to bow when/if it was over loaded? Know anyone else with the same machine you could compare notes on? How does each section retract? one section at a time or all moving at once? Does it happen when it is 80 or 90% out?
Yes, they are worthless. Not really enough room to see from the front and in the back they are too far foward to see. When retracted there is too much stuff in the way to clearly see if there is a bow or a dent. Machine works off of chains, just like a Lull. It gets stuck at the last 2 feet of the motion
Hi barklee, let's try something else just to say we checked it. First, determine which hose at cylinder is the extend hose. Then, fully extend boom. You're saying at this point it won't retract, right? Once you get it in a position it won't retract, shut off the machine and remove the extend hose where it connects underneath the boom pivot. Put a cap on the line going to control valve, place the disconnected hose in a bucket. Now have someone retract the boom. When the boom is not moving while attempting to retract, there should be no oil flowing out of the hose in the bucket.
Are you saying that if oil is coming out that is the problem? What would that be?
Yes, would be a problem. Briefly; boom is fully extended. Telescope extend hose is disconnected, line going to control valve is capped, extend circuit hose going to cylinder is in a bucket. Now start engine and retract boom. If the boom is not moving (as has been your problem), at that moment, there should be no oil coming out of extend hose that's in the bucket. If there is oil coming out of hose (while boom is not moving during retraction) then you either have a problem with cylinder piston seal or a problem with the internal pilot holding valve cartridge.
got it, thanks. i will try that in the morning.
I just had a crazy idea...the holding valve on the frame tilt cylinder looks the same as the extend cylinder. What if i swaped them to see if that works???
Hey, sometimes, if the cause of a problem is being elusive, just gotta try something different. Might gleen a clue as to what the problem is. I've been following your thread, it is frustrating to not be able to determine what's causing what seems to be such a simple problem. You keep going down rabbit trails that ain't got no rabbit on it. :Banghead Sometimes...just try something different.
I've rented a brand new one in 08 with 8 hours and had the same problem. It might be structural (aka the way it was built)
Check the hose in the bucket first, just to see if oil is coming out of hose, just another tidbit of info. Most, but not all, cartridge valves have numbers stamped on them. See if the numbers match up. That would be great if they would switch. Before you pull the fork tilt cartridge valve, make sure the forks are tilted until pressure is off cylinder.
Any progress on this? Just curious
Funny you ask... i havent had time to follow atco's advise yet. I went out to move it out of the way yesterday and the booms go in and out now pretty well. They chatter a bit about the last 5' of extention and about 2' going in. Maybe it took a few days for the lube concoction we made (diesel and hydraulic oil) to soak into the steel of the booms. Guy from United had the side shims out of the main section of boom and i could see what looked like a dimple right behind or under the wear pads (think on both sides they looked pretty regular though) That would be on the second boom section. Dont know if thats a problem or not. Guess if the booms act up again or if im going to get it any better i might have to take a better look.
I did talk to Gehl a while ago. They gave me the number of a dealer they like to work with for service issues. I talked to the service manager at that dealership and he said they had been selling about 10-15 of these machines per year. He said they have never had one come back for anything other than basic issues (mostly maintainence issues). So i guess thats a good sign!
:thumbsup
Hey speedpup i was reading an old thread, are you a mason? Reason i ask is we do masonry restoration and some new masonry. Hows work in your area? Are you over by NYC or toward PA and Ohio? In our area there doesnt seem like there is much to do!! Restoration work is slow too. Work is going cheap unless its some screwed up huge liability job (which is the only thing we have to do). We dont really do residential work but i know those guys are really hurting right now. Only masons working residential are the ones with a bullet proof reputation. Are there a lot of clueless masons in your area? I usually sub any brick work over around 5000 brick, and i have had nothing but troble with every mason i have subbed to. The incline in residental work these last several years has allowed any tom **** and harry to get work, and not even half of them know what they are doing! Seems like if you put most of these guys on commercial work there heads spin because they have a hard time laying brick to a line let alone reading a print and installing drainage, waterproofing, and anything besides a corregated wall tie. Thats just what it seems like around here, wondered if its that way all over
To some it up in two words for every aspect of the trade "It's over!" I could not even call 99.99% them clueless it would be to high of a rating. I have 40 years in the trade as a bricklayer and 35 as a contractor. I am on Long Island / NYC area. I just do commercial work 99.9% of the time. Here a guy put up a wall about 55 feet long 6 feet high with two no joke, two wall ties. I guess they don't even know what a wall tie is now! I started as a bricklayer in the union serving my apprenticeship 70-74. Then started my business doing residential 75-77. Then started my business as a union masonry contractor in 1978 doing commercial work. I have had from 0-85 employees. In 99 I got so sick of fighting everything I mothballed my company and parked everything in my yard. I got a good offer and tried it. I ran all the outside masonry operations of a company with 350 employees at times. I got a great offer to do it. It was the biggest masonry contractor in the world at one time before it was sold and split in two. The original owner had a world famous daughter and did many famous masonry projects. My employees said try it you can always quit so off we all went. I went first and let the last 5 of my guys finish up my work before joining me. I was getting 110,000 in 1999, car, benefits and supposedly 20% of the profit on a company that has done 10-15+ million in masonry a year. We did one school where the masonry was 6 million in 1999 when I was their. They were bidding on a single project worth over 30 million when I left. I figured the percentages backwards and thought even a small percentage of that would be great with no hassles. After a year + I slammed my hard hat into the concrete and split back to my own insanity. Didn't get paid for some of the Lull rentals I gave the company for 9 months. Yes, the once proud trade is gone! Anytime you want to bounce ideas off me feel free to it is fun to exchange ideas on bidding or anything else.
Wow!!!!!! I had no idea you had that kind of experience! I am just a little guy with anywhere from 5-20 men working. But i guess a restoration guy doesnt need too many guys. Who did you work for that was getting that kind of work done? Yes, i will definitly ask you if i run into something! I have a similar story about wall ties....Last year we did a job tearing all the verneer off of a building built in 1988. It had more wall ties but not many! They used brite corregated house ties and just about every one was rusted through! The building was originally a large general contractors office and i think they laid it! Most of the walls pulled down in one huge chunk (ie, 75' long sections by 15' tall). The structural engineer nearly fell over watching this. When we tore them down there was hundreds of gallons of water trapped in the walls and the block back up. It was about 30,000brick and 5,000 block and about 2 semi loads of limestone. My grandfather started our buisness in the late 30's and went bankrupt twice doing work for large corperations and not getting paid (doing work on a handshake). I know he would be rolling in his grave to see the state of the trade today! i am sorry to say but the only companies doing good quality work today are the unions. Sad thing is most of those guys will be retiring fairly soon and there is few to replace them that have a clue! Most of the guys now days are punks that think they know what they are doing because they watched somebody do it and have never done it themselves. There is no pride anymore in what you DO for a living. These guys make a crazy wage to know about half of what they think they know and they have nothing to show for it! I think i run a babysitting service most days. I could go on all day about that! I had two guys from Long island come to Ohio to demo a machine i have a few years ago. Looked for there buisness card but couldnt find it. The guys name was Chaz Mitrani and his partner was a mason, he said he was from Poland. Anyway they said they worked in the Hamptons mostly doing high end residental work. They were very nice guys, wondered if you knew them?
It is never how many men you have it is about what you keep in your pocket in the end. I watch some people do huge jobs like 3-7 million only to lose 300,000 to 750,000 out of pocket I told one guy you see the loose brick on the stoop across the street? He said yes, I said if you didn't do the $7,000,000 job and stuck that on missing brick for 50 cents you would be $750,000.50 ahead of where you are now. You also would be done in minutes not a year. They couldn't even speak, I know a little about restoration and masonry failures. Some from repairs and some from reading over the years. When I was an apprentice I took a course with NY Historical Society. I almost went into restoration. There used to be so many great masons around when I started in business. I told them do this and never looked back at many of them. Now I have to baby sit 90% of them constantly. The only good thing is they all know I can take the trowel or shovel out of their hand and show them. I show them the way and then tell them why it is better or faster. I also am open to their methods and knowledge for sure. I love to teach people everything I know. Sad part is none want to learn, none would stay 30 minutes a night or in the morning to learn to be a foreman. I would spend time showing people why I do this or that on a job or plan reading in the morning or even math but they never give a dam. When I started I would be in a hour early looking at the plans and asking questions to learn. Even now I watch the competition to learn new ideas and ask employees how would XYZ do this or that to learn new methods. I always wanted to start a forum for masonry contractors to discuss work in the field, equipment, and business problems. I found a old alarm clock from the original company name I worked for on ebay and paid just near 400 for it, Still works but the cord is shot and bare in some spots. Hint who was a actress and then a Princess? They had an arguably world famous slogan too. The job I am just finishing will need a huge restoration in less than 10 years! I wrote letters and took 2,000+ photo graphs to protect myself. Have any other pictures from when you grandfather was doing the work? I love old pictures and masonry books. I have some old slides I took off pictures where the bricklayers were working in white shirt, tie, vest, top coat and a derby. I remember my father going out the door to work in a white shirt, tie, and hat. Now idiots have more mortar on themselves than the wall.
Well, you have given me some education for the day.... Grace Kelly? John Kelly? I couldnt find the company name so i guess Kelly masonry? We do have some old pics i will try to scan them in if i can get them from my grandma without losing any fingers?
yep J B Kelly / Kelly for brick work!:drinkup Just found today by googling they wrote a book about him. There are some real cool J B Kelly bookends made of pewter and statue of their logo which is a mason tender carrying a hod. They sold for 250 in a n auction last year. I would have paid way way more. Can't find them at the moment. I also have some pictures of Jones Beach Water tower restoration that is going on now. It was a 6 million dollar restoration contract which started at 3 million.
Jones Beach Tower Set for Restoration By LINDA SASLOW Published: May 18, 2008 JONES BEACH Skip to next paragraph In the Region Long Island, Westchester, Connecticut and New Jersey Go to Complete Coverage » FOR 78 years, the Jones Beach water tower has been a Long Island landmark — standing 231 feet high in the center of a landscaped traffic circle at the approach to Jones Beach along the Wantagh Parkway and visible to beachgoers from miles away. But the brick and limestone tower, which houses a 315,000-gallon tank to store water from three 1,000-foot-deep wells, is deteriorating. George Gorman, deputy director for the Long Island region of the State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, said there are cracks in the bricks — some small, others 20 feet long. The tower has been barricaded by a fence and scaffolding since 2002 to protect employees, he said. “An indentation on one side of the bricks looks as if something hit into it, and the steel frame that supports the tank is falling apart,” Mr. Gorman said. Now, thanks to $3.2 million appropriated by the State Legislature, the water tower will get a face-lift, beginning this summer, which is expected to take from 18 months to two years. The money is part of $130 million in the state budget for repairs, maintenance and upgrades at state parks. Of the total, Long Island received $28 million. Carol Ash, the state parks commissioner, said that this is the most money the parks have ever received for repairs and maintenance, and that projects were planned at every park. In choosing the projects, the first priorities were health and safety, she said. “Our state parks have been hurting from an infrastructure point of view for a long time,” Ms. Ash said. “These projects are vital to keep the parks in working order and for the public to be able to enjoy all that they have to offer.” Built in 1930, the water tower was modeled on the campanile of St. Mark’s Cathedral in Venice and supervised by Robert Moses, then the president of the Long Island State Parks Commission. In the center of a traffic circle that Mr. Moses planned as a terminus for the Wantagh State Parkway, he ordered the construction of an Italianate-style tower to serve as a central feature of the park. The tower, which has never been open to the public, supplies the water for the entire park, including the Jones Beach Theater, swimming pools, restrooms and bathhouses. The money earmarked for the tower will be used to replace its copper roof, the structural steel framing and portions of the brick and limestone. Work will be done by Minelli Construction, of Islandia. The work at Jones Beach also includes repairing the two-mile boardwalk, lighting the two softball fields and upgrading one restroom. Jones Beach State Park, in the hamlet of Wantagh, was named after Maj. Thomas Jones of Massapequa, a Long Island landowner in the early 1700s. The park includes 10 miles of beaches, an outdoor theater, two pools, four basketball courts, a four-mile bike path, four fishing piers and 22 shuffleboard courts. More than eight million people a year visit the park. State Senator Charles J. Fuschillo Jr., whose district includes Jones Beach, said that while it was a challenge to secure the money during such difficult economic times, “it was critical to preserve the historical nature of the Jones Beach water tower.” “The bricks are literally falling down,” he said. “If we don’t restore it, the tower will fall apart.” BS posting but a picture of the tower. scroll down a bit. http://www.fastlsx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1342189366 copied tower http://www.panoramio.com/photo/1829736
That would be a nice job. Wish it was a little farther west! Do you know what the scope of work is?
When I get a chance I'll post pic's. From what I heard from and engineer who helped do the inspection the original water tank is fine. The steel frame inside holding the tank had huge holes in the steel beams. The had to be replaced. he lifted the copper top off with a crane and set it on the ground. They have done some various brick removals here and there. The they took some corners down for a good height. Now they have removed a good deal of brick on the top in areas. They also took down the decorative limestone pieces which are fairly big when the are on the ground. They are using elevating scaffolds around it and pipe scaffold on the bottom stone work which is 5-6 frames high, I want to stop and BS but no clue how they would appreciate it. Very interesting project to do requiring some good experienced moves on the contractors parts. I would love to work on it. The tank gets the cold water pumped up in it casing condensation and dripping. Then the idiots never cleaned the bottom drains at the base of the tower so it was constantly flooded leading to more condensation and corrosion of the steel. I heard from the engineer it was really in scary condition. Some guy a few years ago took his new Jag and did 120+ mph into the base of the tower. He went right up the stairs at the base I was driving by (nearly stopped) and looking at the pile of debris. There were two cops staring at the pile. I thought some brick or stone had fallen. I did not know until I watched the news what it really was a suicide. He's dead and some else is with her anyway sad he was so depressed and did that. When they really got into the job it went from 3 to 6 million! john
thats quite the change order! i would love the extra work but hate to tell the owner... Any idea who did the job? i dont know why but i am always curious whos doing what
Micelli
Electric fuel pumps Anybody else using electric fuel transfer pumps to replace the mechanical one when it fails? I've done it a dozen times (all on different units) and never had to replace it again. I have often wondered why they are not standard equipment on new equipment. They prove their worth in reliablity and are super handy when priming the fuel system. ISZ?
Minnelli Constrution
Done that with several man lifts. Works pretty good and cheap!
good point. probably because everthing is fuel injection or diesel. Do you use the ones from napa or is there a better quality pump?
Napa. Or ebay. 25-30$, problem solved. I pick up the fuel line prior to the old pump then plum it right thru the old mechanical pump.