I went to the parts store to get some 14 AWG for my project and all they had in stock was CCA. The "parts" guy told me " it's the same stuff but way cheaper ". Um, no it's not. I guess low price is everything these days. Off to the internet and order up some bulk copper to use & stock the shop & truck..... Maybe I'm just stuck in the past but I'm sticking with all copper, to me it seems like that coated aluminum just has too many things going against it. I do a lot of solder connections and that coated aluminum is sure easy to spot when I run into it. What's the thinking & experiences here? Use CCA all the time? CCA works fine? Never use it on a customer job? Only OFC/copper?
Oxygen free copper is just a gimmick for car stereo guys, but we use copper with cross link (XL) PE insulation, it seems to be the same stuff car manufacturers are using on new products. Waytek wire has been my source for almost 20 years now. Auto parts stores seem to carry the cheapest junk you can imagine in most lines, but aluminum wire really is crossing the line, I think. I also get my really large cable from wireandcableyourway.com, but it seems they have a good selection of MTW/UL1015 wire if you want to go full industrial. I also use these crimpers: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/496/Molex-64016-0037-ServiceGrade-Hand-Crimper-Tool-/ With as many electrical connections as everything has these days, everything has to be made up perfectly.
I'm finding that out now. What a bunch of BS. I never paid too much attention in the past- automotive primary wire was auto primary wire. I was looking there earlier, I've purchased from them before. I used to be able to get decent product from my NAPA that used to serve their local logging/trucking/equipment customers. Now it looks like they are good for stuff to install your car stereo, wiper blades.....shoot, they don't even have the little tree air fresheners anymore.
I've talked to guys in purchasing or merchandising or whatever they call it. They say the demand of their customers is always for cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. Sometimes they carry a cheaper and a better line of product but there is only so much room in the stock room. Therefore they have to carry what the customer buys and that is always the cheap stuff. Many times after hours I have walked up to the retail counter for some part and they will offer me something in the genuine line such as Motorcraft almost apologetically at say $50 and the cheap one is say $30 but they are out of stock and can have it in in the morning. My impression is that lots of their customers will take a deal like that where I would probably have bought the Motorcraft even if the cheap one was in stock. They seem like they are just being beaten down by the customer all the time on price, price, price.
Well at least that part is good news for someone who is sensitive to the "STINK" those things put out! Maybe if the equipment operators would carry their crap out of the machine at the end of the sift the cabs would not need chemicals to hide the odor! Sorry Crummy! For my personal at home use I would often salvage old wire from equipment when a damaged sensor or harness needed to be replaced. Same with Deutch connectors just need to purchase a handful of terminals to re-purpose them!
Deutsch connectors and the like are starting to show up on ebay and can be bought as needed sometimes. Otherwise electrical supply places usually have them too. The trick is knowing what they are called. I will spend the money and do it as good as what's already there. If it is cheap vinyl crimps then I use them too. If it is Deutch and Amp Seal connectors then I use them. Don't want my wiring connections becoming the weak point in the system.
I would not use aluminum wire in any kind of environment that sees even minor amounts of vibration. It's fine buried in the dirt or in a conduit on a building, but never in a vehicle or machine. I always use MTW. I order it from McMaster Carr. More expensive, but they don't sell junk.
Don't get any wire with soy-based insulation. Rats feast on that stuff.
Tofu/vegetarian insulation.
I expect you will see the CCA wiring eliminated in the future after it gets a trend going of burning up the application it is installed in. Remember Reynold's, and ALCOA pushing aluminum wiring in mobile home installations as opposed to more expensive copper? Many of those mobile homes I pulled out, (referenced in another thread) and busted up in the parking lot were burn outs attributed to aluminum wiring. This crap gets hot, grows in size, cools and shrinks leaving behind a high resistance, loose connection, or termination that causes fires. This was proven and the wiring banned in the early 1970's. Now it's alright if you plate it with copper which is there to preclude the aluminum corroding? Doesn't sound a good alternative to copper to me so not going to use it.
The CCA we are discussing here is sold in auto parts stores to be rock bottom cheap, probably looks just like normal stranded auto wire. I doubt you could find any manufacturer to go back on if it burned a vehicle. CCA is making a comeback in new home construction but so far limited to one company, Copperweld. I think it is going to actually catch on with prices of materials the way they are. Electric loads on small house circuits are generally way lower these days, don't need to run 12 AWG copper to run your 8 watt LED over kitchen table.
You may be right as I really don't know. I too have seen it, (CCA) in the auto parts stores, and online extensively as it's a cheaper alternative consumers go for. It does look close to annealed copper stranded wiring until you look at the end after cutting it to length to terminate it. Definitely aluminum in the center. Have even seen it used in automotive booster cables too. Given that aluminum work hardens and becomes brittle, I wonder how they'll fare if used often. I don't know.
I'm sure even fine stranded CCA would be near worthless in jumper cables and auto wire, after a time. In a house I have no problem with it. We use 8AWG and larger aluminum almost exclusively nowadays for permanent wiring because copper is so expensive. And it works just fine.
What about when ya do buy the $50 option, and it’s just the same Chinese part in a domestic box for $20 more? Seems to be pretty common now.
Or worse go to the dealer because the last one failed, and it is the same junk in an OEM box for 2x the price.
Maybe not, but then some bozo with a honey-do list installs a nice, new chandelier and boom, the house burns down.
Right now 14AWG copper/12AWG CCA is the minimum size, to be protected by a 15 amp breaker. There is a move afoot to allow 16AWG copper and presumably 14AWG CCA on a smaller breaker for a future code cycle. It's coming, like it or not.
I hadn't heard that 16 is being promoted. It's common in other countries, but then lots of **** is common in other countries that's frowned on here. Would make perfect sense to use 16 or even 18g copper for light circuits, as long as it's appropriately protected. The difference between Al in bigger sizes and cu al wire is the number of connections and the galvanic corrosion. Cu plated Al is asking for a corrosion mess if there's any moisture, probably OK in a house, but why risk it for small wires? Cu is under $4/lb, doesn't seem that's the reason for high wire prices.
Cu prices seem to be down right now, but they will go up again. We might have another house building boom someday also.
How many of those other countries are 220V? In spite of those lower amperage led lights, toasters, waffle irons, and hair dryers aren't getting any less powerful (yet).
In North America, the kitchen, laundry, garage, outdoor outlets would remain 12Cu/10Al. Overhead lighting circuits could get smaller. Not sure what is going to happen with general house outlets, if anything.
Nearly all of them, but that doesn't make 18g wire on a 30a breaker any safer. I'm all for 16 or 18 gauge lighting circuits, just properly protected at 10a or whatever. We're not building more electrically demanding houses, or using more appliances. If it wasn't for "green" pushing to get rid of gas, then 200a services would be looking pretty ridiculous. Even with all electric houses, with the smart grid that's going to be required to maintain reliability (of sorts), 100a will be more than enough, when the water heater heat pump talks to the fridge and dishwasher to manage use.
I disagree slightly, if more electric is mandated, services are going to exceed 200 amps, but that is not going to affect the individual Romex circuits for lights and outlets. The heat pump, water heater, cook stove etc. are going to continue to be the same aluminum most are running right now. One strange deal is car chargers, many of them specifically require copper for no discernable reason although I expect that will change with more competition.
There was a time, a very short time, they were selling aluminum welding cable. Makes absolutely no sense at all. You probably had to buy 2 sizes bigger and better have a remote to keep turning your heat up as it got hot.