OK NOT sure if I am in the right section to post this, so if I;m not sorry BUT here I go is anyone here into OLD motor's have any knowledge about them, values, worth , or?? like info/ I just got an old 1950's (1950-1953) Wisconsin vg4d 4 cylinder motor trying to figure out what its worth last ran in the late 80's and then was parked in a garage/barn and been sitting ever since, got some extra parts too SO< anyone have any feedback?? I do NOT know its its free or not, haven't had time to do anything yet, besides look at the ID tag and get the model, serial number off it, and put some extra parts in the shed I got with it and other things SO< any help, info would be greatly appreciated ITS currently mounted on a New Holland Corn chopper, also made in the early 1950's
If it was under cover and the exhaust capped with that can, the basic engine will most likely be fine. If it wasn't run dry the fuel system will probably be a gelled up mess. Pop the carb off and open it up, might need a kit as the gaskets are obviously way old, might have to put it in the carb cleaner for a few days to get the varnish out of it. Remove the fuel pump and block it off, get a cheap electric low pressure from the auto parts or small engine store. Pull the spark plugs, pour a little Casite if you can find it, or ATF in each hole, like a few spoonfuls, let sit overnight then try to turn it by hand. Should free right up. Spin it a bit on the starter if that works to spread the lubricant and get rid of the excess. Clean the points with a business card, see if it has spark. Install plugs, install carb, put fuel to it, light it. Should be worth a grand running good I would think, but that's just my WAG on it. There's still thousands of these old engines running out there.
Good lord I almost puked when I saw the pix of that motor. I wouldn't give ten bucks for a semi load of those motors... I spent most of my young adult years cranking on those. I see that one has a starter and most likely a distributor( they were better than the older ones with magneto's). Enough said by me.
thanks for all the insight and info, I'm not sure if I plan to try to get it running or not, as the whole thing is Not at my property, just at a friends for now, and its 50+ miles from me, so getting there to play isn't the easiest for me, and its in a pretty big item, so not like can just grab it and take it home with me wish it was just a motor and not a whole implement as it is SO< might see about getting each plug out at least and soaking it, to at least see that part has some give HOPING to sell the whole thing in one shot, as I just don't really need it but its some times hard to guess a mate value on things like this
Check the oil, put some gas in it, dribble some down the carb to help the process and see if it'll fire up. I'd think you'd be lucky to get $1,000 for the whole thing, but that's such a unique item that it's real hard to say. I'd say $500 tops for the motor, but you might find somebody that needs one more than that?
Oh yeah, the cylinder heads are aluminum so it's likely the plugs are corroded in, shoot some penetrating oil on them and give them a little tweak to the right, if you can get each one to tighten even a couple degrees before trying to turn them out it will help break the steel threads loose from the aluminum. Gentle touch here, or it will be insert time.
thanks again for the info I was offered a price for the corn head before they knew the motor was there, so, just trying to figure them together's value(and then also have the Hay head for this too, making it a pretty complete old item) as for the spark plugs, YES that too has been a worry of mine as well, them being like welded from time in there BUT on the bright side, I have an extra head intake and carb for this motor, so if one plug breaks or?? there is a slight plan B to this, due to some extra parts I got with it NOT sure how great the condition of them , as didn;'t look them over that great, but do have some spare parts in case But I think I will soak them a while before doing anything and also, that coke can has been over the exhaust and then there was a water proof cover over the whole thing, plus was again in a barn with a solid roof , so water never really had been a issue unless while using it got caught in the rain, was always kept in a dry building, and then they added the cover when they realized they wouldn't be using anymore as an added deal
Yair . . . From my experience those little Wisconsins were pretty decent little engines . . . far better on a welder than the Onans. In Australia anyway I believe they were used as a pilot/pony motor on some of the twin cylinder John Deere tractors . . . I think the one I ran for a while was an "R" model and it sure had a pilot motor. Cheers.
I worked on I think it was VF4D and VH4D's, mostly in Bobcat skid steers, they did have their quirks but for the most part pretty reliable and bone simple to work on. Those were all electric start with distributors. The magnetos were always a problem, if you got them rebuilt now and then so the impulse worked right and they had a nice fat spark, they would usually pop off about the third crank. Usually had to choke them hard as I recall, pretty much everything with an updraft seemed that way to me, lots of choke to get the gas up into the intake.
My Uncle had one of those on a new holland baler many years ago. It would start cold but a dog if you switched it off and tried to start it hot. A lot of our hay was baled in the night for the moisture content and I can remember some fun (not) times trying to get it started at 1 am. It had iron heads and a 6 volt starter. I have a friend who uses them on hydraulic power packs for his line boring rig and he speaks well of them.
That's right RayF,,, we used to carry cold magneto's to switch out when trying to start a hot motor.... I remember that vividly.
Again thanks guys for all the info, much appreciated
You mean you don't want to crank one of those over by hand and have the crank jump off and smack you between the eyes and bust your glasses? BTDT
Lantraxco, We had a couple Bobcats back in the day with the 4 cylinder Wisconsin's. We had a problem with them snapping the crankshaft. Figured it was from the side load of the variable speed belt drive. A couple times we found a machine like the one the OP has sitting out in a farmers back lot. Pull the engine out and scrap most of it then take the crank to the machine shop and have the straight shaft recut to the taper the Bobcat pulley used pop it back together and be good to go. We also had one of these V-4's with a Marlow water pump on it. That was the hand crank magneto version that would smack you between the eyes with the cranking handle. Di it to me and my father both at different times! This one always seemed to have a problem that if it set for a couple months a couple of the exhaust valves would rust in the guides just enough that we had to pop off the heads and squirt them with penetrating oil. Tap them back down crank over the engine and if they stuck again another tap, repeat as need. Bolt heads back one and it was good to go! Also had one of these as a Pony motor on a V-12 Cummins in a Bucyrus Erie crane. Last one I worked on was a wood chipper I borrowed from the brother-in-law of a guy at work. Carb was gunked up big time and the fuel pump corroded right through. Was able to dig up enough parts from the old junk box at work to get it running. That one actually had an electronic pick-up in the distributor! Someone had messed the magnets in that so needed to locate parts to fix it. Oh also the alternator that was part of the flywheel had some broken wires. I think I spent five times as long working on that motor than it took to chip up the branches I wanted to get rid of! Not too bad a deal owner paid 100% for the parts and no charge for the use of the machine and even came out with his big chain saw to slice up the trunk of the tree I had cut down to fire wood length.
Yeah, the crank popping off was a hallmark of the magneto engines, they would kinda fire just enough to get ahead of the crank... Not from a Wisconsin but I still have the lump in my forehead where the ER quack stitched up the wound from a crank coming off of an old Vaughan single cylinder back in my teens. We never had crankshaft problems on the old Bobcats that I can remember, you did have to keep the driven pulley clean and lubed, and preach to the operators about having the throttle wide open when changing from slow to go, you needed the speed to help the driven pulley open up as I recall. Seems like I replaced a hundred of those leaky little swivels too! The good old days....
OK a little info I got today back from Wisconsin motor's I sent then a email asking for info based on model/serial number, and they told me they could maybe get me a build sheet , BUT after sending them the pic's and info, they said, records ONLY show the date made its a 1954 yr motor, IT has electric start(and a hand crank) 6 vt starter motor(actually have a few extra's too) and this is what they told me """ the engine was built in January of 1954. Our build sheets go back to 1958. Unfortunately I can’t reference a build sheet for options. Looking at your photos I can see the engine has an electric starter (probably 6 volt) but more important is the engine has a clutch with a gear reduction. The clutch reduction assembly is no longer available from Wisconsin. As for valve, if you found someone who needed the clutch and gearbox the engine is worth $1500.00 to $2500.00 if it runs."""" SO based on that, gather its worth a LITTLE more than I expected, and I am ALSO sure they went HIGH on there numbers due to, well its there product and they want it to be worth more LOL BUt was nice of them to offer the info they did, were very nice to talk to, as well
I wish they were worth something i scraped a good one last year. I have one left and i am thinking about puting it on my skidsteer. Times have changed i saw a amish guy pull the clutchs and gear boxes from 12 of them and scraped the rest.
well Ebay has a lot of the parts and there NOT cheap, so I gather if your a guy that likes tro sell on Ebay and likes to take things apart, you can make a few bucks off one If I don't sell it soon, Its going to a friends farm auction and there will a LOT of Amish at it, so I expect it will sell there if NOT before hand will update as it goes really wish I'd sell the bigger REO speed wagon truck, as it too is now outside as NO room under a roof for it?
WE had a hand cranked V4 on a new Holland 77 baler when I was a kid. We had to pour water on the fuel pump ever time it was shut off when hot due to vapor lock. The crank was about chest high on the baler and what a bugger to crank. Then we got a JD with a 2 cylinder motor and I loved that one.
IMHO its worth it to NOT have it around me!!! scrap the thing as a unit!!! if someone want the head make them a deal & give them that "boat anchor" for free I have had lotsa problems with them over the years cranks, heads, mags!!
Had a VG4 on a trash pump we used for dewatering a mine pit. I got it to run for all of twenty minutes when a spark plug blew out of one cylinder. I put a helicoil in it, put the plug back in and it ran for a few days but one of the cylinders was buggered up and the thing ended up not having the power to pull the pump. It was a hand start with a mag and an old timer gave me some advice before I tried starting it. He said get the thing set so it is ready to pop over a cylinder and then put the hand crank at the bottom position. Put your hand on the handle from the top side and do not wrap your thumb. Pull up to go over that cylinder and if it pops it will squirt the handle off the crank. If it just goes over and pops on the next cylinder early your hand is positioned that it will just knock the handle out of your hand and you can get away. We had one guy start out pushing down on the handle, going around the bottom and then getting popped. The handle liked to shove his wrist and elbow right up through his shoulder blade.
Yair . . . Does anyone know if these were the pony motors on the big John Deere's? I'm curious now. (grins) Cheers.
My dad described his way to get one with a worn impulse in the mag started, switch off, get it spinning with the crank, switch on and yank the choke full. That way inertia was in your favor so as not to pop backwards and the mag had rotation enough to make spark. He still has both thumbs and no scars on his head (from cranks anyway) so it sounds plausible.
Absolutely no sense of adventure I tell ya, lol
I've never taken a close look, or had the pleasure of using one, but the ones over here are water cooled to heat the main engine until it's warm enough to start. This one, and all the Wisconsin's I've seen are air cooled.
I think i have the same engine somewhere and it ran when shut down anyone want it. what do you think was wrong with that mag trax I'm not real familiar with them
Magnetos generally have one of two problems, first the insulation on the coils gets leaky and they get moisture in there, internally shorts some or all the windings. The mechanical part of the drive has something called an "impulse" that winds up and then snaps around part of a turn quickly to give the magnets speed to induce a fat spark. This only happens when starting the engine. These get tired and will either fail to snap over or do it at the wrong time. Spinning the engine sort of accomplishes the same thing, the mag shaft is hopefully rotating fast enough that you get spark without benefit of the impulse working.
If you raised the magnet power considerably would that be fine?
If the windings were good. ...i mean I think ....would that be onan' and for wisc.
Dunno, but I suppose there's a balance, if the field was too strong that might also be a problem. What I know about the physics of it is just about zero, lol.
Some contraptions have great sentimental value. ....;i'd like ta keep it original. ..."
Seems like some old coils could be easily refurbished with some redneck injun'newtie or Yankee ingenuity.
There are places that rebuild magnetos still, not quite the same but they still use them in all the small airplane engines for instance.
Polaris atv's had some ignition problems that sounds like you'd be best to make a will fit, or retrofit. Also big $ problems with their diesel engines.
Yair . . . . Gotcha Delmer . . . now I'm really curious, I'll do a bit of looking. Cheers.
You've got me curious now, I have never seen a Deere with a pony motor?
John Deere pony motor r model
The big two cylinder diesels had an optional electric start, or a V-4, maybe V-2 somewhere?, pony motor. Like the original 720.
I still have a drawer with old magnetos in it.... should have thrown them away thirty years ago. But I look at them and then remember the times people that didn't know better would hold them, snap them over the impulse and then jump like a crazy man when it bites them.... I close the draw back up. lol.
They are a small V4 pony motor. They set on top the engine up under the hood a bit right in front of the dash. They do not look nothing like a Wisconsin to me. They have 2 sets of ignition on them and the cylinders fire on both compression and exhaust stroke if I remember correctly.
Yair . . . Gotcha old-iron-habit . I am way off line, dunno where I got the Wisconsin/John Deere notion. Cheers.
This is very easy to do all that you have to do is drill a hole in the cap to hook the coil wire to . You use the points in the mag. I did this some on cat pony motors.
Great idea Doug I never thought of that! There's two onan gas motors for sale here on Craig's list barter section gasoline twins just what miss Kalabash thinks i need. ...more Junk'
That reminded me of a guy at work many years ago. He was a welder and had an old gas welder of his own at home. It was not running right due to a bad magneto so he pulled it and sent it to the repair shop to get rebuilt. He got it back and while looking it over turned the drive and tripped the impulse. Yea he dropped it and pieces went flying! Next time he got it rebuilt he did not check it out before installing it!
LMAO!!! I can see you letting someone do that to I have 1 laying on the bench at the shop, low & behold bout 1 time a week someone will pick it up & for whatever reason try & spin it!! I get cussed, threatened everytime!! I just say don't touch anything else while your here!! most of them remember it the next time they come into the shop & keep their hands in their pockets LOL
Your my kinda guy Fservice....lmao!!!
This also reminds me of some of the guys I knew back in college. Many were electronic types some of whom would sit around in their spare time drawing up circuits for amplifiers and such, this was back when things were still done with resistors and capacitors before IC's Well one of the "games" they like to play on people was to take a capacitor and charge it up and then toss it to someone unsuspecting to catch. As you probably know that capacitor will discharge if you were unlucky to touch both ends when you caught it!
My shop teacher did that to the greenhorns in small engines class. For the life of them they couldn't figure out how that happened.
Ive got one o the winconsin engines that is a two cyl. it has distrubter and electric start and a clutch. and a one cly that has a mag and hand crank.