Yair . . . RonG and I performed a very successful hijack of a thread on blade control . . . we started talking about cable blades and CCU's and such like. RonG hinted at no longer used methods of cutting hard ground with a cable blade with no tilt. It could be done by side cutting. Normally you could scrape together a pile of dust or ant bed or even a log and get one sprocket backed up on it and get a corner of the blade into the ground. Not all that efficient of course but it could be done and I believe it was one of the reasons slot dozing took so long to become established . . . there was a whole generation of operators out there who had been side cutting their entire careers and found it difficult to change. Cheers.
Ya, ineffecient maybe but not for the times. It sure was better than the alternatives. Thanks for reminding me of ways and means long gone to pasture. Like cutting, excavating, and shaping county road ditches using only a 3T D7 and a Latourneo LS pull scraper, no grader on the project ever. Believe me I never became an expert as my Uncle Hurley was but sure had fun trying as a 15 year old kid on summer vacation from school.
Yes,,,, and in real dry weather when the ground was so hard you had to crank your manuel tilt screw to even get started cutting. I remember those days,, replacing cables, adjusting winches,,, handling that dam*ed frayed cable. Yup,,, hydraulics all the way for me. You call them the good old days... my sweet petute. Just say'n...lol.
Yair . . . grandpa .I guess it was horses for courses and for the most part I agree. However, for working in timber in heavy dust at night the old cable pretty much was fool proof. For a start when we went hydraulic we lost a lot of time with torn off hoses bent rams and the like. I think the main reason we went with juice on those first D9G's was because those horrible bull-blades were a little cheaper than a proper "C" frame and a DDPCU at the time. We persevered though and better lighting and guarding evolved and we modified the hydraulics to take the hoses out of play. Cheers.
I am onboard here guys,here is a wonderful chance to embarrass myself,hope I don't let you down.Our TD-18s had scarifier teeth on the Cframe,all we had to do was pull the pins so they could drop down and you could scarify the ground while backing up for another push so that you were working both ways.I took about 1300 pics using tri-x film while overseas and of course a lot of them were of heavy equipment and I should probably start posting some of them here since there are probably many here that could appreciate them.I posted a lot of them on the Red Power board over the years but they are not there any more so if you have visited that board over the years you may have seen some of them.See what you did Scrub Puller?LOL Ron G
Yair . . . RonG . I have never been over to the Red Power site and if you are prepared to post old pictures here I for one would be delighted . . . never had much to do with Internationals either so any commentary would be appreciated. Cheers.
Yep, used to do it Scrub back when all I had was muscle tilt. Most of todays "operators" don't even know what a friction is much less cross friction going downhill
This brings to mind the steering clutch lever adjustments on the TD-18 and was brought to our attention in heavy equipment school at ft leonard wood.The friction levers were hydraulic assist on them and the adjustment was on the individual spools that activated the assist as you moved the clutch lever and had to be done with the engine running of course. Ones preference would be to straddle the levers and bend over to make the adjustment with a couple of wrenches,the gotha part was when you overadjusted the steering clutch lever would activate itself and catch you in the where the light don't shine.Ron G
Sorry Scrub but it would be un Australian of me not to do a bit of stirring on this one. I think u mean the bad old days Su blades blade tilt pin select blade roll fast hydrolicks quiet air cabs oh and let's not forget power shift oh I love it all oh oh and electric start oooh yea ha ah ah lol. I do know what u mean though although I hate cable blades in timber direct drive is still the best and personally I think everybody should start out on open cab gear this teaches u to use the wind 2 ur advantage. Not to mention the old frame and strait blade still has it's place and the method of using them teaches u a bit.
Hey Cam85, we all like our comfort but even a young lady can operate these old cable machine. Just kidding. Of course we can probably not call push starting a 2U D8 operating in the true sense of the word. Heres a picture of my 9U D6 push starting my 2U D8. Both cable, the 9U has hydraulic tilt added by machining a shaft into the PTO and mounting a pump. Not live but sure beats turning the screw by hand.
Cam, don't forget air suspension seats. Best thing since sliced bread on a TTT unless you want to go home every night carrying your spinal column in a bucket..........
Nice looking cable dozers old-iron-habit . My first dozer was a cable blade HD 16 Allis - Chalmers with manual tilt . I really enjoyed that tractor , was a pleasure to operate . I later added hydraulic tilt using a 12 volt hydraulic power pack and mounted the toggle switch on the blade handle . Cut down the turnbuckle on the right side of the blade and welded a cylinder in to it . As far as operation , with a good cutting edge and proper positioning for the cut I never had much trouble with it . We ended up trading the old HD 16 on another piece of equipment .
Old iron nice picks the old 6 looks to b in good shape have u got any more? Hey Nige yes I love a good seat even the modern sprung high backed seat is big improvement on those old back wrecking things u would c in a say a d8k. But I must confess the really old seats like the sort of thing u would c in a d6c just Vinel stretched over foam on a bit of ply wood I diddent mind em and I reckon it teaches u to drive smooth
Yair . . . Looking at You tube over the years it looks like some folks don't realise that if you pull both clutches back together you can (to some extent) make your rear mounted PCU go "live" . . . very handy if you go in too low on a stump or your pusher too low when tipping out a tree. When scooping (towed scraper) in the days before power shift some fellers (on some tractors) got quite adept at going up and down through the box . . . my favourite was the three speed torque converter HD16. Bloke I moonlighted for on a road ran them flat chat which in third was close to 8mph. High balling back into to the cut scraper low, shut of the noise with the decel, bump the winch, give it a blip back into second then same thing back to low, sometimes you had to double clutch it but mostly you could suck them through just bumping on the winch . . . same thing loaded shifting up, once you got the hang of it a bump on the winch and double clutching would get you up to speed. It was much the same on the direct drive six speeds, I never drove them much but I think depending on conditions you skipped a few speeds up and down. Cheers.
Scrub u moonlighted no that's a terrible thing to say ( big grin ) Yea mate 6 speeds are the go love em plenty to choose from. ( what's the point of having teeth if u don't clean em ? Ha ah ha lol )
I did mean of the 9u but it's all good wow that's an old scoop I must say it looks bloody cold over there. If I ever get over there I'll have to come 4 a look. In the summer of course.
i love these threads
Oldiron I had a look on u tube I'm impressed the old wrist breaking grader's wow I can't believe they're still around. I really like the d2 5u and the d6 9u
I like these style clamp on blade teeth for breaking hardpan.
Yair . . . chevy43 . Good one mate, I haven't seen those for years. They do work well don't they? Do yours pivot up? Most of the ones I saw were not fixed at the bottom and you could drop them over a suitable pile of dirt, a rock or whatever and pin them up out of the way. Cheers.
Down all the time. When you are in hardpan you need it! When you are pushing fill it isn't in the way. The only time it is in the way is if you are trying to do a nice finish cut - but I do my finish work with a pull scraper. You can see the finish work with the tooth down in front of the TD-9 pulling the scraper.
Wow and I thought I knew a thing or to about old gear I never seen a pick on a blade b4
ESCO made a ripper that attached to the blade, was very similar to that one in the pics, it was adjustable so could be set up to fit any type of blade and could be put on of off in about 5 mins. WE used it on TD 15 B/Cs, real good for pioneering an access road in hard material, slide it across to the uphill corner of the blade and go for it. Didnt have rear rippers back then and even if u did this was better in that u didn't have to turn around all the time to rip a bit, turn around and push a bit and so repeat the process, as turning around on a track that was only a blade width wide on a steep hillside was a bit tricky sometimes as u would have to back up to a point that was wide enough to turn on.
I'm starting to think I've been spoiled with hyd and multishank rippers and blade tilt can't imagine working without em. Can't quite see the difficulty In spinning around though throw master clutch back up a bit to one side throw again pull steering clutch full on put foot on brake engage master clutch and spin on the spot. Can c the advantage in pick on the front though
Hey Cam85, I have all the original paperwork on the Model 11 from when it was ordered new in 1937 as a snow plow special. This summer I am going to try to get the original V-plow and wing installed. They both have after market power steering from the 60s, however the 11 was disconnected at the time due to some rebuilding we are doing in the control bank. The power steering pumps drive off off the live shaft running to the controls.
I can't quite figger out what you are doing there Cam but this is one of the things that Scrub Puller was referring to when he started this post.Those of us that started on the old cable dozers see a job based on what we learned years ago and don't really think about doing it with the 4 way or 6 way blades that we use nowadays and having those features just makes it easier for us.We actually had to relearn dozing once we factored in these new features.I think that the old guys had an appreciation for them that probably never crossed the mind of the next generation who never had to think about it.Ron G
Yair . . . RonG .Remember these? I first saw them on a little International they became quite popular and the mounts were often welded to the "C" frame rather than the blade. Actually I am surprised they are still made. Cheers.
What I figured out working with my antique equipment making building pads: What matters is the average of where I move dirt over the whole day. Tilts and angles of the blade don't affect that much if I have the room to point the dozer in the direction I want to push dirt. The blade on my all manual Bucyrus Erie is so difficult to change by myself I would always find a way to work around changing it. So I found that I can do almost all my work without changing it! I found I can tilt the blade by turning a little and the tractor will tilt towards the side the track is slipping on. Also by picking my path through my last cut's windrow I could start tilted either way I wanted. Also backing up the hill at an angle either way would start my cut with the tractor and blade tilted either way. The only time I have used the angle is when cutting a narrow road or parking spot on a hill. I do,also use manual tilt for that. My work only has to come out about right with the dozer because I clean it all up pretty with the pull scraper. A six way hydraulic is probably really nice in a very confined area but a dozer doesn't seem like the best tool for a small area where it can't maneuver . The truck winch on the blade was something I added to try and help me angle the blade by myself.
If you have the time to spend looking through my old Army posts you will see those scarifier teeth on the C frame of our TD-18s,you can see them I am pretty sure on the pics of the dozer on the low bed near the beginning of the thread,maybe the pic with the mine spoon on it.I think that I used them once while I was over there,it was more fun to do it the hard way, actually anticipating the day when I wouldn't have them. If you see the pics of me using the D-7 from sub post my buddy was pushing with my TD-18 in front of the school there,you can see them in that pic.You will see the rear double drum unit CCU in that pic too. I got a phone call from a friend in Drouin (SP) the other day.Ron G
I've never used a ripper on the back either. This hardpan up here is really tough! I don't know that a rear ripper would have had the pressure to break it up. I would back up the hill and with all the weight of the tractor and down pressure on the blade, drive that tooth into the ground. Then with full lift on the blade pull it up and break out a chunk. It was tough work on the old dozer. I have a big pull ripper and all it did was slide over the top of the hardpan.
How about that! An illustration of exactly what I was thinking... Thank you - you must have some good old books around....
Here are a couple of funny pictures of what happens when you try to angle the BE blade but forgot to hammer the wedges into the tilt first! First you pull the pin, then the arm swings to the side, then it slides off the blade tilt guide and falls on the ground, a moment later the the other side does the same! Takes 45min to an hour to get that all back together by myself.
Yair . . . chevy43 Woops! I didn't mean to post that without any words! What I was going to say was that a proper hydraulic ripper will exert more lifting pressure on formations than you can with a blade tine . . . and be much easier on the tractor. I stumbled upon the line drawing and thought it a good example of tine shape on the drawn ripper that wedges material upward and itself downward as it is drawn forward . . . rather more effective at penetrating I believe than the roundish shape on your machine that would be more suited to subsoiling . . . of course your machine would be more effective with just a single tine. I see time and time again that folks don't understand that rocks have a grain just like wood . . . rock will often rip or break out easier from one direction than the other and I have even had a "foreman" 'pull me into gear' for working at forty five degrees instead of back and forth in a road cut. Cheers.
That's the other way of looking at the picture too, I didn't think of.... I pulled both my outer teeth off and even the single tooth skidded over the top of the hardpan. I was going to try weights when I got my blade tooth and just learned to use that instead. The tooth has not lost one battle with the hardpan yet but it can be hard on the dozer. Interesting about the rock grain.. I imagine some types have more than others.
Yair . . . chevy43 . What a pain with the blade mate! . . . . Me thinks this idea more better . . . . Cheers.
I'd have to agree!
Finding the grain in the rock is half the battle sometimes and when u do its easier to rip from the shallow end to the deep end even if it means ripping uphill sometimes, depending on the type of rock, also ripping all points of the compass till u can find away to get the point in.
Yair . . . R.D.G013 Exactly! Watching jobs though these last few years I often think these simple basic techniques have been abandoned. Cheers.
chevy43, it might be worth having a look at your Track Groups as the plates seem to be going backwards, the chains are on the correct way but the plates look to be fitted a bit off kilter, nice tractor by the way. tctractors
Yes you are right - good eye!. There are 320 rusty bolts holding them on and I just haven't gotten around to tackling that job....
Awesome picks guys good reading to. Ron G that sounded a bit dangerous mate I think u will find that most operators my age don't know what a direct drive tractor is don't know what a pilot motor is don't know what a strait swing blade is and have only ever had an air cab. Now that's not me I do know what these thing are and I know how to use them. I was simply stating that I have never seen a ripper on a blade b4 and acknowledging the fact that the weath of knowledge accuired by the older generation is overwhelming at times. Well that's what I tried to do without pissing in anybody's pocket If I came across wrong I'm sorry
Yeah when u see some of the vids of dozers ripping, the operators have got no idea of what they are doing specially when it comes to adjustable rippers, they have the shank angle all over the place, makes a hard job out of an easy one, after seeing some of the vids on youtube I would hate to be the owner of some of those machines as they are just getting butchered.
Its called 'reading the rock'. 40 years ago I watched a muscle bound man beat the crap out of a rock with a sledgehammer for 3 hours. Another old guy came along with the same hammer; and within 20 minutes the rock was gone. His words were read the rock boy. they all have fault lines, its knowing where and how to hit or rip. :beatsme As for those horrible wedge blades; thank Christ I have never had the misfortune to meet them; I,d rather stick to the turnbuckles thanks. just turn the heel down and plough. The towed rippers in your pic Scrub, were called 'Ben Hurr' rippers over here; like the roman chariots.
No offense at all Cam,just admitting how difficult it was to think that all through when my mind would do it all automatically if I were in the seat.At my age you don't want to push the cells too hard trying to figure things out.Basically all that is involved is pretty simple bearing in mind that to get the machine in position all we need to do is get one track up on the winrow of the last push and get on with it.Ron G
Oh ok no problem yea the last batter I did I had to do it with strait blade no tilt and I was forced to remember the tricks of the trade I thought I had had my throat cut. My offsider at all of 21 thought it was madness watching me push a bit of dirt to where I wanted it so as to get my tracks in the right spot. Bloody painful and slow. I c the drag along ripper set up that would b a character building experience having one of those behind u all day imagine trying to find a Seam in rock with that how the hell do the cables not jump around with all the jolting and jarring that would rage in juicing at best at a guess
Gimme quad barrel rippers hanging on the back any day great for plucking out floaters. Speaking of hard rock year b4 last I did lease pad that had one hell of a shelf now in my mind the easiest way to deal with is to dig down beside it and break off one lump at a time but do think I could tell that to the young bloke on the d8t beside me I might as well have started talkin to the rock would have achieved more.