I would love to put that together.
I'll come help this looks like fun
I like working on the assembly of new kit - it's clean..........
Just mind fingers and toes, Unforgiving by sizes I see!!!
Nige are you in North America this time?
Hope that comes with instructions! At least something better than the grandkid's Legos! Just wondering if Cat tosses in a few extra parts like the Lego kits always do?
Nope. Back to the same place where I was previously. Since I left there 5+ years ago they'd cut staff to the bone and didn't have anyone spare to work with the assembly team. On top of the 994 there are six 789's and a couple of Hitachi's coming, all of which have to be put together by the end of the year. So I'm back as an outside contractor rather than a drect employee. The instructions could've been written by a left-handed chimp from what i can see. Made I larf ........ Fortunately it's not the first rodeo I've been to. We'll get them screwed together one way or another.
The truck threw me off in pic #2 on post #2. Import from North America to a little farther south I reckon?
You would be correct in that assumption.
Good luck and be careful with all the crap going around.
Maybe it's just me but TBH I feel safer on a mine site where I'm relatively solated and everyone else around me follows the rules religiously (because failure to comply will get them fired) than they tend to do out in the wider society. Instead of living in town like I used to I'm living in the camp on site. I get accomodated, fed, laundry done etc, etc and I have no reason (or desire) to step out of the gate unless it's to go to the airport.
I know everybody hates people who say, "I told you so"; but, I told you you wouldn't stay home for long.
Good Luck on the return to old ventures Nige, best regards as to a profitable event.
All that in four months? They must be paying well. Do you need any help?
Tooling included? May see another 'volunteer'!!
I volunteer to be the gopher, no pay needed. Nige when are you really going to retire ?
There will be more than one machine being assembled at a time. The 789's are coming in 2 batches of 3. Assembling a chassis is probably about 6 days work. There should be sufficient manpower & craneage to build 3 at a time. 994 12 days or so, Hitachi about 14 days. I pity anyone who ever has to change a cooler on this once it's installed up to the rear frame firewall ......
Probably a stupid question...... Do they use 1 big cooling fan or multiple smaller fans in this application?
It's been 16 years since I last touched a 994. I was in a little town called Round Mountain, Nevada. My dad and I had to tear it down and ship it back to Dallas, TX. Where we would go through it and convert it to joystick steering. Since we were shipping it to Texas we didn't have to tear it down all the way. We removed, bucket, loader frame, cab, catwalks, counterweight, and wheels. The company that was hauling it said that they could haul the rest on a beam trailer. After we removed everything we drove it over the beam trailer to remove the tires. Once we got it blocked up and the wheels removed the haul truck driver started to leave the yard. This machine was swaying big time on that beam trailer. We stopped the driver and told him that we needed to remove the final drives because of how much this thing was swaying. That driver told us that it wasn't necessary and he wasn't scared of the load. After failing to convince him otherwise. We told him that once you leave that gate the load is yours and don't call us if you change your mind. It wasn't an hour before he called and asked to come back to remove the final drives. My dad stood his ground and told him that the load now belonged to him and we aren't going to remove the final drives. It took 2 weeks for that load to go 250 miles to their yard in Las Vegas. That load blew out every tire on that beam trailer. I was told that they had to have a tire man chasing him all the way back to Vegas.
Are the bodies being assembled on site at the same time?
What are they mining there Sir Nige?
1 big one, hydraulically-driven. The bodies are arriving a couple of weeks ahead of the chassis. A local contractor will weld them up. Fortunately they are aftermarket and are coming partially assembled so they will not require as much welding as a factory body of the same capacity would. The famous "yellow metal".
KATCHING!! KATCHING $$$$$$$$$$$$
Joining the frames. The new model does not have the option of shipping with the two halves of the frame joined at the factory. I like liquid cold. It makes pins drop in far easier.......
Zip Ties?
There's one loose sleeve in the bottom side of the upper hitch assembly that has to be zip-tied in place to stop it falling out - unless someone wants to hang off a ladder and hold it in place with their hands while 30 tonnes of front frame is (potentially) trying to crush them against 70 tonnes of rear frame and rear axle combined. Seems kinda safer that way........
It's playing chess with large-size pieces.
I think it would be cool to be part of the assembly team and then to be the first one to stick the bucket into the dirt. I hope they use lots of anti seize. Great thread !
Now if I hadn't spy'ed those zip ties.
That big red jig is to hold things lined up while you install the pins? Much better than trying to nudge one of those frames a couple thousandths one way while you jiggle the pin in before it warms up?
A combination of the red jig and an expanding dummy pin seen in the same photo that goes in the lower pin bore to line everything up. The only problem we found was that despite the best efforts the alignment tended to creep off by a hair after removing the expanding pin. As you said it needs to be spot on to start with in order to avoid trying to do final alignment while the pin is warming up. A couple of come-alongs (see photo on post #27 and a good old-fashioned Mk1 eyeball sorted that.... both pins dropped in "slicker than a d1ck in a barrel of lard" to quote a former workmate of mine from many years ago.
Lots of good blocking, large cranes and plenty of rigging. Also looks like plenty of hands to accomplish the work. Must be nice to have all the right stuff for that kind of work.
Good point. The crane fleet is a 130RT, a 165AT, and a 250AT. So long as it's requested in advance we can have whichever of the three we ask for. Struggling with big lumps right on the edge of a crane duty chart is not my idea of fun. The assembly crew is 6 mechanics, usually split into 3 groups of two once the frames are joined and the axles are in. The crane ops and banksman/rigger are on top of that but they are only there when lifting is going on.
I don't know how it could be done any other way and be done on time, not a job to be f@rting around on .
Nige, When do you connect the cylinder rod eyes ? (steering, boom, etc. ) Noticed the red tie rod between the fore & aft bits in post #30. After engine start up or do you use an auxiliary hydraulic power pack to extend them ?
The stering cylinders are connected after engine startup which is one of the downsides of receiving the chassis in two pieces. Back in the day when it came in one piece the cylinders were already connected.
I’ve heard the K’s are a lot better than the H. That top auxiliary shaft through the guts is an awkward job
Remind me not to eat any fried food if I visit your former workmate!
The K's don't have the upper pump drive shaft. The main implement pumps & drive are mounted above the drive shaft from the converter to the transmission and about halfway between the two. The upper shaft is now only about 2ft long.
Its nice seeing something going together clean! LOL I was with an assembly crew back in the late 80's on 2 Manitowoc 4100's. Hell, I was in my mid 20 to late 20's and full of **** and vinegar. It was a great time putting those together..........BACK THEN! Looking at these great pics I know I have to leave this crap up to you youngers guys. At 57................All I see is alot of PAIN. Just looking at the work involved on these projects makes my entire body ache Keep up the great work Nige. I will live vicariously through you SIR!
I'm fast approaching the "three score and ten". What does that make me..?
I hope an owner or a supervisor!!!
There's not much space in that rear frame now. A view from the right side of the frame above the steering cylinder. Not that there was a huge amount of space in the previous models, but at least you could scoot round it and limbo dance over/under the drive shafts......
If by that you mean I get to tell people what to do, you're right. Problem is that frequently you also have to get in there and show them how to do it as well.
Old f@rt from the Isle of Old F@rts, I mean Isle of Man .
Older than some of us on here!! But not as old as dirt!!
let's see if I remember the Gettysburg address and do the math right I'm 3 score and 10 and closing in on six months!
For the internet challenged ... threescore is 60. Phrase "Threescore" formerly used for sixty, in the way that we still use a dozen for twelve, and (occasionally) score for twenty
The real question is - do you have to take your shoes off to count to "score"?
And if you take your shoes off to count to score, do you have to have someone else count your toes, because you can't see your toes?
Sometimes ... I have to get my wife to help find my glasses ... can't see them to find them. I'm a regular Mr. J. Quincy Magoo. I take them off to read or look closely at something. Then forget where I was. Obstruction in the sight line is a different situation if that's what you mean
It makes you my age Nige. Live for every day.
Used to work with an old fart. The look on his face was priceless when I asked him at coffee one day what dirt looked like when it was still clean.
Pretty cool to follow along Nige. The pic with the guy by the front really puts some scale to the size. You definitely win biggest toys contest.
Nige, has your son recovered okay? Neill
good to see you still having fun, know you have to love it looks good. and thanks for helping all of us.
There's a bunch of old guys on here Just turned 3 score ans 10 myself on July 3. Collected my 1st Social Security check, still working so I'm double dipping, living the dream LOL
So if you're still working does that mean you are helping fund my lazy butt?
It's the original {Go Fund Me}
Latest update. HeavyEquipmentForums
Not much happened today. Rain and/or thunderstorms stopped play for most of the day. Maybe got 2 hours work in if we were lucky. Tomorrow is already scrubbed on account of Tropical Storm Laura.
Back in the swing of things. Starting to look more like a loader.
Will it also receive the Chain tire covers seen on so many machines these days?
On the front tyres, yes. The rocks here are like razors. The chains will likely be one of the last things to be installed unless we fit them in on a night shift somewhere along the line.
Heavy Flint or Quartz content I take it
Not sure but it has lots of iron in it.
what yardage bucket will that one get?
And how many pounds per cubic yard ?
19 cubic metres heaped capacity. The material here is relatively heavy. It goes about 1.8 tonnes per cubic metre loose. A full bucket should be around 35 tonnes of material.
Fingers crossed the rain appears to have gone (we sent it to Texas apparently). In total bad weather has cost 4 days. Cooking with gas now.........!!
And you have how many of these to assemble?
Just this one, but then followed by two hydraulic excavators (one of them a 400-ton machine) and six 200-ton trucks.
Just got to get the paint off the bucket now............
That beast has some serious GET !
Next cab off the rank ...........
Awesome big Stuff!!
Easy to change as well. Half a turn with a 3/4" power handle on the locks (circled) on each side of the teeth or on the lip/sidebar protectors and off they come.
Very neat. Thanks for sharing.
Used to be called Capsure. Wonder why they changed the name?
Pretty simple Expected lifespan of GET?
Looks like fun. Strange "flow" block on the side of the bucket? Trying to save wear just in that area?
Protecting the front tyres from sidewall cuts. Not sure about these particular ones. I’ve seen 994’s go through a set of teeth in less than 200 hours - in abrasive rock obviously.
I believe it’s to push rocks away from tires
That is a LOT of iron to change at 200 hours!!
Big machines mean big bucks. If you can't afford the GET, you sure can't afford the machine.
You know it's serious when the bucket teeth have lift eyes...... Good stuff, thanks Nige! Ed
Awesome pics Nige! Keep them coming. What model Hitachi is that?
No idea, but they are now available for the 300-series line of excavators and most of the wheel loader line instead of just mining machines as it was when Capsure GET was first introduced. *Hint: - Turn the sound down first
EX1200-7, to be followed by an EX3600-6 in a couple of months.
Forward digging shovels?
This 1st one will be configured as a backhoe. The 3600 is coming with both front shovel and backhoe equipment. The customer hasn't decided yet which one they want installed on it when it goes to work.
A bit like walking into a Rolls-Royce/Bentley/any Italian sports model showroom and asking "how much"..?
@ 200 hours only the teeth would get changed. The protectors for the tooth adapters, lip & sidewalls would last probably 5 times that at least.
How many pounds does the tooth weigh ? I can't imagine the various lifting eyes on the other protectors don't survive more than a couple of shifts.
I'm sure that's true, but when they get changed they get knocked off and would be a lot lighter than when they are new and need to be lifted on.....
About 130Kg each.
And of course that famous invention of Sir Isaac Newton is your friend when you come to get them off ........
Gravity and Leverage, God's better inventions.
As to the cost of things. I would have to go with a quote of a guy who before he worked at the shop had his own shop that mostly worked on over the road truck used to explain the cost of repairs. "Big trucks, Big bucks!"
286 pounds for us Americans .... Hernia maker or gut buster for sure without a hoist ..
Grab two under each arm and go for it!
That is probably ten days work. Think of all the mines in the world and all the big pieces of steel they turn into metal shavings in a day. There would have to be lots of foundry's making lots of wear bits and pieces to keep up.
Nah........ bar through the lifting eye and a guy on each end of it. Piece of cake.. It makes you wonder. Currently Esco want our GET requirements broken out by Quarter for next year 2021 by the end of August (last Sunday in other words) at the latest so that they can schedule it into production. They don't keep stock any more.
Nige, being your workplaces can be in the middle of BF nowhere and the guys repair and assemble big azz equipment...where do you source the tools from to do everything? Ed
They come from everywhere TBH. Hytorc & RAD tooling as well as the big (200T) lifting jacks all comes out of the Hytorc dealer for the area. We have up to 6,000ft lb torque tightening capability. Tyre handling equipment is IMT. A lot of the specialised component manipulation tooling comes out of Australia - http://www.hedweld.com.au/product_category/trilift/
Nothing from Harbor Freight?
Impressive jacks.
Self-propelled as well. A 12V battery and a motor so no struggling to get them into position under the machine. https://www.durapac.com/product/sdl-jack/
You have all the cool toys Nige. I really have enjoyed watching the assembly so far.
I'm surprised I don't see anything under the jacks to prevent them pressing their base plates into the ground. Is the gravel packed that tight that you are comfortable with that?
I would imagine the ground surface layers are hard as a bullet, JMO. Where I use to live hard pan layer could run as much as 4' deep. A D8 with single shank would just bounce.
The mine is basically a mountain of solid rock with shed-loads of iron (and yellow metal) in it. The assembly pad is 3ft of crushed, graded, & compacted rock on top of solid. It has a consitency somewhat like concrete.
Some great hungi stones cummin your way aye bro
Esco being the world leader in GET for that size equipment and they make only to order quantitys that seems like a bean counter solution to an imaginary problem
Actually, I don't blame them for the just in time type delivery. What they had issues with in the past was thousands of tons of stock sitting on pallets in an open yard down in Portland, Oregon. That puts you in cash flow danger and encourages corporate raiders to swoop in and take you over. Last time I was by there, the yard was nearly empty.
The same story I heard from a couple of Esco reps was that stockpile was the result of the ego of one man in Sales. Suffice it to say that he no longer works for Esco.
The same in another brand of equipment-Freightliner Surplus. Freightliner has three main buyers that buy assembly line, shipping damaged, or fabrication over runs. To keep them cleaned out. The nearest, biggest and first inline buyer is in Hermiston Or. I can buy a new MT-39 starter for 100.00, Rear brake rotors to me 100.00. Fuel tanks, steps, hoods, doors, bumpers, what ever. They buy van loads of the stuff. https://hagermanparts.com/truck-parts
Not to hi-jack In this photo above where it looks like a wall of parts-it is full of bins of parts that run all the way to the right and to the buildings and the buildings are full of surplus parts. Plus at the time I took this photo there were two van loads that just came in that needed to be sorted. Stuff everywhere. Weller/Jasper buy's every core rear drive or transmission that they are willing to let go. Plus what is shipped out to Vander Haag's. A huge clearing house.
It was there .............. And now it's gone ...............
Stupid question . The machine is new but why do the rear tires look smaller and worn?
Got a bit of catching up to do photo-wise...........
It could have a lot to do with the perspective from which the photo was taken. The rear tyres are actually brand-new. The front wheels (also equipped with new tyres) look bigger because of the chains. I would have put worn tyres on the front to even up the difference a bit but there were none available at the time they were needed. Even so the difference in sizes between front and rear still falls within guidelines.
In case anone asks, the procedure to mount the upper frame on the tracks is shown below. The sketches are from the assembly procedure because I didn't get chance to take any photos. Lift the upper frame wwith 2 cranes and move to the rear over the top of one track and fire the bolts in. Then block the front of the carbody high enough to be able to slide the 2nd track iframe nto place. We used two cranes, one on each end of the track frame, to avoid possible sling contact with the cab. Install hardware and torque.
Photo perspective ... thing in front look bigger. (That's why you hold the fish in front of you) ...Plus the tire chains ...Tires don't have many voids in those sizes, see Nige's previous photos.
Nige... The bolts holding the carbody to the tracks. The white marks show torque turn to tighten or tightened to final torque?
Nothing more complicated than a straight 2950 ft.lbs. on the Hytorc. The paint marks are what we put on every bolt, no matter how small or how large, once it's been tightened to spec. When the final walkaround is done in theory it should be easy to spot anything that hasn't been tightened because it won't have a mark on it.
How big a pipe do you need to put on the ratchet to get that kind of torque
Quite right. Here is the illustration from the Michelin catalogue showing the tread pattern. You don't need an aggressive tread on a machine like this, the 250 tons weight of the loader keeps the rubber firmly in contact with the ground. New tread depth is only 4.5".
Nothing like Tonnage to set traction!!
And yet I still manage to slip and fall on ice
We do not have appropriate Tonnage to footprint, these machines are bit more secure in contact points with four as opposed to our two. Have seen a few do the side slip on slick!! Lime dust in the old quarries was just Snot Slick when really wet!!
Been there done that with 773B models and the first traction controls that I ever worked on. Our roads were steeper, the corners were a lot sharper and the driver's treated the trucks like four wheelers on a dirt racing track. The material was glacial till and this is western Washington State with the associated amount of wet. You would see trucks sliding broad side most of the way into the pit and coming to a stop under the wheel loader buckets without making a 3 point. Tire costs were immense.
Brakes on the old Eucs were next to useless most of the time, pit monkeys were BAD for doing similar and the side scars where they used the haul road wall as a Friction brake were obvious.
I recall working on a 773B something about not shifting as I recall probably the switch at the transmission that moves in sequence with the one in cab to keep things in sync. Anyhow running empty down a little used haul road flat out to make sure it had all the gears. Then decided to hit the brakes like you would on an old R-35 Euclid! Yikes glad the road was nice and wide so I had time to straighten it out!
The old R-35's were not too bad despite what I just wrote but you had to have everything up to snuff and adjusted just right. Some time the parking brake would actually hold on grade, if it had a good drum on the back the CLBT5860 Allison and the cable was not rusty and stiff. Although on a couple of the R-35-B Terex trucks which were basically Euclids built in Brazil we had added Maxi-cans to the front brakes and installed air chambers to work the parking brake on the transmission. Even with all that still had to get things set up right to pass MSHA brake tests for parking brakes.
Too new for what I worked LOL!! Newest was a R24 and a couple R 25s Most of them were R10s 15s a few bigger 35s and a couple oddball Terex when they merged
Talking about traction Here is a sequence of events from a Cat 785D haul truck VTMS report working in slippery conditions this is from early model machines and the ECM strategy was not quite right it is very rare for this to happen to current machines Operator applies service brakes Rear wheels lock up and transmission down shifts to second gear operator releases brake rear wheels regain traction machine is still in second gear engine spped increases to a level three event of over 3000 RPM
The result one toasted 3500 series engine
We had loads of those in 1HL-prefix 793B & 4AR-prefix 793C's back about 20 years ago, but the ones we had were on dry roads and were a result of a "hole" in the EPTC-II software that would force a downshift from 5th or 6th to 1st if the truck lost Transmission Output Speed (TOS) signal due to a connector or wiiring harness fault. The signal had to come back again at or close to zero, the control (which had been holding in gear as a result of the loss of TOS signal) would think the signbal was genuine and call for a transmission downshift. The fix was a software that used the engine speed sensor to ratify the TOS signal. I recall working over a weekend in our CRC with a guy from Cat TBU to re-chip (no flashing in those days) probably close to 200 EPTC-II controls with the chip containing the updated software. I well remember the Diagnostic Code they used to throw just before everything went t!ts-up - MID 27 CID 718 FMI 11. Edit: just looked back through my files and there were actually 23 engines that we knew about. There may have been others in the same time period that were put down to different circumstances.
We still had those issues with the TOS on the early D series as well. I just pulled the above case out of my files as it was a loss of traction issue
I love hearing about engineering failures, engines disintegrating, crap coming apart because of silly *** computer controlled systems. We get what we ask for.
Ouch and Yes we do generally ask for it
Seems that the average mechanic could have thought this through better than the programmer that designed it. "What happens when the VSS goes bad?" The question was probably never even asked let alone attempted to answer before released to the field. Just ship it and let warranty work the kinks out. Never mind the customer.
You hit that one on the head VB.
The bosses next move is to install automatic chains on 75% of the tractors, we already have five that have it because the drivers are 65 plus years old and can't throw chains, what about the trailer? On those rigs with auto chains those same rigs have disc brakes, in order to inspect the brake pads you have to remove the drive wheels each time because you can't see the pads with the auto chains in the way, you can barely reach the fill plugs. I asked The boss when are you going to buy the shop a 200 ton post lift so we can lift truck and trailer together--Crickets. People and there automated crap. Sorry for the hi jack Nige. I left out the Freezer plant that went robotic loading-in the first four months damn near 30% of the loads were wrong, seems the robot couldn't get the bin/shelf location right. Ordered onion rings and got Hog rotten potato's instead.
Lets get the smart humans back in the equation !
And if it wasn’t for some of the smart humans kicking around the software developers would be in even deeper **** than they would be otherwise.....!!
Just watched a show on air plane disasters last night. In this one the dash indicators for the pilot and co-pilot were connected to separate inertia sensors that gave read outs to whether the plane was climbing or diving. If they did not agree there was a indicator that popped up to alert the pilots to the fact that there was a discrepancy. This was suppose to tell the pilots to check a different gauge to determine which was the correct reading. Well if the pilots did not respond within something like four seconds the computer would switch to a "de-clutter" mode to simplify the screen the pilots had to deal with. Problem is one of the indications that were removed from the screens was the warning that the two pitch indicators were not agreeing with each other! As this was a night flight the pilots had no visual indication of the horizon to go by and the fact they were in a fast nosedive they did not have any sense of gravity to go by and they hit the ground at about 600 mph actually slightly inverted. Needless to say no survivors. Good thing, if there can be in this situation, is this was a freight plane with not passengers so only the two pilots killed. I can only hope that who ever designed that soft-ware was made aware of this screw up!
The co-pilot realized there was a problem, capt. ignored him. Capts. gyro went flooly) They never looked at the 3rd indicator, which would have shown the copilot;s was correct. A glance at the altimeter and airspeed would have con rimed they were diving and and gaining speed.
It's why I prefer to walk or drive, propellers and such can go along ways into the ground. Nothing there I wanted to see anyway.
My late father (ex-RAF WWII) always opined - "Only fools & birds fly, and even birds don't fly at night."
I'm not fond of modes of travel where the failure mode of the machine means death of the crew and passengers. I can pull my car or motor cycle to the side of the road if the engine quits running. Doesn't work that way for a plane in the air or a ship on the ocean.
Nor a space craft. A piece of machinery with millions of critical parts built by the lowest bidder *. Even "pulling over" ie. stopping propulsion is death, Celestial mechanics are precise and unforgiving. * May not be true of private space companies SpaceX. Blue Origin. Virgin Galactic.
My idea of a ship is the bow could be in the middle of the Pacific and the stern at the shore line. A crop duster pilot that I knew here in town would say {altitude is a pilots best friend}.
Nothing like the lonely feeling you get the first time on the ocean and all you see is water and sky. I thought the ship I was on was pretty big when it was next to the pier when I reported to it. First time at sea for me on that hole in the water was off Cape Hatteras doing sea trials in a storm. At that point I wasn't sure that floating pus pocket was big enough.
Hey Nige. Cheeky question.. after the 994 had its tune up done and left the pad, how many hours to the first breakdown and what was it? Work on 996 diggers at the mo, they are going through their midlife rebuilds and one had quite a few o rings let go in the first week
I my a leaking joystick control so far. Replaced the complete assembly, it was quicker than trying to pull it apart to find which seal was leaking. Last thing I wanted was having to clean a hydraulic oil spill inside the cab, the operators would never quit whinging about the smell. I put that one down to “infant mortality”. Nothing major hydraulic has let go so far.
No offence but I’d be looking at the installation & tightening process if that happened to me. First thing I’d be checking is how the flanges were tightened and do the gutters have a custom of paint-marking hardware as it is tightened.
Nige... I noticed different colors of marks on the fasteners. Assigned colors to each fitter for accountability ? ?
Correct
That should be “fitters”..... blasted autocorrect
Oh no offence taken. I’m not on the rebuild crew and I agree. One was def left loose, pilot hose on the bottom of the valve bank. The other that I saw was a D ring that must have gotten pinched as the hose was gotten into location. -32 6 wire hose that have the flanges mounted on the hose are quite difficult to get into place unfortunately
Yeah, I thought you called them "gutters" because they gutted that machine...
Cummins and Detroit finally started that program a few years back, and same on some parts of cab/ chassis assembly. One batch of tractors we got the bell cranks on the wiper assemblies were never tightened. Well first it was the factory never installed the fuse, great pre-delivery inspections.
We had one show up without the fuse for the engine fan no one could figure out why the fan ran all the time
We were marking torqued bolts in 78 when I worked for the IH dealer. I don't know how many times I had to tell wrenches from other dealers to do it over the years. Even the guys from the Cat dealer back in those days never carried a paint pencil.
On the last Cat plant tour I was on a couple years ago, even the assembly line robotic torque wrenches marked each bolt they tightened to spec, with the correct amount of turns also counted, with a red paint dot.
I always used a marker when torquing rods, mains and cylinder head bolts plus mark the overheads as those are adjusted.
It’s nothing more than simply a good practice & certainly not rocket science..
Speaking of paint pens, does anyone have a recommendation for one that works without having to fiddle with it for 2 minutes everytime I use it after it has sat for a week or two to get it to work right? I buy the ones our welding supply here has and it seems like they are a pain.
I find the key is to store them upright. Still have to fiddle but not as long.
For fiddling you need to go to Weiser, Id. for the old time fiddlers contest.
These are what we use. The mutt's nuts. Never had a problem with them.
Hi I have spent time in the DR training aircraft mechanics on a new aircraft they had purchased for commuter traffic.
I worked there for 7 years from 2008. I liked the place, just found the Domnicans a bit on the loud side for my taste. Nothing wrong with a tropical climate unless you take into account the hurricanes ......
Well here are the next two cabs off the rank. TBH it's far easier to assemble them more than one at a time. It appears as though the local transport contractor has finally joined the 21st Century - note the steerable trailer axles. .
I imagine doing two or more at a time would be easy, just rig up to mount a component on one and when that is done you just move to the next one instead of having to store all the tooling away and wait for the next truck to show up a couple weeks latter. Then have to pull it all out again.
It also means you can sit the crane so that it has lifting capacity to cover both chassis and do all the heavy lifting from one spot without having to move it. Crane operators love that.
Don't be making things easy for crane operator now.
You know what crane operators are like. Takes what seems like all day to get them started then you ask them to move and everything stops again. I need to get these things put together some time this year, not this century. Preferably by next weekend.........
I know what truck drivers are like. My favorite truck driver joke. What's the difference between a puppy and a truck driver??? The puppy stops CRYING after awhile. LOL
Difference between a jet engine and a farmer-the jet engine stops whining when it gets to Hawaii.
Pile on, you comedians, pile on
Two buzzards were sitting on a powerline the first time they saw a jet fighter go by. One says to the other look at that thing go. The other one says you'd go fast too with two burning azzholes.
Well at least the rest of the bits have rocked up.
YEE HAAAA! The next round is fully underway!!
Any idea where I could get a good crane operator from..?
Branson MO!!
There are several that live in Pasco Wa that work for Lampson you could probably hire.
Great post. Thanks for sharing it all
Reminded me I should have uploaded more photos......... Weather (rain & tlightning) has been the biggest enemy. Certainly has posed problems keeping on schedule. Hard to imagine when all the photos show blue sky and sunshine but I'm not going out in the rain just to take photos. Tomorrow the front one should get its boots on ready for the body to go on it Tuesday.
In case anyone asks, the outside of each fuel tank has been coated with Rhino liner in the areas where it gets blasted with water & mud from the roads. There are a lot of problems with corrosion on this site because the ore is basically an iron formation. Water Ph can be as low as 2.5, so acid that sheet metal can rot before your eyes.
Dang I should have patented that idea back in 2010 when I had to replace the outer 1/2 of a hyd. tank on a 769D due to rust. Would be interested in seeing if 10 years later if it is still holding up. Did a few other tanks after that on haul trucks and I believe a couple loaders.
I'm surprised they don't have an option for a special coating from the factory or use a more corrosion resistant steel where corrosion is a problem.
Don’t need it that often if seldom at all so stock works and the manufacturer gets more parts sales!! Almost be better to build them of polypropylene plastics but size becomes daunting for stability
Once again this goes back to the "posssible vs practical" debate from another thread. Why would the manufacturer even consider it if only a handful of mines all over the world suffer from the issue.? In over 40 years in mining this is the only place I know of like this, or at least to this extent. They tried that on motor grader fuel tanks about 10 years ago - but spectacularly failed to consider the effect of pressurized refuelling systems that can pump up to 300 GPM..... back to steel tanks we go then...
I did some work for a guy who was doing a complete rebuild of cats biggest motor grader. I think it was a 160, but can’t remember now. The company that was buying the grader sent a guy up from Australia to check on the progress of the build. I got to talking with the guy and he told me that they were mining for gold in a volcano. He was telling me that between the salt air and volcanic gases the machines only lasted 2-3 years before needing to be replaced. He also told me that because of the corrosion they only buy used equipment and have it completely rebuilt. I was amazed by that and the fact that they were stripping down a volcano.
Thanks Nige, Explosive at that point Not So Good!!
Extracts from Service documentation ............. "existing fuel tanks have distorted enough to interfere with the operation of the engine enclosure doors. A new stiffer fuel tank is used. The stiffer fuel tank distorts less than the existing fuel tank." ".....a maximum rate for filling the fuel system exists. The maximum rate for filling the fuel system is 380 L/min (100 US gpm). Two problems may occur if you exceed the maximum rate for filling the fuel system. The fuel tanks may become pressurized The fuel tanks may balloon."
I don't know how big of a problem it is but it would seem that when you're buying million dollar plus machines an option for a more corrosion resistant coating wouldn't be unreasonable. Some manufacturers will custom paint to the customers specs.
It's nowhere near as big a problem as you imagine it is. With all due respect it's far easier (and much cheaper) to do it at this end. I can get a tank turned round in a couple of days from a local supplier who has done it dozens of times before.
It must not be too big of a problem. I thought it would be better/easier to apply something to the steel before the final paint, maybe a special primer for extreme duty applications. There's options for just about everything else so why not corrosion protection options.
You can think what you like but again I have to refer you back to the "possible vs practical" practical debate again. The simple answer is that the OEM's do not have infinite resources, despite what those of us who work on the equipment in the field would wish for. In these days of companies being run by accountants it's even harder to get stuff done.
Cat already has different types of paint and they could charge extra for a specific type to be used.
Any colour you like so long as it's yellow..? Dave I'm done discussing this point with you. Let's agree to disagree and move on, othewrwise I'll ask a mod to lock this thread.
Not disagreeing just thought corrosion might be a bigger problem in certain areas and there might be something to help combat it from the factory. Apparently on later model machines like mine with dry clutches they put some kind of corrosion protection in the clutch compartments. I don't know if it's a coating or some kind of desiccant. When I did my steering clutches I thought it could help but couldn't find anything about what exactly it is. How much longer will the Rhino liner last or does it get reapplied after a few years?
The manufacturer makes the machine and only offers a few modifications that make economical sense to them. Cat has a build book for each machine and things like special paints, metals and other materials are not in that book. Any special modifications are usually done by the dealer who sold it. Many times it's just cheaper to do it yourself. The factory doesn't give a rip about making machines any different if it doesn't pencil out in the end.
I guess different manufacturers have different options. I've seen other machines that can be painted to customer requirements. Thought there might be options for machines working in salt water environments as an example.
Have you seen any auto manufacturer apply special paints because the car is in the snow and salt in the winter?
No but step-daughter's husband just bought an F250 Super Duty Ford. Not sure he liked it when I made the comment that the body was made from recycled beer cans! See he was bragging that he didn't have to worry about it rusting from stone chips from the oversized tires that hang a couple inches beyond the side of the body!
Deere offers special paints to sunbelt rentals but they order anywhere from 300 to 600 backhoes a year and they will do a run of at least 20 at a time Knowing what I know about factory and all the options in a the build book there are to many options now that get screwed up by the time it gets to the customer But for what iron costs these days you would think you could get any paint you want
Wow, PH 2.5, I bet your corrosion problems are bad as mine. The problem I've seen with Rhino lining is that if any corrosion gets behind it, it peels off in sheets. How are they prepping the surface?
There is a lot more rust proofing on vehicles today than there used to be. You can get a factory sprayed box liner and there are other options at the dealer level.
I paid 94 bucks for a quart of plain white paint the other day.that may have something to do with it
All the Bobcats that are not white are painted off site. The sunbelt ones go to a few sandblast and paint shops around the area to get the ugly green paint. My brother ran the paint/ powder coating line at the Bobcat plant in gwiinner for 5-6 years. When they are making 150 machines a day its almost impossible to throw in a few odd colored ones.
That's my point. You can get anything you want, it's just that the dealers do it. The factory supplies a base unit. It wasn't too many years ago that no factory built a logging shovel. In 1980 I worked with another guy and installed a thumb and a Link-Belt. Link-Belt probably still doesn't install a thumb on their machines. All Komatsu PC400-3 log loaders were built in Kent, Wa. by McDonald Industries. All the Komatsu WA600 log loaders were built there as well. After that the shovels were built by Pierce Pacific. I worked at a mine that had Haulpak trucks. The front wheels would pack mud onto the front frames where the steering and brake valves were mounted. The factory rep was there on my request of a follow up when the mine manager came over to whine about the mud problem. The looked him straight in the eye and told him,"we sold you a truck, what you want to do with it we have no control over, so we are not obliged to help you abuse the machine." He then told us that another end user hung big mud flaps over the valves to prevent the packing. They knew of the problem but they had to produce the machine for a set price. Here is what you get for this much money, period Unless and until a manufacturer sees a way to make a profit on an add on, they won't do it.
Ok guys this is getting way off track. Nige got any more photos???
Agressively sandblasting to bare metal with the largest size grit available. It seems to stick reasonably well but the tanks are pulled off every couple of years and re-coated.
Another thing worth pointing out is that these tanks get effectively sandblasted by wet road grit all the time the trucks are running. Roads are watered constantly for dust control purposes so the surface is always wet-ish. That creates an extremely abrasive acidic gunk that the tyres are constantly throwing at the tank. No paint on earth is going to stand up to that for long, the Rhino coating is the best thing we've found to stand up to it.
Photos of the Pit on a Dreary Day??
Not exactly recent but gives an idea how miserable it is when it rains. The only upside is that it's not cold - currently 80 and overcast. Lashed it down with rain a couple of hours ago.
Taken just now. Note how we are above the clouds.
Can see the Glue Like mud hanging off all the machines, Nasty!!
Wanna see one close up.? This one came off the wash rack at lunchtime, 8 years old, 56k hours. That's as clean as it will ever get. Note the Coke-coloured stains on what's left of the paintwork - oh, and the corrosion. That's the iron in the water and the only way to get those stains off is to shotblast the paint off with them, but if you did that the whole thing would likely fall apart.
The only thing worse is equipment used around fertilizer, instant rot from day one, brass air fittings are toast in three years. There is no paint that will stand up to it. Wrenches and sockets don't bother waste of time on bolts-torch them off.
Been down that road TS and Lime Quarry muck, pH so HIGH it literally lifts paint. I feel for the wrench benders there Nige, has to be tough, gas axe and all. Harder still to weld that powdered iron.
Elevation?
I almost bought a skid steer that came out of a fertilizer plant a couple years ago. Looked great driving up to it with the fresh paint job, but tilt the cab and every nut, bolt, fastener, etc was rusted out horribly. Needed new steel hydraulic lines, etc. My grandpa talked some sense into me about it and I walked away. His words were "if it seems to good to be true, it probably is.
ya, I can see why corrosion is a problem Nige. So whats the life expectancy of the loaders and trucks you are assembling now? Do you do a total rebuild once or twice? more?
2000ft ASL approx. The "jungle" causes queer weather patterns after it's rained. Total truck life is set at 150,000 hours. That will include a frame refurb at about 80k. Planned component replacement every 18-20k hours based on condition. So planned for seven rebuilds in the total life of the machine. A rebuild comes in at less than half the price of a new truck.
Here in West Aus they use the ground water for wetting the roads and it’s quite saline. Used to see rubber mats used on some of the tanks, other ones had a second sacrificial metal plate. On one site the figured out that the down time for all the extras falling off causing breakdowns wasn’t worth is so took everything off. They just replaced the tanks when they rotted out. On an other site I was on, to make matters worse, the extra filtration they spec’d that went on the inside of the 793f tanks here caused them to crack badly on virtually every one.
Do they run them with no dust bowl when it rots off?
Yep, until the next overhaul at least when it will get complete new/refurbed air cleaner boxes. Dust isn't too much of an issue what with all the rain and watering the roads. Can't do that here, the water is too acid. The dust suppression water actually comes from a lagoon where the water has been treated to get it somewhat close to Ph neutral.
Probably a cover story. It was a secret volcano lair they were making.
Still assembling the big stuff Nige?
Affirmative. Just finished these three......
Then yesterday this big boy rocked up.
Where does a guy apply for this job looks like fun to me.
South America!!!!
Believe me it is. Can you speak fluent colloquial Spanish..?
No Habla Espaniola!!!!
Or "No fumar Espanol" as one of my old mates always used to say whenever he got pulled by the local cops.......
Well there need to be some learning going on in that department I currently speak fluent western Pennsylvania. I guess that what happens when you live by a crick.
I use to work with a Mexican that if you asked him how long it would take to do a job, instead of saying half an hour it was {heff nower} and it was a heff nower to do anything. Actually he was pretty funny and good to work with.
Ha! That reminds me of a story that makes a good thread hijack. Back in 2009 the wife and I along with 2 other friends, our 80 lb rottie and their 10 lb malti-poo decided to load up in a 10 year old Honda Pilot and head towards Panama (the wife and I were living in Costa Rica at the time ). Side note you might be cool, but you're not driving down the Pan American highway going to Panama with Van Halen's Panama blasting through the speakers with 4 adults and 2 dogs stuffed in an undersized worn out SUV cool - or just that crazy. After an exhausting 6 hours at the Costa Rica/Panama border where we finally had to bribe the Panamanian official to stamp our dogs paperwork we were on our way again. It wasn't 10 mins into the drive through Panama that the Gringos got pulled over in a traffic stop. There were 4 policeman on the side of the road complete with their AR's probably paid for with our tax dollars.. My friend driving was smoking a Marlboro red as he rolled the window down to see what this shakedown was going to cost. The officer told him that smoking was bad and he shouldn't do it. Friend replied I know. Officer - you need to put that out now! Friend - where? He was being a smart ass. The officer pointed to the gutter as this road actually had a concrete gutter. Friend flicked said cigarette into said gutter. After a couple of minutes back and forth, with various passports including the dogs paperwork with the stamps we bribed the official back at the border, we were allowed to go on our way with no cash out of our pockets. Moral of the story - 10 years ago smoking was very, very bad in Panama even in your own car but littering isn't an issue. Anyone that has spent any time in Central or South America can relate.
I can hijack my own thread.......... Reminds me of a story from Africa. A guy working for Bell Field Service had been camping with his mates in the bush for the weekend. On their way back to town late Sunday arvo they came across a police traffic stop. Picture the scene - African policeman, shorts, shirt with creases like razors in it, shoes so polished they were like mirrors, the works. (This was back in the Good Old Days) Cop: Good afternoon sir. Russ: Good afternoon to you. Cop: Where have you come from sir? Russ (pointing over his shoulder): I come from back there. Cop: Where are you going sir? Russ (pointing down the road): I going that way. Cop: OK sir. please proceed.
The Giant slumbers..........
Nice pic. Do you get to do some of the hands on work Nige, Or is your specialty organizing and logistics. I would imagine it takes a lot to get it all done correctly and in a safe manner.
A bit of both TBH. Right now I'm working on scheduling the transport from the port of the parts for the Hitachi 3600 (44 pieces/450 tons approx), the next truck (13 pieces about 100 tons) and a dump body (fortunately only 1 piece) all to arrive over the next few days. Most of the guys doing the hands-on work have never done this before, so there's a fair bit of "show & tell" going on as well. Unfortunately the assembly manuals don't necessarily do it the most convenient way either. As an example why on Earth would one install the cab on the chassis then start mounting platforms, handrails, mirrors, lights, fenders, & air filter, etc, when it's already 10+ft up in the air.? Why not pre-assemble everything on the ground then just have to tighten the mounting hardware and make the electrical, air, & hydraulic hookups working off a set of steps once its in position.? I know which I prefer but that's not the way the book says to do it, and in absence of any information to the contrary that's exactly the way these guys would do it without some form of external input. It's the "work smarter not harder" deal ....... There's also a lot of little things that are not in the manual that just come from having done it before and that you do without thinking.
Here's a case in point. if the corner of the bracket is not ground off then when the exhaust tubes are installed the support can't be adjusted correctly in the slotted holes and the complete exhaust system fails to line up. It's a lot easier taking 30 seconds to grind the corner off before welding it in place than it is trying to do it when it's buried under two 12" diameter exhaust tubes and you're trying to work lying upside down off the top of the steering hydraulic tank. Little things like that when added up can save hours on an assembly.
It might make more sense with the rest of the photos .......
Quality Enganearing at its finest, the retro Re-fitting is a sure sign of Craftsman.
It's a pi$$er not being able to pick up the phone and talk to a factory engineer like I used to be able to in a former life, and just get it changed a hair so the field re-fitting would not be necessary.
At my last employer who was a Cat dealer, a call to the factory for the most part was a complete waste of time. I had used machines being stuffed into my department to facilitate a sale on a new machine because of problems that became unsolvable on the used ones. On the last issue I told the service department to shove off with the factory and went to the lead welder and asked him to take a look. He fixed the problem in about two hours by recognizing the issue and designing a lasting fix. The "engineers" at Cat wasted our time and cost us a ton of money because of their arrogance and inability or reluctance to acknowledge that maybe they could be wrong about something.
Mining dealers like the one I used to work for could generally shout louder. Having over 10k employees world-wide even back then helped. In the mining equipment worlld I met some great and some not-so-great factory engineers, quite a few of whom became friends. My black book was full of phone numbers for everything from engines to diffs, chassis to final drives and everything else in between. However all this was 15+ years ago. Uncle Cat is a mere shadow of his former self these days and nostalgia isn't what it used to be...........
Was discussing this with JY earlier. Several years ago I still had contacts at a local CAT Dealer, good hands, find anything even seriously obscure I could come up with. Alas they have retired, the ones left cannot find the collective asses without a PC. Enganears seem intent on making nothing serviceable.
Same here... After many years in the company, built up a network of sources that could get the brain trust working. With the various buy-outs and division sales, the connections were lost... Like a lobotomy... Getting things done was harder, slower, and much more expensive. The corporate big wigs don't seem to appreciate the institutional knowledge that gets lost.
After I mostly gave up my coveralls, I worked a bit for Deere and CAT dealers, from paper books through Microfiche and on into JDIS and CAT SIS... the industry standard attitude was you only needed the three "P's" to be a parts tech, Present with a Pulse and a Pencil. No brains or sense required. As they went computerized and the CAD guys made the parts pictures, the engineers made thousands of instant revisions a month and new designs went from mainframe to obsolete at dizzying speeds, the ability to learn and remember details about any make and model became almost impossible. As the tech became... better? No. Just more complex as they constantly added "features" most of us had no use for, it became harder and harder to find actual information. And of course as the computers were marketed as labor and time saving, the number of people in the system shrunk, along with the loss of knowledge and experience. The Portland CAT dealer turfed me out in 2002 along with a baker's dozen others from around the company, all men or women in their forties with typically twenty years in yellow iron. Why? We were expensive. The older guys were coasting into retirement and it would look bad to lay off lifers, the younger ones still hadn't had the hope beaten out of them, would work harder longer, and worked a lot cheaper. Now they want all the customers to look up and order their own parts online, further reducing the number of available brains to pick when you don't know if you have Type 1 or Type 2 or is it Delco or Leece-Neville, or if it doesn't matter because they both sub to Denso? And what ever happened to the NPR? "Like teardrops in the rain." as Rutger Hauer said in Bladerunner.
Sorry to vent on your thread Nige As a Deere dealer guy for 30 of my 40 years in this business, I can tell you that the damn Service Advisor program, in my opinion, has slowed us down. They constantly come out with revisions to the program to fix some glitch only to create another one which you don't discover until standing in front of a customer with egg on your face. Having grown through the same path with microfiches and paper books I consider myself fairly computer savvy. Knowing along the way the "change" that was coming I spent many hours of my own time educating myself on new technologies, whether it be on the machine or on laptop use. Deere puts way too much enfaces on the laptop (and JDLink) and what it can supposedly do rather than put the tech through quality training (and don't get me started on the "Capstone" training process, there is not enough room in the forum for that). You have a million parameters you can view and no explanation/training on what they mean or what is normal. I had to train myself to learn what many of them tell you. Now Deere wants you to perform recordings of the readings and send it to them for them to troubleshoot, Oh! Wait, the readings now freeze up when you hit record.....AARRG ....welcome to our latest glitch.
These are the reasons I hook a laptop up to any new machines that come across my path and take readings and watch diag screens so I can get an understanding of what is normal. Because I don't necessarily trust a tech adviser in a far off state. Last unit I had engine trouble with I tried to take a recording. When I got back to the shop the recording did not exist. However, I had taken a video of the screen with my phone which saved me. Even that only works half the time because you have to push record 3 times to get it to start and it makes decoy beeps and such. Got to make sure the timer is actually running to have any faith it is actually recording.
Not so sure where the craftsman bit comes in. A man who I admired greatly (RIP Fred) used to refer to it as "back-street mechanicking" .....
How true-Belt tensioner retro fit on DD15 and DD16. Had the first one yesterday didn't bolt up tried two of the new designed models neither fit. Called dealer told them there's a problem {Nope that's the right number I was told}. Later the head parts manager called and told me there was a service bulletin that only a small number of 15 and 16's are odd, only Gates supplies the tensioner and none in DC's and a nine week lead time. She told the parts people on the counter-quote{If Mike tells you it doesn't work that means it doesn't work}.
Must be nice to get one of the "SPECIAL" ones. Bet the customer/owner will be happy to hear of the 9 week lead time! Just hope they take it out on the place that sold them the truck and not you!
I prefer being the Back Alley Mekanic than a Parts Changer. When set pen to paper on costs as to buying new or fixing what have or not being able to buy parts and figuring out a corrective action, That sets apart Mechanic from Shop Tech. I was not ever a 'Shop Tech'.
We have a 2012 IHC Durastar with hydraulic brakes that was giving a brake pressure warning (also ABS and Traction Control) and an engine light (unrelated) so I took it in for an estimate. For the brakes they said there was corrosion on the terminals of the HPU and ECU and the fix was a new unit for around $7000.00 dollars plus labour to install. My mechanic took the connection apart and cleaned it up and voila no more warnings. I would hate to be at the mercy of a dealer for all maintenance and repairs. Just keep putting more new parts on. Rant over.
Believe it or not I was able to find one at O'Reilly's.
Now that's funny!
That's not all of it, it is a $115.00 bucks cheaper. Same one.
I’ve worked on quite a few 89s but never realised there was a drama under there. Noted for future reference. I do recall on the 793f that it would go through the Flexi joints at an alarming rate. Partially to poorly aligned exhaust tubes. They even tried a woven after market Flexi, that was a horrendous to try and fit
I find it highly interesting that o'Reillys that our industry would consider possibly a second rate parts store has things like that we pulled an alternator for a backhoe from them at half the cost of dealer and the dealer was an overnight o'Reilly was on the shelf
Hell all I did was type in the Gates number and several popped up, O'Reilly is here in town so gave it a shot. Summit has crept into that market also. But Napa really isn't much more than second rate these days. You can find Fel Pro gaskets at AutoZone no one else carries.
Only affects the 789D where the RH platform is welded to the chassis. On the earlier models the platform bolts on and it was never an issue. Lord help the user who gets one crumpled on the RH front corner and has to try to straighten it out. Speaking of alignment, you should see how far off the intake system bellows located half-way down each side of the engine are.......caused by badly aligned ducts ex-factory.
Our local Carqust is expanding lines and stores of materials that I used to consider dealer only types. Have excellent lines of Air System and medium duty truck juice brakes parts, can have good quality large truck air brake components in a day or two, they also have had obsolete FelPro gaskets I could get nowhere else except Summit and did not have to pay freight.
A few final touches like mudflaps, etc, and she's good to go.
Finally got these two finished. waiting for roof/front window rock guards & additional GET, none of which had been ordered with the machines - typical.
I assume the dirt on the tyres was a test drive ?
And the latest info is that Big Bertha rocks in on Sunday. Just what you need to put a total crimp in your weekend........ No, that was just what got on the tyres driving the truck about 200 yards to & from the welding shop where the body was installed. In case you weren't aware it rains a lot here. The place is a permanent mud puddle.
What’s big Bertha?? Pulled the boom off a 996b last week, 75t with no stick or boom cylinders in place.
My other half the 789 operator was eye ballin' this one. She thought she would look pretty good in it. Paint my name on a 994. We will be along directly.
I have loaded a 793 a couple times with a 365, about 17 or 18 minutes a copy Are the 345's for the road crew or the leach field crowd?
Kind of amazing how the windshield can not be ordered for the excavator. Was the dump truck box shipped in two pieces, and welded on sight? How many tons or yards is the tub on the dump truck? Thanks
Hitachi EX3600. The simple fact of the matter was that the people who approved the quotation from the dealer apparently had no idea what they were looking at. If they had piped up at the time the machines could've come with the roof/windshield rock guards and the bucket sidebar & corner protectors installed. Same comments apply to the autolube system. They didn't so it all had to be airfreighted in. "Urgent airfreight" is a 7-10 day process here. The bodies come like this - 3 pieces basically. A bit like iKEA - some assembly required. The nice part is that the pivots and hoist cylinder mounts are all in the "big half" so they arrive final line-bored.
Do I spy the next machine bucket in the background?
No. That’s the bucket that should’ve gone on the EX1200 a couple of months ago when we assembled it, but as usual Logistics ***ked up on-time delivery of the base GET (lip & adapters) to the company who were building the bucket. Result was a delay of 8 weeks in it arriving. Meantime we put a used bucket on it in order to hit the RTW target date. Now that the new bucket is here all of a sardine the Planning Dpt (a misnomer if I ever heard one) have suddenly announced that there are no bushes for it in the Warehouse. More delay, more expense (air freight). You couldn’t make this **** up if you tried.....
And of course Maintenance copped the flak for the fact that the RTW target was missed....... Pardon my cynicism. I ought to be used to this **** by now. Then again the EX3600 was supposed to arrive 9 days ago but got held up in Customs with “paperwork deficiencies”. Logistics again. Anyone see a pattern here.? If that had been the case I would have been off this weekend instead of being into my 27th straight day without a break. I think I’m entitled to be cranky.
Nige, I'm having precisely the same problems this past month, just on a smaller scale. And today I'm the a**hole that don't want help because a datacenter build in an old below ground level parking garage got flooded last night and I say I'm not able to resurrect electronics that are submerged in water.
I’m sure they think that we can all walk in water. I wish...
They can be as slow and inefficient as they want these days. All they have to do is say it's "because of the c*****v****".
Believe it or not but that word never came up. Simply a shrug of the shoulders and a roll of the eyes as much as to say “you oughta know how things work around here by now”. Cnuts....
Do they give you the can’t you just do this or that when your talking hundreds of thousands of dollars and months of work?
Recently I have been hitting back when people suggest this. I tell them, every time you use the word "just" to tell me how to do my work "just" add $1000. Or probably $100,000 in Nige's case.
What’s got me on the edge of my seat at the moment is the RTW date for the 3600 - 22nd of December. Complete with fire system, dispatch, Accugrade, Comms, etc, etc. if it had arrived on time it would’ve been no sweat. Because it didn’t I see night shifts on the horizon..... Fail to meet that date and I can see the wife being as pi$$ed as I am right now. I haven’t even booked a ticket home yet - too many variables.
At least you can't be in the position of cannibalizing some other machine to make a date.
No - More’s the pity. It wouldn’t be the first Xmas I’ve spent away from home and likely won’t be the last one either.
When I used to travel a lot for work my Monday drive to a couple places was 1070 miles. Get out of the house about 3:30 on Monday drive about 17 hours, so you could be on the job next morning. They would call me and ask me to stop a couple places and do a little job on my way. They had no idea, what traveling that far was like I guess.
Nige, are there any penalties involved for late RTW ? Or is it normal "less than 1st world" shrug and carry on ?
Never met a yellow iron man worth his lunchbucket whose default mode wasn't cranky, it's just the world you choose to live in. Scottie from Star Trek leaps to mind, he always said that when you did miracles, they come to expect miracles every day.... or summat like that. BTDT, lol. Oh Nige, I do envy you your adventures and those lovely big furry pets... damn I miss that stuff. Couldn't hack it now anyway not that anybody's calling me for projects. Cheers.
Other than maybe not getting invited back, probably not. I’m doing it as an external contractor on a day rate anyway so in that respect the longer it takes the more I get paid, but with Xmas looming that’s not the point - at least not for me anyway.
Money is not everything. I'm actually wondering about the "planners" of this exercise. It seems to be going way over budget because of bad planning and not bad execution on ground level.
I think it was Truck Shop who posted in another thread something along the lines of “If I stopped working I’d probably just stop”. I feel the same way, and as long as the phone keeps ringing I’ll keep dabbling as long as I feel competent to do it. While there’s someone out there who’ll pretend to pay me, I’ll pretend to work....
The explanation is quite simple. Estimated RTW dates had to be put into the application for funding to buy all this kit. At that time they were nothing more than best estimates based on information given by OEMs regarding current machine availability from the receipt of a firm purchase order. Obviously things change from initial enquiry to confirmed PO, but nobody in Planning went back and reworked RTW dates based on info received regarding ex-factory delivery dates once the OEMs had the POs in their hot sweaty hands. Therein lies the disconnect and it didn’t get fixed until words were said shortly after I arrived on site and pointed out the discrepancy. “Planning - they couldn’t plan their way out of a wet paper bag.” They already know what I think of them - explained mostly in words of one syllable and liberally sprinkled with 4-letter ones....
Oh so the proverbial "Can not organise a p*ss up in a brewery" ? My currrent project is the same, just got told on a Sunday not to plan having a Xmas lunch with the other half.
Indubitably. I chuckled somewhat when I was told yesterday that somebody in Planning had ordered some parts sea freight for an urgent breakdown repair. I’d love to be a fly on the wall when they get hauled into the office to explain that one......
Why do I get the idea the "planners" are bean counters ?
I wish they were, then it would be easy to hate them. However they all without exception have an engineering qualification. It’s a shame they don’t have some common sense to go with it.
This day and age a estimate after ten minutes has elapsed becomes the final end result and after a half an hour has elapsed no one can remember what the estimate was. People running businesses, high level managers that are actually low level managers start a project, give orders, change their minds every three minutes working their way into the basement after starting on the 40th floor. And when asked who made that decision it's {I don't recall or I wasn't privy to that information}. In the end it's all the janitors fault.
So we all agree that common sense is "unobtanium" today
My old man was on the tools for 41 years and 1 day. Retired on sept the 2nd this year. Lasted less than 4 weeks before going casual for a local mob. Back doing 5 days a week now. No hobbies, doesn’t take to the drink, and my mother would have him herding cats at a crossroads if she has her way. I don’t think he will properly stop working until he doesn’t have a choice
If the management people where I worked were anywhere the same as the ones we had for the first 20 years I'm not sure I would have retired at 65. Just got to be that they no longer felt the need to train people and jobs you had done in house for 20 years all of a sudden they thought they needed to farm them out to anyone who could put numbers on a letterhead and call themselves a repair shop. And it's not just my work that went like that! The plant welders, for example, built a bin for a special product years back but when time came for some repairs to be made to the structure all of a sudden they were not "qualified" to do the repairs! Also they were not allowed to work on Saturdays. But the small one man and his kid welding shop around the corner was given the job and our men had to explain to him how to do the repairs!
I can relate. When I started with the organization, we were a division of a major oil company. Management knew we were in every lawyer's gun sight for a payday, so they didn't sweat the risk. I could hire a local outfit to pressure wash the gum off the sidewalk. After the division was sold off, management wanted every contractor on site to have a 5 million liability insurance policy as well as worker's comp. (That was pushing two decades ago, limits are likely higher today) New management was risk adverse for IMHO, several reasons. 1.. new managers climbing the ladder don't want to be associated with negative events. But, they don't know or care their action or inaction costs the organization beyond their silo or budget. 2..New managers don't know the business, so everything is risky. But, they don't know or care their action or inaction costs the organization beyond their silo or budget. 3.. New managers want to make a splash of "saving" money or cost reductions. But, they don't know or care their action /inaction costs the organization beyond their silo or budget. See a pattern ? Your plant welders doing the job create a risk or liability. Subbing the job out passes the risk outside their responsibility. But, they don't know or care their action costs the organization beyond their silo or budget.
I want parts and sales to be my pallbearers so they can let me down one last time.
Oh! I know that very well but still hurt when a job you had been doing for a few decades all of a sudden someone comes along and tells you you are not qualified to do it!
Are you sure I’m not your dad.? The description sounds awfully like someone I see in the mirror every day...
Hahaha. probably very similar except Slidey senior has peaked at sending photos of the gear he is working on to me over WhatsApp, a forum would be double Dutch to him!
Well, then you need to pass those photos on to us! Get them on here.
About time for a bit of an update....... First shipment of parts (10 trucks) for Big Bertha rocked in on Sunday, but not until almost noon. it was late afternoon by the time everything was on the ground.
Monday was cleaning parts and wrapping the tracks on the RH track frame, then mating the carbody up to it.
Tuesday install the LH track frame to the carbody, then we had to take a break and unload 6 more turcks bringing in the rest of the parts. Amongst them was the revolving frame, hydraulic cooler module, electrical/electronic module, plus all the catwalks, cab, handrails, stairways, etc.
Then last thing in the afternoon we managed to get the LH track under the track frame, wrapped it and joined it up. Special Tool #1A for raising the track enough to get the carbody under it, and also for aligning the holes in the track shoes to get the pins in. (Toyota Hilux wheel jack in case anyone doesn't recognize it)
Working in an area the size of a handkerchief makes planning where everything is placed even more important if you don't want to be constantly rehandling pieces. Today's job was to get the lower works off the cribbing and onto the deck, then preparing the surfaces of the swing bearing and all the threaded holes for mounting the revolving frame on the swing bearing (60 x M56 threaded holes0 plus ditto for mounting the LH & RH modules to the revolving frame. Far easier to do on the ground than up in the air. Propel transmission & motor guards also went on. Much easier to do when you don't have a revolving frame over the top of them.
I take it threads full of paint and whatever!! Tap to clean them out.
How are the track pins installed? Big press or slip fit with keepers or something else?
They're mostly coated with a type of waxy protective grease. Where the protective coating was missed then the threads were generally slightly rusty. I was somewhat surprised when brand-new taps were actually generating hairs of metal shavings as well. This shovel left Hitachi's dock in Japan in early September IIRC, and it's been on the high seas or docksides (it was trans-shipped twice) ever since. If you get everything lined up right with Special Tool # 1A and a couple of 5-ton chain blocks the pins can be installed with nothing more than the palm of your hand. The pins are kept in place by a bolt with what looks like an oversized head on it through the lip on the end of the track shoe and secured with a nyloc nut. Each track link joint has two pins each about 15" long and 4" diameter, one installed from each side. The undercarriage on these things is a tad agricultural to say the least.
In my 44 work years I never met more than 2 engineers or architects that understood planning and delivery schedules. Most think they can be four months late in reviewing a timely submitted submittal which has been in the project schedule since the beginning, even after being reminded and posted in the construction meeting minutes of it in every week, and gasp in horror when they realize the manufacturer was serious when they said a year earlier that it took 3 months to procure the parts and build the damn component. "What do you mean you can't get it in two weeks. Can't you push everybody harder. We can't delay the completion."
I was thinking really big excavator until I saw those flat pads. It's got to be a front shovel or a crane. You don't have sprockets on that machine. You have cog wheels
You poor souls have to wear masks outside???
Until we see the bucket or stick.... Big Bertha is a backhoe or shovel... This is like waiting 9 months to chose baby clothes At least we know the color .. (Hitachi orange ) Right Nige ?
I don’t have any issue with it at all. Transmission of the virus is almost nonexistent here. EDIT: I just asked about the numbers. Out of almost 2000 employees in the company there are currently just 3 people off work having tested positive for the virus. Mask-wearing in public is mandatory throught the whole country BTW, just like it is in most of Latin America and the numbers seem to be much less unnerving than those coming out of the country to the north.
It's the same undercarriage for either excavator or shovel configuration on a 3600. This particular one is going to be set up as a shovel. The boom is visible in the 3rd photo of post #327 above. Sorry I thought I'd mentioned earlier it was a big Hitachi that was coming. I thought I'd posted this photo before but maybe not. The shovel boom and arm shipped separately and arrived a few weeks ago.
Another hazard of ocean feeight. Look what the dockworkers somewhere managed to do to the boom piping. To give it perspective the tubing on both sides of the boom should be a mirror image of one another. Two of the support blocks (welded to the boom) on the left side are missing completely, the thrid is hanging on by a thread. Hydraulic piping bent like pretzels. Shipper's insurance company picks up the tab.
Are the machines assembled at the factory then disassembled?
In the case of Cat definitely not. Can't speak for Htiachi but I don't think so, and it really wouldn't be logical with a machine of that size. The first time it all works as a machine is when we turn the key on site at the end of an assembly. That's why it's kinda nerve-wracking the first time she fires up......
Impact on RTW ?
Nil - I hope. Most of the replacement parts are already here. The hard part was getting drawings of the two brackets that were missing from Hitachi. Eventually I gave up and resorted to making cardboard templates of the ones on the opposite side of the boom as a guide. Then used the thrid one as a reference for thickness (50mm) and made the new ones to the pattern. The new clamps were used to locate the centres of the tapped holes in the top of them. Right now we're waiting for a couple of hydraulic tubes that were back-ordered and should arrive in the next day or so. The boom won't be installed for at least a week from now.
Here's better detail of the track pin retaining system.
Thanks. I was having trouble trying to figure that part out.
The rails appear as a One Piece Rail and Shoe, not worried of any high speed rolls or hard turns with those!! Very obvious as to being part of the Low Ballast for the machine.
Well there will be 450 tons sitting on top of them ...........
They will wear slots in the pads over time. The cogs wheels will have the wear marks of the lugs on the cog wheels as well. I've seen that system on big cranes also and never thought about the track chains probably wouldn't take the weight anyway.
To minimze wear on undercarraige components the mine has a set of these ....... The video is of a Hitachi EX2500 but the principle is the same.
Now that is slick.
Only $1m a copy to you sir .......... however if the mine has 4 shovels and they are moved significant distances, say once a week for each shovel, the savings in increased production, fuel, undercarriage wear soon add up. An undercarriage overhaul for an 3600 would probably go close to $1m in parts I would imagine.
Saving money in the long run is advantageous.
Saving work for the maintenance team is even more advantageous IMHO.....
Are those power lines running over your assembly site?
There are power lines along two sides just outside the berm. The line all the way along the South side is de-energized, and we are no closer than 5 metres to the line on the North side where the offices, storage containers, etc, are located. Also the line on the North side only goes as far as the office container. See some o fthe photos on the previous page. It's also a reason that we exclusively use nylon slings for lifting. The shovel could have been assembled a frew metres more to the West, but then I'd have had no space to start assembling three 789's that the first of which is due to rock up on Monday 7th and the other two within just over a week after that. Space will be at a premium.
For one of their large mining shovel series Cat made a rip off of Bob the Builder to show how to put it together lol I did appreciate the video for showing that a forklift was a Caterpillar approved hammer for installing pins.
With that Sleipner, do you use an old truck with something in the bed, use a cable, or does just the friction of the bucket on the bed floor hold it?
Bucket full of dirt spread around the front end of the body and everything else relies on gravity. Some of the steeper ramps you'll likely see an 854 (D11 on rubber basically) up the back end of the shovel pushing. Some better views in this video.
Shovel operator can aid in corner negotiating too, that is also handy.. Kind of wish had these 35 years ago.
I see this guy opened a can of never seize.
Yep, ONE Drop, the size of a Gnats Ass and it spreads faster than forest fire!!! Can cover the ENTIRE earth with just One brush full!!!
Always called it "silver death" because it'll still be on your hands when you die. Ed
It doesn't stay on your hands/arms as long as the remnants of HFO (Heavy Fuel Oil). That always left a deposit that looked somewhat like a cheap salon spray tan, so much so that anyone wearing it was known to have a "(insert name of your current location) suntan" ..........
We call that Bunker oil here. Used in maritime for a time, then in heavy boilers, finally used to thin slabs of solid asphalt for paving roads!!
Never seize seems to jump from one part to another so that you can enjoy it more. Did some work over the years and found Carbon Black not much fun either. Starts as white powder, turns brown just before it turns black and is about permanent bonded to your skin. Goes through your clothes, like a fart in reverse. You throw away all your clothes and I have seen guys throw away tools that were covered with Carbon Black.
Here's a view of the drive tumbler showing how it engages the track pads. You can also see how the centre end of the track shoe pin bore is a reduced diameter to stop the pins walking inwards while the bolt on the outside stops them walking outwards.
Without actual rails the system has a better chance to clear itself of packable debris, another plus.
The travel motor guards are "robust" to put it mildly. Tey have to be offered up, tack weld five blocks for each one in place, then take the guards down again and fully weld the blocks. Once that's done they are finally installed. Easier to do this before the upper frame is installed.
While the welding of the travel motor guard bases was going on it was a good time to start assembling the platforms, walkway, & handrails for the LH & RH modules. And before anyone says anything...... yes I know those handrails are bent. Result of some d1ckhead in the port trying to lift a pallet using a crane instead of a forklift. It would've been relatively fine had they slung it from the pallet, but they fixed the slings to the handrails and when the strapping broke it dropped the whole shooting match about 10ft to the ground. New ones are all available in Miami and are on the way already by air-freight. Should be on site by the middle of the week, fingers crossed.
Dock Hands were a bunch of Rubes if ask me, who signed off their longshoreman tickets as that is just beyond stupid as to damage incurred.
And now for what the Scots call "The Big Yin". All of a sardine it's starting to look like a digger. Damn thing fought us all the way though. Sometimes the four swing pinions just slide into the ring gear, sometimes they don't. We spent 2 hours fighting it until the pinions finally meshed and it slid into place. Then there is a small matter of having to swing it 180 degrees and back again, because only about 6 bolts front and rear will actually install, there isn't enough clearance to get them in above the carbody. So after tightening the first dozen bolts we used a forklift truck to slowly swing the upper frame in order to get all the others in, then swung it back again. Today is Hytorc day to fully tighten all 60 bolts to 7,250 ft.lbs.
This photo was taken at the docks. The whole shooting match came half-way round the world, was trans-shipped twice during that time, and arrived without so much as a scratch. Then this happened........
Only new until the first ding or scratch. Generally by the End Owner!
Nice day weather-wise today so we managed to get the LH & RH modules up with no major problems. Looking even more like a digger even though the back end still looks a bit bare. Engine module next.
Is that machine running two separate engines and sets of pumps? I did an appraisal on a big Hitachi years back that was configured that way.
No John, a single Cummins QSK60 rated at 1950 BHP. I'll post some photos of the engine compartment tomorrow.
Views of the engine compartment & the implement pump room.
Appears as they left notable room for working on this.
It gets even better. Apart from regular maintenance the best thing to do is to have a complete "power pack" (engine, radiator, hydraulic oil coolers, pump drive, pumps, etc) all assembled in the module which is the grey & orange box you see here, then swap the whole thing out as one unit. With a bit of planning it can be done in just over a day. It's not that heavy, comes in a shade under 30 tonnes.
I know a guy here in town that travels the globe working for Lampson setting up cranes. I took these photos about two years ago at Lampson's main yard in Pasco, Wa. Really the photos don't grab the size of this unit, A security guard took the photo of me standing next to it. And those clevises are way bigger than the photo can depict.
Is that 71,xxx number on the bottom of the concrete blocks the weight?
If you click on the picture it zooms in, you can pan around and see a "WT" in front of the digits... attsa lotta counterweight! The "little guys" up top are only around 44,000 each!
Based on the Duals path above the clevises they appear to be close to 4' in length
24 x 44,000 40x 72,000 ____________ 3,9360,000 pounds ? Looks like the LTL-3000. Operator's cab seems comfy enough... (click on blue box with 3 circles to toggle pic) https://www.lampsoncrane.com/equipment/lampson-transi-lift/ltl-3000 It's owned by Hitachi ... waiting on delivery.
Hitachi bought and paid for it but the job fell through that it was to be used on.
In video, Woman in purple is Kate Lampson. She talks about the LTL-3000. she is part of the third generation of the family owned and operated Lampson Cranes.
I realize that but I also know someone who works there and has been there for years.
TS posted about the Hitachi crane some years ago and it looks like it is still sitting there. I wonder who is paying rent on the considerable space it occupies? Surely someone will want it somewhere someday, cranes always seem to be getting bigger. Around here they built the foundations of a bridge and just lifted the deck and set it, it had been built elsewhere. This crane is obviously bigger than that though.
That crane has been setting in the yard now for six years or very close to that. They had to install a red beacon for low flying air craft.
Just Awesome....so cool!
So who pays the rent, if you know that information? I would think Hitachi would scrap it if it had sat that long. Maybe Lampson, being an old school company, can see that it will have value somewhere, someday and is willing to let it sit in exchange for a big payoff later.
According to the video, Lampson maintains the crane and Hitachi observes quarterly & annual inspections. 0.35 sec of video, specs at 2.55. I infer Hitachi owns it and pays for maintenance since they send their people to observe. Hitachi bought this crane to build nuke plants. Since Japan suffered Fukushima, nukes have been on hold in Japan. Likewise this crane. Trivia ... notice pendant on her necklace. GE / Hitachi nuclear joint venture >> https://nuclear.gepower.com/ TS... I'm not disputing your comments... just adding detail. The internet knows all.
Big cranes like that see a lot of sitting time between jobs. There will be a time when it is needed and the cost of renting it will be astronomical. I worked a project some years ago involving some Demag cranes. The largest were 1,000 ton units that came here to work on scrubbers for large coal plants. A change of US presidents and dropping the requirements of having scrubbers on the plants bankrupted or almost bankrupted some crane hire companies. The cranes were all sold to other companies after about a year of sitting and waiting to clear all the legal paper work. They were sitting all over the world before the scrubber thing came up, brought here on speculation that it would go and when the bottom dropped out, they dispersed again to all over the world.
Well if you look at the crane in the photo-stop and think about it for minute or two. That crane was built with the idea of dismantling and building two smaller cranes using the two carriages. If any of you would have had the chance to walk around it and inspect it close up you would see what I'm talking about. They move stuff around like a chess game. So Nige's thread isn't hi-jacked-----------------This thread is also in the Crane forum under A Few Big Items-so please reply there. Sorry Nige.
No apology necessary Mkie. It wouldn't be a multi-page HEF thread if there wasn't a hijack or two somewhere along the line.......... I'll have to do some photo updates. The orange digger is moving right along and all going well we should have two more 45-ton excavators, another truck & a body with us within the next couple of days.
No Dawdling time there!!
A pan view of the inside of the engine compartment
Engine module & instake/exhaust modules up on the shovel.......
Then yesterday these rocked up ........
This was last night when we got done. Moved the shovel boom & arm into position as well.
God that looks like fun!
What a difference a day makes. It pi$$ed it down overnight and the today assembly area resembles a bog. Even so the progress on the truck is excellent and the counterweight went up on the shovel as well. Plus the body on the lowboy in the photo above was offloaded in a corner out of the way. It seems that the labour force has all of a sudden realized that the holidays are just around the corner.
It would be a lot more fun if it wasn't ***lking raining.........!!
Nige, I've lived my entire life in Oregon! I wouldn't know how to work if I wasn't soaking wet, LMAO!
Welders wasted no time zippering the bed together!!
The body in the photo above was the previous one to arrive. However the main parts of the body that they offloaded yesterday are all pretty much lined up and ought to be ready to start welding on night shift tonight. That one wil go on the chassis that arrived yesterday. The one that is already completed will go on the first of two chassis that are arriving the middle of next week. If the welders put their mind to it they can finish assemble a body in 5 days
Big main control valves. Two of the four swing transmissions are underneath that rat's nest of piping. The other two seem accessible now but won't be once the boom is installed.
HOLY Crap what a Maze!
There is an abandoned carbon black plant near a friend's house. It has been abandoned for over 40 years. Satellite photos still show a big black smudge around the plant.
So it appears it’s a Cat dominated mine site why the Hitachi EX3600 and not a Cat 6040 or whichever model is the closest equivalent?
Nige: You once posted your prescription for long term water proof electrical connections. As I remember it used some Aussie stuff not available in the US. Looking at the maze of soon to be inaccessible pipe & wires ... How are you handling the factory connections on the Hitachi ?
I had a scale issue with this picture, until I saw the guy standing in the back past the piping. Its all a little bigger than it looked at first.
Me too, glad I am not in that business. Working on that thing should cause a lot of howling, screaming, weeping, etc
Or at least cussing, but then again the guys there are paid by the hour
The operation was established long before the current Cat line of mining shovels came into being. Let’s face it the 5230 wasn’t exactly a runaway success. The first two EX3600s arrived 10 years ago so it made sense to stick with them. They’re actually a pretty good machine in my experience. The operation would have also gone Hitachi for the 45-ton machines as well but the GM vetoed it on the basis of a bad experience in his previous assignment. Having looked at the 345GC up close I think that was a mistake. It’s more like a construction machine and not really the machine that a 24/7 operation needs. For example you can’t even get factory-fitted autolube on it. To me it looks like a lightweight POS. 3 tons lighter than the model it replaced and with a C9.3 instead of a C13. ***..?
It’s being done with exactly the same stuff (Senson) as we assemble it.
For scale the two pins in the lower left corner are 12” diameter.
Thanks for the pictures and explaining them, Nige. Seems like you have a massive amount to assemble before the holidays! I lived in Oregon for a while, working in the rain outside about everyday, made for long winters.
Still four more machines to arrive, but two of them are 45-ton excavators so they don't take much work. The excavators are already sitting in the port, the ship that is bringing the last two mining trucks arrives in port and offloads today. The only plus here is that at least when it rains, even in December, it's not cold. Currently 21C (70F) @ 8am.
Where is the Port Nige? Distance for the haul?
100% correct. 345 GC is just that “general construction”. What should have been sold is the 349 next Gen which is a production machine not a “GC” machine - C13, 425 hp and 49,000 kg.
Because it is cheaper by 50% ?
Completely agree, but when Ops guys who have absolutely no idea what they are looking at are responsible for the decision-taking you end up with **** ........... and Maintenance have to look after it. What makes it even more unbelievable is that the operation already has two 349Ds that were purchased about 6 years ago. Not sure about the Next Gen though. I'd have been happy if they got a TIER 3 export model (still available for LRC sales) that would've been perfect for here with far less of the emissions fruit on it. As far as I know the price difference would not have been a factor. Whatever the price was for whatever model was chosen would've been put into the application for funding to buy the new machines. As far as I'm concerned the justification would have been simply "We already have two of these machines and know that they suit our needs. It makes sense to buy four more especially as we already have components available (engines, pumps, cylinders, undercarriage, etc) for them." The two that are on site already have close to 40,000 hours on them.
There are three ports that stuff comes into. it depends on which shipping line brings the goods. None of them are that far away, the furthest is less than 100 miles and apart from the last 20 miles or so everything else is minimum 4-lane highway.
And now what might be the last straw ............ now we're being told that the last two excavators that arrived 4 days ago have "damage". FFS how long does it take to see that something has a ding (or dings) on it when it comes off the boat..?
Always a UPHILL Battle in shipping!!
More like the blind leading the blind. Grrrrrrrrrr......
Hitachi has always been the brand in the large mining hydraulic excavators and shovels. All they do is work day in and day out. I've assembled and worked on several PC1000 Komatsu shovels and excavators. Big iron means lots of ladders to climb, plenty of heavy lifting, pushing and pulling. Working on down machines until they are running and being physically worn out at the end of each shift and crawling at the end of each week. I'd a whole lot rather work on a mini excavator now days than one of those monsters. They are neat to look at but assembling and fixing them requires plenty of young men.
Comparisons to the Energizer bunny have been made before.........
The booms don't break, the turn table base doesn't snap off the carbody and the engines are built by an engine company instead of a heavy equipment company only concerned that parts and knowledge only come from them with their price tag attached.
What do they use the 349s for
As I recall the 345 became 349.
Cleanup, plus any other one-off jobs like digging ditches.
I have had the pleasure of both... I think that the 349 will bury a 345. However I never loaded trucks side by side.
I did like the 3600 for the most part. They do use hard piping a lot which gave us some grief as once the stauff clamps wear they start to crack the pipes. The swing boxes are a PITA to fill
What, even filling them through the service centre.? We switched our 3600s from EP oil to TO-4 in the swing drives, pump drive, & final drives.
Maybe it’s an aus spec but the ones I worked on had these remote mounted sight glasses. By the time the 460 oil got to the glass it had overflowed out the breather haha
I'd bin the 460 oil and use SAE60 FDAO instead. Works much better and pumps like a dream compared to factory-spec EP oils. The improvement in oil analysis results by switching from EP to powertrain oil was startling. As a further comment the ambient temperatures here are close to what you would see in the Pilbara. Maybe not quite as high but certainly in the ball park.
Liebherr ?
Not unless you have a Frenchman bolted to the counterwieght on each one to keep it tuned up every time the operator stops for a **** ..........
Lol, I take it you had some bad experience with them Nige
You could say that. I saw two 996s burn to the ground on the same mine. And that was despite Liebherr having a full maintenance contract to look after them............
Yes, that would do it
Maybe that’s the only way to maintain them. Burn them to the ground and start new
I had thought about that, in peak summer ambient temp would be mid 40s for a few months. So far this year we have got away lightly as it happens. I think it may have something to do with services happening in pit. The service trucks have limited compartments so they “hedge their bets” a bit to try and cater for all the machines on site
We have 5 996b and 6 9400 here that I work on. The 9400 aren’t too bad for the most part. The 996, they can test you! One thing I will say about Liebherr, the pins always come out and go in easy which is a blessing the way we go through cylinders!
Maybe that's an issue with oil as well.? I had a mate of mine in Tanzania going through all sorts of cylinders on Cat 992G/K wheel loaders like there was no tomorrow. Turned out it was the poor quality hydraulic oil they were buying. It was an Indian oil brand - think the geography of Africa's East Coast. A straight shot across the Indian Ocean to "local" oil suppliers. Came across the same issue with the "high performance" grease they were using. I wouldn't have greased my ute with it........
Full of unfiltered grit you say?
I don't recall contamination being a major issue. The oil just wasn't very good performance-wise.
I need to get round to posting some more photos. Meantime I found this online. Quite interesting.
No Money quoted but has to be less expense than buying new.
Those programs work OK when they are in a continuous program. They don't work when you have a dealer that does one or two every other year. The rule of thumb I was taught many years ago was that the cost of the rebuild could be no more than 65% of new and the life cycle had to get to around 70% of a new machine in order to work. That becomes problematic when using a factory supplied guide to reusable parts. The other issue is that mother Cat would rather sell new machines than support any dealer rebuilds. Today dealerships are run by accountants who are incredibly risk averse. They don't like to carry a warranty for any amount of time on huge components.
Empire is pretty sharp. Had the pleasure of working with their residents assigned to our crew. Good guys.
"Less than half the cost of new."
What kind of warranty?
Identical to a new machine. After a certified Rebuild like that each truck is assigned a new Serial Number from the factory to reflect its "new" status. e.g. for a 793D an original truck Serial Number would be FDB00xxx, for a Certified Rebuild the S/N would be FDB75xxx.
Empire spent 10 million just building that componrlet shop we dug footings on it every day has a crane the footings are enormous As an empire customer my whole life when I was growing up we could not afford to run anything but cat they were 110 percent behind there product these days not quite as much it's not anything like it was They spent so much on catering to mining customers that when the mines are busy developing buissness with us little guys is a waste of time but when the mines are closed your beating away salesman with a stick But they were a major asset in cats development of how dealer service standards are and the 2nd life programs mainly because cat has there mine facility south of tucson and they used to have a proving grounds out on the westside of Phoenix so empire was here developing with cat it didn't hurt that the founder was one of the best customer service guys around he was really a neat guy
I would have to ask if those trucks are part of the Cat certified program? My experience with Cat dealers is that they can’t do a certified rebuild for less than half new. All the requirements put machine costs over 80% of new.
I know they did Certifed Rebuilds because quite a few of them ended up in S America in the dealership I worked for. No idea on pricing for trucks but on the big loaders in round numbers a Certified Rebuild would go about 60% of new price. I probably still have the New vs CCR numbers from years back. I think between the two product lines the cost difference could be simply one of scale. Far more trucks get CCR'd than loaders.
If you could do CCR’s for 60% dealers would be doing them left right and center. Only way to get it to 60% or less nowadays is mass scale and set up for specific models like what Empire is doing. Rule of thumb for Cat Certified Rebuild eligible models is 80% plus for a CCR and 60% for a CPT. Also to be noted you can do unlimited CPT, CMCR, CCH but only 1 CCR on a machine in its lifetime (not sure if mining has an exemption on that rule)
Nige, thank you for all the great pictures and the narrative. So many things to address, hijack alert The transport carriage, that was brilliant. The sliding trucks and things, I was always aware of the costs of rubber so I was careful, but the 6 wheel articulating trucks are easy to get into a situation. One day I met a fellow operator in the JD400 on a reverse camber corner with a skiff of snow on it, and I knew he was losing it. I got over and stopped and watched him slide by out of control with big eyes and a worried expression. He got out of the 400 after lunch and it was given over to me for the next few months. The only time I intentionally got squirrely on a rubber tired machine was a 980. We were capping a landfill with clay. It poured that morning and the haul trucks could not get in from the highway and the offroad trucks could not climb up on the dome that is a landfill. The wet clay made for one good doughnut, then park it and go home. The Liebherrs and the drive motors, brought me back to a dam job in 1992 with one of those with the drive motors just hanging out there to get knocked off. It happened. Also had a 245 long stick that broke a boom at the lift cylinders and dumped the whole works in the back of a terex. /hijack. PS hablo espanol
Remember this comment.? Here's the pic to go with it. Well the factory-installed hardware on the cooler marked in blue came loose. To get to it required first the removal of the afterooler that is directly above it, the A/C condenser, and the cooler to the right of it before the boys could even get at the hardware they needed to get at. Basically when installing that line of 5 coolers in the bottom row (with the cooling pack installed on the machine) you have to start from the centre one and work outwards. Lots of wailing & gnashing of teeth .........
Nige, are you going to get the holidays off and be back home? Looks like they keep bringing you more things to assemble, and then I suppose that they want everything to operate correctly, which could take a while when assembling equipment of that size, to get the bugs out!
The fleet hasn't changed in size - 14 machines total. What has changed is the arrival date on site of the last few machines compared to the ETA that was originally given to us by Logistics. All of which is down to delays with shipping companies that has put back arrival by anything from 7-10 days in the cases of the last 3 trucks, to 2 weeks for the big shovel, and 4 weeks for the last two 345s. The original plan was to have everything up & running by well before the end of the year. We can still make the 31st on all bar the last truck. Currently we have 5 machines on the go, 2 trucks, the shovel, & two 345s. The last truck is waiting on manpower that we don't have right now. I'm going to be here over Christmas then I'll bail close to the New Year which wasn't in the original plan but I'm not going to leave the customer in the lurch with the job half done. At that time it should be down to just that last truck and the boys can finish that on their own. I have nothing to do with them once they start loading/hauling dirt. That is the responsibility of the respective dealers and the on-site Maintenance Department.
Boom up day on the shovel. Not the easiest thing in the world to line up both foot pins up when the ground the shovel sits on was sloping to one side. It was a toss-up when we prepared the area. Put a slope on it to drain rainwater away and accept that we'd have to get inventive with slinging components to get them lined up, or work in a swamp that the water wouldn't drain from. We chose the former. With only 3 lifting points on the boom we ended up with one crane hooked to the LH front point and the rear one, and the second crane to the RH front so that we could tilt the assembly to line up the pins. Just as we were doing final alignment before starting to push the pins in it started raining just to add insult to injury.........
Appears to have gone smooth as glass.
Big Projects out in God's garage! You are a warrior Nige!
Boom on & cribbed ready to install the hydraulic hoses & pin the boom cylinders at the bottom end.
Oh it wasn't I assure you......!! I was down in the "hoile" between the cab riser and the LH pin mounting lining up that pin while my mate was doing the same from the shelter of the inside of the hydraulic cooler module on the RH side. He had a roof over his head, I had rain dripping off the catwalk above down the back of my neck. It was lashing it down but with the boom suspended up in the air what do you do.? Not funny..........
And the boys across the way busting butt on the Truck.
Might I ask how are those boom pins are retained ? Also it appears there are bushings in the bosses where it mounts or is it the camera angle ?
Ooh look. A spaceship. 30 mins later. Rear tyres on & not a spaceship. Don't need jacks when you have a crane. four tyres on & torqued in 90 minutes. Between the two photos it's easy to see just how quickly the weather turns here. The rain that came in the 2nd photo can be seen as clouds above the cab of the furthest crane in the 1st photo.
The in-residence 789 operator thinks these are pretty cool images!
The pin has a lip on the inside end so it can't go right through. Cover plates like the one seen below both inside & out. Pins can somewhat float sideways and are not restrained at all from rotating, that's why there are bushes in the machine frame bosses as you spotted.
Thanks! Love to work on some big stuff one day.
That's the same truck you see getting tyres on it in post #473 above.
Next truck chassis being offloaded between the shovel and the one seen above getting tyres installed. Nice Scania R500 V8-powered 8x4 tractor unit. The driver remembered me from 10+ years ago when he was working for the same haulage company delivering components for the first mining fleet that was built here. With I-shift and the capability to turn on a sixpence with the steerable Broshuis trailer he reckons it's like driving a Lexus compared to the Mack he had before.
First engine start at the same time as the next chassis was being offloaded alongside it.
Getting the shovel arm on. A 2nd sky hook is handy to handle the 200kg pins. Another grey sky but this time it didn't rain except for a few drops for which we were truly thankful. Once lined up the pins are pushed into place using the forks on an IT. They are the same design as the boom foot pins, fully-floating with a lip on one end and bolted cover plates inside & out.
What size are the hydraulic hoses that supply those boom cylinders? What size are the boom cylinders? I understand massive, but I'm looking at the volume of the barrel and thinking about what kind of flow is required to cycle them in a reasonable time to be productive.
The head ends of each of the large cylinders are supplied via two hydraulic hoses, each of 2" diameter. The rod ends are supplied by a single hose of 3" diameter. The machine has a total of 8 main implement pumps arranged as four tandem pumps. Each main pump is rated at 130 gallons/min @ 4250psi. So 1040 gallons/min theoretical maximum flow. The pilot pump and the fan pump are a tandem unit set in the middle as you look from the end in this pan view. The engine is in a separate compartment on the back side of that firewall. All ten pumps won't fit into a single photo.
Those look just like the Kawasaki pump I am resealing on a 160 Link belt right now
Manoeuvring the last chassis into position over the rear axle. We prefer to do it this way instead of cribbing the chassis way high then "sliding" the rear axle under it and lifting it into position between the A-frame and the rear suspensions. Cribbing the chassis just high enough so as to be able to install the front suspensions & ladders also has the advantage of putting large parts of the assembly within reach of a set of steps, so no requirement for harnesses or working-at-heights equipment for the most part.
If memory serves me right they are indeed Kawasaki pumps.
Mounting the head end of the arm cylinder is a pain. This tool might look a bit clunky but it gets the job done. Once the head end is pinned and the hoses have been installed the rod end is dead easy.
Form follows function. The field-built tools are the best, as you won't hesitate to take a torch to it and make it better.
Agree completely. In fact what I plan to do in order to make the tool more user-friendly is to build another rectangular frame of an identical size to function as a spreader bar assembly. That would solve the current problem where even using slings a million miles long they still rub on boom cylinders and assorted fruit and make it difficult to get the fine crane movement needed to line up the head end pin. With a spreader above the boom the slings to the tool would be vertical and thus kept away from any interference with other machine components. I'd also line the two saddles with rubber to avoid having steel-on-steel when the cylinder is strapped to them.
When we saw the S/N of the last truck we wondered whether or not it should have arrived with some sort of gifts from the factory.? Seems like not long ago the number on the plate was SPD00251, but it was 7-1/2 years ago. An average of 100 trucks a year. Not bad. It made me think of Belaz and their 75710 450-tonner that has been the subject of a long-running thread here on HEF. Agreed the 789 has only half the carrying capacity of the Belaz but while they've built 4 units since 2013 Uncle Cat has shipped six hundred or so of only one model. It just shows what smaller manufacturers are up against trying to break into the market.
I get 2500 horsepower of hydraulic power. What is the engine rating?
Nige You didn't get the memo? The case of champagne was held up at Customs.
About 2000. I would guess that the flow rates are most likely theoretical based on that.
So if one of those pumps shells out can it send metal into the others or would it be caught in a filter I assume? I have an old KW truck that the ser # is 110,000. Always got a strange look from the parts guys. But easy to remember. LOL
Fun serial number on my plane: The Collins Horizontal Situation Indicator (HSI) that was in it was common to the 727 and 707 aircraft. I had the indicator out of the panel and noted it was #0007 That was some fancy hardware for a light piston twin!
If I were hacking on that jig, I'd make the spreader so it sat secure on top with some metal tabs for storage, and knock some fork pockets into the side of it with 3x6 tubing.
My mack serial number 2201.
I thought you were in charge?
I hope the rain is not miserably cold there like it normally is here. But I bet it is just as wet.
Nige Will you be able to get back to home with countries starting to ban flights to the UK ?
Hoping your back home family remains healthy Nige Got to be tough being away for extended periods during crap like Covid
Filters would blow out in the feed side, the fine filters are in the return. The HP side has a 200-micron steel trash screen behind each pump. Built, as we say, to catch tree branches, children, & small dogs. Also each pump has a metal chip detector that alarms when contaminated.
I work on the principle I'll never ask someone to do something I'm not prepared to do myself. Apart from that I trust my eyes more than I trust most other people's when it comes to lining up 12" pins.
I did question the lack of fork pockets already. Good idea on the spreader fixing. I like that. I was thinking of using the lower lifting eyes on the spreader to the lifting eyes on the lower frame and pin them together for storage. Some calculations on sling lengths (fronts have to be +/- 2ft longer than the rears) to get the angle of dangle of the lower frame correct might also not go amiss.
Temperature was in the 70's. But any time you are squinting to try to line something up and rain is running down the back of your neck is never comfortable.
Wasn't planning to anyway. I have a short trip to Colombia via Panama when I do finally bail out of here. Including the layover in Panama the total journey is only about 5 hours. Miserable UK winters are not my idea of fun, Covid or not. We are lucky where we live. Being an island and self-governing the drawbridge was pulled up very early in the piece. it's easy to control arrivals when you only have one airport and one ferry port. People are free to leave but anyone arriving has to quarantine for 14 days. As a result of that we have no social distancing requirements, no mask-wearing, pubs, restaurants, cinemas, gyms, etc are all open. Basically life goes on as normal apart from the restrictions when arriving. The only cases of Covid since May 20 have been in people who developed symptoms during self-isolation having recently arrived on the island from outside. So nothing (so far fingers crossed) has got out into the wider community for over 6 months now.
Great pics Nige. Big parts win hearts as they say around here. Had a boom change out on a 9400 this week. No lips on the Liebherr pins. 24.5 bushes frozen and slotted in on one shift. Note the 0.5
Remember this photo from a few pages back.? Well it looks like this now. Only waiting for one pipe (the big long one right in the middle of the photo where the hose gimps off to the left) but that won't stop it going to work. If everything goes according to plan that missing pipe should rock up today.
Ran out of liquid cold did we..? It's like your Mum's baking. You have to leave the bushes in the oven to cook long enough to be completely done, otherwise you're batting a loser when it comes to installing them in one fell swoop. I always wait until the LN2 stops bubbling, that's what tells me whatever's in there ain't gonna get any colder.
A fable I’ve heard before and one I learned the hard lesson with on main bucket pin on a 994f loader. Learned after that preheating is the only solution in that case. Nah, loads of nitrogen, and it had plenty of time. Problem was it was on the stick that was on the ground, main stick to boom pin and the internal bore that’s a dead end. Lying on the ground and it got a bit crooked, from there it was like kicking a football up a hill. A loosing battle
994F B Pin. They're a sliding fit into the loader arm. The flag on the outside retains the pin. Or were you referring to installing the bush into the end of the loader arm.? My experience with that bush is that provided the loader arm bore diameter is within spec then OEM bushes (but not necessarily aftermarket ones) will slide straight in with a little help from a hardwood block - but you have to get them lined up right. Get them cocked to start with and you're comprehensivley Donald Ducked however much you beat on them. Is it the purple bush in the drawing below you're on about.? Parts Numbers might be a bit outdated now, this is an old drawing. The two green bushes are supposted to float BTW.
Busy today ..........
Looks like a nice day there Nige, I have really enjoyed your postings. Thanks and have a good Christmas.
Currently 84 & sunny. Slight chance of rain showers this afternoon. The 25th will just be another work day........ SWMBO not happy..!
SWMBO must be a very tolerant lady, mine would have launched me into orbit around the sun with a kick in the arse.
This will the the 5th Holiday season in a row that I've been home for either Xmas or New Year and away for the other one. Plus ca change ......
Check in with Craneop ... I think he has a plethora of chain falls. A couple in the front or rear would make for easy fine adjusting.
i wonder if he ever finally managed to get them all untangled .......!!
I can be packed in an hour. A 14 day quarantine would be a short sleep compared to the continued restrictions our dictator governor has put on and keeps extending on the common small business people here.
Does the picture make those power lines look closer than they are? Seems like they would be a problem with those tall cranes.
yeah, sorry, I did mean bush. Only off Nighshift and the brain hasn’t quite re-aligned with reality. They may well have been aftermarket and it had just been line-bored. Not all liner borers are created equal as I’m sure some know. My first christmas off in about 7 years I think. Normally don’t mind working them tbh, this festive season is a mile stone birthday for me so herself insisted I be home for it
Acksherley yes. The lines on the left side are on the opposite side of a road that runs just outside the berm that you can make out in the photo between the front of the truck body that's on the ground, and the shovel. So they are about 10m away from any lifting operations provided said operations do not cross the berm. The line on the right is a bit closer, but fortunately it terminates at the pole you can see and does not run the whole length of the area. The closest we get while lifting to the nearest line strung from that pole is about 5.5m. We have a "close proximity" lifting permit in force for the duration of the job and we make sure any lifts that get close to that power line are done under senior supervision. So far so good.
I understand your frustration, but to do what our government has done on an island measuring 35 miles x 13 and with a population of 85k is a breeze compared to what would have to be done in a country the size of the US to achieve similar results. For comparison look how the UK is doing, they are struggling to keep their heads above water. When you're completely surrounded by water as we are it's a big help in controlling not only who comes & goes but also how they come & go. Break the quarantine/self-isolation rules and it's "Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200." https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle...eaching-self-isolation-after-mcdonalds-visit/
You guys are hilarious - you'd think all I get done is sit around in a cab ...... and ................ pull levers . Chain falls are untangled, thanks to a cut off wheel . Let me know what you need nige, I'll rent, deliver and return to pick them up for a small nominal one time fee.......
So how many did you scrap at the end of it all.?
I understand its not hardly possible here. If the rules were the same for all it would be no problem. Our Menards store proudly proclaims on a huge sign at the door, no more than 500 people allowed in store at one time. Other small businesses that only see one client at a time with no waiting room at all are all shut down. Sorry to go off track. Rant over. I really enjoy watching your builds.
Another one ready to start hauling rock.
The boys must've been keen to get off for their company Xmas lunch. From this ........ .........to this in 4-1/2 days. Not bad I think. Tyres on tomorrow and I reckon she should be hauling dirt by Monday.
The one here has a big sign saying max capacity is over 9000. Whoever wrote the rules down here only cared about total square footage. I haven't bothered to do the math, but I'm pretty sure the store is including the lumber yard.
I think 3 are bad. One has a clutch that free spins. One I shattered a case trying to remove a bolt from the aluminum housing. I don't remember what's wrong with the third. I've used them on a couple jobs. I doubt I will ever use all of them.
They had one like that here a while back but it came down.
I grab chain hoists up for fixed installations. My 5th wheel slider hitch is too heavy to handle, so it gets hoisted into the carport rafters. I have 4 cable slings that got retired off another job wrapped around the trusses to hook it to.
How long does it take ye to shim the body’s? I have re-shimmed old bodys in the past and it’s a tedious process With Australian rules around safety. Could take a day if it’s pretty munted
Not to change the subject but a good rule of thumb for stores to use as social distance is---------------the distance at which you can smell a fart.
I can generally do one in a couple of hours or less if it doesn't need much. The procedure is the same if you're installing/shimming a Cat body or any aftermarket body that requires shimming to Cat specs. The procedure is different on a body such as a DT Hiload. The Cat body requires 2-3mm of additional compression on the two pivoting pads mounted up on the smoke beam compared to the rest of the pads on the chassis. DT Hiload bodies require an air gap to be left between the pads on the smoke beam and the front body rests. The figures I have for Cat trucks are anything from 5mm for a 777 up to 12mm for a 797, but the actual value you have to use depends not only on the truck model but also the capacity of body that is installed on it. See if the attached is any help. It achieves the same end result as the procedure in SIS but does it in a simpler way. The process is two steps; 1 - Get the body and the chassis rails parallel. 2 - Set the compression on the smoke beam pads.
Must be haul truck season. We have eight 777G's to build and deliver. Two have been sent out, two are on the pad behind the shop and three beds are waiting for sideboards. The rumor mill is saying there may be four more ordered in January.
Never put together a 777G. Are these new machines.? How do they get shipped to you.? Cab, front suspensions, fuel tank, & rear axle on or off.?
Our area is the land of little trucks. the larger ones are further east of us. They are reasonably new. We built some in 2012 for a customer. The strange part is the ship weights. The chassis comes with engine, torque converter, rear suspension arms mounted, engine tin and radiator. Cab, rear axle, front struts with wheel groups come on a second truck. The chassis weight is 40K so they show up on a step deck. The bed weighs 48K and it arrives on a step deck. When they leave the shop they leave full dress.
Just the same way the 789 chassis come in then. See first photo in Post #528 above. Dump bodies for the 789s come in 3 pieces on one trailer. They are "lightweight" bodies but still come in at 29.8 tonnes/66k pounds. How far are they being taken after assembly.? Something as small as a 777 anything under 100 miles we'd just drive them there.
The first delivery was a little over 100mi south of us headed towards Las Vegas. The second and third are a solid 100mi east. We made the news the last time someone drove a haul truck out of Reno.
Do it at stupid o'clock on a Sunday morning like we used to do. Anyone who thought they saw it would've just put it down to too having taken on board too many sherbets.......
This truck was stolen and driven toward California on the interstate in the middle of the day. It was stopped by a low flying overpass on top of Donner Summit. I couldn't find the news article on it. This happened some time ago. Alot of crazy things get moved on the desert but driving haul trucks or any other really large machines to their location is frowned upon. Because of the width the trucks are police escorted from the shop to the location. It's an expensive move.
But if you think about it they are less of a highway obstruction if they are self-propelled (as opposed to being hauled on a lowboy) even though a police escort would still be required. As proved by this image in the mirror of my pickup from a number of years ago ............
Logic and common sense are often strangers to those in authority.
Found this drone photo of the area we are using for assembly. It looks even smaller in this photo than it does on the ground.
Reno is like Las Vegas. The towns that never sleep.
Great picture. It would look cool on the man cave wall.
It's been a few years, but the last time I was in Reno I thought the whole town was comatose....
Yes, but at Stupid o'clock on a Sunday morning most people who are out & about are still most likely either hammered or stoned........
It's laughable-the farmers around here drive combines {minus header-90% of the time} Quad Case IH or Cat rubber band tractors pulling cultivators and what have you right down the highway with two pilot pickups with beacons you can see from twenty feet away in the dark because they went cheap and bought them from Harbor Freight to alert traffic that their totally monstrous farm equipment that they brag cost them there youngest child hence {Harbor Freight} is taking up 85% of the road.
We have the same thing here minus the pilot pickups. At night you just assume they are taking up 3/4 of the road just to be on the safe side. I was listening to a farmer complain about cars passing him on the left while he was trying to turn left into a field. All kinds of flashing lights on the tractor and implement and he said he almost hit a car. I said that with all those flashing lights when a farmer puts on his turn signal it really doesn't catch the eye of the other motorists unless they are really paying attention (which we all know is very seldom).
It's bad when you think there's a vehicle coming at you because the rear lights on the tractor are on. On a hwy. you come up on them pretty fast.
Around here they give tickets to equipment traveling on the road with rear work lights on.
When the "work lights" are often all on one switch the only way I could see to get around that is to pull the electrical connections on the rear ones if the operator wants to be able to see where he's going...........
Never been around the really big stuff but everything we run has the headlights and work lights on a separate circuit. Most of the work lights are grouped as well. Turn signals and brakes lights are also fitted to anything with rubber tires designed to be roaded.
It was a JD tractor and the rear lights were bright enough you couldn't see any other lights like flashers or slow moving signs and they weren't pointed down. They were pointed down from the top of the cab to light up behind the tractor like the front headlights.
Well that’s the last truck just headed out to start moving dirt. So in the immortal words of that fat c**t Cartman from South Park - “Screw you guys I’m going home.”
Have a safe trip and stay well
Nige you sure you want to go home with the new version of "The Bug" there? You coming back to assemble a few more of those Lego toys? I could send my 6 year old grandkid down to help! Only problem is he would be trying to mount a boom from one of the excavators on the front of a haul truck to have it load itself!
Good for you, have a good vacation.
But check in here because you're needed.
Thanks John. Same to you. Ah but, mon brave, you forget that I have an apartment in Colombia and it is in that direction I will be winging my merry way a few hours from now .......... Quite frankly the UK in winter (all issues of pandemics aside) is not somewhere one would go by choice if there was another option available. Which in my case there is.
You want Nige to take the Polar route home in winter. Good luck with that I reckon
No, just he's a wealth of knowledge on here so hopefully he can still check in while on vacation.
Well He will be bored sitting in his flat in Columbia. Enoy the break Nige.
Stay safe Nige .
Many years ago (20) when I worked on the family farm, we would put the rear work lights on so drivers could see the equipment hanging on the tractor, marker lights were used but couldn't be seen as the headlights would distract oncoming drivers. So the sensible thing to do is illuminate the equipment so they could see it before hitting it. The down side was those coming from behind were dazzled! damned if you do, damned if you don't>
friend of mine has a farm tractor that has so many lights on it it looks like a gas station moving across a field at night
All the new ones look that way now. From the operators perspective, it's fantastic being able extend your working hours, especially when you have the right conditions and need to get acres done. I've spent many hours on a Deere 8650, 8440 or Case 9250 with only two underpowered lights pointed forward and struggling and straining to see obstacles or keep a straight line. I was amazed the first time I ran the 32 ft cultivator behind our 9230 with high output light package. I can easily see beyond my working width and no more surprises to come across. You can see what is coming up ahead, and what is happening behind. That said, we generally don't road equipment in the dark. We just park it where we finished and have someone pick us up and drop us off in the morning. When we do travel at night, we set it to road mode so all rearward facing and upper mounted lights are turned off.
think his is a valtra.big tractor
The tractor I came up on had no implements, just the tractor. Flashers on the back would have been better.
I once raked 40 acres of alfalfa with the light selector in 'road.' It was the only position on the switch that would work and it was going to rain in the morning. I could only see behind me when the flashers hit. The outside round with fence on all 4 sides was stressful to say the least.
Self loading truck brilliant
Nige, I'm bored. When will you be back on the road again? Joe H
I really need to take some more snaps from the photo album of the final days of the assembly and post them up, but TBH during those few days I was more focused on getting the job done and my *** on a plane to be posting. Since getting the New Year out of the way it has been a case of catching up with the list of "apartment maintenance" jobs that SWMBO had been saving up for me during the 6 months I was away. I'm like "Why didn't you get someone in to do it?" Reply - "However good it was you wouldn't have been happy with it". No rest for the wicked......
She's probably right, I know the times we have hired work done around the house more often than not I'm not happy with the results. I won't bore with the details!
Sitting here daydreaming and up popped an exchange I had with my dad many times when we were working together. Dad: Is it right.? Me: It's near enough. Dad: You know that near enough's not good enough don't you.? Me: Well in that case it's right. Dad: That's near enough.
"Any job big or small, do it right or not at all." My favorite shop teacher and a friend still today at age 88, always said that. I admit I am not always the perfect student.
"If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it the second time? " quote by John Wooden. This was told to me as a teenager by my grandfather when I did a half assed repair because I felt rushed. I wasn't a perfect student either, but I'm improving.
I love that, lol. Of course it seems to me that my Dad thought I never did anything right. Probably his was the same with him. Ah well.
Enjoy the Light Weight work Nige, a little breather never hurts.
I think it's a dad/son thing TBH.
Well I clean forgot the photos I promised to upload until now. Here's the bucket going on the shovel. After getting everything lined up an IT38 was used to push the pins in. The main pins weigh about 200kg each.
The shovel and the next-to-last truck all ready to go........... And on the ready line.
The last one coming back into the assembly area from the welding shop having had the body installed. And on it's way out to work a couple of days later......... Here endeth the lesson ...........
Lots of Large Heavy stuff Impressive Nige in any man’s consideration
I dunno. Maybe it's just the fact that I'm used to it after having been in that side of the industry for so many years but I find working on big stuff easier than working on small stuff for the simple reasons that a) components are not shoe-horned in, and b) usually the location is tooled up to work with equipment of that size. Everything from cranes, jacks, lifting gear, torque tooling, etc, etc. All you have to do is ask for what you need and someone produces it.
Makes it too easy Nige
I'll take easy over hard any day of the week........
Not touching that with a 20 foot pole
mantenga el distanciamiento social = maintain social distance ? If my very rusty Spanish is correct.
You are correct. All 6 trucks had slogans put on the headboard that were Covid-related in one way or another.
Happy to hear a so called 3rd World country is taking Covid seriously. Around here in this dump 80% of the population reckon they won't get it.
Having worked in Serth Efrika in the past I understand your frustration but it would be good in a certain way. It would at least give Darwin a chance to throw a bucket of bleach in the gene pool. In an effort to mitigate the effects of the 2nd wave of Covid the entire country is on curfew. Mon-Fri that means that all businesses have to close at 5:00pm and everyone has to be off the streets by 8:00pm. Weekends everything closes at 12 noon and everyone has to be inside no later than 3:00pm.
There are a lot of people that think they are immune to it and masks are a bad idea. Pfizer wants Canada to offer tax breaks. That would certainly explain why Canada's deliveries of the vaccine are being delayed. Trying to to get the pandemic under control should be the first priority not corporate greed. Thousands of companies are going under and Pfizer wants tax breaks when they stand to make billions on their vaccine. There's also reports that less wealthy countries aren't being shipped as much vaccine. If there's even an ounce of truth to any of this Pfizer (or any other vaccine producers) should be held accountable! Pfizer pitches Canada for tax breaks in upcoming budget | CTV News
Sing your song somewhere else Dave. It’s getting a bit wearing.....
STL College of Medicine Professor and lab experimenter has come across a Nasal Mist Vaccine much as developed for Flu inoculating children. Uses a Inert Common Cold Virus as transporter and so far NO Needle jabs, NO Second Injection and lasts up the three times LONGER as a vaccine. Many news sources are calling it Non Viable as the Fed has spent BILLIONS on the existing vaccine. This could wipe a lot of High End pharmacologic developers profits away. This article is from back in September and the local news ran with it yesterday interviewing the scientist that developed it at Wash U. St. Louis-based Precision Virologics and India's Biotech leader Bharat Biotech obtain rights to intranasal COVID-19 vaccine technology (prnewswire.com)
I've had the first shot of the Pfizer vax. I don't deny Pfizer will make billions of $. Moderna is charging twice Pfizer's per dose price. So what, there's billions of profit. It's very much like the oil companies with billions in profit. Big risks need big profits. Several companies have abandoned their covid vax. That's a bunch of money down the drain for them. No one is reimbursing them. Here's Merck's loss >> https://www.barrons.com/news/pasteur-institute-merck-abandon-covid-19-vaccine-01611577507 I and most people want their product regardless of the cost. Try driving without fuel.
I second Nige's comment about the whiny crap. Big machines don't get sick from bugs. I thought that was what this thread was about.
Unless they're electronic or software bugs ... My New machine is full of electronics. It tells ME what to do ... "Wait, I'm warming, I'm busy regen'ing, Too hot to work, PTO overspeed, Not in neutral, Sit your butt down, Water in fuel, Can't breath, etc. "
Kind of like a wife
A bit like me and work. Always in the *****, it’s only the depth that varies
Kinda like the tail waging the dog.
The opposite of what you've doing Nige.
I think it would be cool to be part of the assembly team and then to be the first one to stick the bucket into the dirt. I hope they use lots of anti seize. I had a spot opportunity to go bak to work at one point and skipped it and really should have looked for something like that. I got drafted so to speak in a family biz and I really should have went back to trade work for another pass. All this looks like fun and it is for about 2 weeks then its more work. I should have been doing it not cause I like it but because I am good at it. Engineers or most of them can dream up and calculate stuff makes me look like I am still eating dirt but when it comes to the simple pound and pry in the right spot with a little lift on I got it in spades and in speed, got a good eye for square and level and balance. Blocking jacking and cranes are second nature.
The big wind towers would have been ok but this might have been more interesting in some sense. As for changing the cooler prolly a do able job when its new,,, ha, fill that thing with a few 1000 hrs of dirt and oil and its gotta be double the fun.
So what are you up to now Nige? job is done, retired?
Until the next phone call, yes. The longer it goes I think the less likely I am to want to pack a bag and jet off to another boil on the ******* of the world again. I turn 70 in a few weeks. I completed that job coming up to a year ago and have been "enjoying retirement" since then. Problem is that with travel restrictions as they are at present there aren't really many places that we could get into.
Enjoy your retirement. You are a wealth of knowledge and experience. Thank you for not letting it go to waste and helping strangers all over the world.
We are so fortunate to have Nige on the forum! On another note, the cellulitis in my arm is still there but way smaller than it was. I was having a lot of trouble swallowing pills which is one of the factors. Dr. said to concentrate on my pain med. first. I should be able to take the other pills easier now so hopefully they get rid of the semi-hard lump on my arm. It's about the size of a tennis ball but at its worst was probably 5 tennis balls. It doesn't bother me and apparently isn't uncommon after having a pick line for IV.
Well here we are back again for another rodeo. However this one will hopefully not involve having to travel to another boil on the *** of the world. Right now I'm doing stuff for them from home. Filo del Sol Mine Jason Hughes · San Juan Province, Argentina ★★★★★ · Mining company www.google.com
Hello Nige Keep up the good work you are a help to all of us. I am 82 and still going strong I am of the opinion that to retire and site down on my bottom Like my father did leads to a nothing existence that is unrewarding. Phil P
I'm troubleshooting problems over the phone myself. Its not paying work but does keep me at home.
Sounds good Nige, I'm not far behind you.
Here's a question for the HEF massive. Does anyone have experience of engines using ultra-low sulphur diesel (ULSD) in ambient temperatures down to -20 DegC/-4 DegF and possibly even lower.? I'm assuming for ambient temps that low it has to be a #1 diesel fuel rather than a #2.? Correct me if I am wrong. Problems encountered.? Additives required.? etc, etc. Answers on a postcard to the usual address please.
I remember travelling to Idaho and by December it was #1 at the pumps because of gelling. I never had problems because the coldest times I was there (-9f) I happened to be in a gasser. I have operated my common rail Cummins at 4f on #2 , don't recall an issue that trip but perhaps I got lucky.
-4 requires a cut of 25% stove/#1 diesel, -20 to -40 requires a cut of 50%. When I use to run British Columbia I remember one trip to Kelowna it was -45, I was the only one that made the dock that morning, I passed countless dead ones on the way. I was running about 60% #1. Smokes a little more and a little less on power but it stays running.
Can laugh but in one old DD engine repair manual it had a UNLEADED Gas to #2 Blending rate from the ?1950s? NO MORE THAN 5 gal Regular UNLEADED or as the chart noted NO Lead Gas to 100 gal #2 Diesel Fuel, was good to -40F. 2.5-3gal to 100 gal was good to -30F to control Parafin Precipitant. Once Mixed USE IT ALL before make another Blend.
That's somewhat in line with what I was thinking based on past experience. Certainly a 25% cut was very normal. The big fly in the oitment is that what we are talking about here is not regular "full fat" diesel but ULSD which is what the customer wants to run. Personally I think cutting a #2 diesel with kerosene (which is always how it used to be done up in the mountains back in the day) will not play well with the DPF/CEM modules installed on a TIER 4 Final engine. I'm canvassing other opinions just in case fuel technology has moved on and these days it will actually work. The other (more expensive) option of course is purchase a fully-refined #1 diesel from the refinery instead of a #2 diesel cut with kerosene, but I'm not sure even that will work. That's another thing we need to avoid like the plague. At 15-17,000ft altitude the engines are going to be somewhere around 20% derated anyway. Need to get every ounce of energy we can from the fuel.
Really surprised the DOC Systems will function at those temps Nige, trying to maintain over 1200 degrees with Thin Altitude and temps so low, cannot imagine not getting massive fault failures.
I am a firm believer in treating the fuel a week or two before the temps plummet to get rid of any moisture that has accumulated during the warmer months. Power Service is probably the most popular fuel treatment. Personally I am a fan of Howes only because I had a bad experience with PS a number of years ago. A blend of 75% #2/ 25% #1 should take care of your needs at those temps.
That's why I'm trying to round up as much information as possible regarding the use of ULSD at very low temperatures before tackling the customer on it. Calling @Coaldust - you're up.........
In my experience when a job site is burning 10,000+ gallons of diesel a day moisture doesn't get much chance to accumulate in the tanks.
Well you liked my post above. Whaddaya think, or is that thunk.? Got any words of wisdom.?
When I say power drops-it's slight just noticeable depending on how much #1 is used to make a reliable cut. At 25% it's very little. As far as DOC and ULSD goes When at my old company, and running across I94 northern tier Montana/N. Dakota Sometimes the fuel was cut with #1 running DD15's, as far as I know it never caused any issues.
What’s the supply chain look like in that part of the world? Where does the fuel come from? ASTM spec ULSD #1 has a cloud point of -40. Would it make sense to switch over? Random thoughts; You could do a 50/50 blend AND additize to get where you need to be. Lots of room for error. We are switching over next week in my neck of the woods. Thing to watch out for is a lot of the kero, Jet-A, heating oil is 500 ppm sulfur. Even in the states, kerosene can be high sulfur (500 ppm). Blending with Jet-A can be problematic because the cetane is lower than what you want.
In the end it will probably be buying premixed if available with PS. Or buy 55's of PS and make your own brew. PS can reliably work at -20 or slightly lower.
A buyer has to be careful purchasing #1 because it’s so common for it to be non-spec. We ran into that last winter in Western AK. When it all started gelling at -20f. So, definitely write a solid contract and pull samples and test the API before accepting the delivery.
Let’s be careful and not get our Feirinhets and Celsius mixed up. I don’t think it’s possible to additize #2 reliably to a cloud point of -20F. I’m a fan of PS on the retail side. Once you get into bulk territory, it’s more economical and easier to purchase drums of innospec cold flow improver. One drum will treat 1 million gallons.
Which that was good to note--fueling on the west side of the Cascades could have consequences. because of that very thing, as you drove east the fire slowly went out.
I say that as a Max, truthfully -10 is about it in most cases. Because I'm in the U.S. I only talk Fahrenheit.
That’s a sight to see. All those rigs parked on the side of the road.
Great for the towing business.
Even with supposedly “ASTM spec” fuel today, cetane can be all over the place. That’s a huge issue in cold weather with trying to get the fire started. That’s another benefit of PS.
Are you running DEF systems, or are you able to avoid that? Because DEF freezes up pretty quick in those kind of temps. Are they running 24 hours, or do you have to try to get everything running every morning for a day shift? I tend to be "once I get it running, don't shut it off" in the -20 temps.
AFAIK no DEF, or at least that’s what I’ve been led to believe. I need to confirm that. At this point I don’t know. It might not be a 24/7 operation at the start. Again up in the air at the moment.
I use Power Service Winterizer at half rate down to 0°F and full rate down to -10°F. I've had zero problems with gelling. Some of my friends that buy winterized diesel from the local fuel supplier have had problems at the same temps. It's supposed to work down to -20°F, but I haven't had the motivation to start anything at those temps. They do sell it in totes and bulk. DEF tanks on machines have heaters and the computer gives you 30 minutes before throwing a code for DEF injection failure when the ambient temp is low enough for DEF to freeze. The DEF tanks on the fuel and lube trucks being heated might be important.
Only one major fuel supplier - YPF, aka Repsol. Three flavours of diesel. ULSD (<15ppm), 900ppm and 2000ppm.
I think looking for an aviation oxygen supplier would be of the utmost importance since you'll be going from sea level
Our small exploration camp (Uranium) in the Puna (Salta province) of Argentina (14,000-16000’) just ignored all diesel gelling issues etc (lol!). Pickups/excavators stumble-stall-then slowly ramp up as engine bays warmed (-8-10c max) Remember arriving in camp and feeling winded just carrying hockey bag of gear into room! Put in 104 days straight in 2008 (3 projects in Canada and Argentina)leave camp for time off—-hilux stumbling—-concerned as 8 hour drive to Salta airport.. This was in 2007-2008 so not many emissions concerns! Scenery was stunning though! Enjoy, Nige… Really enjoy your posts!
Not exactly sea level. Done it plenty of times. Driving up from the nearest town at about 650m ASL is not as scary as you might imagine. Most job sites have air strips for emergencies but no way would you catch me flying up there.
The last time I flew into Salta airport was from Bajo de Alumbrera. That's a few years ago now. As towns go there are a lot worse in the country than Salta. I know, I must have been to most of them. The nearest city to the job site is San Juan and I've been there before. Quite a few times actually. The restaurants there used to serve unusually good steak as I recall.
Sure is a nice area! We were located near Cerro Galan.. Some large (surficial) lithium deposits were not far from camp (Rio los Patos). Back then the major importance of lithium wasn’t recognized. One of the ‘top’ workers in camp operated the Komatsu 200. He was a Argentinian local…he showed great respect for the machine: Windex windows each morning, sweep cab of dust. Then: warm up slowly; bucket, stick, boom, tracks Best of luck!
Yes a lot of really good wood fired barbecue restaurants!
Sounds like an interesting adventure.
Not to derail thread---In winter of 1988 an arctic blast hit in easter washington. I towed no less than 13 gelled that barely made the Rye Grass rest area on I-90. The temp up there was -28 with a 25 to 30 mph wind which puts windchill in the neighborhood of -63. All trucks that fueled in Oregon or Westside. Some were running nothing but additive at what was max level on full tanks. Could stand a stick straight up in it. Some had blended with 40% stove, but to add to the quote of API--truck stops by the cheapest they can, and what was thought to be good fuel at super low temps is only marginal at best. And that was only from that rest area, IIRC I towed over 22 trucks in 38 some hours.
From Wiki: "San Juan is renowned internationally as a stronghold of roller hockey "
I remember that winter because I was headed back to school after winter break. Trucks all over.
Was not better in the Midwest, we had a local wrecker service at Garage I worked, five 60’ pull thru bays and in That time frame at least once a week for several weeks had to plow snow from shop door regions, bays stayed full, -15 was a harsh typical with our area Truckstops selling what was in the tanks gave no care they would not make ten miles. Hands still hurt thinking on how cold and the average gel up was as TS noted, stand a broom handle Up in fill hole, would not fall over. We used PS by the barrel if could get it, by jugs as last resort as to being severe expensive from supplier. Made some good coin dragging thawing and treating. Seemed as every couple years that would cyclical repeat.
Ah, the good old asado. Not barbecue as our US friends would understand it though. This is basically giant slabs of meat cooked over hard wood.
Northern US plains 20 below F isn't unusual. If you are trying to run in lower temps than that, then you get into the exotic stuff like antifreeze lines running through the fuel tanks, fuel line heaters. I've installed the silicone pad heaters on fuel tanks and hydraulic tanks. Antifreeze heaters. There's all kinds of ways to work around temperature extremes. But I've never dealt with any of that at altitude. I'd be very interested to know how much difference that makes, just because its out of my regular wheelhouse.
Most people outside of the Southern US mis-use the term BBQ to begin with and use the term in place of grilling. BBQ is larger cuts of beef, pork or chicken cooked low and slow over hickory, pecan, oak or mesquite. Very few people BBQ - they are actually grilling. Huge fan of the asado and have been studying the techniques as a hobby. Bought Frances Mallman's book 7 Fires which breaks down Argentinian cooking from the meat to sides. I have had this beauty for almost 10 years now. Love to have one of those Tagwoods with the cross.
Idea--do two things at once, wrap 220v heating cable around tanks enough so can cook/sear beef at same time, save on firewood. Install arctic fox heaters just let'um run 24/7. Mining companies must have lots of dough.
The dog ^^^ has that look in his eyes......
"Her". Lucy my right hand gal and truck dog - always hunting or looking for some piece of meat I've dropped.
Whatever puts my hamburger down the throat hole faster is good by me. Don't have hours to wait on supper! Hell ill eat a TV dinner half froze if it's not cooked in 5 minutes.
Up here is Saskatchewan -40C/F is common during winter. We run straight #1 diesel. I work on a fleet of trucks that run far north/ ice roads. Yes they run with DEF, the tanks thaw out in about 20 mins after starting to drive. No fuel tank heaters or anything crazy. As long as its true winter diesel everything seems to operate fine.
So you are talking about a refined #1 diesel as opposed to a #2 cut with a percentage kerosene.?
Yup. Refined right outta the pump. They start blending 1 and 2 in November then usually by December its a straight #1
The other thing is return fuel--heating, Cat as of years ago starting with E models required a minimum volume of 90 gal capacity if only running one tank because of fuel temp. Later engines run higher constant temp so return fuel tends to be pretty toasty.
I think they start blending as early as September in Alberta. It can be pretty cold in November.
Now that explains why the latest project has a fuel cooler on it a peter car getting a s..t spreader on it has a c11 in it
The local COOP switches to a blend of #1 #2 towards the start of November but has strait #1 available further east up the Fraser Valley as of Nov 1. By the end of November, everything is #1. Got caught in a cold snap with #2 in the tractor and only#2 in a Jerry can a few winters ago, I asked last year and had to talk to several people at the COOP before getting an answer from the Fuel Manager in Chilliwack ( an hour east).