We all know of the various blind spots on equipment, and in the public outside of a construction site extra safety measures need to be met to eliminate risk. However on a construction site when is the operator responsible for someones death and when is it the responsibility Of the people on the ground to stay out of the way. I’m going to use large excavators as an example because it’s where the most issues have occurred in our work. Are you expected to check your counterweight for people passing by every swing? We had a guy walk tight to a 350 cat to check grade only thing that saved him was he forgot his spray paint. We have also had it happen to another Excavation company where a new guy walked between a manhole and the excavator and he was no more. As engineers have to keep making sites tighter and tighter and new workers enter the workforce I have a hard time seeing when it is ever the operators fault if he’s doing his regular checks and has a spotter. Roofers walking behind backhoes, labourers walking into a tri axles, soil engineers stoping to tie there shoe sitting in a pile of fill. Electricians assuming they have right of way and driving in front of a full speed wheel loader. Like I got a bit of first aid but I’m not gonna be able to fix this stuff guys haha. Everytime I’ve asked the question to people in charge of companies or sites the response is always “if they are too dumb to stay alive then there’s nothing that you can do”. Whenever I’m in equipment I just assume everything is my fault so I am slower then most guys.
you do things the same safe way, every time. be consistent. Bring up the site issues at the Monday Safety meeting. You do have site safety meetings? I advise others to throw things at me in tight spots, seriously. Toss a rock or clod of dirt where I can see it in my peripheral vision, and I will stop, flip the lever, and start looking for you. If you come squeaking past me in a tight spot unannounced, I will let you know that it is a bad practice.
The company should put a camera system on the rear and sides on every piece of equipment. It’s pennies compared to one OSHA fine, much less a lawsuit or insurance premiums. Unfortunately with the complete lack of common sense these days you get stuff like that. Hell we have ONE guy who should know better who will dart behind you or up into a crush point such as an articulated joint and he’s been a mechanic for forty years. This thread reminded me to cuss him out next time he does that **** to me. My primary method of correction for stupid stuff is to come down from the machine and cuss them out like a drill instructor, it usually gets the point across when nothing else will.
It’s funny you say that sadly I’m the only one who throws things on site in this manner. However I will be the guy to throw hand tools and throw my hard hat too the temper will get better with age haha…
Yes all our equipment has at least the rear camera except the backhoe but it’s pretty good for visibility. And in terms of safety talks it gets brought up almost every time but I guess that just makes it seem less critical as though people are getting numb to the same message every day.
As an operator, you need to be aware of your surroundings. But unless you have a camera, it's hard to see back there. Our policy is always make eye contact with the operator before you approach the machine. Common sense would tell you not to walk into a blind spot. I have the camera on the back of my grader set so I can see close to the rear. I have mirrors to see farther. I also have the camera on all the time. If it just comes on in reverse, it might be too late. We had a land slide on a job once, a large fill pushed the material under it and pretty much blocked a river. We were following the plan, so we didn't get in trouble. Anyway, every hoe and dozer went to work to open the waterway, and stablize the area. I was a truck driver then, and the boys worked into the night. I went around and brought water to everyone in the dark. I made sure they saw me before I approached them. One of the guys I went to was off the fill in an area with a lot of brush. As I walked away, I fell into a crack in the ground head first. If he had not watched me walk away, and fall, he had planed to start digging there next. I would say the guilt over killing someone for their stupid move would be as bad as being blamed. Same company. Guy was spreading material with a D8L. I mentioned this story before. This company had a professional dump man. He bent down to tie his boot in front of the pile, got burried in the pile. Tractor man saw the flagger throw her sign out on the highway, and com running across the marsh. He backed up looking at her wondering what was wrong. Swung to get the next pile, and saw the guy sit up out of the material. Had he not been looking at the flagger, he would have swung sooner to tramp the material. Only injury the guy had was a skinned nose from the bottom of the cutting edge. I was always told to mark everything down. Every concern, every conversation. Safety is the only instance where **** runs up hill.
I don't legally whats the answer but I'd know if youd kill someone and it wasn't your fault I'm sure it would stick with you for a long time. People mess up, I never give them the chance to need up in my space.
"Get where I can see you" I have hollered many times, and I'm not a professional.
I have to do night operations. I carry a small flashlight and make sure anyone else knows I am there. It always costs more to work in the dark, I try very hard to make sure it doesn't cost a life.
One of the things I’ve seen on jobs is a 360 halo light for hard hats It’s a damn good idea, IMHO.
My mother lost her father at an early age, crushed between a counter weight and a bank. That was the late thirties when big iron was relatively new. No excuse for it now days. My thoughts were to make it black and white. First time is a warning, second time is a termination. The operator only has two eyes and his job is to move material. People on the ground are responsible for themselves. No body can afford a human job site hazard.
As was mentioned already, legal really don't matter. You gotta live with it if something goes wrong. The company I do work for has had me installing special camera based artificial intelligence computer systems into a few pieces of equipment. The system recognizes the human form and alarms on the screen with sound and red flashing lights. It lets you know as soon as someone enters your zone. Pretty cool, pretty expensive.
Last year I had a guy working for me; he was working the grade rod on a foundation dig. I was digging the last bit of shallow frost wall close in, undermining the tracks a bit. I swung away probably 3/4 the way around for where I had to dump, and come whirling back around, full throttle, full swing. There he is, flat on his back, rubbing his forehead seeing major stars. He had decided that he needed to get the grade right in the corner, and apparently thought he would try to dodge the machine. Took the counterweight straight to the forehead. I think he said he forgot about the tail. He was alright, but man, kind of hard for me to wrap my head around stuff like that.
Construction outfit I worked for years ago one operator named Paul {We called him the Large German} would start the morning the same way by telling everyone. Stay insight of the operator, if you get injured and live then I'm going to injure you some more you will wish you died the first time.
I don't have cameras on the dirt equipment. It is not a requirement nor is it something to replace looking around. On those high track dozers the front view is the worst. Cross behind me please. i have posted this set of images for years now, and GLY safety has put it in their presentations. They don't have dozers or do dirt work but they like the graphic. From the operator's seat, lean one way: lean the other way:
That is our first and foremost safety procedure. If this was drilled into every trade worker on the job from concrete guys to the final cleaning crews we would see less caught in/between incidences. Never ceases to amaze me the stupidity of grown men and women on the job site that will blindly walk around heavy equipment operating.
those guys that try to dart past an excavator, I call them squirrels. Or T-balls. I struggle to maintain composure, but I know that being "that mean old man" does not get the message out. Take a few breaths and say that most of all I want you to get home to your family in the same shape you left this morning.
And how about when they aren't on the ground, but are driving a dump truck. I don't know how many times, stacking piles with a loader, standing up on the pile at a 30 or 40 degree angle, click it in reverse and glance in the mirrors and there is a dump truck trying to sneak behind ...
I was grading the slope and armoring underneath a pile cap with a 400. The only way to do it was to track in and out with the bucket extended and back up totally blind. My apprentice was carrying material away from behind me, and was instructed to stay out of the way. He darted in there with the 966, and I did not even feel it as I pinned it across the tires and started scooting it across the ground. The boss was watching from the abutment and was not impressed. He was a one year apprentice that went back to being an ironworker. If I wanted to waste stakes all I had to do was point them out and tell him to save them, and they were never seen again.
The old man that worked for me when I first started taught me the "Stick in the Sightline" trick. I usually tell my customers that's the safest way to get my attention if they can't call me via phone - a flying stick coming in from the side or rear of my attention zone while working. I'm almost always paying attention to the cutterhead when moving forward so a stick that comes flying into that zone always gets my attention. Cameras don't have good enough definition to always show people distinctly. Walking up to one of my machines while I'm working, and yes, some idiots DO THIS, is basically a pain or death wish if a chunk gets thrown at them. I commonly try to chuck unwanted debris off into the woods on certain jobs to save customers money, if it is safe to do so. I can easily discharge some larger chunks up to 200+ feet if I want/need to. I do what I can to operate as safely as possible but Darwin is always steering idiots on a painful path to test my patience.
People are stupid when it comes to equipment working. Maybe signs would help some telling anyone on site to check in with the site manager before going anywhere near working equipment. Having 2 way radios in the machine would be a good idea so the operators knew when someone was coming to see them or even be working near them. People are still stupid though. At my MX track I was hauling a load of sand on to the track and asked a guy to stop anyone from going on the track until I got back. It would take about 5 minutes. Just as I'm backing up beside a jump to dump the load, I see somebody ride by. I dump the load as quick as I can and then see the guy I asked to stop everybody ride by. ***! I manage to get back and flag this moron down. I asked him what the hell is going on. He then said the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I thought you were finished. I told you to wait until I got back to the parking lot. Then he said something even stupider. I saw that other guy go out so thought it was OK. You knew I was still out there! I said you mess with a 5 ton truck on a bike you're going to lose everytime. Ever the idiot he says it would be bad to hit a pile of sand on the track too. Then I explained, 1st the sand is off to the side where nobody really goes and 2nd you know exactly where the sand was being dumped and 3rd you can see it well before when you're going around the corner before the jump. I said personally if I had a choice I'd much rather run into a pile of sand than a truck. I was using the sand to fill a bit of a hole in front of the jump before a lot of people showed up. There were only 3 riders at the track at the time. It would have taken about 10 more minutes to drive the skid steer out to spread the sand but I just told riders to watch for it when they signed up and spread it after the track closed. That guy had to be about the biggest moron I've ever encountered. Instead of admitting he totally forgot why he was standing at the entrance of the track tried to put the blame on me for trying to fix the track for him and other riders. Almost unbelievable how dumb this guy was.
Thing is on a large job, you get used to the machinery, and kind of tune it out. I find a large job with a bunch of backup alarms going, you start to tune it out. One of the loaders at the quarry has a large strobe light, as well as an odd sounding backup alarm. If you don't notice the strobe on the rear of the machine, you'll hear that funky alarm.
You guys realize that having this conversation adds up to more interference with Natural Selection.But looking at it seriously none of us want to be part of an accident. If im set up with a crane on a site theres a conversation in the morning tailgate meeting about making eye contact with the operator and expect a wave to pass when its good to do so. Always pass me on the cab side never on the off side. If the site is tight ill cone and flag my turning radius ,but theres still guys that want to lift the flagging and pass thru which results in a more direction conversation with me or my ground man.We always use good radios which helps the crew keep eyes on strangers on site. Even in my pickup i wont cross a log sort or gravel pit without eye contact and exchanged waves to pass from the operator. Ive had guys pass around me and look at me like what hell are you sitting for. Horns and backup alarms tend to lend to confusion and complacancy.Try and stay focussed on a lift when your running a crane with a rear camera flashing away at you. Eye contact with operators or ground men and common sense work well in my opinion.Stay Safe !
When I was an apprentice doing some underground conduit work in a new complex, the hoe operator instructed me about being seen. I was amazed that he was so focused on the bucket that he would not notice me until he was lifting the bucket to empty it. I worked with him for a few weeks and really learned how to stay alive. Cam
Last year I got to deal with a nearly fatal accident response and investigation. I had to sit with a lawyer for two hours telling the story, sweated worrying about dealing with OSHA (they decided not to come), and so on. And finally the worry of if there was a court case dealing with being called on the stand. It was no small amount of stress and worry
"However on a construction site when is the operator responsible for someones death and when is it the responsibility Of the people on the ground to stay out of the way." Is that a serious question or just a rant? Operators and drivers are to be responsible for safe operation and every move there machine makes at all times or they need a new job. As far as legally who knows its to late then anyways but the company will not come out pretty no matter what "Electricians assuming they have right of way and driving in front of a full speed wheel loader" A good reason to slow down and evaluate if running a loader at full speed on a crowded jobsite is the best thing to do everybody is there to get a job done and go home safe The public may be stupid or not paying attention or just not give a hoot what your doing it really doesn't matter you still have to watch out for them if I took out every moron I meet out plowing snow there wouldn't be much traffic anymore
I just left a trenching awareness course put on by the New Brunswick Construction Safety Association. Here are basic precautions for truckers. When there is no signal person, if you can't see, get out and look. Sound horn before moving, use both mirrors (shocker), hazard lights. stop immediately if anyone disappears from view behind you. Don't move until you see the person again. Get out and check if you have to. Workers on foot, be aware of common operator blind spots, stay alert to the location of equipment around you, avoid entering, or standing in blind spots, always remain visible to the operator, eye contact, never stand behind a backing vehicle. Remember, the operator may be able to see you while you are standing, but not if you kneel down or bend over.
It's not hard to be super focused on your work and paying attention to the bucket rather than other things around you. The hoe operator might be working around underground pipes or wires and has to be extremely focused on what he's doing. Good operators can often feel if there is something buried or have to take very precise little bites to help find buried pipes or wires etc. Sometimes things are found that nobody knew were there.
My friend, an equipment operator at work found a small stick by feel when he was digging a trench for me with a backhoe across a grass covered sand field. He “felt” something so I jumped into the trench with a mud stick to investigate. Cam