After I put the 1400 lb. counterweight on the National, my first trip through the local Port of Entry on I-15 went smoothly. No red light, no dreaded message on the digital board they have "park, bring papers inside." So I of course figured I was good to go. Then on about the 12 th. time through, maybe 4 months later, I get the "c'mon in" sign. Turns out my rear axle is over, just enough......so now they have me paying 16 cents a mile plus $256.00 annually. My question is, what about all the driving I do on city streets? Shouldn't that be exempt? I am about to make my first quarterly payment, and went back through my invoices to figure up my highway miles, state and federal highway miles that is, or would it be just state? This is the state of Idaho I'm dealing with, apparently they have authority of the interstate, but city streets? That .16 per mile adds up. I guess I'm not sure what differentiates between them, paying ALL my mileage would be easiest of course, at about $800.00 a year PLUS the annual $256.00 charge. I am going over the scales tomorrow......and this time I will be reading the numbers closely, the other times I wasn't paying attention and/or there were semis in front blocking my view of the display. This time, since I have quit carrying a 350 lb spreader bar I rarely used, (it was fixed, I use my 8' to 14' telescoper mostly) and I plan to, once I get it out of my 40' long garage, run the boom out as far as I can reasonably get away with without looking too goofy, (probably about 4' or 5', normally it's sucked in tight and still barely fits in my garage) in the hope it will take enough weight off that rear axle to keep me legal. No different then the truckers I see with the cheater axles they raise up once past the port.
As far as your over axle permit goes any miles in Idaho would apply. As far as your IFTA it's all by state like usual, I'm assuming you pay that. I wouldn't think city street miles add up to much. It's just a revenue producer for them. Problem is if you declare one mileage for fuel tax then another for your permit, they may catch a discrepancy and come visit you or send a hateful letter lol. Any permit I ever bought that was ton mile I was charged every mile in that state regardless of what kind of highway, road or street is was. Junkyard
If i remember right, Idaho has higher axle weights on state highways than the interstate. Then again, that might just be for the hay haulers.
I would not have thought the Mack / National rig would have been over weight . Where do you mount the 1,400 pound counterweight ? HeavyEquipmentForums When ever I hear the term " Port of Entry "...... Makes me think some gang is waiting to attempt to shake me down for my lunch money . No back road's or alternative routes to avoid the nonsense ?
There is a back road around the Idaho Falls Port. You don't want to take it, unless they are gonna put you in jail for crossing the scales.
Funny story about crossing the scales . We were moving from Indiana to Nebraska back in 1972 . Old man was driving a two ton U-Haul truck with all the furniture & ruck . Mom & I was following in a car . Well guess what ? We got pulled over at a scale house in Missouri . Cop comes out and questions the old Man where we are going & why ? Then they proceeded to question the old Mans license if he was qualified to drive the U - Haul truck . The old Man commended there security measures & mentioned they sure could have used your help as I just got back from a tour in Viet Nam . What a bunch of lame asses ! We went on to Nebraska
My reasoning for trying to weasel out of the overweight charge is because I am just barely overweight.... I was well under before, then adding 1400 lbs to the rear of the turret (National factory certified counterweight, not home made or anything) pretty much right over the rear axle. In a couple hours I'll see in exact numbers (never paid much attention before) what running the boom out accomplishes. If that gets me REAL close to being legal, my next move would be to remove the 2 part jib. I only use it a handful of times a year, ( I have 110' of main boom) and already have an idea and the material to make a gantry crane in my yard just for easily re mounting the jib when needed. I'd rather spend $500.00 on that, one time, then $1200.00 or more, every year, to the state. I know all the ways to sneak around all the ports in my area, including Idaho Falls. They are a pain and not a viablelong term solution. If it all becomes too big a hassle, I'll just suck it up and get used to paying the fee, but I like the idea of legally outsmarting them if at all possible!
If you've got a conex in your yard, I've seen guys swing the jib out on the boom and set it on brackets/ wood blocks on the top of the conex, you sometimes have to use the outrigger jacks and boom and telescope to mount and unmount it, but it might be easier/safer than a gantry. I occasionally unmount my rt jib for inside building work, or close quarters work, I usually use the forklifts or one of the other cranes, but I've usually got help around. I've done it by myself, but its a lot less in and out of the cab if you have help.
Some of the older Groves had a removable counterweight arrangement where it stowed behind the truck cab to take weight off the rears when on the road . The one I'm thinking of had rollers on the bottom of the counterweight so it would roll on top of the chassis . Might be more hassle than it's worth on the National ?
Here in Michigan they can get as much as $2.00 a lb. I've heard. I feel your pain. But the fact is you where still over. I would barrow a set of scales and figure out exactly where to put it every time
I could see that working real well, if I was building a rig up from scratch. Swing around 180 degrees and drop and secure it about 8' forward of where it would be with the boom in the transport mode, tricky! I unexpectedly had to leave the Nat at my last Saturday job site (safe rural area, right next to the customers home, saves him travel time) as the carpenter crew were not able to think ahead and when they framed and sheeted the two end walls (14' high), they couldn't figure out a way to also frame and sheet the 2 remaining walls. So, instead of standing all 4 walls and getting right on setting the trusses, I just stood the two walls and got a ride home,14 miles away. This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy as a recovering carpenter. To make it worse, the two walls are the gable ends of the building, so they are unsupported by each other, IF I had been just setting two walls, I would have set the two that would make a corner, lots more secure, and guess what, it's windy today. Oh well, their poor planning will mean more money for me, but it still bugs me to see such stupidity . I got my running through the scales thing with various boom configurations interrupted, but it's looking good with the numbers I'm seeing so far. I was under the impression it was a 20K limit on the rear axle, not exactly, it's 34K on the tandems, they consider the tandems as a unit. I didn't know that, didn't find that out until just now. As I left my print out of my run through the scales in the Nat, I can't quote the exact numbers, but as I recall the tandems were 34K and some change. Possibly just emptying out my rear dunnage rack, putting all my pads in the bed as far front as possible, would do it. Maybe that AND taking the jib off. Just yesterday the extra fee cost me $7.50, and as I am a penny saved is a penny earned kind of guy, I will go to some lengths to legally get out of paying it! More to follow when I go through a second time in a day or so.
If all our customers had their ducks in a row we'd never make a living. Or the cost of the crane would be higher per hr. On the jib removal how hard would it be to hang two chain fall hoists from the trusses in your shop. I'd think if your trusses are 4' on center and you hung the chain fall from a 6x6 that rested on two trusses on each end. The weight one the jib would be on 4 trusses and I'd think they would hold that. Then it would just hang up on the ceiling till you were ready. If you wanted to get fancy you could buy two electric winches.
Yes, most states are 34k for a tandem. In TN, they will let you tag cranes as "fixed load", where they allow you some extra axle weights, as apposed to a standard truck.
I have blown in insulation in the ceiling, help up by a special netting the insulation guys use, then a white vinyl covering over that to keep the airflow in. It is nice and bright, and as long as you don't mess with works great. Plus it was about the same cost for them to do it all, labor and material, as just the OSB would have been, not to mention the glass batts plus my labor. So hanging a chain fall trolley up there ain't gonna happen, those in my home shop I do have such a setup and it works great. Good tip on the "fixed load" thing, they are treating me like an over the road trucker, I'll look into that. Still waiting on those carpenters! It's odd, I am actually looking forward to going through the Port, I'm pretty sure moving the rear outrigger pads up as far as possible may do it. No matter what scenario of mechanical aid, fork lift or over head chain fall trolley, taking the jib off and on all the time would require help and still be a pain. If I had a wireless remote like my old Terex 17 ton had, it'd be a piece of cake. I already have a jib stand in the yard, but it takes me in the cab and a helper on the ground, and a some yelling back and forth etc. The only time I don't like having a sit down cab, and no full time employee! If I just blew off the work that needs my jib, it wouldn't break me, be just a minor blip, about what they want in annual charges for the over weight based on past years. Doesn't get me further, just higher.
I got my print sheet from the last time I went through the Port (you have to ask to get one, after first going through, so you go over the scales twice, next time I'll call them in advance. With all my usual crap on board, BUT with the boom run out to 40.0' instead of the usual 32.2', my rear tandems came in at, believe it or not, at 34,100 lbs! This amount of boom run is about the max that'd I'd want to consider, it doesn't look outrageous, not enough sticking out to gather any unwanted attention I'm pretty sure, pictured. I could just put my 2 rear aluminum pads on the floor of the Mack cab and get below 34,000 lbs! If I throw all my rear rack dunnage, probably at least 200 lbs. per side, up on the bed towards the front as much as possible, I could probably suck the boom in to 38' or so, maybe less. The jib is staying, I can squeak by with in on board. My next trip over the scales will be just as mentioned, should be tomorrow. I want about a 100 lb. cushion less then 34,000. Once I establish the sweet spot, I'll get on the horn to Boise and see what it's going to take to get rid of that overweight charge, that should be interesting. I will stress that I am not an interstate hauler, rather, a boom truck (I'll gladly be described as that for once) that recently permanently changed my weight distribution by shifting on board gear.True enough, I'll have print outs signed and dated by the Port cops to back it up.
Pictures: throwing that rear blocking up towards the front when going over the scales will be a pain, but will be well worth it in money saved. Again, just today I will pay out 8 bucks I'd rather buy lunch with.
Bad news- legal front overhang is 4' http://semasan.com/semaga/Idaho.pdf Good news- buy a annual: I didn't read the whole manual- it shows restrictions for route maps. I'd do some more reading. "Yellow Routes -- The yellow overweight level is based on a single axle loading of twenty-two thousand five hundred (22,500) pounds, a tandem axle loading of thirty-eight thousand (38,000) pounds, and a tridem axle loading of forty-eight thousand (48,000) pounds or the equivalent loading as determined by spacings and number of axles and computed by applying the formula W = 560 ((LN/N-1) + 12N + 36). "Overweight/Oversize (non-reducible) annual permit fee for twelve (12) consecutive months, one hundred twenty-eight dollars ($128)." http://itd.idaho.gov/dmv/poe/documents/permits.pdf Be thankful you can get a annual: Missouri is a one way, one trip permit only. Drive the same route the next day- buy another permit. One permit to drive to the job, another permit to drive home. (only for my larger cranes, overweight for length)
How difficult is it to remove the counterweight? I mean, if you've got a way to lift it, is it a lot of bolts and a pain to get to, or is it a couple bolts?
Can't remove it, 8 bolts, takes another crane and time. Threw the blocking forward. Today on my run across the scales, 33,700 lbs on the tandems, and that was with one foot lees boom sticking, I'm at 39' now. A BIG difference in how the headache ball was bouncing around, the fleet angle was much better then at 40'. It will be even better at 38'. Then, back at the yard, I took my 2 or 3 hundred lb. 15 ton load block out. Don't use it often at all, and when I do need I know in advance. It was carried towards the front but will help. Plus I took out a big timber I rarely use, another 80 lbs. Going over in the AM again, and this time I'll have the boom at 38' and see what happens. As to the overhang issue, that may be easy to get around by getting a over width permit, which I believe also covers length. I asked them once, years ago, how far can I stick out in front (I was carrying some 38' glue lam beams on my 1 ton) and they said as long as you have a permit, no limit! Or words to that effect. The annual permit fee for that is not based on miles driven anyway. I see they are $53.00 annually, just a quick search, not in the mood to study their regs right now. I'll deal with the optimum weight thing first, and deal with the length later.
That's another good idea Natman . Just simply removing rigging & ruck off the truck you don't need on a daily basis . We did that with our cranes . Removed blocks , extra chocker's , bigger shackles . Got rid of all the heavier items & store them in the shed and grab them when needed . We lost between 800 to 1,000 pounds on each rig pretty quick like that . Like putting a Grove on a crash diet to loose a few pounds & maybe gain a little a road speed LOL ! Even after the diet they still won't step on the scales for fear of breaking them . From what I understand the 1,400 pound counterweight on the National was an " add on " to gain a little chart / stability ? Now it's showing a little over weight at the scales after the addition . If all else fails wonder if mounting the counterweight to the chassis just ahead of the drive axils to help on the scale weight and still act as counterweight ?
Well, right now I have an officially approved National counter weight installed as they specify, and I really like how it improved the stability. It was OK before, not it's much better, especially in the 2:00 to 4:00 and 8:00 to 10:00 o clock position, it feels like I'm working directly over the rears, all the time. So, it's staying where and how it is. As far as losing the weight, I went so far as to take the aluminum paged official load chart "book" out of its official holder (secured with a cable, the intent by National that it stays with the crane, I cut the cable long ago as I wanted to take it out and show my customers, on the bigger jobs, where and how we could do it) that usually sits in a holder behind the operator seat in the cab, and now it's new home is in a forward bed mounted rigging box. That probably took 5 lbs of the tandems...... TODAY, (even though this job I've been doing should have been done in 4 to 6 hours, with real carpenters, this crew took 12.5 hours over 3 different days, (( 3 different travel charges)) all involving going past the Port, so I'm getting a lot of info quick) with the latest weight reductions (no 15 ton load block, and some big timbers, left in the yard) and with the boom at 38', I went across at 33,640 lbs. So it is a done deal, I can beat it, with the jib and the counterweight as is. Next time, probably Monday, I go across, I'll have the boom at 37'.
I called the state transportation department, and to my amazement, after explaining who I was and what I do (small time local crane service, not a long haul trucker carrying varying loads, who just installed a new permanent piece of equipment) and THEN when the scales revealed said piece of new equipment (counterweight) put me over, I rearranged my other equipment carried on board and got back UNDER the limit. I got all done explaining this and there was a long pause, and I started to think I had given way too much info and was about to be told I was still locked into a new weight category. BUT then the nice lady said, "oh, that won't be a problem, we'll put you back under your previous gross, and when you get your next quarterly report form for being overweight, just put zero miles on it and that well be the end of it." Wow, that was great news obviously! Plus today, since I had the crane in my home shop for the first time in 6 months (living on a mountain, I don't drive it up here often, that's why I have the place in town, but my town building is no substitute for my home shop where I have a lot more "stuff") I totally emptied out all 4 of my big rigging boxes, and realized I can lose a bunch more weight. My beam clamp will now be left in the crane shed, as will my 3 different chain bridles. The kind of jobs I will need them on, I know about in advance and can just throw them in, no need to pack them to job setting trusses on a house. My new project will be making a small jib crane (think that's the proper term, a 500 lb. or so max capacity pipe on a swivel will a short length of wide flange with a small chain fall on it.) Just something to lift my 15 ton load block, my 10' big spreader bar, and other crap I rarely use but still need from time to time. I can easily and quickly pay for this little wall mounted jib crane with the money I'll save from not paying .16 a mile, ha ha.