First off: I want to thank those in this forum. I started doing some googling of random parts or questions a few months ago and everything always pointed back to something on these forums. Once I got here I immediately got absorbed into reading some of the lengthy threads on here. I have to give some credit to Boone and Nitelite as those were two of the first threads I went through and have followed since. After reading these, I realize two things, I am in way over my head (more on that later) and I shouldn’t have given up on my old loader! These guys are amazing. Also credit to Nige and the many others all who have an extensive knowledge base! Some background: So I live in NC and we (my dad and I) have a small family farm. I have grown up around equipment (mostly tractors and typical farming/harvesting equipment). I have always loved heavy equipment but never owned any. I have been in and out of motocross since a young age. Many years back I built a small track/trail in some woods on the farm to play on with a New Holland skid steer we had on the farm. Over time, the track was growing and I was in search of a CAT track loader. I only needed it really to “play” on but used a good excuse like others of having it to clean up farm when needed etc… Now keep in mind I had no idea (and still don’t?) what to look for or what I needed. Picture of our skid steer I found what I thought at the time may be a decent deal on a CAT 951B approximately a 1968-1972 with no hour meter. I went and ran it and pushed some dirt around and it seemed like it ran good as far as I could tell. I bought it and had it hauled home. I used it fairly extensively for a few months to clean up, work on the motocross track, clear brush etc… I had a great time with it. I continued to run it intermittently every few weeks just to find things to clean up or a reason to push dirt for several years. The only real issues I had with it over the years were the muffler eventually fell off (it was after market so this wasn’t its first time off), batteries from lack of running as expected, a few leaky cylinders, and the left side track tensioner did not work. At the time, I assumed the track tensioner was far too difficult of an overhaul based on nothing. We would pump in grease and it would push it back out within 30 minutes of running. We finally made a few small shims and would pump it out and place a shim in to keep tracks from jumping as they did. The UC was shot so we were trying to buy us some time before replacement since we assumed we would buy something newer soon anyway. It did slowly leak some oil but was very minimal and I would keep it topped off every few months. I did find that if the oil got low, it would prevent the throttle from being raised. That was an interesting thought as I spent some time tracing linkages thinking something bound up, only to find adding oil was the trick. After about 5-6 years of good service when pushing one day, something let go in the right side drive train. When pushing/loaded it would pop/slip on that side but under no load on flat ground it would travel fine. I made it back from the fields to the sheds that way without problem where it then sat for about a year. Finally a friend came along and offered to buy it and I sold it. We jumped it and backed it on trailer. He did get it fixed and last I heard it’s still running today. (After seeing Nitelite’s post, kinda wish I had kept it as a tinker project as this forum has started to give me more motivation that major overhauls are possible…. By those more skilled than I lol) Picture of the 951c right before selling Another 951c doing some work I went a few years without a large loader as we still had the skid steer and a tractor with loader on front that does the day to day jobs around the farm just fine (when dry). Over time seeing equipment on the side of the road and at construction sites, I slowly got the urge and started looking casually online to watch prices again. For whatever reason (this brings back the over my head part), I told myself I needed a 953 or 963 this time and wanted LGP. I kept my eye out and found again what I thought was a good deal. Now after much reading on this since then, I realize I was somewhat foolish and had no idea the things that should be looked at when buying one as was pointed out when later reading ippielb’s thread and all the things he tested and you all suggested. In either case, I am now the owner of a 1997 953c. It has high hours on it ~13k and a brand new tracks, chains, rollers, sprockets. I will say that it has ran great thus far. It hasn’t leaked any oil and I have kept an eye underneath and in/around engine compartment and see none. None of the cylinders leak and it starts right up. I do have many questions given this one is much more complex than my last one which I will address in later posts. I must say the power, hydraulics/lifting, and steering are so much smoother and nicer than my last. The 953c coming in on the delivery truck! 953c running that night I will follow with some more pictures of it working as well as questions I have.
Welcome to the forums Pinhead. Sounds like you have a case of yellow fever just like many of us on here. Jealous of the 953. Sounds like you have a solid machine there. Is the motocross track just for your own pleasure or do you run a business with it?
More of it doing work Boone, The track is just for personal pleasure (if you call it that from too many broken bones...). Here a few pics cleaning up around it when I got it, digging up some stumps just of of curiosity to see what kind of power it had compared. That large stump caused it to get light on the back end when carrying it.
Now that is a machine! Take good care of it. I think that is he key to owning a machine.
Nice setup you have there. Did you buy the machine local and were you able to try it out before you bought it? That's a lot of hours, but sounds like they took good care of it. I'm amazed these engines will last that long.
yeah I hope to take care of it, if I can afford to.... That is the "in over my head part" as I didn't really realize how hydraulic these where until after purchase and then started reading up unfortunately. I did not see it before buying it, I bought it from a place up in PA. I got prob close to 100 pictures and a few videos of it running and operating. Again, that's the looking back part I may have done more, although I have now had it and ran it, I definitely would have still bought it at that time as I've had it for a few months now and its been great and found nothing or had any indications to anything i didn't already know. I do have some "Serv Code" showing up on the dash now and did some googling and found some posts by Nige, all mine showed up at same time so most suggestions point to a wiring harness. I have looked around and haven't seen anything loose yet. It was running fine, I shut it down. 2 weeks later I come back from vacation and fire it up and they are there. I shut it right back down not wanting to run it until I find out what they are. There are no leaks I can see, still sounds fine, and still moved (didn't try far yet). Yesterday I actually got CAT to send me service records which actually was fairly detailed. It has had lots of things replaced, all by CAT. The engine was replaced with full new CAT engine @ just over 5k hours (not reman). It has new drive motor as of about 11k hours, has had several other new or reman parts and pretty good records which made me feel better about it
For those with access to code books: 096f03 (this is one of two that SERV CODE stays on screen for, does that mean the rest are older logged codes and this is only active?) 030 (this is two of two that serv code is on, but it comes up again later not with serv code on) 248f02 600f08 819f02 821f04 079 133f03 299f13 469f03 472f03 Anyone know what these are?
Yep, if serv code shows then it is an active fault. All others are logged. 030 is called the MID (module identifier) and ties in with 096 which is the CID (component identifier) in this case your fuel level sender and 03 if the FMI (failure mode indicator) which means voltage above normal. You've either got a faulty fuel level sender or a wiring problem with it. Nothing to worry about or stop you from working.
Ah fantastic! I was certainly hoping only the one showing Serv Code was "active" and the rest were logged. Can these that aren't active be cleared as I have seen some mention of a click box, some have it built in, others needed to buy said click box. I knew the fuel gauge wasn't working and fuel light blinking since the day I got it, no matter full, 1/2, near empty. Interesting that it just decided to show up on codes though. I did go in and clean all dust/dirt away from connections, the gauge itself "seems" fine as it goes through the tests when starting and moves. I have seen it 2-3 times move up to just over 1/4 tank and light go out for maybe a few minutes, then right back to empty on gauge and blinking even though always over 1/2 tank. I have just checked it each time its ran and if anywhere near 1/2, just fill it back up for now. I think I need a new sensor but wasn't sure how involved that would be vs just living with it for now. Cmark, definitely thanks for the info on the codes!! much appreciated!
Unplug the sender and short the two wires together at the harness plug. If the fault code goes away then your sender has probably failed. You can buy a repair kit for the sender. Just need your serial number to confirm the part number. Apologies if you've already posted it somewhere before. Here's a cut n paste of the full procedure; Test Step 1. CHECK THE MAIN DISPLAY MODULE AND THE HARNESS Turn the disconnect switch and the key start switch to the ON position. The diagnostic code indicator should show "SERV CODE" for the diagnostic code. Disconnect the machine harness from the sender that is causing the diagnostic code. Connect the signal wire 447-PK to the ground wire 201-BK on the machine harness connector. Observe the diagnostic code indicator. Expected Result: The diagnostic code indicator remains ON. Results: YES - The diagnostic code indicator remains ON. The harness wiring or the main display module has failed. Proceed to test step 2. NO - The diagnostic code indicator turns OFF. The sender has failed. Repair: Replace the sender. STOP Test Step 2. CHECK FOR AN OPEN GROUND Remove the jumper wire between the signal wire 447-PK and the ground wire 201-BK. Turn the disconnect switch and the key start switch to the OFF position. Measure the resistance between frame ground and the ground wire for the sender. Expected Result: The resistance is 5 ohms or less. Results: YES - The resistance is 5 ohms or less. Proceed to test step 3. NO - The resistance is greater than 5 ohms. The ground wire for the harness is open. Repair: Repair the ground wire or replace the ground wire for the sender. STOP Test Step 3. CHECK THE SIGNAL WIRE FOR THE SENDER Turn the disconnect switch and the key start switch to the ON position. Measure the voltage between the frame ground and the signal wire for the sender. Expected Result: The voltage measurement should be within one of the following specifications. Results: 6.0 ± 0.5 DCV - The voltage is 6.0 ± 0.5 DCV. The voltage is correct. Verify that the diagnostic code is still present. Repair: Display module failure is uncommon. Perform this procedure again. Also, recheck if the diagnostic code indicator is illuminated for this diagnostic code. If the cause of the diagnostic code is not found, replacement of the main display module may be needed. Prior to replacing an ECM, contact the Technical Communicator at your dealership for possible consultation with Caterpillar. This consultation may greatly reduce repair time and expense. If the display module requires replacement, see Testing and Adjusting, "Module - Replace". STOP LESS THAN 0.5 DCV - The voltage is less than 0.5 DCV. The harness wiring has failed. There is an open circuit or a short to ground in the signal wire for the sender. Repair: Repair the harness or replace the harness. Perform this procedure again. Also, recheck if the diagnostic code indicator is illuminated for this diagnostic code. Display module failure is uncommon. If the cause of the diagnostic code is not found, replacement of the main display module may be needed. Prior to replacing an ECM, contact the Technical Communicator at your dealership for possible consultation with Caterpillar. This consultation may greatly reduce repair time and expense. If the display module requires replacement, see Testing and Adjusting, "Module - Replace". STOP NOT 6.0 BUT ABOVE 0.5 DCV - The voltage is less than 0.5 DCV. The harness wiring has failed. There is an open circuit or a short to ground in the signal wire for the sender. Repair: Repair the harness or replace the harness. Perform this procedure again. Also, recheck if the diagnostic code indicator is illuminated for this diagnostic code. Display module failure is uncommon. If the cause of the diagnostic code is not found, replacement of the main display module may be needed. Prior to replacing an ECM, contact the Technical Communicator at your dealership for possible consultation with Caterpillar. This consultation may greatly reduce repair time and expense. If the display module requires replacement, see Testing and Adjusting, "Module - Replace". STOP
All the Diagnostic Codes that you have that are Logged - the SERV CODE light is not illuminated in other words - can be cleared quite easily. You don't necessarily need a Click Box to do this but it helps. Actually on your 953C you should have a built-in set of switches behind a panel under the right hand armrest. The ones you need for clearing codes are the two on the left. If you want to drop me a PM with your email address I'll send you a copy of the section from the manual that covers this procedure.
Nige/Cmark, Thanks for the info. I didn't realize I didn't put the SN int he earlier post. The serial number is 2ZN01325. They are calling on rain all weekend here so that may actually help me and give some time to work on this and dig into it. Appreciate all the help for the newbie here. I do have a few other questions of some things I am looking at inside engine compartment just so I know what they are or if something is good/bad. I'll try to get those all typed up here shortly but need to crop some images and highlight the areas to type it up. -PH
There are 2 options for 953C, 2ZN & BBX. Also machines below 2ZN01750 are different to those above that number. It's good to know that if you're ever needing information.
error codes & mystery line So with the rainy weather today I removed the cover around the top of the tank and found the plug at top. Once this was done i disconnected and shorted the two, the fuel gauge went to full and the Serv Code went off so based on the steps sent by CMark and Nige its the sender. Anyone have part number handy so I can look around online for one and/or call CAT for pricing next week? Aside from that while looking around in engine compartment, I noticed a small diameter metal tube from top of engine going to a gold connector that has nothing coming out other end. the connector feels rough on other end, any ideas on what this is or its importance?
The latest part number for the repair kit is 376-1547. This looks like it has an update to a Deutsch DT socket on the end of the wire. You will either have to buy a Deutsch DT 2 pin plug and fit it to the end of your harness or cut the socket from the new sensor and solder the socket from your old sensor to it. If you decide to buy a DT plug, your Cat dealer will have them. Probably easier from your point of view to use the cut, solder and heat shrink method because to reliably fit the Deutsch connectors you need a special crimp tool. The mystery tube is for the ether start aid. If you don't need ether for your ambient temperature, remove it and plug the hole where it goes into the manifold.
So this past weekend I was out working on the loader looking at the fuel sender unit some more after my initial troubleshooting. When I originally had looked at it I found out that it was the sender based on the troubleshooting advice above. While I was working on it I was cleaning off more around the top of the sender unit to get a better idea of what’s involved for the replacement down the road, I found that there was a manual gauge on top of the tank it looked to be accurate to the current fuel level. I was able to stick my arm inside of the tank and move the float and the gauge actually would move correctly. See below where lifting to see it go full. better picture Although the gauge moved to correctly it still had no effect on the gauge or flashing fuel light inside of the cab. At this point I wanted to start double checking the wires to make sure that it wasn’t a connectivity issue that I missed so I re-shorted the plug and the gauge in the cab went to full as expected. So I started looking at the wires come out of the top of the sender unit and the entire gauge came off of the top which either one means 1) I broke it or 2) that shows what the original problem was (I assume something from the manual gauge was making it to the wires as once I looked at it apart, the metallic pieces were dull and may not have been making contact. Does anyone know if the sender unit is the entire part including what goes in the tank or how much of the pieces included. I look for the part online and could not find any pictures by googling the part number. I found a piece on the CAT website but had no details other than price of ~$100 Aside from working on the sender unit I continued to poke around the loader since it was raining and nothing else to do and made my way to the hatch on the front of the dozer that has the hydraulic system behind it. I could see it was low on hydraulic fluid although the hydraulic check on right side under operator door showed fine. Does anyone have any information on what specific hydraulic fluid should be used in this situation. I have looked around online for some owners manuals I have only been able to find some but seemed to be for newer models than mine (2004 and up vs mine being 97, most things didn’t have years on them). I would like to try to find something that would tell me the capacities and types of all consumables/liquids in the machine so that I work to replace them and know I am using the right thing. For example is it OK to use Rotella for engine oil or do I need a special CAT oil as I saw mentioned another post about certain additives needed in the different oils. I have lots of motor oil and hydraulic oil for my other equipment but didn't want to use until asked since I still have lots to learn as I am finding out. As always, thanks for everyone’s help!
The complete fuel gauge & sender unit is an assembly (no serviceable parts) so if yours has come apart it's probably goofed. The Part Number is 118-0691 and it retails from Cat at $312. The gasket under it is 3E-5393 and costs $7. The sight glass at the front of the machine is for the hydraulic system. The recommended oil is SAE10W hydraulic. Capacity is approx. 27.5 gallons. The dipstick behind the door on the RH side under the cab is for the pump drive gearbox. The recommended oil is SAE10W30 engine oil that meets API CG-4 specification. Capacity is approx. 1.0 gallon. Engine oil for the ambient temperature range 0-100 DegF is API SAE10W30 that meets API CG-4. Capacity approx. 5.5 gallons. For an Operation & Maintenance Manual look for either of Cat Publications SEBU6935 or SEBU7115 on the usual internet sales sites. Either one of them will suit your machine.
The sender works by rotating a magnet under the little dial which makes the needle turn and varies the resistance in the circuit. The repair kit basically gives you the external dial assembly. Try to undo the two phillips screws holding the dial in. If you can get them out OK then buy the repair kit.
CM, have you got a Part Number for a Repair Kit for 118-0691..? All I can find is 139-8661/317-9185/376-1547 but all that kit contains is replacement parts for the Sure-Seal electrical connector.
I'm hearing you. In TMI 376-1547 does indeed appear to contain just the connector but I am sure you receive the dial assembly. And it costs $100. More than the connector is worth.
Good point. I never looked at the price....... also it seems weird to offer a specific kit for an individual connector when Sure-Seal connector kits to service all sizes of connector are available. It won't be the first time the consist in TMI has been wrong either.
Undercarriage notes... So I had CAT come out today to do the free undercarriage assessment. Luckily as I hoped and expected everything is great and I have the wear report with most items being 0-15% wear only. The idlers are only things with more wear as he said they were around 30-40% worn and didn't look to have been replaced at time of newer parts but fine as is. I knew it looked good and could tell it was new chains/pads, but wasn't sure about the rollers/idlers/etc... and since they offered assessment I figured why not. Turns out its an after market undercarriage which I didn't realize until he pointed out the part numbers and markings on rollers (VTrack). Given how little I will run it in comparison to typical contractor use it should last me quite some time (only about ~20 hours since April so far). I am missing a lower guard on the right rear and will be about $500 for it so I will look into that a little more this weekend. He was able to quote the Sender Unit as mentioned above and was the part number referenced by CMark. I will clean around it more this weekend and make sure it looks like that is all needed for it. It also has a cracked windshield which was quoted for $500-600. Its not bothering me to much at the moment so not sure if I want to worry with it until it falls out.
more todos Another aside, I did notice today when I started to throttle up I saw a puff of smoke come out back grill so i opened cover and had my dad watch, there is some slight exhaust come out around the seal where the exhaust goes out the top of the engine compartment and connects to muffler bolted on top which will need to be added to the to do list. I have another pondering question. There is a black tank behind fuse box with a hose coming out, the host has been cut off and left dangling. There is another hose cut the same way on back of engine compartment near back glass. I "think" this may somehow be related to the AC unit that it not longer has? Anyone know for sure? Also since i have this picture posted, to the left of fuse box, what was supposed to be mounted there, other end of start assist/ether?
Was your replacement windshield quote from Cat or from a glass company..? I would expect an automotive glass company to be able to install a replacement laminated windshield for well less than $600. The genuine Cat windshield glass is just over $600, not installed obviously, but IMHO that would be a waste of your money. The black tank is the accumulator for the air-conditioner system. Depending on how much the previous owner removed of that system it might not be too hard to get it working again. The large "hose clip" and other gubbins directly under the ROPS mount on the left of your photo is for the ether bottle for the cold start aid system.
I'm not to worried about the AC at he moment in either case, I just wanted to make sure that's what it was so thanks for the feedback. The glass is by a third party through CAT but includes travel and installation. I may try to call someone myself for comparison but as with the other stuff, not as much of priority as other maintenance first. My next major is ideally trying to do a full service of fluids/filters since I don't know how many hours since their last change. I gotta work on getting to all the drain plugs next. i have found some segments of service manuals sporadically online (most look like Cat tech training b/c they all discuss changes in X model from the last one). Much easier on all the tractors where its all out in open!! I'll post findings as i take fuel sender further apart and possibly try to find drain plugs and maybe even drop belly pan if i feel up to it since nothing but rain forecasted and can't do anything else.
So took the access hatch off under the belly and not as much dirt as I expected, Good to know that part should be painless when I get the oil and filters. Wasn't brave enough to tackle full belly pan yet as I need to get the right stuff to make sure its held up properly before I start that. Regarding changing, do you all recommend full CAT oil and CAT filters or is it ok to get it elsewhere if available, and if elsewhere, where (Napa, Tractor supply, etc..)? My second questions is on the hydraulic fluid, I know its low from front sight glass, should I still drain and replace all since I don't know the last service date/hours even though hydraulic doesn't get changed as often as others?
I would go with good branded oils from a major oil company (Shell, Texaco, Conoco, etc) and Cat filters if it was mine. Always ask at the Cat dealer to see if they have any promotions on oil just in case you can pick Cat oil up for less than the competition. As you've no idea when the hydraulic oil was last changed I'd change it also just to give myself a known baseline to work from.
Fuel Sensor - check So I went out today and put in the fuel sender unit that came in. It was the part number per CMark and worked like a champ. Thanks CM & Nige for advice, no ServCodes active. I still have to go through and clear the codes in the history but didn't get to that today. While there in prep for the fluid/filter change, I found the engine oil drain last weekend without problems so I decided to open the Hydraulic oil panel. Here is upper panel. Upon opening lower panel it was full of junk as expected. After much digging and scraping around, I was able to see what I was working with. Now that I can see around, the manual says find the drain hose, I assume the 1-1.5" hose that goes to nothing may be this hose? It goes back around to the right but I can find no "drain valve" as the maintenance manual suggests. I did find a bolt just to the left of where the hose enters the housing, is this the drain valve? Its somewhat obscure and will be hard to reach with any wrench. Anyone know for sure or am I dunce and missing something obvious? thoughts?
That should be the drain valve. Looks like an easy reach for a socket with universal and a long extension on the ratchet. Guessing a 3/4 or 7/8.
I believe a 9/16 socket fits the drain valve. I had to drain one a couple months ago, it was 9/16, if I remember correctly.
I was going by the sizes used on the 980G/988H loader engine oil pans. Now that I think of it the engine oil pan on the D6C we had at work this spring did have 9/16 hex head on the drain plug.
Nice, thanks for the confirmation. I am getting quotes on a few different places for Hyd Oil. Cat oil is ~$84 for 5 gallon. I have gotten quotes for $ 35 for Dilmar brand and DYNATRANS for $68 from local suppliers per 5 Gallons. Still waiting on quotes from local Shell distributor.
You don't need to go for Cat oil if the machine is only going to work for a limited amount of hours every month. All you need to do is stick with a a product from a good brand like Shell, Conoco, Exxon, etc, and stay away from the kind of stuff you'd buy at Joe Blow's Gas & Groceries ...... You can use an SAE10W (AW32) hydraulic oil or you can use an SAE10W oil that meets Cat TO-4 specification. You don't need the TO-4 properties for a hydraulic system but they won't hurt it either. Sometimes TO-4 might be cheaper.
updates So first off, this post is delayed from a few weeks back, had some spare time one eve so I slapped on some new stickers I had made. Before: After:
track updates So here are some random pictures from working this past weekend around on the motocross track. The first was rebuilding a previous jump but making it lower and stretched out and tracking it back in. The next is a random shot of it in the trees as i was moving dirt around towards a new turn/section And here is the turn after I got the dirt there. I did use the wheel skid steer to pack it in and final shape it
So in reviewing the CAT proposal for fluids/filters since I'll be in area next week, I noticed under capacities for Hydraulic they have Trans 27.5, Hyd Tank 17.2. Earlier in the thread it was just said 27.5. is there a dipstick and fill/drain I am missing other than the one on the front right just behind the bucket beside fuel tank? Also another note, thoughts on changing splitter box oil and final drive as it was listed on their quote.
They have made a mistake. The complete transmission & hydraulic system oil capacity is 27.2 gallons, of which the tank itself holds 17.2 gallons. To do an oil change service will require around 17.2 gallons of oil although this is only an approximation and the oil should always be topped off to the dipstick/sight gauge on the tank however much oil it requires. Splitter box oil is only 1 gallon, final drives are 4 gallons each. The extra labour involved to change these oils if you have already paid for the tech's mileage is minimal. One thought, you need the machine up to operating temperature when the oil changes are done so that they have best effect. So have it well warmed up before the tech gets there.
I was going to do it myself, not the tech but just making sure I understand everything first and didn't miss something. Good to know on operating temperatures. Thanks on the qty as well as that saves from having to buy quite as much up front. Speaking of temps, last time i was running, i noticed the top right gauge never really moved. It moves when starting the machine and all the gauges go through the full motion. This was probably after about 101-5 minutes of running. I haven't done any heavy load running in some time, just small stuff but wasn't sure what temp it may get to if it even works.
That top RH gauge is power train temperature. You'll need the machine runnng for probably an hour and working hard for at least half of that before you get a sensible reading on that particular gauge. The fact it does the full sweep and settles back to the left after you power up shows the that gauge is working.
Top right gauge is the transmission temp gauge so if only running for 10-15 minutes doing little work I would not expect it to move very much. Put it to work for about an hour doing real work and then it will probably move up some. Seems there used to be a diagram in some manuals that showed what actual temps each of those marks on the gauges related to, if you knew that and had a infer red thermometer you could check that way.
some nice looking rigs you have there
thanks! it works well and really does the job. Its been so wet lately haven't been able to do much. Did a little last week but just ended up creating more work for myself to clean out the tracks now.