I bought a case 1835c skid steer and someone put a 46hp perkins diesel motor in it. Originally case (from what I gather on the website) they came with a 3 cylinder diesel and this perkins is a 4 cylinder. I bought this skid steer off of an estate so it's not like I can ask the guy the history of the motor since he is dead. I am having problems and need to make sure things are hooked up correctly so I'd like to get an online manual or at least see what is suppose to go in the threaded hole on the injector pump. The motor has this on the tags . KF70261J and 752173B __________________
Maybe a seance might help depending on which direction he headed
lol
Perkins were used in Massey Ferguson tractors and Hyster forklifts as well as a host of other applications. Should be able to find info on it online.
Alright thanks for the info, I am still searching but no luck.
If you can send some pics of the items you want to know about, maybe someone here can recognise what you need.
I think it may be an older 404d-15 400 series which is the closest thing I can find judging by pictures. I have a threaded hole coming from the injector pump, it looks like maybe it is for an electric fuel pump to go in that location. I will get pics for you guys as this is my first equipment purchase.
It would be unusual if it had an electric lift pump. All Perkins I have worked on have a diaphram lift pump that works off of the engine camshaft.
A GEHL 4610 uses a 46hp 4cyl perkins.
See if you can find some number like this on it, they will probably be cast into the black. 404D-22
I will look tomorrow and take some pictures of the motor, I need to get this thing straighten out so I can make some money with it!
Not sure how old your motor is ,or how long perkins has been doing this, but alot of their motors have an electric shut off solenoid that screws into the injector pump
I bet that its! if that's it, would it hurt to cap it off ??? Regards pics will be posted today.
I dont think it would hurt anything, as long as you can start and stop the engine some other way.
Thats what the choke is for.
I would think putting a fuel shutoff ahead of the IP would be hard on it. But then again diesel are shut off by stopping the fuel. I dont know much about the inside of a injection pump. Is it a good idea to choke out a diesel?
Here is the pic guys, I have more if you need them.
anyone?
Wish I could help Static Design, I've worked on a lot of Perkins, just not the 400 series. It looks like a Zexel injection system, but the hole is hard for me to tell what it's function is. If I take a guess, I'd guess a shutdown solenoid. Do you have an injection pump shop in your area? They should be able to tell you what goes there.
No I don't have any shop around locally, I do have a case dealer that is 45 miles away thats about it. Here are some more pictures, maybe they will help.
Maybe get the number off the pump and call up some IP shop. Alot of different engines will use the same pump. The shop will probably have a breakdown of the pump.
Ok, then stick with us here, we'll see if we can figure this out. First, a Case dealer won't do you much good, they don't use Perkins engines. That does look like a 400 series Perkins, I just haven't worked on many of them. In the very first pic you posted, I see what looks like a "choke cable". What does that go to?
You will have to excuse my ignorance as I don't know this machine up and down yet, I just purchased it. I don't have a clue really, I will have to go look at it and see. Are you talking about the cable with the clamp fastened to the injector block?
Yep, I have a feeling that goes to a manual shutdown for the injection pump. And I think the hole would be for an electric shutdown solenoid, can't say that for sure though. Can you get some numbers for us? I see a Perkins plate in one pic, and stamped numbers as well. I might be able to get some info on this engine on Tuesday if I have some numbers to work with as Michaeljp86 suggested.
How do I verify it is that? and not just a regular choke? Those number on the tag is what is already posted which is KF70261J and 752173B. I will get some brakes parts cleaner try to find a stamp. Where are they normally located?
http://www.glacierbay.com/support/library_docs/downloads/perkins/Perkins_Users_Handbook_400.pdf looks like the hole is used with a electric shutdown.
http://www.sertec.com.py/telergia/telergia/informaciones/series_400.html Looks like its a fuel control solenoid.
So do you think it would be alright just to plug it off?
Calm down bro, you don't need to verify anything, a diesel doesn't use a choke. Besides, I think Michaeljp86 is on to something. Nice work dude! :notworthy The pic isn't all that clear, but I think you found what we are looking for. The 400 series appears to have a manual shut down, which I think is what the control cable is going to in the first pic that Static Design posted, as well as an electric solenoid shutdown (at rear of pump). In his case, the solenoid is missing. What to do? Purchase a new solenoid and wire it up. Or, plug the hole for the electric solenoid and use the manual shut down to kill the motor. It's your choice Static Design, which way do you want to kill the motor. In one case, you simply plug the hole and use the control cable to kill it. In the other case, you have to purchase a shutdown solenoid, then figure out how to wire it in. That's the way I see it anyway.
Im calm, I promise! I just want to know what I am looking for and why. That way when I post up and you ask the next question I already know the answer and don't have to drive back and forth to the shop for details. I will just plug it off, it doesn't hurt me to push a lever in plus a plug will only be a $1.30 fix. I just wanted to make sure or get a second opinion before doing anything I wasn't sure of, I have never owned nor worked on a diesel so it's all new to me.
Your doing alright. I'm tryin' to noodle through this one myself as I haven't done one of these. My guess is; the engine won't run, or, will run, but has fuel rolling out that hole when you crank the engine, eh?
It will run, it does great actually. It's a pain to get it started once it sits for awhile but once it does it works great other then fuel spraying out that hole and causing it smoke once it hits the hot block.
Wow, that's interesting. I would think that if the hole was for an electric shutdown solenoid that the engine would have difficulty running with the hole open, but I've seen stranger things. The diagram that Michaeljp86 posted shows the engine could use either a manual shutdown or electric. It's not real clear in the pic of the diagram, but the lines point to the area of the hole. I'm just thinking the hole is for a shutdown solenoid and you could just plug the hole, then use the manual shutdown to kill the engine. The manual shutdown would be a short lever on top of the injection pump. It's possible that the control cable, that's held by a clamp in one of your pics, is connected to the manual shutdown. I want to say plug the hole and see what it does, but I can't say that with all certainty. I could probably get a little more info tomorrow when the shops open back up. Meanwhile, maybe someone can find a better pic on the internet as to what is actually there.
There's one thing I noticed in post #23 that I'm not crazy about. In the pic, it looks like a piece of flex hose going from air cleaner housing to the engine intake manifold. The hose is connected to the air cleaner with...tape??? And I'm not that fond of that type of hose for intake. It tears easily, and once torn, rapid engine destruction follows. I would prefer seeing a hose similar to the one in the link below, and secured with clamps. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009XXR2Q
Static, you said you ran the engine, how did you shut it down? If it has a lever or know to pull in the cab to shut it down then I would just plug the hole. My tractor had a small lever under the dash. The solenoid you would wire up to the key switch so it would just shut down like a car. The starting problem is probably from air getting into the fuel system through this hole. Once its plugged that should fix the problem.
The hole is definitely for the electric shut-off solenoid. It isn't fuel that sprays out of the hole, it's engine oil. The Zexel pump is a self contained cartridge unit operated by a separate camshaft, fed from the engine oil supply, so don't run with the hole open. The solenoid, when fitted, uses power from the key switch to pull the plunger in (I'mm pretty sure it's this way) and when you key off, it loses power and the plunger springs out, shutting off the rack. Dead easy to wire in. Alternately you can plug the hole and set the throttle to shut off.
I went and got schedule 40 plug going to throw it in and see if it will start any better and keep the oil from spraying out of the injector pump. I am also have issues with the battery staying charged. I am going to pull the alternator and go get it tested along with the battery. The skid steer has a few thorns in its side but I believe after winter it should be a good skid steer when I am finish. What water temps do these usually operate at?
90 - 90 centigrade - don't know what that is in American - it's worth checking the thermostat, and if you have any doubts, fit a new one. These little buggers don't like being cooked, the head gasket is a bit fragile. Check round the head joint for leaks. Also keep the oil up to the top mark, there's nearly three pints from the top to bottom mark on some dipsticks in these engines, and if the oil gets low you stand more risk of wrecking your turbo, especially in winter, as they can be a bit slow building oil pressure first thing. If you have severe winters, do an oil change before the cold sets in. On these engines, when the oil is to the top mark, it is actually above the sump joint, so you need to make sure there's no leaks at the joint.
In American...that's funny! 90 C = 194 F
Most diesels have a 180 deg thermostat.
Thanks for the info. If I provide a vin is there a way of tracking what year this skid steer is? or is the year hidden some where in the vin number? I am not exactly sure of the year as the guy who sold it told me it was a 94 or 95 but I believe it's a 90 model.
did you get the plug in and try it out?
No I haven't yet, I am covered up and havent had time to go even look at it. I'll try to fool with it this weekend.
Just checked, thermostat opens at 82 Centigrade. They do run warmer than that, though.
Yeah dude - that is funny.... We don't interpret that because we use the ENGLISH system here. The irony of your post kills me.:tong
Glad you enjoyed it. By the way, Doctor Daniel Fahrenheit was German. That's what I call irony.
Amen bro...it's a messed up world ain't it!
Ain't that the truth, Reverend?
Well - can't really go with you there. I mean what DIDN'T a German invent?? (of any technological consequence?):drinkup
A German invented the wheel??? Cool !