Hey guys, just wanted to share my current project for my 1st dump truck hoping to get opinions and ideas as i'm pretty green to the trucking side. It's a 97' Pete, 550 cat, hendrickson walking beam suspension, 46K rears, 4:11's, 18 speed. Only concern I've had is it isn't double framed from the front to the back, the truck just has a frame insert almost from cab to over the rears. My plans are to make this a tri-axle dump. It will be primarily for my use in excavation and moving my equipment. I've had other owner operators tell me that it should be fine. I'm already into the conversion, but I always appreciate any advice i can get, Thanks!
I'm not an expert but I think I recall that the double frame stopping at the cab causes issues by tending to cause failures there. Someone else more knowledgeable should chime in here. Looks like a nice truck though!
Located an older ox body that was pretty beat up, and tweaked just a little bit. I'm a welder by trade, so i decided to refurbish the body with new material. Just because I am a welder doesn't mean I'm a pro at rebuilding these things though, haha. I acquired some help thru a great friend and retired fitter/fabricator. I'm sure there is probably easier or better ways to do the job, but we used what we had. We started out blowing out the sheet metal squares with a torch, it just seemed this best way to go about the demo, although an arc gouge would've been really nice. I just decided to go back with the same thickness and used my mig suitcase running carbon mig hardwire.
I know I'm leaving out a lot of detailed pictures, but it was really hot when this project started, and it raining off and on, so i didn't have much time to get great pictures. Both side walls are in at this point, tacked and ready to weld.. We decided to make life a lot easier and just leave 1" overlap for the front when we demoed it, that way we didn't have to fight it, just put a seal weld on the inside and a stitch weld on the outside. We tack welded two small clips at the bottom for the new sheet to rest on while we made the final fit. Both side walls are cutout and new material is tacked in and ready to weld at this point.
Now It's time to start on the floor which was probably the most time consuming part. Once we got all of the old floor demoed, i had a local sheet metal shop cut out my floor with the dimensions i gave them, i drove down with my body on the gooseneck and they lowered the bottom in with there overhead crane and it fit like a glove...... for the most part, haha. Had some buttering up to do on the big gaps, but overall it wasn't too bad.
thanks man! I appreciate the tip!
Now we that we've got it all welded out we started to work on the fit up to mount the body on the truck. We had to extend the frame a short amount already, so when I decided to go with just a hinge plate coped in the frame of the truck, we figured that it would help to continue the frame insert all the way out for extra strength.
First thing I would do right off the bat is move the spring cans to the front driver. Worked on too many road tractor/dump truck conversions that did not and as far as erosive wear those damn thing get dangerous thin in short order.
I would have spring cans on both axles. OX bodies are good bodies, around here double frames rust bad I bought a truck intentionally single frame. 4.10 is a nice ratio with an 18 speed.
I would not worry too much about the frame, It should have 3/8" main rail. It will work fine with 12 yard loads not 14. Your fab work looks ok. Truck Shop
Thanks man! I appreciate it!
The ox body I have is a 21 yard body at water level I believe. I doubt I’ll ever load it that full, but I’d like to be able to carry the most I legally could. What’s your opinion on adding a pusher axle? Too hard for a single frame maybe ? Thanks again
Thanks man, I hope it will handle more more than that. The body I bought was at scrap price basically, that’s why I didn’t mind having one so big. It came off an older Tri-Axle set up.
Only way I would have spring cans on both axles would be to invert the rears, have them point Down, seen all too many limp to the shop or need road call as the can exploded from load dumping erosion. Who knows WHERE the after end wound up. With the frame and set up I would not b challenging 14 yards, with rock figure 2200#/yard a little over a ton dry for inch minus would be 15 ton ON the truck, add water and it raises pretty quick, sand is the nasty where a yard wet can go 2800/yard to 3200 yard. Can overload yourself pretty easy if do not have a drop pusher and that box. Local dump truck service we use regularly deliver 20-25t to customers within 20 miles, he has twin drop down pushers under his truck only lifts them to access farm roads or commercial yards where has to maneuver tight.
I agree, wouldn’t take much at all to overload with this size body. Do you think it would be too much stress on the frame to add a 20k drop axle?
My old Ford has an 18 yard bed with no tag axles. I've grossed 70,000 on ten tires many times. It does have 44 rears and 16 front axle, that makes a big difference in capacity and braking. I've driven lighter trucks with 40 rears/12 front, and they won't stop anywhere near like a heavy spec. truck. If you don't have heavy spec. axles, you probably need the drop axle to hold the weight and to add to your braking ability. If you're on the road all the time, the tag axle is great, it will be a pain off road. If you operate off road they will drag, take weight off the drive axles, and you're stuck. Just my .02. That is a nice Pete by the way. And I like the bed work, looks like you're doing a good job.
Thanks JDirt! Always helps to have someone who’s been there before. I made a few phone calls today asking around about the drop axle, Warren dump bodies says they install them on single frame trucks all the time and don’t see any issues, but they still had to tell me that it does add a lot of stress to the frame. The truck will be mainly used for hauling gravel and occasionally onsite work. Looking into hauling asphalt as well with it.
Finally got it mounted on there, still have a few mods to do get it just right before blast and painting. What color you think I should paint guys, red or black???
I vote black. States have different weight regulations when it comes to straight trucks, in our area for instance trucks in Massachusetts running 1200x24 rubber on 58 rears and 20 fronts can gross around 80k on a 10 wheeler, in nh we wouldnt get away with that without a tag axle. And that truck in mass will be a Mack 300 hp 6speed
Unless comparing Wedge to S-cam three axles brakes is three axle brakes. 16.5x7 is the same truck to truck and the steers are on average 16.5x5 so the comment it stops better is not relevant. Been involved with overloaded trucks a long time, over 25 years as a wrench fixing that which an overload destroyed. If you have double frame and Hendrickson the chassis will take the weight, a partial double frame will show the sag in short time if run it heavy enough often enough. Have known guys with 6 yard single axles add three to four foot side boards to haul more, did not help the truck any at all. With the tanks in the way will be tough to add a pusher of any type, but is your truck do as you wish.
You are doing a good job take care of the details and the truck will take care of you even if it is not a Mack.
Black bed for sure. Will look good even when you have worn the paint off the corners.
Yea, I should’ve mentioned that I was dropping those tanks. Picked up a smaller tank for the passenger side that will fit.
Thankyou sir! I appreciate the advice. I wanted a Mack myself, but never could come across a good deal On one.
. Looking like it’s leaning closer to black!
Black will hide any rust that bleeds through. Any red won't match the truck, and won't fade the same, so I wouldn't do that, it will be mismatched. I'm all for heavy spec and heavy rears on a dump truck, the hendrickson walking beam won't ride the best, but its durable. I guess I'm with Dmiller on the braking thing though, brake shoes and drums are shoes and drums, 44k and 40's use mostly the same size brakes. So it won't stop any different. It will handle a load better, and feel less "squirrelly" (and maybe that's what you're talking about with stopping, heavy spec doesn't wallow around as bad), but it won't stop any faster. Good to dump the big fuel tanks too. No reason to haul all that fuel around. I was going to suggest the tank removal but you're already there. It would be easy to overload with that big tall sided box. The truck is pretty nice- what were they using it for before you got it? Pretty rare to see walking beam with big cat and 18 speed day cab. Vocational use sees some walking beam, but they usually aren't big power and 18 speed. Special ordered for something?
Yes sir, you hit the nail on the head! Belonged to a logger who had it special ordered. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this project, along with everyone else.. Means a lot when all of y’all take the time to give some insight on this!
How come nobody mentioned the 12k steer? Talking about brakes and pushers but a 12k steer and pizza cutter tires? Get some 385 floats and add some springs and blocks to get the front workable. You'll understand the first time its soft. When you get some money ahead or the spindles finally break off get a 18-20k front and be done.
I was looking into that online last night about a guy adding springs to the front. This a pretty hard process?
No. Go to a truck shop and they will have old packs laying about. Take out what fits and build what you need. Or buy your 20k springs now. Dont know if the u-bolt pattern would be the same?
Still will not change a 12K to a 18 but should keep the nose off the ground. Check your kingpin and wheel bearings at least monthly when you lube it for play if you do lay on heavy loads.
For rear brakes install 8.5 wide shoes and drums to match. Fairly common these days for 4707 or 4709 shoes. Truck Shop
Thanks
I like the fuel tank under the cab with the steps built in, and one of the tanks split for hydraulic oil reservoir. That works good for western stars as the exhaust comes out under the cab but over the tank, so you can keep twin hundred gallon tanks with one cut down to 50 gallons for hydraulic oil. Your trucks exhaust takes a little more work around.
He doesn't need a hydraulic tank, its built into the dump bed.
Stupid time for me, He has a solo truck, why more than 100 gallons of fuel? When I am driving, (gravel truck or log truck) my truck get fueled every night. Less fuel more load. It is a nice looking job being done.
Post # 23, he says he's getting rid of the big fuel tanks.
Pete I currently run has two smaller tanks, RH is halved for hydraulic sump, the left is at most 110gal total.
Great job on the truck. I'm about finishing up a tractor to triaxle conversion. I have a question about your hinge plate, did you weld that to the frame or just weld it to the inserts and bolt it on? Also how has the 12k front springs held up? Thanks Christian
I usually figure rock at around 1.5 to 1.6 tons a yard when estimating jobs. 2200 a yard seems to light. I see by charts they say 2700 lbs. a yard but that not enough as most is wet. On the frame, I run a single frame on a 9400 international with 14 foot bed and seems to work alright. International does run a wider frame to the rear and I do have four leaf which spreads the load out on the frame more. You have a lot of bed and operators have a bad habit of loading the beds full.
Mass>> 55,000 on 10 and 77,000 on a tri of course there isn't a bridge left in the state that does not need repair. We re-sleeved a mack about three years ago to the back of the cab. The frame gave up again about a month ago stripped the frame again re-sleeved it again to the back of the cab. However the trucks get left out on jobsites where they are usually thought to be a sister ship of a 769. I really dislike 24 ton boxes they are a pain to spread with in anything less then optimal conditions, they beat the day lights out of the truck. we have one that is older and triple framed and the rail flanges are opening like tulips it will be another victim for the frame guys soon. However hauling giant loads is a New England thing. Beat the beejeebus out of the highway, the truck and the jobsite grade. Cut about 2 feet out of that box put a 3x8 side board up there and the truck will last forever hauling 14 to 16 yds
While I am on my soap box... let's talk about 12,000 pound axles in dump trucks. Way to light... it may haul it for a while or it may fail tomorrow. If you load your new highway truck triaxle to a Mass load of 77,000 and you blow up the drop coming on to a job or you forget to put it down going to the dump... how much weight do you have up there now? As the axle gives up and you wipe someone in a oncoming vehicle. You will be answering a question from a prosecuting attorney that will go something like this; Mr. So and so how is it you were operating a vehicle that had a front axle rated for 12,000 pounds on a public way that investigators calculate that at the time of the collision was carrying in excess of 22,000 pounds and resulted in a fatality. If you are going to build a dump truck... build one that won't get you sued or worse land you in prison.
I own a part of that soap box Saw all too many Dayton Four spring Freightliner spring suspension and Reyco set ups on old day cab road tractors used as dump trucks Are ok for 12 yarders but they put 14 & 18s on them against a 12 or 14k front. Old Macks Paystar cornqueens Acars and Brockways with rubber block hendrickson 18 or 20k fronts and steerable air pushers best for the money. Can get Petes Freightliners KWs almost any chassis set up that way and a damn sight better for work
https://www.mass.gov/service-details/commercial-truck-regulations , Shows 3 axle truck at 73000 LBS, assuming thats why trucks like above exist, saw a number of this set up for sale when i was shopping for a dump truck but figured 58 rears would be heavy for nh 56k limit on ten wheelers.
Nothing wrong with a little overkill oversized!!
Honestly i was concerned purchasing replacement 1200 24 rubber.
I am sure the ACar has enough gross vehicle weight to qualify for 3 axle max. Most three axle trucks rattling around here won't See this attachment 8.05: Approval or Disapproval of Overweight Reducible Load Permit Applications (1) Reducible Load. Reducible load permits may be granted to allow the operation of a motor vehicle together with its load for gross weights up to 73,000 pounds for vehicles having three axles, 87,000 pounds for vehicles having four axles, and 99,000 pounds for vehicles having five or more axles. Triaxle vehicles will be considered as a special type of vehicle and will be given permits for 73,000 pounds if they meet the minimum distance from front axle centerline to rear axle centerline as provided in 700 CMR 8.13: Attachment B: Standard Permit Parameters Reducible Loads. The Department will grant permits to these vehicles for an additional 1,000 pounds, up to a maximum of 77,000 pounds for a triaxle vehicle measuring 19'6" or greater in accordance with the following schedule: 15'4" to 16'5", 73,000 pounds; 16'6" to 17'5", 74,000 pounds; 17'6" to 18'5", 75,000 pounds; 18'6" to 19'5", 76,000 pounds; 19'6" and up, 77,000 pounds. When the vehicle is carrying a permit load the movable axle must be fully engaged. Permits will only authorize travel on specifically designated state highways or ways determined by the Department to be through routes which have bridges, structures and pavements of a capacity sufficient to indicate that they will be able to safely support vehicles of these weights on the aforesaid number of axles. These specifically designated ways are enumerated in 700 CMR 8.12: Attachment A: List of Massachusetts Department of Transportation State Highways. These permits for travel over the designated ways do not under any circumstances allow travel over bridges which are posted for a weight which is less than the gross vehicle weight together with load which is then being carried. No permit will be granted for a weight in excess of the weight for which said motor vehicle, trailer, semi trailer or semi trailer unit is registered or in excess of its gross vehicle weight rating.
Sorry, i know this reply is way behind.. The hinge plate is coped inside the frame and welded fully. The 12k springs are holding up fine. The truck does squat just a tad bit if an operator loads it too heavy. This truck is strictly for my business in excavation & land clearing. The bigger body has its pros and cons. If I could’ve found a slightly smaller one at the time I would’ve went that route. Overall we’ve been very pleased with the truck. Still a lot more to do, but zero issues since the build.
Sorry I didn’t give a final update guys. Still a bunch of things to do with it, but it’s a very reliable truck. I have a very good driver who doesn’t abuse it, and keeps a real close eye on the truck. Most all dumps in my area are conversions, the only complaints I’ve heard on those are the ones with air bags, or aren’t spec’d right. If I can help anyone through there own build, don’t hesitate to ask. Enjoyed the project.