I have a splined shaft from a old trasmission I am pretty sure I have it though the two clutch plates but not sure about the pilot bearing. I have to get it in the piolt bearing to be a squared up for the tranmission don't I ? It was such a problem trying to get them lined up that I hung the pressure plate on four inch by 3/8 inch bolts then pulled it away from the flywheel. Now I am pretty sure I am though the two cluches ,so do I tighten it up till it is snug ? Then try to get it to go into the pilot bearing a little ? Also the two little blocks of wood behind the throw out bearing when and how is a good way to get them out of there ?
OMG...DO NOT REMOVE THOSE WOOD BLOCKS Autocar! The wood blocks will come out once you have the pressure plate tightened down. Also, alignment pin must be in pilot bearing before tightening of pressure plate bolts.
Thought of something else Autocar. When you get the alignment pin through the clutch plates and into the pilot bearing, then you tighten the pressure plate bolts. When you have them tight, you should be able to slide the alignment pin in and out with ease. If it doesn't, you have to loosen the bolts and do it over again. If that alingment shaft is hard to slide in and out, you'll have difficulty installing tranny. It's got to slide free. You can easily check if your in pilot bearing by putting some grease on the nose of the alignment shaft. When you sink it in the bearing, then pull the shaft out, the grease will show you if it was planted in the bearing or not. Also, when your installing your tranny, make sure you watch through the bottom hole and slip the clutch release bearing forks to the backside of the release bearing, or you'll be pulling the tranny back to correct that little oversight. If the wood blocks don't happen to fall out when you lock down pressure plate bolts, no problems, once you get bolts locked down and alignment pin slides freely, you can simply pry the wood blocks out at that point and procede with tranny install.
I got the spline shaft in and tightened all the bolts down , torked them at 40 lbs. Pulled the old imput shaft out of the cluches and pressure plate. Worked off and on for four or five hours finaly gave up. I moved the tranny out of the way and put a rule back till I hooked the back side of the piolt bearing it measure 8 inches to the edge of the throw out bearing. Measured the old imput shaft and ran it in then put a ring of tape around it , pulled it out and it measured 8 inches. So I put a level on the old splin shaft then got the tranny and leveled it also as close as the old shaft but to no avail. It gets to the first cluch and refuses to go any farther. I have turned the imput shaft trying to coaxe it in but again to no avail. Ive used every four letter word known to man plus some new ones but still to no avail. I also measured the distance from the edge of the bell housing to the edge of the tranmissiom it measured three inches all the way around so I figure it is pretty squared up.Any new ideas ? I thought about getting eight four inch bolts and bolting it up them tighten up enough just to put even pressure thinking that may get it lined up. But was worried that I might bend the clutch plate. Some times it is better for myself just to walk away.
Sorry Autocar, can't really give advice on how to make the tranny go in. It's one of those things one pretty much has to be there working it. All I can say it has to be near to perfect to slip together, and when you finally hit that spot, she'll pert near fall together. But no, don't force it with bolt tension or something, generally yeilds bad things. Just be patient and stay at it. If you had the alignment shaft going in and out with no problems, tranny should go. BTW, you did put a new clutch brake disk on it didn't ya?
Hello, Autocar, I'm not sure this would help you at all, but... could you get a couple bolts that are longer than your transmission to bell housing bolts, cut the heads off, taper them a bit on the end with a grinder, and thread them into a couple of the top holes on the bell housing? Sometimes, they will kinda work as "guide studs"... for alignment purposes. In fact... you could even use four, and space them more or less equally around the bell housing. Just make sure you cut them long enough so you can grab them, to turn them back out. OCR
ATCOEQUIP covered the procedure pretty good Autocar.I'l add one note.I allways put the tranny in gear then put my foot in the output yoke then push & twist with your foot.Heck, Its like transmission aerobics Get mad at that dang transmission:cussing It also helps if you have some younger teenage type fellers working the transmission in to the clutch while you are standing beside the truck telling them what to do:drinkup
Uh...video please? Now that is a great idea!
How to do it .....How not to do it The only thing I can add is before starting aerobics put trans. in high gear so you get the best leverage for turning shaft. If you get it close enough to have the release bearing started into the yoke you can have someone step on the clutch while you twist and shake the output shaft as hard as you can. Tell your helper not to get stupid with the pressure on the clutch pedal. I almost always use the guide studs like OCR said. I've probably done this job 60 times and everytime it seems like it's some other trick that makes it fall in. I don't recommend my brother's "greatest" trick: he and another mechanic (notme) fought a great big old 2wd International tractor to a draw with everything lined up but a 5/8" gap that wouldn't close with several hours of tricks. They had the bright idea to chock the front wheels and bump the starter to push it together. Each thought the other turned the fuel off; so,... the tractor started with the first light bump and drove off the blocks. They realized if they mashed the clutch the tractor would fall in two with GREAT destruction, so they had to let it drive across the shop untill the pushblock on the front hit one of the columns that held up the shop and put some bolts in while the back wheel spun on the concrete.:falldownlaugh In short, all the things in these posts are good things to try and you never know which thing will work. You have my sympathy and I want yours cause in the morning I have to put a clutch in the truck I talked about in this thread :crying: Good luck, mitch
Did you try fitting the disks on the shaft before you installed them? I have found at times one disk will fit and the other one doesn't. You might want to check the shaft on your transmission for wear steps. It's pretty common that the splines of old clutch disks wear a groove in the shaft with slightly raised marks. The other thing is to put a little lubrication on the shaft so it doesn't get hung on one of the disk's splines. I have also found that using old transmission input shafts tends to leave the disks just slightly out of alignment. When you loosen the pressure plate you will notice you can move the shaft around a little. I usually purchase the plastic alignment tools when I get the clutches. You will find that it only takes one or two tools and you will be able do most truck clutches. Most of us have been in your position before. Don't wear yourself out. If it won't go there is a reason. Sit back for a second and think about what the possible reasons are and then start eliminating them. Good Luck!
It seems to help me if I have someone lift up on the alignment tool a bit when tightening the pressure plate as the weight of the discs will pull things a bit crooked. It's still one of those jobs sometimes it goes well and sometimes you can spend hours futzing with it and then it just slides in.
Today I started at eight and crawled out from under it at five and I am not much further along then I was yesturday. I pulled the pressure plate off again then made sure the shaft was going into the pilot bearing. Worked again for a number of hours still wouldn't start into the splin of the clucth. So I went to town and got eight five inch x seven eights bolts and ran them in around the whole circle. Played with it a while and it splipped in , got in thur the second clucth and it hung up. So I got shorter bolts and put them, drawed them up a little at a time. Seem like it was getting pretty hard so I checked and the throw out bearing was tight against the yook. To be honest I am about ready to say I CAN'T and get some help. The paper said something about adjusting the clucth but at the same time says it is ajusted from the factory. I tryed to remove the tranny again but it got stuck, my home made transmission jack is ok for pulling but not worth a dam to put back. It goes up and down and I think it needs to raise the back or front not sure. So for day number three I crawled out from under it and gave up. To day I wouldn't give up and should of walked away from it at one or so,pretty pissed and that dosen't help.
I feel your frustration Autocar. Those big trannies can be a bear without the proper jack. Any clutch adjusting would be done "after" the clutch installation is complete. It sounds like you didn't work your clutch release bearing forks to the backside of the release bearing. It's a pull type clutch, the forks have to be on backside of bearing. As your going forward with the tranny, you have to look up in the bottom inspection hole. Rotate clutch control shaft so forks go up and pointing toward clutch. Slide tranny in. The forks will fit over and beside the notches in the bearing. You may have to reach up in hole and rotate bearing for proper orientation. Once the forks are in notches, continue pushing tranny forward. As the tranny comes home, the fork will drop in place behind backside of release bearing. Did you install a new clutch brake disk?
Hey Autocar, I'm confident you'll get that $%*& tranny in eventually. Once you do, let's go over the adjustment. First thing is to make certain clutch brake is adjusted properly. I've done this so many times I can do it by myself feeling the clutch brake with the pedal. It might help, if you can't feel the clutch brake with your foot on pedal, to have a helper operate the clutch while your underneath. Reach up in bottom inspection hole so you can touch the clutch brake disk with your fingers and kinda rattle it. Have a helper slowly depress clutch. Release bearing will move in direction toward the clutch brake disk. Keep moving the brake disk with your finger. At the exact point where release bearing touches brake disk and you can no longer move disk, have helper stop and hold pedal movement. The pedal should be about 1" off of floorboard or end of clutch pedal travel. If it's not correct, adjust the linkage rod for you clutch to obtain proper engagement with clutch brake. Once you've done this, you now check the free play of clutch. With the pedal all the way up, move to pedal down with your hand until you feel the clutch forks begin to pull on release bearing. You should have at least 1" of free pedal movement before you begin to pull release bearing. If there's too much or no free play, you have to adjust the adjusting ring on your clutch.
It dosen't have a clutch brake, two cluctch plates a steel disk between them and the pressure plate. I can't figure out the forks when I looked at it before I pulled it lose it looked like it just pushed on the back side. It is a half a square maybe four inches long then with two curved fingers maybe two or three inches . The shafts slide in eather end probably one inch round stock
Does your clutch look something like this? http://www.sanco-bg.com/14 in Clutch Installed.JPG
Yep it sure dose !
That's a pull type clutch, forks have to go on backside of release bearing. Sort of between bearing and clutch pressure plate housing.
The throw out bearing looks like the one on mine but the way it mounts on the fly wheel is different. Can a guy tell where the fingers should go on that picture ?
The fingers are on the back side of the throw out bearing away from the pressure plate . That will give me a direction to go on Monday ,thankyou !
We'll give it a try. Question; is the clutch release yoke shaft above the tranny input shaft, and two fingers on yoke pointing sort of downward?
This is a different design of a pull type clutch Autocar, but the principle is the same. Notice how the "fingers" of the release fork is on backside of release bearing, between release bearing and pressure plate housing. http://skylinesmalaysia.com/pics/clutch/CLUTCH2a.jpg
Clutch brake If your clutch brake goes bad it is hard to put running, parked truck in gear, so you want replace it while you're in there. It slides on trans. input shaft. I went out to the shop and took a picture of one for you. You need to turn the forks so they point forward before they get to the bearing.
MITCH504 I GUESS I DO HAVE A CLUCTH BRAKE. I was thinking it would be larger. It is up tight against the tranmission wall right now. After seeing it I thought it was some kind of bearing for the throw out bearing.
Autocar, did you view the picture attachment that I posted in post #22? I still want to make sure we're on the same page as to how the clutch release forks go on the release bearing. Also, did you install a new clutch brake disk?
I didn't replace the clutch brake , Tuesday I will get one. The one thats on it is all the way to the rear of the imput shaft against the face of the tranmission. Is that correct ? And as far as the fingers I did look and I believe theres a pocket where they go. I will check it out in the morning . The yoke is above the imput shaft it will flip back and forward but can't turn upside down as the old style.
The brake does go right up against the trans. When you step on the clutch pedal it pulls the release bearing back to mash the brake between the release bearing and the face of the transmission. This stops input shaft of the trans. so you can put it in gear. Before the fork gets to the bearing the tips must point forward so they can go over bearing and down the front of it. If you were trying to put this together with the forks behind the bearing and got that far I bet you'll slip it right in tuesday. I'll be finishing one up tomorrow and will get you some pictures.
the easiest way I've found to pull down and reinstall a clutch is to work through the in spection cover and unbolt the clutch in the truck and alow it to hang on the input shft, bump the engine with a starter button to get to all the bolts on the pressure plate Unbolt bell housing and remove trans, drop the jack down and remove disks and pressure plate, install new clutch on input shaft and put trans back up, now all you have to line up is the input shaft in to the pilot bearing and bolt up bellhousing Once again working through you inspection hole bump over engine untill you get 2 pressure plate mounting holes faceing down and bolt up pressure plate, you will need to line up hole with a ailighnment bar and push bar upwards to line up and get in 1 bolt, bump over engine to get to your next 2 bolts and repeat, once you have 2 bolts in you should no longer have to use your ailignment bar, start all bolts and tighten a little at a time to properly seat clutch opn flywheel and watch to make sure your sitting properly on your flywheels step I do them flat rate this way and can do allmost any conventional in less than 4 hours
Tuesday I got the new clutch brake and repulled the transmission to put it on. Worked a few hours then it slipped togather like a glove on your hand. For sure I was a happy camper This morning I put the shifter back in rehook air lines and some sencors got everything done but the drive line and the P.T.O. I am about wore out climbing back and fourth from under that truck so I stopped today at one. One of the things I have learned from all of this is the next time I go into a repair shop and I look at there labor charges I won't roll my eyes because they earned every penny they charged on a project like this.
Pictures from before the apocalypse Hey Autocar, I know you were hoping to forget the whole experience, but I took these pictures before the forums went down. To save you some work next time you do this here are pictures of the way I put Eaton transmissions on the jack with the PTO on. It is a commercial trans. jack with tilt and all. I take the pieces of angle iron and flat bar that come with the jack off. I have never found anything they fit. I put on a piece of 3/8" plate that is 18x18" with a hole at the outside edge near each corner. I take the pump off the PTO because it's easier to take those 4 bolts out than deal with the lines and oil (I just tie the pump up out of the way). I put blocks on the plate, in this case an 18" 6x6 across the back and a 10" 6x6 beside the PTO shimmed up with a piece of 1x6. I tie the whole thing together with two good 1" ratchet straps across the trans. hooked in the holes in the plate. It is actually sitting on the PTO and the two blocks. If you crank the ratchets tight it will be very sturdy and stable. On the subject of your comments about mechanics earning their money, my father has a friend who is a not very bright hobby farmer. My father told him I was an excellent diesel mechanic (Pop has been punished) and when the flywheel ring gear went bad on his ** tractor he asked me what to do. (A lot of the teeth were completely gone.) I told him to seperate the tractor, pull the flywheel, and heat the ring gear, etc. He was very upset by this so since he was Pop's friend I told him to bring me the flywheel and new ring gear and I would change it. He said it was too much trouble to seperate the tractor cause it had a loader on it. I told him :beatsme He said "I know you mechanics don't do all that to change a ring gear so tell me what YOU would do." I said that's what I would do and he said he knew that's what mechanics tell people but they don't really do all that. Once again I said ":beatsme". He came back to my shop 4 or 5 more times over the next few weeks to try to coerce the information out of me. I finally told him I would tell him how to get the ring gear off without all that work. He said "I knew you would if I kept after you." I said "Well , listen close, cause I'm only gonna say it once" "Okay go ahead" "First pull the starter off." "I can do that" "Wedge a 1/4 stick of dynamite behind the flyweel, Light a long fuse and put the starter back on quick" He looked at me, walked out and got in his truck and left. He never mentioned it again. His bank vp daughter later told me she and her brother and sister (doctor and lawyer) got together and bought him a brandnew tractor.
Mitch504,I don't know if there will be the next time. For sure it will fade as time goes on. Thanks for everyones advice, this site is great for learning I am not sure what my next project will be,I am always looking as I drive around the country for something I can't live without.
Yeah I have that disease to; I was just at a friend and customer's yard and saw he just got an old Austin-Western crane. I immediately caught myself thinking "I wonder if he really wants that" Till next time, Mitch