Working on another problem child. I have a zero turn with a 28hp “Cat” 3 cyl. It’s actually a Perkins. I am having trouble finding anything on it online. It began to surge. I suspected fuel filters so I replaced the cartridge filter and cleaned the pre-filter/screen. It was filthy and I thought Ah Hah! Had to be it. Now I can’t get the little bugger primed. I have fuel stream at the lift pump and cartridge filter housing is full. I can’t get anything at the injectors. Maybe a spit of fuel every now and then. I can’t find a bleed fitting in the high pressure pump. Suggestions or directions? Still working on it and headed back toward fuel lines and tanks
They’re a SOB to bleed.. U can run thru a starter and a battery if ur not careful.. Make sure you have all the orings on the filter where they’re supposed to be.. Loosen all the lines AT THE INJECTORS.. Loosen the inlet line at the inj pump..is there an electric supply pump to push the fuel.? U may have to crank the engine inorder for the supply pump to work…?? Wait until u get fuel to the pump inlet with NO AIR.. & tighten.. Once u get fuel at the pump inlet.. crank the engine until u get fuel squirting out of the injectors and tighten the lines.. U should be ok now..
As a suggestion - Before you do what Mike has detailed above, just make sure there is no dirt/water in the tank and/or cr@p in the suction lines between the tank and the transfer pump.
Filter is good. It has manual priming bulb. I have fuel coming out the vent in the filter base. I have fuel coming out the outlet of the lift pump. Cracked all the injectors and only got air then fuel out of #2. Started and it ran on what sounded like 2 cylinders but it didn’t run for long. I had to leave it for the night but did notice the primer bulb was sucked flat. That tells me something isn’t right back toward tanks. Cleaning and replacing lines probably necessary on 18 year old machine. Fuel caps maybe sketchy at vents??I will get back on it tomorrow and post any progress.
Yes, do your priming WITH OUT the cap on the tank..
Cleaned tanks and blew delivery lines out. Could not get fuel to 1&3 injectors. By passed existing pre filter and went directly to canister. Cleaned canister and checked orings. Pumped bulb got fuel out vent of canister and good stream outlet of lift pump. Can’t get fuel at injectors. Tore canister back down and found outlet barb for fuel line loose. Tightened it. Unhooked what looks like a primer circuit at injectors and I get fuel there. Bypassed canister filter and installed inline filter and hooked fuel line directly to high pressure pump. Pumped bulb and got nice stream at #2 injector but not 1&3. Center fitting at pump where injector lines hook up was loose. Had to remove fitting on the left to get a wrench on it to tighten. Made my self some work. Need advice. The plunger sitting in the hole where the spring seats falls to the side when trying to install fitting. Can I use some grease to hold it long enough to get the spring and fitting back in? Attached some pics with questions. Is first pic the electric fuel shut off? Should it click when key is turned on? Second pic. Manual fuel shut off? Third pic. Can I use a little grease here to center that gizmo? Fourth pic. Is that hose and tube arrangement a priming circuit?
1st pic looks like the electric shut off solenoid.. Does it screw into the housing that the inj pump sits in.?? 2nd pic is the MANUAL SHUT OFF LEVER.. 3rd pic do not use grease or anything for that matter.. Put the spring up into the delivery valve holder.. and with your free hand hold it from coming out when you lower it into the pump.. it should center itself.. Last pic is the fuel return line from the injectors..
If u decide to remove the pump, U HAVE TO remove the electric shut off solenoid FIRST..
Yes the shut off solenoid threads into the pump housing. I haven’t checked voltage at plug yet but can’t feel or hear it when key is turned on.
OK. I have a few more ideas to check this a.m. The reason I changed fuel filters was that the machine started surging as if it was running out of fuel. I did find the screen in the pre-filter pretty grungy. The cartridge filter was relatively clean. Maybe another problem was going on. It has 800 hours on it. Question. Best way to troubleshoot electric fuel shut off? I can check voltage at the plug. Thinking maybe ignition switch? Fuel I am seeing at injectors could be bypass when I pump the primer? Second. What do I get if I remove the four screws around the plate on the outlet side of the pump where the injector lines connect? Does that unit come out of the housing? I need a schematic.
Take the solenoid off and put a piece of duct tape across the hole.. U can shut it off manually.. Or run a hot wire from the battery to the solenoid.. if it’s a 1 wire solenoid. Get off of the injector return line.!! They have no function other than returning fuel to the tank.. If u remove the 4 bolts, the pump will come up..& u don’t want that to happen..
So when you prime the pump with key switch off fuel is shut off from injectors? Due to timing of the pump would you not have injectors that were closed at one static crank position? My disadvantage is not knowing the lay out internally for the pump.
That’s not your only disadvantage.. The priming pump is to get fuel TO the injection pump.. period. From there, the inj. pump has “pistons” called plungers, that pressurize the fuel slightly and send it to the injectors.. from there, the injectors hold onto the fuel until it reaches a set pressure and then releases it into the engine in a very fine mist that “catches fire” into the cylinder.. U CAN NOT get fuel to the injectors by using the hand primer.. The solenoid turn the “pistons” either to RUN or to SHUT OFF.
Thx. I have a full pump and full system. I can pump the bulb and fuel flows out of #2 injector line at the injector. I understand what you said it is just confusing to see what I described.
Then u have a problem with #2 cyl in the inj pump.. What ever u do, DO NOT take the top apart and bump the engine over.!! The guts will get pushed up and u won’t be able to get them back down without serious damage to the pump..
Ok. If in fact the pump is bad is the attached pic the necessary fix? Replacement procedure?
did u happen to see my screen name.?? I’ve got 40 years experience rebuilding them.. U can contact me directly at: my screen name at aoldotcom in your mail server..
To bleed these can't you loosen the return into the inj pump supply and run the lift pump for a bit?
I don’t think he knows it has 1..?? I just enlightened him.. That’s probably WHY only 1 cyl pumps.. not enough fuel TO the pump inlet..
Doesn’t have a lift pump.
What do you think is in the bottom left of your 4th picture?
Correction. The gentlemen were discussing it having an electric lift pump which it does not. I should have said it has a mechanical lift pump which you can’t run to prime the system. It has a Delphi primer bulb.
If u wanted to keep a primer bulb, get a Yamaha bulb, sold in most boat yards/parts houses.. DO NOT USE AN ATWOOD.. sold at Walmart..
Ok. So far here is what I found. Mower is 18 years old. Only 800 hours. Engine began to surge and die last time out. It would immediately start but acted fuel starved. Suspected fuel filters. Pulled filter/screen before transfer pump was full of junk, more on that later. Changed cartridge filter and installed an inline filter in place of the bowl/screen that it had before. Primed system. Would not start. Continued to work on getting fuel to engine. Found a loose fitting on cartridge filter, blew out the supply lines back to tank. Would not start. Couldn’t hear fuel shut off solenoid cycling. Found no voltage at connector. Pulled the solenoid. Started but still acted fuel starved. Found the primer bulb check valve was not working and junk I found in screens was largely guts of bulb. Changed bulbs. Primed up and got a tight bulb. Started and it won’t idle. Runs at wide open throttle but throwing clouds of smoke. White at wide open and black at lower speeds. Ran for several minutes and will not clear. Air filters changed and I checked cold air tube between filter housing and manifold. Clear. Installed fuel shut off solenoid and hot wired it to actuate. Starts but smokes like a tar kiln. Stuck again.
Do u think some of the old line got sucked/pushed into the inj. pump and is now sticking the pump causing the run away and or poor performance.??
It would have to get through the cartridge filter but a strong possibility. I took the three injector lines loose at the pump and cranked it. I am getting a 1-2-3 pulse and good stream. Could an injector be stuck open? I went from no fuel to a flood and really hadn’t touched anything except filters, shut off solenoid and I did remove #3 fitting at the pump where the line fits. I was careful and got the spring back on the seat and everything lined up. I was using a magnet and the seat the spring sits on did come out. It had a splined type arrangement and went back in easily.
Does the lever you have circled on a pic before (it's the manual shut off) pull the throttle down to off/idle, doesn't matter if it's funny or not should still do it
Anything is possible.. but your talking about something getting caught by the filters..it’s a stretch thinking it made it thru the pump..
Without the shut off solenoid I used that manual shut off to kill the engine.
The rack is not stuck then
Grasping at straws. Been all over the forum and found one thread that discussed air leaks up stream from pump affecting timing and misfiring. Most of the things I have worked on have been in that area. Maybe I am missing something around the cartridge filter or lines. Thinking about sitting a clean fuel jug with fresh diesel above engine with an inline filter plumbed directly to pump just as a test.
You’ll need “something” to push the fuel to the pump inlet.. It requires about 6 psi to fill the fuel gallery to feed all 3 cylinders..
I'd recommend picking up a low pressure inline electric pump to get it primed. They're not that expensive and will properly push all the air out of your system so you can diagnose what issues you're actually dealing with. There are no shortage of engines that are a nightmare to prime with just a bulb or lever, so I always have one on the truck.
So I will go to inlet side of lift pump and bypass filters? I have an in line pump ordered.
I would just put the electric pump in place of the priming bulb if it is held in by hose clamps, but I know how Perkins sometimes loves their crimp fittings...
I am knee deep into this whole thing. Old wiring and relays are fighting me just to be able to start the engine. I have a plan for that once I get the demons exorcised from the engine. All the fuel lines have the wire type clamps. I am replacing them as I go with stainless worm gear clamps.
Ran fresh fuel through an in-line filter into the lift pump. Replaced all the fuel line clamps. Basically just isolated the cartridge filter. Same outcome. Starts and runs rough and fogs white smoke. I am down to pump and/or injectors. Dunno why as it was running fine between shutting off due to fuel cut off not staying retracted. I have had my daily diesel bath. Will have to regroup and read feedback.
I am knee deep into this whole thing. Old wiring and relays are fighting me just to be able to start the engine. I have a plan for that once I get the demons exorcised from the engine. All the fuel lines have the wire type clamps. I am replacing them as I go with stainless worm gear clamps.
The pump running my smaller Perkins is a $11 cheap electric one, has a spin on filter on it too
Next step is removing the pump and injectors. Sending them to TPG for tear down and inspection.
Size of threads for the injector in this Perkins? Trying to check compression.
Sent my pump and injectors to TPG. They arrived at his place Wednesday of this week and just arrived back to me about an hour ago. Installed and running like a top. I highly recommend Mike….The Pump Guy.
When I get some money up I'll be sending mine to him as well. I'm running one (I think) set for 700 cc instead of 1000