I'm shopping for equipment and looking for some insight to pricing. Is there a proper place to do this on the forum?
This should be as good a place as any. To answer your question, a lot. Lots of money, it's all expensive . . .
What are you looking for? A Philips head screw driver? A Cat D11? Or something in between?
Only thing I can afford is the phillips
I think premium brands will stay high for ever.In the last 3 years,inflation globally has caused significant price increases for the manufacturers themselves. Pre covid,a UK D9T would set you back £680k approx for a new 2019 unit. This saw major jumps to £750k in 2020.That trend continues to this day,and as of last week,a new D9 will cost £946k and you’ll get it in 2024. This has put continuous upwards pressure on second hand kit. Cat is a global currency
P.s a brand new fully rigged 1973 D9G was £77k at the time
As the economy shrinks,the price of used quality plant will initially ease off,or simply stop increasing.It won’t come down that much unless you start seeing insolvency auctions,but even then,the big boy dealers with money in the bank won’t let others buy it too cheap.They’ll have it themselves and sit on it for as long as it takes. Then there’s a few of the wealthier contractors that may sell a few of their older machines to keep the wages going through tight times,but probably not enough to cause prices to tumble. Then,last of all,there’s the small outfits that are selling up because they can’t make it pay,or they’ve just had enough. The big manufacturers will simply stop or slow production down,they won’t cut their selling prices at the factory.They can’t.
I should point out,that I’m only talking about premium brand equipment that has a global market.I’m not sure how prices of cheaper brands,or products that are made and only sold in the countries that they are made in,would hold up in a recession.
Currently looking at a mini excavator KX040 from Kubota. Buying one now, am going to hold off on the latter for a while. Pricing for a single machine is about 12% off MSRP, apparently they have more factory incentives if you buy more than one. Not sure if the dealers are negotiating lower than this right now or not. The machine has a cab and 6way blade and is $69k.
Well said N68. The only thing I would add that will keep the price of the larger iron up is all the money the US Fed has printed over the last several years has not all been released/spent in the market which will only drive up inflation. A good chunk of this yet to be spent money will be on infrastructure projects driving up or at least holding steady the demand for heavy equipment. Now this may not affect the global equipment market but will affect the North American market.
In general, some time after everyone agrees that "the price of this or that is outrageous and will never come down" is when it tanks real bad. We'll see.
I've seen that before in the real estate market back in '08..
Yeah. Commercial real estate is going to get hurt hard. However we have lost the petrodollar. Printing more money is the only option. I'm not sure if there will be a meaningful correction. I'm really curious though if the dealers are negotiating yet. The last couple of years they were not in my area.
Word on the street down here is that interest rates will start dropping in the 3rd and 4th quarter of this year and also Deere is getting ready to offer some incentives like 0% financing. the word on your street may be completely different and YMMV.
What's that mean? Prices will come down? Kubota is already offering pretty low interest rates.
I doubt the actual price will drop but hopefully interest rates will lower. What is kubota offering? I was looking into upgrading service trucks this year and the interest rate on a used truck scared me into keeping mine a while longer.
They've got their cash discount on the machine of about $2300. If you finance, that $2300 you pay buys you 3 years. Then, adding on to it, it's 1% for 4 years, 2% for 5, and 3% for 6. The 3 or 4 year plan are most appealing IMO.
Idk but i can't wait for oil to be $100 again this summer
I think if you can get a good deal and/or good financing you're better to buy now than hope the price will come down. A mini-ex is a fairly small investment in the overall heavy equipment field.
12% off msrp isn’t a bad deal, best I’ve every gotten on Kubota equipment is 15% off. Kinda depends when they got the machine in and what their cost on the unit is.
Not sure it will be 3rd or 4th quarter however I think the banks are betting on them coming down within a year. Banks here are only offering CD's at "higher" interest rates for 6 - 12 month terms which tells me they are banking (pun intended) on base rate going down. 6 month terms are higher than 12 month so it could be 4th.
Is this a machine to put to work? If so, good service is much more important than chiseling the dealer out of the last $5 bill. If its a toy purchase, just buy it. There must be two dozen companies making mini hoes. What other companies have you compared? Yes, being an informed buyer is a lot of work, and even more so in this era of equipment shortages. But each salesman should know what other machines you have demo'd. It doesn't matter what I paid for my equipment, what matters is what choices you have, and what you have to pay for each one.
Wait til we hit $200. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. If the prices drop I'll add a second, larger machine or a bunch of attachments. It just got in. The lot's been bare until recently, now it's got a lot of machines on it. @terex herder Easy to say when it's not your money. Kubota dealer wouldn't call me back on the machines they got in over the last couple years, so I'm not particularly eager to jump on the first offer from the dealer when they finally do call me. I do need a machine for work though. I'm not hiring out but I could easily wear this machine out with all I've got to do. Cat is the only other dealer in the area I'd buy from, but that's more $. So I'm pretty limited if I want a dealer with a good rep. Haven't even gotten to demo other machines, just rented a bobcat 7500lb machine. The local bobcat dealer, JCB dealer, and case/new holland dealer have s*** mechanic departments. So I'm looking to buy without even demoing so I have one this summer and don't have to deal with renting and transport multiple times, I'm pretty far out of town.
How much more was the Cat than the Kubota?
That's what I'm seeing too, however they are slow to react on both the introduction of CBDCs and the death of the petrodollar. Long bonds are going to get hit the worst and it will require more money printing. Typically rates go down, values go up. However I don't know if that's going to be the case right now. There's too much wonky in the economy, and I suspect they'll keep rates off 0% and just start new versions of money printing (quantitive easing, operation twist, etc). Kinda the same effect but the blue collar business owner is going to have a tougher go financially.
I get a kick out of people at the gas pump exclaiming, “oh we’ll never see $x.00/ gallon gas ever again.” I usually just nod and say yup, although the inner economist in me is desperately wanting to give them a lecture on commodities and macro economics.
They haven't had any supply. When I priced it last, they were about $10-15k higher, there wasn't an exact apples to apples comparison and they had a 6 month lead time. You're right I should probably check with them again. A business partner wants to buy a Kubota tractor, so this was kinda the introduction and I didn't go back to Cat. But I'll give them a call.
What's your inner economist say about half the world no longer trading oil for dollars?
Found a similar cat machine (304), last years model, no 6 way blade though, 50 hours on it, for sale from a private seller construction company, it's 5 hours away. $80k. Have to wait until tomorrow to get some info from the dealer on a new machine price.
That we have some major political problems in this country and the world right now, much of it brought on to ourselves, but in keeping with the forum rules I’ll leave it at that.
But to stay on track, I’ve found Kubota and Takueuchi to be on about the same level as far as pricing. Deere being a good bit higher and Cat being astronomical. There are some machines I may consider looking at Cat, but thier mini excavators are not one of them. I think $69 is a decent deal for the kx040 with a cab and 6 way blade. The amount of work you could accomplish in the next few months will more than make up for the savings you may get by waiting for the dealers to get hungrier.
Just from reading on here Takeuchi is shooting themselves in the foot by pressuring their dealers to buy more machines than they can realistically sell. So much so that dealerships are either being taken away or the dealer is dropping the line. Not too long ago on here there was a very frustrated owner of a Tak having a big problem trying to get warranty after a dealership lost the Tak line and weren't authorized to do warranty on a machine they sold a few month's previous. That would certainly cause me to look elsewhere. I think Kubota has a pretty good reputation for building a quality product and a bonus if they have a much better price than Cat or other large heavy equipment brands. 10K is a lot of difference on a machine under 80K.
Before I'd pay that for a toy, I'd just rent when I need to use something. That way I don't have to fix it if it breaks. Mini excavators are too much cost for what they are. Yeah 3 steps better that a hand held shovel. If it doesn't weigh at least 20 tons its worthless.
We use the **** out of our 305E, it's handy as a shirt pocket. Since we bought it back in '21 IIRC, we've added a hammer and 3' bucket with smooth edge that is the ticket for backfilling curbs and final grading sites. We rented for years after I sold a 334 Bobcat mini thinking we didn't really need one. Finally got tired of renting and bought a used 305E. It's a money maker for us.
Maybe show up with your shovel next time we replace a septic tank in a backyard . . . ? Or just bring a 20 ton, demo the house first so it fits into the backyard
Or try to load up a 20 ton machine to haul it 4 miles on nonpaved winter roads to fix a water line that's 7 feet deep. You be unloading that sucker to pull the truck and trailer out more than youll be fixing the line.
I was not thrilled with the Cat that I rented last year. I would not let price put you into a corner. I'd take the time to demo the iron.
I've never demoed anything. Last couple years was the first time I started using heavy equipment, nothing was available, even rentals were tough to get. I guess that's probably available now now that things are on the lot.
Wow, Bobcat and JCB lots are full of mini excavators right now. 5 on the Kubota lot.
I think supply is getting back to normal with some over production. The next 6 months should be a buyers market IMO.
^ stock clearance sales.