I've followed many threads where potential excavator buyers are contemplating enclosed cab versus open cab. Other than slightly more weight and certainly the additional cost I don't see any downside to an enclosed cab. In fact, I think an enclosed cab is safer, healthier, and ultimately makes the operator more productive. Here's my thinking. An enclosed cab: 1) filters out dust and no bugs (or panic if you hit a hornets nest); 2) AC/Heat that helps make operators more productive in extreme conditions; 3) Cab stays cleaner and so do the controls and gauges; 4) Noise pollution is reduced including inhaling diesel fumes; 5) I believe it's safer. I hear arguments like, "I don't want to break the glass"...but if a tree limb or brush is hitting the glass hard enough to break glass--in an open cab you sacrifice your face and/or body. I'd rather break safety glass and replace that as opposed to my body; and 6) Inhibits operator environmental awareness? I heard this argument too, "I'll never work in an enclose cab. It's too dangerous. It limits your vision and awareness of people around you when working." I just dug a trench for a neighbor. I had 2 adults and several children in the area. I discussed the boundaries and rules with the adults and kids, I opened my front windshield, locked my door open and locked my slider window open. I worked carefully. I think that was safe. I don't believe that an open cab would have offered any advantages in this situation. That said, most of time I'm operating in heavy brush, hot weather, and a lot of bugs. I can't image an open cab scenario. I'd be heat exhausted, full of dust and fumes, fighting flies, being whacked with brush/poison oak... If I have the door and windows open the AC is still somewhat effective. Well, thought I'd just throw this thinking out there and see what kind of response I get. I'm always ready to be educated by the pros on this site. Thanks a bunch. Oh, and when I'm working on something that's a bit boring I can turn on the radio and chill out while I work.
I decided to go with an enclosed cab on my Bobcat E35. For this and smaller mini excavators, no cab may be more typically chosen in this area. For me, the weather protection and protection from dust were keys to the decision. In addition, if the mini is left out in the elements the operator's compartment is protected.
Ciguest: Agree. The more I think about it, it seems that an overriding factor for guys that work a full day on a machine would be fatigue. In an open cab you're dealing with the elements (heat/cold/wind/rain/snow), insects, possible heat dehydration, cold hypothermia, etc... I don't work 8 hours on my machine--but if I were I think I'd be pretty fatigued operating it during a hot dusty day or real cold day. I would think this should be a huge safety issue. I wonder if anyone knows the ratio of excavator accidents enclose cab v. open cab. If my suspicion is correct then employers (companies in the digging business) should only buy enclosed cabs to reduce accident rates and associate costs.
I’ve run many hours in both open and full enclosed cab mini excavators. Deere 17G example: I love the open cab because of the excellent visibility. If your running this small of a machine, usually your on and off it frequently, so an open cab is nice. We often take the ROPS off to sneak into locations that wouldn’t be accessible otherwise. It’s super easy clean the operators area too, quick leaf blower or power washer. Deere 50D example: full cab with heat and a/c. The heat takes the edge off a winter Michigan day and kinda helps defrost the glass. The A/C also helps, but with so much glass, your still in a hot fishbowl. Adding window tint helps reflect the heat and glare. It’s challenging to keep the cab clean. Muddy boots, and jobsite dust are always present. The reduced noise is a huge bonus. Even with the front window opens, the rear glass shields you from most of the noise. Until you break a window…. A full cab on any machine smaller that a 35 would be cumbersome in my opinion. Cheers Todd
Well I'll add my $.035 adjusted for inflation. For mini's - 305 sized and down we prefer open cabs for many reasons that are specific to what we do with yellow iron. Our 305 is used for digging around utilities in tight places, running small diameter piping (12" and down) like roof leaders and domestic water lines in addition to tight space excavation and demolition. All of these situations include groundmen with shovels in addition to existing utilities or structures you don't want to damage. As far as the operator being out in the dust, heat and other elements well so our our groundmen. I think an open cab is a safer option for what we do as line of sight is not distorted by glass and verbal communication is easier. The other plus's are it's not another A/C system to maintain or glass to replace, not that we have major issues with either. CTL's and everything else has full cabs with A/C, the next compactor we buy will have a cab and A/C if nothing more than to protect all the electronics in the operator station.
Cabs for me. I have to dig in all seasons, get out and hook up, dig, get out. Nice to have a place to cool down or heat up.
I requested a cab with our new 35. I have used the heat enough to justify it, and I have no problem navigating tight spaces with it. You've seen the pictures With the side window open and front window open, I have plenty of communication with people around me if needed. When working closely with people that is how I run in most any weather. I can still push heat at my feet. My only complaints: 1) it seems a little tighter to get into. 2) on the 35G, it reduces boom articulation to 62 degrees either side, where the non-cab can get 72 degrees that one way. Sometimes it comes up.
Many years ago a friend was ordering a new 450 Deere dozer......couldn't bring himself to check the box "cab w/heat & ac" We "discussed" it over a copious ammount of beer. Doug, at 25° wind chill the damn dozer never gets any warmer and at 90° it ain't gonna get any cooler. Nothing more was said. Couple months later he picked me up to go run the new machine. Damn, that cab was nice... Ed
I have lost all feeling running a dozer in the winter. That was the big thing about all the top drive 8's and 9's that came out, everyone got a cab around here and it was so nice.
Yep - anything other than a mini-ex we have cabs with A/C, we hardly use the heat a couple of times a year..LOL
Funny, seldom use AC, mostly not more than a couple weeks a year. THE HEAT.......all but about 4 months of the year.
If this had happened with a closed cab I doubt I'd get the cab door open but maybe could break out the glass on the other side. I was working by myself but did have access to a phone. Should've had the rollbar in the up position. It smoked badly before it finally quit running after laying it on its side.
Break the glass, slide the side windows open, pull the front widow open…..
should have had the roll bar up.... YA THINK???
My neighbor uses a skid steer to load wood. He never wore his seat belt. One day he was picking up a pallet with forks that was too heavy. The machine cantilevered forward, he slid out of the seat between the pallet and machine and the pallet shifted and crushed both of his legs. He's still alive (walks with a severe limp) but always wears a seat belt now. I learned from his mistake. ROPS don't help much if these are not up and the operator belted in. Even in an enclosed cab wearing a belt is the way to go. On another thread one of the experienced guys said he face-planted on the windshield of his enclosed excavator when maneuvering without a belt. Ouch.
I got tossed out of the seat flipping a backhoe on its side. No I wasn't injured, but I was educated. There was a true story of a skid steer operator had built a ramp to load tall dump truck. He got too close to the truck & front wheels dropped off the end of the ramp. As the loader fell toward the truck, he grabbed the wooden rail top of the dump body both hands, as the top of the front opening crushed both hands. In his case, he was near losing both hands. Doctors revived the practice of using leaches to consume pooled blood in both hands. He recovered. Seat belts are a good idea!
Yabutt...some of those mini excavators cabs are soo small. And they seal up pretty tight. Bean burritos for lunch and BOOM...no more cab glass...
At my age, I avoid burritos.
skid mark in a wrapper.
I've got a Cat 304e at work with full cab, heat and A/C. It's a nice feature in rough weather. I've had to replace the lower most window once, I was demolishing a large shed and I didn't see a stray 2x4 come out of the debris pile while I was loading it into a container. I've got a brush head on it and the glass keep flying debris from coming in the cab as well as the bugs I stir up. When I'm trenching I've got all the glass open, front glass attached to the ceiling, side door open and side window open. There's just too much glare on the inside with the glass in place to see what I'm doing. I still get a little relief from the A/C with the fan on high with the glass open. Bottom line, I'd get another machine with full enclosed cab
Don't have air in any of my excavators but the heat sure is nice in the Missouri winters. Excavators are one of the coldest jobs around in the winter if you don't have heat.
I ran open ROPS machines nearly all my working life. The few times I ran anything with a cab I didn't care for the diminished view. But the heater and AC when needed was well worth any inconvenience the cab imposed. It was not unusual to see a carbide tipped tool, permanently mounted in the cabs for breaking the glass in an emergency.
That little plastic hammer is all but rotted away in my 120. The place where it clips to is broken but it still wanders around on the cab floor. I hadn't noticed if the mini has The glass breaker in it.
The Cat I mentioned has an escape hammer hung on one of the cab pillars
Speaking of seat belts, I already posted in another thread, but I'm pretty certain it saved me from severe injury or maybe worse the other day running a roller. I vote for enclosed cabs on equipment. After working my open cab skid steer all day in Sedona, I am covered in dirt and can't go anywhere without someone asking me "what the heck happened to you??"
If I knew where to look, Mrs. B took a shot of my friend. He had been rolling my driveway. He was doing the shoulder where it tips down only a few feet to the lawn. I wouldn't have believed it was steep enough to slide the smooth drum vibratory roller, but it was. His brother saw it happen, he describes it as him hanging on for dear life! no seat belt.
The vibration is a funny thing, it will just kick you out on even a slight incline if your not careful. But I learned my lesson…
Hey CM1995, per your thought above: "As far as the operator being out in the dust, heat and other elements well so our our groundmen. I think an open cab is a safer option for what we do as line of sight is not distorted by glass and verbal communication is easier." I don't doubt your experience and expertise. I don't have that as an operator. My thinking about an enclosed cab is this: A ground man with a shovel, tired, distracted, in the rain, in the heat, is not going to kill someone with a shovel. Obviously, an operator of an excavator can--easily. We all know the power of hydraulics and weight against a human body. Don't you think a well trained operator in an air conditioned or heated cab against the elements is safer than an operator that is out in the dust, heat, cold, etc... not unlike a tired or distracted auto driver on the road. I would really like to see some operator accident statistics: Do open cab operators have more or less accidents than enclosed cab operators. Maybe these stats aren't kept...and again, I totally get your point. Best, A
In a mini-ex digging around fiber optics or a live gas line in tight quarters? No, we would rather have an open cab for the reasons I stated which comes from many, many hours in the seat doing such. Now laying 24" RCP with a 325 yes of course cab with A/C. When laying pipe with the larger hoes the front door is open with the A/C going, yeah I know it lets some dust in but the safety factor of vision and communication is more important. Like I said in my OP that some must've skipped over. We only prefer open cabs on mini's for the work we do which is commercial site work. Our mini is only used either digging or demo'ing in tight places usually with live existing utilities involved. Our mini isn't cleaning fence rows or performing other tasks where a cab machine is more suitable.
I dig around fiber and gas. I hate people who design this stuff. But just carry windex when things get tight. Gas line is just to the right of tap. This is window up. This is window down, which I dug with it down.
Wow. You have serious digging skills! I tried to locate our septic system for a guest house on our property. I had a rough idea where it would be. I worked as gently as I could with an 18" bucket...just barely scraping back dirt after getting down through 14" of top soil. On one draw I felt a slight tug on the bucket, lifted it up, and guess what? A piece of curved rebar in the shape of a handle. Yes, I broke the lid on one side of the tank. $100 to replace it. I'm not skilled enough to dig around gas or electricity! I'll call you. I really do get the points that CM1995 articulated. It's nice of you guys to take the time to educate newbies like me. Thanks.
Lol. Lots of hand digging goes into it. Lots. 34 years and an estimated 2500 residential sewers hookups will force you to be an operator around utilities. Here’s the finished hookup. This picture gets sent to inspector.
Utilities are always a challenge. Replacing around 160' of of 8x12 box culvert on a project 2 year ago. The box culvert section weighs in around 22K lbs. The fiber line is in the orange conduit ratchet strapped to the trench box, the black line is 6" metal gas line that's live. Closer pic of the utilities and the discharge line running along the top of the trench shield from the 2 pumps we had to run constantly in order to dewater the work area. Nothing like a fragile metal gas line that's in service. It was fun getting that first piece of pre-cast in place under the trench shield and under the gas line. Hoisting a rental 305 in the hole to clean up the existing box culvert. No enclosed cab required. Horses of courses - there are 10,000 ways to skin a cat.
@Allan M , I just noticed your pic in your avatar. Might have addressed but what is your machine? It looks like mine. U48-5. I may have read it in another post but memory is short. Here’s mine.
That looks fun. I’ve never worked on large commercial(union?) jobs. Would like to get in on that profit though(without the union).
I think you might be an adrenalin junkie working on stuff like this. One wrong move and you get blown up or electrocuted or both. You probably don't need coffee in the morning on jobs like this. Amazing!
I've got a 2016 Kubota U55-4 with enclosed cab--so about 12.6k pounds. I think this is a very well made machine. All joints tight, engine and electronics no issues, DPF no problems, about 2300 hours at this point. I'm getting somewhat proficient clearing land, taking down trees and cutting trails on 45 degree sloped mountains on the back of our property. I think our machines are very close in size and power. CM1995's pic showing him lowering a CAT 305 into a hole really blows my mind (that's the size of my machine). That CAT he is driving is a monster by comparison. I'd love to get into the cab of one of those and give it a try...and yes, I would need adult supervision so as not to get into trouble!
Nah - proper planning and experience, along with a little luck usually gets the job done.
What do you do with all the rebar sticking out on both ends? Drill?
those box culverts are some hefty stuff. I have not set objects like that. I see dowels out of both pieces, the old and the new. Did you form up a pourback between them?
Those are #5 rebar dowels on 12" centers IIRC. Drilled the existing culvert in the ditch and the new pre-cast up on the ground. Used a Milwaukee 18V SDS rotary hammer drill - went through it easily. Set them in two part epoxy. No doubt Sky. Had to take the bucket off the 349FL in order to handle the sections comfortably. We site built formwork for each end connection. The last connection was interesting, built all the interior formwork and flew it in with the last regular sized culvert section. Had the last pre-cast section in place and ready to start forming when a typical AL summer thunderstorm hit. This culvert drains a fair portion of the city center so 1" of rain will produce a 2-3' deep flow in the box. This was one of those rains. Not that time but one of many July storms. This was the second section set, notice the 2 orange fiber conduits. We quickly gathered up our tools, power cords, extension cords and gas meter then headed out the culvert. The 2x4 3/4" plyform pieces along with all the 2x4 whalers for the interior forms vanished never to be seen again. Had to cut smaller new ones that would fit through small square opening in the culvert for an 18" discharge that was at least 60' from the last connection. One side of the connection to existing all wiped down.