Hi I have a 1949 Hough HF payloader with a gas engine. I also have 1987 Case 850B Crawler Dozer with a diesel engine. Does anyone one know what diesel engines can handle pure vegetable oil and run well? I use pure filtered veggie oil in my 2002 Chevy 1 Ton Silverado with Duramax 6.6 engine and it runs great. The question is, can older heavy equipment diesels handle the veggie oil?
It is mostly a function of the injection system rather than the engine itself. No way I would put it in any HPCR system such as that Duramax because they have a hard enough time working on regular diesel. I had a friend who did for a couple years but injection components failed pretty regular as he was running a lot of hours.
What exactly is the "veggie oil" that you are using ? Biodiesel or real vegetable oil like I have in my refrigerator.
It is waste vegetable oil filtered to 400 microns, heated ,settled and dewatered(Via heating). I never use dark oil as that has animal protein which is best processed out by making batches of biodiesel.
Thanks for the insight. I do not know how often your friend changes his filters but that is imperative on Duramaxes anyway. No failures yet after a couple of years. I have on occasion ran a full tank of regular diesel through it just to clean out any impurities. In the winter I add HEAT to help with viscosity but I also have ablock heater and AZ does not get that cold. The question is do you think the older diesel engines can handle pure vegetable oil and if no, why not. All original diesels were designed to run exactly that Veggie oil. Thanks for your input. Cheers, Rhino
20 years ago we ran a 1969 JD 4020 on sunflower oil for most of the summer. I think my dad mixed in a little diesel with it. Maybe 15% diesel. Never had any problems. Smelled like cooking French fries all the time. LOL. We have a sunflower crushing plant 5 miles from the farm. Did it just to try it.
Hi and thanks for the reply. I like hearing that it works because it stands to reason that it would. The viscosity in warm weather is probably the same for regular diesel. Cold weather spells trouble for all diesels, moreso for veggie oil. The cars that run Biodiesel generally have heated filters and tanks which mitigates the viscosity problem. Others have dual tanks which allows for the truck to start and warm up on regular diesel and then one can switch over to veggie oil for the remainder of the trip. I am really keen to know what tractor/hvy equipment engines or engine types do best with veggie oil. Most can handle bio diesel but I hear the newer the engine the more finicky they can be, limiting the amount of biodiesel potentially used. If they cannot handle bio diesel they probably cannot handle veggie oil. I plan to titrate my Case 850B engine with first one gallon per tank and then two etc to monitor performance. I will change the filters often and see what happens. Unless I get a glaring NO from someone who says it wrecked my Case 850B when I tried it.... Thanks again for the reply! Cheers, Rhino
I worked on a project in 2000 where we experimented with straight Veg oil (55 gallon Drums) Consisting of mostly Wesson oil, a mix of corn and canola oil. This was used to fuel a huge V-8 Cleveland Diesel genset. We found that the oil had to be heated to 140 degrees and circulated through the head passages and injectors to get a reliable cold start. Once the engine heated up the fuel no longer needed to be heated as the return flow heated the tank pretty well. We ran the stuff with no changes to the injectors and a load test on the generator showed full power was available.
I have a friend who runs pretty much everything he's got on used vegetable oil. They are all pre-computerized diesels, but I don't know if that matters, or if it's just personal preference.
The most reliable engines are the type that run "in-line" injection pumps.. they dont rely on the fuel for all their lubrication.. its just an "in & out" scenario..& the tolerances are much greater, compared to "rotary/distributor" pumps.. I've done quite a few inline AND rotary pumps that ran "french fry/chicken" grease.. Filtration is a MAJOR part of the success.. AND HEAT.. In a rotary pump, U CANT let 1 sit for any length of time or the oil gums-up.. THATS what happens when folks run "Bio fuel" & let their machine sit all winter & expect it to start come Spring.. Good luck w/ your project..
Hi sorry for the delay, I have been working on a starter for my 49 Hough HF. I wish I could see the data on this experiment. The project seems to have been conclusive that it is safe at least for a "huge Clevland V8 diesel". I think the pre electronic vehicles seem safest but Utah Biodiesel has a list of vehicles in which biodiesel can be used. They also note that not all vehicles can run 100% but depending on th evehicle the percentages can go up or down. I wish I knew what the limiting factor is. I am sure it is the more delicate newer technologies. Need more data even if anecdotal. Thanks for responding RZucker!
That sounds awesome. I wish I knew what vehicles can handle the vegetable oil. Thanks for the reply.
Wow great response! Thank you! In line injection pumps may be the clue I was looking for.Seems like caution is warranted for rotary pumps. I would kill to know what you know brother. You have certainly got me wanted to know more. Thanks again for the very helpful response.
I once ran a 5.9 Cummins on svo coast to coast. It worked well. Preheated on diesel and switched to veggie oil. 2pre filters. That engine was a mechanical rotary pump direct injection engine If I’d do it again (and I won’t) I’d use an indirect injection engine with an inline pump. That would be the best setup in terms of longest reliability
Hi Fletcher thanks for the reply. This is the kind of response I need because it gets down to what kind of engines might handle SVO best. The double tank method is probably necessary in cold weather but here in AZ I only need a block heater. Occasionally, on the coldest days I add HEET to the tank. The two prefilters sound like a wise move too. Many of the folks driving SVO duramax have switched to dual filters with an added pump. I think the names are FASS, AIRDOGG and I forget the others. They run 400 to 600 bucks but save wear on th einjector pumps which also cost 600 bucks but a bear to get at should you need to change/repair. Thanks for the reply.
it was said years ago that one of the problems with both biodiesel and vegie oil was the rubber hoses ,seals etc on older vehicles would sucum to the different solvent properties .
Biodiesel is similar to regular diesel. The base ingredient of one being petroleum while the other vegetable oil. What they add in is often methanol and caustic lye which break down the animal fat in Waste Vegetable Oil(WVO). I do not know the process for making petrochemical diesel but I read that it has sulfates and other impurities which pollute the air and wear engines. Straight Vegetable Oil(SVO) has no chemicals but might contain animal fat and water if it is filtered used oil. Straight vegetable oil has no impurities like the processed fuels but may have residual water if not heated thoroughly. SVO does not harm most older engines. Running biodiesel of any kind has been known to clog filters in initial use because it actually dissolves buildup in the system. The rubber seal and hoses are vulnerable to any biodiesel that has high chemical additives and one can find the different grades of biodiesel if you look around. The kicker for trucks at least, is that the newer ones can only handle a certain percentage of biodiesel and drivers should know what is at the pump before filling up. I am assuming the same is true for heavy equipment. So far I have heard forum members who caution use of straight vegetable oil in certain types of hi pressure fuel pumps in newer vehicles. Utah Biodiesel has good videos on the subject and they also have a list of what trucks can use what biodiesel. Thanks for the input. Cheers, Rhino
Yes I’d go old idi engine with svo. Don’t mess with making biodiesel. Methanol is toxic and messes up your brain. You can cut your straight veg oil with rug (regular unleaded gas) to lower the temps for a clean burn. I have never done it but have read about it. Have you found a machine to run it in?
My brother has run his Dodge 24 valve 5.9 Cummins on filtered recycled deep fryer oil for a few years now with no problems. Summers only though as it gets too cold in southern Alberta during the winter without a preheating system