Which one do you do? I push, because that method allows me the ability to use my bucket with the machine weight above it to catch/stabilize myself when I have to reset when I run out of travel. I see people pull, and I don't understand it. I understand that it balances more of the weight uphill, but I don't see that as being as advantageous as having the boom/stick/bucket below me. I suppose maybe it's a case by case concept... I can see having the weight below the ground engagement tool as being more effective in stopping a slide in certain situations.
We have to climb steep, slippery slopes of logs to go up a level once we have filled a layer in the ship. It can sometimes be very dangerous especially if it has been raining or the logs are green. We always start with the boom and bucket pointing up hill sometime diving into the logs with the beak for some extra grip and stability, sometimes when i get half way up I may very carefully slew all the way around and then push my way up but 9 times out of 10 I am going up with the boom as low as possible to the logs and carefully track my way up. We may have to do this 3 or 4 times on a shift on average.
Orlando, I don't know how well lit your working environment is, but I'd be interesting to see some videos of your work. CJ
When I get a chance and learn how to post video on here from my cell phone I will post some vids, the working environment is not that well lit but the machines have good lights.
The majority of the time I pull up the slope, of course conditions vary and it's not a hard and fast rule. If it's just a normal embankment slope, I prefer to pull going up. That way I can see the top and where I am going. I keep the bucket planted in the slope if it's muddy, pull with the boom and walk the tracks at the same time. Either way, pulling or pushing, at some point if the slope is long you have to reposition the boom and bucket and that can make the machine slide on it's tracks. Also and may just be my perception, but it seems my 321 has more pulling power than pushing power.
Hydraulic cylinders have more power when the rod is extending from the cylinder. Is this the configuration while you are pulling?
All excavators will have more pulling power. I pull up slops 95% of the time.
I agree on any excavator I have run. @ Oldandworn: I believe you, although no one has ever explained it to me, I have seen it. I also know on some shovels the cylinders are flipped from the normal excavator configuration, which seems to be rods away from the pump. Do you know why that is the case?
The very design of a hydraulic cylinder, it will have more power when it extends the rod out (on an excavator, that's pulling the stick in). The hyd. fluid has the most possible surface area to push against because the rod is not on that side of the cylinder, whereas when the cylinder is retracting, the fluid only has the surface that the rod doesn't take up to push against.
You loose a lot of surface area because of the rod. Pushing out you have the whole area of the back of the piston.
I pull myself up the hill wherever possible because the way I've been taught is that the anchor point should be higher up in case you start to slide, that way it's much easier to control what's going on. If you start sliding down the hill facing downhill and you jam the bucket in the ground, the slope is slippery enough and you've got a bit of momentum going you could potentially pivot around the bucket and end up sideways to the hill and if it's steep enough it can roll you over... With your anchor point above you the chances of that happening are reduced...
I agree great point
Your hoe is stronger pulling than pushing too. The cylinders are all designed to pull in and fill the bucket.
A real operator as opposed to a weekend warrior such as myself explained to me that pulling is much safer as you wont pivot around the bucket and go sideways if you push and slip. With the bucket uphill it works like a sea anchor and keeps you parallel to the slope which is safer if you go. Of course this operator has walked excavators up slopes that I hardly have the cahoonas to walk down let alone run a machine on.
I agree that pulling is best, most of the time. There are exceptions. I pushed my way up about a 200 ft long slope a little steeper than a 2:1, but not quite 1.5:1 once. I was on an early 235, 32K serial number. It would not track and boom up at the same time, so pulling was out of the question. It would track and boom down stick out, but barely. I could only go about 2 to 3 ft at a time before carefully repositioning. Sometimes, when I would lift the boom to pull in for another bite, I would slide back to where I was, and have to repeat. Rocks as small as 4" would halt my progress, and I would have to get out and clear the path for the tracks by hand. The other concern I have about pulling is if the slope is steep enough you need to be careful booming up too high. I have seen hoes go over backwards before. The counterweight is downhill, and needs to be balanced by the weight of the boom and stick. If they are raised too high too fast, the weight transfer can send it over. Whether you are pushing or pulling, it is always best to have the sprockets on the downhill end, so they are climbing the track instead of pulling it all the way over the top. Remember on steep ground, do everything slower and very smooth so you do not upset the balance.
The answer is "It depends". Based on my experience running small machines on some steep hills in NH, pushing was usually more effective. This is because the limiting factor with a smaller bucket (and loose material) isn't the hydraulic power of the machine but the actual grip you can get on the slope without just taking another bite. Obviously this is going to be different in a 345 or something because the load-bearing ability of the soil goes up roughly with the square of the bucket size (2x more area engaged, 4x more load you can put on it). There's ALOT that goes into that, but that's generally what you'll find. The stability issues others have mentioned are also at play. Pulling is more stable, but you also can't flip over backwards with the boom down the slope. Be aware of your drive sprocket location on larger machines. Always down the hill so the weight of the machine drives the teeth against the tracks and holds them there. Also be aware of whether your actions with the boom are picking your tracks up off the ground. Any attempt to pull or push yourself will go worse if you are lifting the tracks off the slope and digging holes with the end that's engaged. Try to imagine a way to keep thrust into the hill to keep as much of that track engaged as possible and avoid overstressing the soil (obviously causing slip and digging). Practice does make perfect. I'm not a pro by any means, but I've gotten hoes up hills that others couldn't.