What would be the pros and cons? Will it work?
Don't you mean a hydraulic pump???
No, the engine.
When i posted about the pumps this morning I was going to look at a 246 that supposedly needs hydraulic work, but when i got there it actually needs much more, but it has a good engine. I have a 226 that is pretty nice except it needs an engine,a and I haven't been able to find one so I want to put the 246 engine in it.
I think the turbo would make it interesting to refit...
Do you mean the height?
S/N's?
I don't have them with me and I won't be able to get them for a few weeks because I am out of town but I will post them as soon as I get back to work on the project.
The serial numbers of the 226 is 5FZ 1452 engine sn 3NW05029,arrangement #144-6194,the 246 sn 5SZ00661,engine sn3NW07330 arrangement 147-1234. After a lot of looking an speculating I don't think there will be enough space above the engine on the 226 tofit the turbo charged engine under the radiator but I am hoping that if I exchange all of the external components from the NA engine over to the turbo engine it will work. I will appreciate any input from techs that know more about this.
Well its the same engine if they are original A models. Minus the turbo for the 226. So if the pistons are the same you could swap the fuel systems and manifolds and maybe some other things im sure it might work. If you have the injection pump off Id pull out the oil pump and put the updated on in so you dont have another perkapillar no oil disaster.
That's what I'm thinking too. I was hoping to get some confirmation from a Cat tech.
I’ll have a look at the level of commonality between the two engines tomorrow and let you know. Fingers crossed that the internals are the same.
Thanks,I appreciate that.
246 is a 3034c 226 is a 3024 with a turbo there is next to no interchangeability between them my best idea would be to sell the 3034c and find a correct engine for your machine that's assuming the engine is any good. I've done my share of 3024 overhauls there pretty cheap to do up if you have a usable block.
I concur with tyler, almost nothing in common. Time for plan C.
The engine that was in my 226 is a 3034 not a 3024. I know the later 226 had the 3024 but mine is an early one.
I agree, SIS does call your engine a 3034. However the arrangement numbers you quoted also seem to be correct so the information above should be accurate. Notwithstanding, information in the early days on these small engines can be inaccurate so part numbers may match up somewhere. I'm afraid I don't have time to delve down that rabbit hole right now.
I appreciate the time you have spent thus far. I can actually see that some of the common parts are not on this list,such as the engine block itself,I am thinking that if the pistons,crank etc. actually are different,they should just be an upgrade to handle the extra 2025 or so horsepower produced by the turbo engine. Might just be hillbilly logic but that's what I'm hoping for.
What literature do you have that tells you that the blocks are the same?
I'm just going by the casting numbers,that's what a couple of used parts dealers wanted when I was trying to locate a block.
On the basis of wanting to convert the donor engine (Arrgt 147-1234) to the original engine (Arrgt 144-6194) the picture looks even bleaker than what CMark posted above. Even the block and the head are different. See attachment. Like CM, without going deeper into it (not being there is also a hindrance) the one thing I don't see on the remove/install list is the flywheel and the flywheel housing. So that opens up the possibility that the donor engine might mate up to the pump drive, in theory at least. Still would be a b*****d of a project though.
I can't see that there is a difference in the flex plate and bell housing. I guess I will just have to try my theory of changing the external parts that are different and see what happens.
I hope it works out. Be aware that typically when an engine is turbocharged, they usually run different compression ratios and cam timing vs a similar naturally aspirated engine.
Not to mention the fuel injection pump and injectors.
I am actually referring to the injection pump and injectors as part of the "external" parts. Now the compression and cam timing is another thing, I was hoping to find someone to lead me in the right direction on this.
I can definitely see how there would be problems if I were adding the turbo to the na engine.
Yes but are you not trying to convert the turbocharged engine from the 246 into a naturally aspirated engine for the 226? Its the same pricipal but in reverse. If the 246's engine was designed to be turbocharged, with lower compression ratio and different cam, it will not run very good naturally aspirated as it was designed to be boosted.
I know what you're saying, I am just trying to get some information on how to make it work, there has to be a way without changing much more than the feul,intake and exhaust, which is parts that I have on hand. The 246 cranks and runs at low rpm without much boost, I think that if I can't find anyone that is familiar with building these engines I will just put it together and see what happens. I am sure there is somebody that knows how to do this successfully.
I might try to kram the turbo engine in there,m m concern with that is cooling, the radiator looks smaller.
Reading back through the thread is making me think a bit. When both CM and myself were comparing the two engines we were comparing the latest iteration of each Arrangement Number, NOT the two engines "as built". The original engine for 5FZ01452, S/N 3NW05029, was built around November 1999. The donor engine, 3NW07330, was built around April 2000. Interesting to discover that 3NW07330 is NOT the original engine for 5SZ00661. The original engine was 3NW03836. I wonder what happened to that one..? By Build Date the donor engine is 147-1234 CHG01 (latest version is CHG10). The original engine is 144-6194 CHG04 (latest is CHG12). Comparing these two change levels improves things a bit as regards common parts, but I still don't believe the results 100%. The reason for that is that it still shows the cylinder block being different. But why would that be when the two engines were built within less than 6 months of each other and have the same 3NW-prefix.? That doesn't make sense to me, but I can only report the information that is shown on the screen. Attached below are the BOMs of 147-1234 CHG01 and 144-6194 CHG04.
The serial number could be off by a number or two on the 246 because the tags were in bad shape and I was having to guess a little but they are right on my 226 because it is still relatively clean and straight. Thanks for the update and the time you have spent on this.
Now I will ask this question,what do you fellows feel like will be the outcome if I take the feul, intake and exhaust system from the 226 engine and put it on the 246 engine?
I would not count out the idea that these engines could be very similar and the book wrong or confused. I believe this is the Perkins/Shibaura based engine with the IP in the block mounted at a 45° angle, oil fill cap near it, another oil filler on top that looks like a flower petal, etc? In my experience a lot of these small Japanese engines had no difference in compression, cam shaft, injectors, etc. between turbo and NA versions but I don't have the Perkins parts books to back it up. At the worst case you could lunch the new motor if the old injection system and timing is wrong for the arrangement you have. But it might run fine also.
The problem for you is that the information my research threw up is based 100% on the Serial Numbers of the two engines (original & donor) being CORRECT. Anything other than that an the info is not worth the paper it's written on.
Actually, I am pretty sure that the engine number is correct but not positive.
I wonder where I might find some literature on these engines? The NA engine has a sticker on it which tells what time it is set up for but the sticker is missing on the turbo engine.
The dealership network in my area is not real helpful and besides that, these are Cat versions which by no means have to have anything in common with Perkins branded ones other than looking the same. I'm just throwing general experience out there.
I think I am just going to shoehorn it in like it is, turbo and all.
I agree that's probably best if you can stuff it in. Maybe you can find a different manifold to mount the turbo in a different orientation if you need to.
I set it in place today. It looks like it will fit ok I will just have to fabricate my air intake line.
I know zero about skids, but will you still have room for the battery? Changing oil and filter ? Will door close flush? tight squeeze!
Yeah, it is not much different than the one that came out of it.
What about “the rest of the story? Did all work out as planned?
I have it set in but not hooked up,I actually live 120 miles from the machine and I have been busy on some other projects for the past several weeks,this one will be resumed soon.
that's incorrect,my 226 has a 3034 engine N/A.
I'm about to possibly sell/trade the turbo engine to a fellow with a 336 that has a good block and head. I'm going to use that block and some of the parts from my old engine and build up a N/A engine for the 226. Just too tight at the top for the turbo.
Yep your right it must have been the b models that started using the 3024