maybe you guys can help us all here in regards to using "nose candy" for start up! ive heard it said that it fries rings and pistons! others say ,you have no choice when working with worn out stuff! others say in real cold conditions ,you have no choice! others say it depends on if it is diesel or gas! i imagine its still a matter of how often, and how much! i know you guys who have to deal with this daily will give us all a good education!
Personally I think if you use it carefully and only as a last resort it can get you out of some cold situations....but if it is abused it can cause some serious damage. I think the real danger of it is that its burning uncontrollably(is that even a word) if there is too much put in...(somebody might correct me on this). If you've ever seen someone squirt too much in you know what I mean, the engines rpm skyrockets. Anyways when it comes down to it I keep a can lying around for those old girls that just dont want to get up on those cold mornings. My $ 0.2 anyways. Oh one more thing. I know alot of old CAT equipment had ether injectors installed on them(factory I believe) with a handy button right in the cab...I guess it all comes down to personal choice/preference. lynger
Starting fluid (ether) saves a lot of wear and tear on your equipment if used properly. There are many things to consider when starting a cold engine such as the condition of your batteries etc etc,location of the engine that needs starting,can you get near it to jump it if it needs it? The sooner that engine is running under its own power the better. Some engines with preheaters discourage the use of ether but if you have low batteries you might not have enough current available to crank the engine over after you preheat it properly.I have used ether in those situations too,the key there is to use very little.....I have found that less than you think you need is usually enough. There will always be the arguement that poorly maintained equipment is no excuse but in real world practice you will be faced with situations that require compromising solutions. The concept of "last resort" misses the point in my opinion.Ron G
I've always used ether on the old stuff thats nearly ready (if not over due) for boot hill. Now no doubt it doesnt get as cold here in Oz as it does in other parts but I try and shy away from using it because the old girls tend to get addicted to it real quick! Maybe its an engine's drug of choice.Cheers.
I have used ether for years on different engines with no detrimental effects. Our Champion grader has a GM 471 which needs a sniff first thing in the morning and while some say that GM’s must be worn out if they need ether, this one isn’t showing any signs of a worn out motor. It is also equipped with the cold starting ether canister, so the manufacturers must think it is OK to use ether. I have also seen some John Deere tractors out here, fitted with the ether starting aids, so John Deere must also think it is OK to use it. This brings to mind and incident that happened many years ago. We had an International AWD 7 farm tractor fitted with glow plugs and once the batteries got down a bit, it was really hard to start. There probably is a North American equivalent to this tractor, but I do not know what the numbers are. The shed we kept it in was on a hill, so in the mornings, we would heat it with the glow plugs, roll it out the shed, throw it in to road gear and jump start it. This particular morning it would not start and we had ran out of hill, so the old man sprayed some ether into the air intake and it still would not start. By now the batteries were getting pretty sluggish. I do not know who made the decision, but I tried the glow plugs again. Next thing there was a god almighty bang, the old man jumped about six feet in the air, the tractor was covered in oil, the built up ether in the air intake had exploded and blew the pan clean off the bottom of the oil bath air cleaner, sending oil everywhere. Needless to say, I did not do that again. Rn’R.
Well in my years of experiance starting fluid was a bad word...but it did get you out of a jam...old worn out engines and cold start.....but it does in fact cause a wiping effect in the cylinder....it wipes dowm the wall...i.e. oil is gone for a moment......
some now have top end lubricant in the can like Valvoline I just bought. I have used it for years on my JD's and Detroit when cold the machines have it built in so you don't use to much. Heavy hit with a can once in a while. Detroit is worn a bit and when cold it's no go without a HIT
I keep a can on my truck for when I need it...that said I have not gone through more than 2 cans in the last 2 years. I use it as a last resort only and most machines I work on start up just fine but it doesnt get very cold here in Southern California.
When used in small amounts in the cold when needed really does not hurt. When 2-3 cans are run through the engine at one time to get one started it does have bad effects on the engine. It usually does not get below 20 deg F here much, but I have seen alot of machines with factory ether injectors on them.
thanks for the come backs! i still wonder about you boys in minn. or alaska or canada! thats a whole different "kettleof fish" !
The biggest thing to watch , is to make sure you use it sparingly . If too much is used , it will ignite prematurely as the piston is on it's way up . This can break piston lands , bend rods and twist cranks etc. as the inertial of the flywheel/torque converter or clutch pack is not easy to stop . You know the sound of Detonation when too much has been squirted into an engine , we've all heard the knock . But used sparingly , i have found it a must have on ocassions .
nose candy so is the extra bang more hurtful on a gas motor then a diesel?and is its use more prominent up in the colder climates? or do the big stuff just get stuborn with age?: im just thinkin , the deere, cat, komotsu men arent tossin a can in at the sales close!!!!!!! lol
Here's the Aussie version....
G'day Rn'R, your AW7 story brought back some memories. We had the newer cousin to it , the A554 and had a similar thing happen exept we had been towing it. Lucky for us is wasnt the air cleaner, it removed the muffler in an instant. It was not long after that the crank broke in the middle. (they always were light on in the bottom end) They were certainly an engine that loved the ether. As for a US equivalent well I dont know if they could get one to start in their winter! Cheers.:drinkup
I'll bet there are a lot more stories that could be told, when it came to starting those old Inters, nextdoor. Ours was just an on going saga when it came to start it, especially on cold frosty mornings, Aerostart (ether) was standard kit. The early 554's from my understanding, were basically the AWD 7 opened out from 1,600 rpm to 1,800 rpm and a few cosmetic changes. Quite a few had engine problems and also rear end problems as well, they didn't seem to like the extra power, without being beefed up. When they were going, they were darn good tractors, pull like all get out, just starting them was the problem. Rn'R.
Real men use this starting aid
Funnily enough, the AWD 7 I was talking about, came with a crank handle, but they were an indirect injection, 4 cylinder diesel and it was all I could do, just to turn it over. Anyway, a bloke here had one of these tractors, he was a real big man and they reckoned he could start it with the handle. I don't know who squirted the ether in while he cranked. Rn'R.
i guess i feel better about the use of ether now! i know it worked real good in the potatoe gun i had years ago! lol!
I have seen people drive equipment for 100-200 yards to get it out of the way if it was OOS on a can of ether. Do I keep a can in my truck? Yes. Do I advocate its use? No. Do I use it when necessary? Yes. A lot of the newer engines, twin turbo cats, ddc detroits, and especially the mercedes are strongly against the use of ether under any circumstances. Alot has to do with the common rail injection stuff, while some has to do with the egr systems. It is necessary, but should only be used when you have to. and fwiw, I have never heard it called "nose candy". That comes in a little ziploc bag around here.
Ether is ok to use if you get the engine cranking first. That way it can possibly start building oil pressure so it wont dry the cylinders. Ether ignites at about 200 to 275 degrees so it can be bad on a diesel if not done right. Most IH diesels need to be started on it but they have the rings to do it. Cat diesels don't like it at all ( atleast the new series). I've seen too many broken pistons from it. Up here in New Hampshire it can get mighty cold in the winter (-20 is nothing to see in January) so alot of people use ether. If the engine is turning and a "snuff" is given it's not really that bad on the pistons and valves.
I can't verify the story, but a mechanic friend was telling a buddy and I a story about a dozer he was called out to work on. It was on a jobsite, and they said no matter what they did, it just wouldn't start. Well, appatently on his way over there, someone had the bright idea to spray 5-6 cans of ether into the engine.:jawdrop When our mechanic got there, he found a dozer with a good chunk of the hood blown off, and various piston, connecting rod, and bearing parts littering the ground, along with most of the oil pan. After the guy fessed up to his boss what he did, he was fired. As for our using it on the farm, we do, but not much. 2 of our diesels have the mount for ether on the tractor, and the one that doesn't has a manifold heater built in. Turn the key to right between the start and the accessory position, hold for 30-60 sec., and she'll fire right up in temps down to -20F.
ether start thanks for the replys guysssssssss, it still comes down to the situation, guess you would it different in arizona , then in canada!!!!!!
Hi guys, My experience with ether dates back many years. We had an RD7 with dozer, HD11 with dozer, HD5, RD4, 2 DW1O's, a P&H dragline, a tow behind Cat blade, a Ford chain drive dump truck, a lowbed and rubber tired equipment for the hay crops. The stock troughs had to have kerosene heaters to keep them from freezing solid. Anyhow very cold. The 2 AC cats came from the dealer with an injector system that held a plastic capsul about the size of a quail egg. Put the capsul in and hit a sharpened plunger and start cranking the engine over. They always fired right up. The 3 pieces of Cat equipment required ether, sometimes we had liquid in a can and sometimes in a spray can. Dad purchased it by the case, maybe 12 cans. The liguid was poured on a rag and held under the air cleaner on the Cat equipment so it took 2 people to start them. Dad was always the guy to apply the ether. We never lost an engine but of course ether is not foolproof. I always used tarps on the equipment that I ran to try to keep warm.
Either or No Either I had a personal experience with a Cat D8, on a farm I worked. There was no either to start the engine in -27deg F. The farmer said watch this, he had a tire pry bar in his hand. Then pulled a old shirt from his bag, dipped the shirt in the diesel fuel and lit it. He placed the lit rag, into the intake. I pressed the starter and woe and behold the engine made about five turns and fired up. There I would not be stuck in Alaska, in the middle of a frozen lake.
many years ago near 40 I saw a guy try to start a two cylinder mortar mixer with a crank. Result was he did something wrong and the crank near took his nose off his face, it was just hanging
Our 2007 Kenworths had a problem losing prime. Until it was fixed, the only way to get them running after a service was with a little "snort". I keep a can in the service truck and it came in handy when one of our drivers ran out of fuel 50 feet from the pumps. He was blocking traffic and when it wouldn't fire after filling the filters- I went to the can...
I came on a d8 with a leg out of bed due to the candy, what my old fella always said was to spray it in to the cleaner and then sit in and crank it, they always started with out any heavy knocks just the usual plume of white smoke.Have seen some David Brown and deere john tractors addicted to it though,even in summer they won't start first thing with out it, but that serves them right for owning the green eyed monsters.
Follow manufactures recommendations - some engines do not like it at all ( it may break em ) - some won"t run without it.
The trick is to use just a puff. You want the engine to go chug not knock. If there is a intercooler in the system it will take more cranking to get the starting fluid to the engine. Puff, crank untill the motor does something. If it does not chug long enough, give it a slightly larger puff and crank again. Don't spray until the motor does something, that is when things go boom.
I like many do not like either. I have found if you pull the air filter out of most machines light a small torch and stick the flame in the intake it will run like a top. I know it is a little more work, but it is much easier on the engine in the long run. I am talking diesel engines and you have to use some common sense as well. You don't want to melt the rubber intake hose.
Ether saves on starters. Up here in Canada where we see average winter temperatures anywhere from zero to -40F, we couldn't get by without a can of ether on the booster truck. Used properly, there's nothing wrong with it. Most common ether induced ailment is a blown head gasket (Deutz).......I've never seen an over-speed situation because of it. Less is better. A little common sense goes a long way. Make sure the cold engine is getting fuel and is free enough to crank over. If it's not cranking over and giving you some kind of smoke, loading it up with ether is just going to make things worse. In a perfect world, we'd never have to use it. But breakers trip, block heater cords become unplugged, propane block heaters run out of fuel, and if you need it running, it's either a little shot of ether or a new starter motor & drag it inside. I've tried using the starter motor to warm the engine block many times, but it's not working for me :beatsme I've never met a starter I couldn't smoke.
I use starting fluid for everything from lawnmowers to backhoe. It saves pull ropes to starters. However do you guys find differences in different brands of ether?
light a small torch and stick the flame in the intake it will run like a top Now thats a great idea!