I would like to open a discussion about couplers. I am talking about tool/bucket couplers NOT hydraulic hose couplers (maybe another thread for those later on). I would like to know what brand coupler/s you have, pros & cons (obviously in your own opinion), how they are holding up, and of course pictures will help us all to see why they might, or might not, be good products. I have a Bobcat 435 mini. Right now it has the manual coupler on it. This is only because the hydraulic one I have is in need of a rebuild. I like the ease and convienience of the hydraulic unit. The fact that I don't even have to get out, to change buckets, is fantastic. It makes bucket swaps quick and easy, and I never even think twice about wether or not to change out buckets. On the downside is that I don't think it holds up very well (the hydraulic one). As I said it is in need of a rebuild. This will be the third time in 2,500 machine hours, and the coupler has not been installed since the beginning. The front side has tabs (coupler) and engagement hooks (bucket) and the back has pins that extend out of the side of the coupler into the bucket ears (bushing lined holes like a pin on bucket). The manual one (also a Bobcat unit) works the same except that you have to manually drive the rear pin in or out. The pin is a dual taper design that has a smaller diameter over the middle of the pin (so that the full pin thickness is only where it needs to be). I think I prefer a standard pin on design over the manual coupler as the alignment demands are on the back of the bucket where you can't see from the machine. The old addage "A picture is worth a thousand words" definately applies here so I will try to get a picture, of both, today so you can see what I'm talking about. I would even welcome other experiences with the same coupler. Lets see, and hear about yours.
Mine is a geith on our mini its manual and works good as far as taking abuse but its not perfect first off when i installed it i realized they made it 1/4'' wider opening than needed so i had to put 1/8'' thick washer on each side of the boom which is a real pain because my auger only takes 1 pin and the coupler has to be removed every time and the washers add some hassle to reconnect, then theres the fact that it takes an 1 1/2'' socket and breaker bar to tighten and loosen the front claw that good because you never get slop bettween the coupler and bucket pins but the location of the 1 1/2'' bolt head sticks out to far and prevents you from digging a ditch from the side like a half pipe and glazing the bottom when you do the that big nut cuts into the sides and bottom of the trench packs full and you then have to claw it out with a screwdriver to uncouple. I guess its built good strenght wise but poor design on everything else . I didnt pick it i just told the dealer i needed a coulpler when i bought the machine and thats what they put on it but would not recommend geith at least for case/kobelco minis when i called and ask about all the side slop at the end of the stick they said 1/4 '' was quote (it meets our tolerances so if you dont want to hear it slam back and forth put shims in it).
In the Australian market, we are blessed with a huge assortment of local manufacturers who provide our aftermarket solutions from quick hitches, to specialty buckets, to specialty loader attachments. To give you an example, here's a 20th of the suppliers readily avaliable within 100km of our dealership alone. http://www.jaws.com.au/ http://www.turnerseng.com.au/ http://gtat.com.au/GTA/Home.html http://www.earthmaster.com.au/ http://ahe1.com.au/ In our market, there isn't an excavator sold without a quick hitch on it - even those buying used equipment often base thier decision around the machine having a hitch on it. As a result of this, in all my travelling over the world - I'd have to say our suppliers really set a benchmark in term of innovation and quality - simply because it's been this way for 30+ years. Safety is a huge barrier in the Australian construction industry, and these manufacturers have stepped it up by producing quick hitches with automatic safety pins which lock and unlock via the quick hitch button inside the cabins of the excavators. Essentially, you can change buckets without jumping out of the cab to remove the safety pin. Thus limiting activity around your stick. This has been a very popular innovation among the larger contractors, specifically those on pipelines where changing buckets is as frequent as blinking. I had one customer with his 45ton excavator changing buckets 1.8million times over 4,500hrs alone. The time saved on jumping in and out of the cab to remove and reinsert the safety pin alone justifies the expense of this type of hitch. Also, you'll notice on some of those webpages, that the supplier's also have a large focus on the mining segment in Australia. It's comforting to know that if you need a 1400mm general purpose bucket for a 20 ton excavator, a manufacturing facility that makesa 60 yard shovel bucket to suit a 550 ton excavator, should be getting the basic principles right. You'll find another reason for this is because each contractor ususally has thier own pickup which they desire on the quick hitch - meaning they may want the hitch to fit a PC200, but he has an exisitng array of ZX220 buckets where he needs the bottom of the hitch to reflect those pin, center and boss deminsions. Bringing in a factory hitch just doesn't work because of this - not to mention it's cheaper for us (as the dealer) to use locally made and supported products. My largest excavator customers all have hybrid quick hitches, I'd hazard a guess that maybe 5% use the same pickup as the brand which we offer. May be a bit irrelvant to what your asking, but these sites can give you some good ideas for the future.
I have had a Werk Brau mech. coupler on my last two TK 6 ton machines. I really like it. Its fast and secure and it was priced affordably. I have considered hyd couplers but at this point I cant justify spending that much money for the 1 minute I spend changing buckets.
I have a cp wain-roy style #27 on my tak 53... I don't like it. Crappy no penetration welds on the coupler. Machine doesn't have 400hrs. and the coupler is sloppy. The retention pin on the rear wain roy pin is always getting all bent up... I'm kinda lookin for a better coupler for the mini. On top of that, I ordered side cutters for my 24" bucket and they sent a piece of flat steel that was bent outwards about 15 degrees, with the holes drilled in, not counter sunk and with standard hardware for $150 + freight. No lip that braced of the cheeks of the bucket, all the weight would have been on three 5/8" bolts, and no protection for the bolt heads. I sent them back, a teenager in metal shop could have made them and dont a better job.
My 315CL has a Cat pin grabber and it's a great coupler. One of it's features is that it can grab multiple pin spreads (if pin diameter is same), and will allow backwards installation of the bucket (like a front shovel). Hydraulic activation (from in the cab of course), rear wedge design (stays tight at all times), and has been bullet proof for 4,600 hours. I would think that the biggest issue on price would be from the machine set up. Retrofit would be an issue for me (the expense of the hydraulic coupler) but for a new purchase I would think the expense would be worth it over the long haul. Do you have pictures that show how they work? Wayne Roy was the first coupler I ever saw that was available for backhoes and smaller machines. The became very popular in CA. I agree with you on their drawbacks. I never liked that the engagement area required welding to maintane. IMO this is why they are all (at least every one I have seen on a working machine) sloppy. The pin can be very stubborn to remove and the angle eliminates the use of a hammer to assist. I would rather have the conventional pin on buckets than one of these couplers, and when I bought my first (2) backhoes I bought them without couplers. BTW I have five buckets and a compaction wheel, for my backhoe, and I used to make a lot of bucket changes digging footings and keyways. Sorry no photos yet (been very busy trying to get work done before last nights storm arrived) and I don't think I'll get them today either.
1.8 million bucket changes in 4500hrs; that's one bucket change every 9 seconds, throughout the life of the machine.
I have the wedge style quick couplers on my machines, and they are the best couplers i have had, from my 710 to my 450d, aswell if you buy the manual you can convert it to hyd after wards http://www.weldco-beales.com/ProductDetails/tabid/75/Default.aspx?productid=6&category=1
http://www.gradocero.net/es/productos-gomax.php
Maybe they are getting paid to test couplers instead of move dirt. This looks like a good system but I can't tell how the safety lock (I assume it's equipped with one) works. I still prefer my pin grabber as I can always direct mount the bucket, and still keep working, if I ever have a failure on the coupler. I can't navigate the site. Me no espeakie espaniol.
There is english option,look at well it´s resistant and simple.
That weldco coupler has 2 springs in it to hold the wedge in, it only uses hyd power to take the wedge out, that wat there is no failure, it also lets you keep working... the older ones used to have a manual lock if you were concerned but they changed their spring design now so you dont have to manualy lock it.
I have esco, jrb, and cat. They all seem to work good. BUT! Quick couplers scare me. Remember to check and double check that tool is secure. As these couplers get old. Get rid of them.
Ignore me being useless at double checking what I write - it's 180,000 , not 1.8m. Not even close right.
Yeah the CAT coupler is what alot of manufacturers have used as a benchmark over here. In saying that, the genuine CAT coupler isnt the hitch of choice across most CAT machines here, local fit reins.
I'm seriously an idiot, its 18,000.
hahahaha some new offer? maybe 1,800 hahahaha
It's 18,000!!! I re-read the matris report. I was typing a quotation for $1.6m and at the same time reading this forum!! Proof reading was never my strong point!
It´s ok.It was a joke
I know I know!
Our sk160 has a jrb hydro coupler and far as i know could have as much 8000hrs on it machine had 5000 when bought although the slide plate is wore half way through now it works great the only problem i ever was employees keeping the bucket over the fire to long when feeding stumps and brush on the fire and burning out the seals in the swivel hoses . dont worry about the typos i often type words backwards like tac for cat probably a medical term for it nowadays could just be that 90% of my typing exp has been on HEF.
. Maybe I am just playing with peanuts. IMO that quote deserved your undivided attention
I have a cx50b Case with a WB coupler. It has a spring loaded jaw and a pin to lock it. I have switched buckets and dug without installing the pin, but dumping is a bit risky, as the bucket can fall off on the pile. It is the same width as the ears on my buckets, so clearance is not an issue.
Here is a quick coupler which lower the possibility of accident significantly. https://www.wdintlinc.com/attachment/quick-coupler-pin-grabber/ This is a self-locking quick coupler and guarantee hooking of bucket pins.
I have only used manual quick couplers, the John Deere/ Hitachi wedge style on my first two midis. I put an Amulet manual one on my Komatsu pc75uu2 It uses the factory bucket pin spacing. Hook the bucket and then hope out and shove a single pin in. No tools! The wedge style I always kept a wrench and a pry bar in the excavator. Amulets system has a little bit of play compared to the wedge, but I much prefer it for speed and ease of use n no tools. Amulet Calls it there minihitch coupler.
Oooh, now we are in my wheel house. ..JBHendrix...no longer in the states due to lawsuits. Grabbed one family only. Operated on pilot pressure (600-700 psi). Closed without curl stalling. Quite frequently had stuck check valve in cylinder. Replacement cylinders were only $400. ..Caterpillar pin grabber (Miller Bug)...Grabs multiple families. Operates on bucket curl relief. Gravity and spring assisted safety lock. Bolts continually lost on safety spring. Safety bar wedges on certain families preventing disconnect. When used opposite (beating with bucket heel, or shovel digging), cylinder would football ($2200-$3700, depending on size). Prone to cylinder packing disintegrating, resulting in jamming of control valve solenoid. Early solenoids had screens on spool, and screens would jam spool. ..Caterpillar Center-lock...Operates on bucket curl relief. Grabs multiple families. Visible safety latch over stick pin. Cylinder mounted in two two bolt saddles. Saddle bolts shear ($400 aside). Cylinder lines and check assembly external, resulting in cylinder damage when saddles break. Saddle arm pivots easily changed, but occasionally on 2 month backorder. Snap rings on safety jaw links prone to loss. ..New Caterpillar "wedge style"...only have one. Bucket curl relief actuated. Hoses loose from factory, and impossible to access without unpinning from machine. ..JRB Slide lock...Bucket relief curl actuated. One family only. No safety lock. Check and relief remote mounted. Outta time. Geith and, my favorite on 9 ton under, Strickland, to follow, as will Yanmar.
I've used the WBM wedge style for years both hydraulic and the two bolt mechanical ones. I always hated the mechanical ones bolts always loosen up and when you do get them tight you have to pound out the wedge with a hammer mushrooming the ends of the wedge. We have AMI wedge couplers on both machines where I work currently but they essentially use the same design as WBM just better steel than the last WBM coupler I used a few years ago where it seems like they've gone too a lower quality mild steel than what AMI offers. The boss got a quote for an AMI power wedge for the Kobelco SK210 we have and they wanted $15,000! So still got the mechanical one. We use tilt buckets on both our Hitachi 160 and the Kobelco 210 so build height is an issue otherwise I wouldn't mind a hydraulic pin grabber. I used a pin-grabber on a brand new Case CX210B a few years ago and liked it for the most part especially since you could reverse the bucket for getting in to tricky spots but the build height using a tilt bucket was an issue for me. And in recent years I've managed to try an Indexator Rototilt on a 5 tonne New Holland/Kobelco which I really liked since you could do everything a regular tilt bucket could do and reverse the bucket or put it sideways and use different buckets or attachments with it. And the pins are welded in place so they don't get worn and sloppy like regular pin-grabber set ups and now you can get them with the auxiliary hydraulics and even grease and electricity all built in to the coupler eliminating connecting hoses and in some cases preventing damage. We are currently looking at getting a new machine in the 16-18 tonne class and I think I've got the boss convince in to an Eng-Con or Indexator set up as the costs for acquiring a hydraulic coupler, tilt-bucket, 42" tooth bucket, and a frost ripper come out to almost the same with a lot less flexibility.
I'm kinda in the market for a mechanical pin-grabbing style. I don't mind swapping buckets, but when I'm cleaning irrigation ditches and clearing brush on access roads to do so, I'm swapping between a bucket and 36" brush rake several times a day. The brush rake has some weight to it, a quick coupler would save quite a bit of time and fiddling to get hooked up. Is there much loss of digging power (mechanical advantage) between a quick coupler and straight-up pin mounting? Looks like there'd have to be some, but I'm unsure how much difference it would actually make. I have a pretty broad spectrum of soil/rock types where I work, can go from pretty easy digging to pretty tough fast. With pin mounting, my KX161 with 24" severe duty toothed does a good job, but the 36" toothed has it's limits. I'm choosy about where I use the 36", as that is the outer limit of what that machine will comfortably handle on an average day.
I had a 161-3 with the Kubota style coupler and really liked it, put 5500 hours on that coupler with zero issues, it was a little wiggly when I sold it but not too bad. On the Takehuchi I have now, I opted for a Geith hydraulic pin grabber and LOVE IT! It may steal a little power from the bucket but the ability to pick the bucket up backwards and dig or place material is priceless to me. Also, it may sound lazy, but being able to flip a switch and swap buckets (which I do a lot) without getting out of the machine really makes me feel more efficient, even though you're only saving a minute or two. I have to say I would never go back to any other style coupler.
This is the system I'd like us to have and the pricing has been improving greatly in recent years.
There is some loss of breakout, I don't think that it is significant but obviously the more breakout to start with the better. Some couplers advertise zero lose of breakout, I believe Klack is one of them but I could wrong on the OEM. The other thing to remember is it may cause you to hit the boom cylinder with the bucket due to the increase length of the dipper stick. A major spec for me is bucket breakout force, for this reason specifically. The reduction in breakout is worth the convenience. I change from a hoe pac, breaker, cleanout bucket, and three different bucket sizes often. Pounding pins is just a waste of time.
To follow up on what KSSS said, a pin grabber coupler will DEFINITELY allow the bucket to hit the boom cylinder, you need to be very careful about that....
I have 2 yanmar excavators with quick couplers that came with them from the factory. They are great
Being able to flip the bucket around makes short work of installing the stone for footing drains, really don’t need to shovel much, I really like that part of it.
That TB 260 is a nice looking machine.
Before you know it you will be going for a tiltrotator and doing it sideways as well! Graham
I really wanted one. I was at the last ConExpo in Vegas when I was getting ready to purchase the Tak, I priced one one out but it was just too much to justify what I do with the machine....
They are great, but so expensive, you need plenty of the type work that it will save you time on or do away with a labourer to pay for it. It is amazing how much more efficient you make your machine with one, especially if you invest in a few attachments. Graham
They seem to be more affordable for larger machines I've done some pricing out over the last year or so and because we do use a couple different buckets and attachments its become a little more important for us to acquire a hydraulic quick coupler for what we do have. However AMI wants $15,000 CAD for a hydraulic wedge coupler and a new tilt bucket or a tilt attachment costs around $12,000-$15,000 for a 16-21 tonne machine. A thumb is around $8,000CAD, trenching or tooth buckets probably around $5,000 and probably the same for a ripper. It just makes more sense to just switch over to a tilt rotator system and not have to fight coupling hoses or tightening up wedge bolts and constantly carry spares and hand tools, replacement hoses and couplers. And if your on priced work it saves a lot more time and can eliminate some hand labour and even an extra machine.
I have a Werk Brau on my CX50B Case. I have a local welding shop that has cut side plates for adpaters and attachments on their plasma table. I use 1-3/4" hydraulic rod for pins that I get as cut off lengths from a cylinder shop. 2 chromed pins usually cost me $30. It's a difference on 1.5mm between the metric pins and 1-3/4". I use a 3rd pin adapter to hook Case loader backhoe attachments. I do a lot of concrete removal, so I change between a Stanley breaker, bucket, and plate compactor regularly. Attachments for Case loader backhoes are still quite common and can be found for reasonable prices around me on Craigslist or auctions. The WB coupler has a spring latch with a safety pin that goes thru it also. My WB buckets are all built to curl with the coupler, so breakout isn't a problem, and it has a second in hole, so you can move the dog bone pin, if you really want to.
I have access to a machine shop and it’s equipment for free Always making or modifying buckets, attachments etc
Hello, I am one of the mid-eighties’ pioneers of tilting and rotating attachments for excavators. All now known producer of tiltrotators choose for rotation worm gears. My choose were double high torque motors driving a slew ring with internal module 6 straight gear. Later I added integrated disc brakes in the motors. I have stayed with my rotation techniques because it gives a high torque and r.p.m. For a 20-ton machine 16000 Nm 20 r.p.m. In comparison with a worm gear rotor as due to bad efficiency quickly getting heated. My technique can rotate continuously with no problem. For example, driving a large diameter auger winching or other jobs demanding speed and Power 40 Kw. Never found sufficient finance to compete the worm gear tiltrotators. So, America this an opportunity for you. https://www.rolfsrolls.com