About 4" of 80mm pin stuck in a bore that is 1.5" thick, and 16 years to grow in. Three 1" bolts should give a guy about 30 tons of pressure? Obviously fine thread would be better.
I don't see enough sledgehammer marks there. Lots of hot wrench though. Did it snap off on that bolt side?
Oxylance is the way. unless you have to save the pin. I got one a coupe years ago. huge time saver.
Pin is fine other than the cylinder needs rebuilt. Progress.
Halfway out, and seems to have stalled? With half as much length, should be getting easier? What a PITA.
If you're beating and pushing on the pin it might mushroom just a tiny bit there in the bore and get tougher. Looking good though!
We didn't beat on it hardly at all, and when we did, we had a short chunk of pin the same diameter that we stuck in the hole. Otherwise, we've been pushing the whole time. Just cannot believe it hasn't started moving easier, and now we lost the threads on the pulling bolts
Cut the pin off as close to the face as possible. Get the cylinder out of the way and burn a hole through the Center of what’s left of the pin with the cutting torch. It will slide out easier then.
Don't cut it out. I would have put a hydraulic jack and pushed off the other arm. Using a jack and hitting the flange with a big hammer more than likely would push right out. If not add heat. If the jack required a lot of force weld a bar across the arms so that the arms don't bend apart. That pin would be out quick and easy.
We have been pushing on it with all the torque we can apply to three 1" bolts. Isn't that 30-40 tons of pressure? Also been hammering on the pin flange the whole time. We've also heated the pin boss up 2-3 times and let cool completely yesterday, and the applied just enough heat today to get the boss hot, but hopefully not the pin. We could tell it would start moving at just the right amount of heat, and basically stop when the pin itself warmed up.
I see that but your technique is not as good as a big jack actually the bolts don't even come close to the Same pressures. Trust me all I do is work on old stuff. Go ahead and weld the bar across it and give it a shot.
There is still 4.5" of pin in the bore. We don't have a lance, I'm not sure you can cut a hole through that much with just a torch.
I guess it depends on if you need to save the pin. It looks like it will need some build up at least.
Well that's not what I was wanting to hear. Pretty hard to rig anything to jack against, the scraper is 10.5' wide inside.
Pin is junk. Not worried about it in the least. Just want the fcuker out.
Can you put a big pipe wrench on the pin and turn it or alternatively weld a plate on the pin so you can beat it with a hammer to turn it? Might have a little lip catching and turning the pin to a different position will let it slide out. Maybe you could turn it while pushing/pulling and kind of thread it out past the stuck point. Maybe even weld a big nut on the pin and put your biggest impact wrench on it.
All ideas we've considered, but if three 1" bolts pushing on it won't push it, is there really any likely chance of it turning? We did try and turn on it with a 4' pipe wrench and 8' pipe. No dice.
Weld a simple cradle off the back side of the arm to hold the jack, if you don't have a piece of steel beam or pipe laying around. A heavy wall metal gate post would brace the jack just fine. Cut everything square and tack weld it on, you could even tack on a 45* brace if you see it try to move.
An oxygen lance is nothing more than a black iron pipe with oxygen hooked to it, and a way to start it. The exothermic torches just fill the pipe with wire for more iron, and add some ingredients to make it easier to start. For only 4" I'd drill a hole through that much, then a bigger hole, then carefully use a torch to wallow the hole out a little more, the heat will upset the pin, then shrink when it cools and should come right out. or sawzall it and drill from the flush end.
If it's hanging up on a lip turning it to a different position could help. Might have to pound it back in slightly since it's wedged solid against something. Thinking maybe there are bushings on each side of the boss the pin is stuck in and there is a space between those bushings the pin is getting hung up on. Just a bit of mushrooming on the pin is all it would take. If nothing works cut the pin so you can get the cylinder off. The pin may have to come out the other side. I recently put a ripper on my grader. I had to flip the ripper teeth around because they were in the transport position. On one shank the pins would only go in the thick bosses one way. Somehow the 1 1/2" pins were mushroomed on one side and wouldn't fit in the bosses. It was strange because the pins slid easily enough you wouldn't have had to beat on them. They were straight pins with no taper and used a cotter pin on each end. It seems like your pin may be slightly bigger on the stuck end or it has a slight bend in it. A bend could explain why it's so stuck. With the cylinder out of the way you could manipulate the pin any way you wanted including pounding it out the other direction.
No bushings. Solid pin boss. Pin has never turned in the boss. No chance of it turning now. Never have been able to pound it back at all. This is a 20 ton ram. It's not moving still. Going to put some heat to it again.
While heating cuss a little bit more..... it may not help but sure makes for stress relief on you. I feel for you. A lancing tool should be on your christmas list for next year.
I just cannot believe that it won't move after we've moved it 4 inches. Those pins are installed in that solid boss, it doesn't turn due to a lock bolt that holds it in. There cannot be any ridges or grooves holding it up. The pounding we did was minimal, and we used a short piece of shaft the same size as the pin, so it shouldn't be mushroomed.
If it isn't mushroomed maybe the pin has a slight bend in it and all the pulling has jammed it in the tightest possible way. That seems the most logical explanation to me. Cutting it may be the best option. With the pin shorter it's easier to drill and heat it to get it out. Cutting with a torch might be possible with it shorter too.
I would think you'd want to heat the pin as hot as you can get it and then let it cool completely. This should shrink the pin slightly. If you heat the boss, you'll want to keep the pin as cool as possible and push on it while the boss is hot. If you let the boss cool it'll just shrink back down tight on the pin. You either have to try moving the pin while the boss is hot, or heat cycle the pin so that it shrinks and then try moving it.
Same thing can happen on King-Pins, all it takes is a small amount of scale to wedge. Lance it or drill it as Delmer suggested.
I don't heat the pin only the boss
You said thats a 4" pin? Books say 10 ton per inch of diameter for standard fits, double or more for heavy fits. If it was mine, I'd burn the pin off next to the cylinder and then pull the cylinder off the stub pin. Then burn the rest of the protruding pin. Now burn a hole thru the remaining stump, or as deep as you can go and 2" in diameter. Once everything cools it should come out with your little jack. I'll bet you will find the pin has pushed a big booger and is cold welded to the bore.
4" is stuck in the boss. Pin diameter is 3", so still might take 30-50 ton theoretically. We moved it 4" with three 1" bolts, but the b@stard stalled.
If you don't want to burn the pin off, try this. Take your hydraulic cylinder out, and replace it with a solid steel pin. Use anti-seize on your studs, and hammer the nuts down tight. Now hit the plate with a 20# sledge. Keep chasing the nuts tight. Heavy construction nuts (A563) are better than SAE. If you have room, you could hang a heavy bar with 2 parallel slings choked on the bar. Now maneuver the bar so you can use it as a battering ram. In this manner you can easily use a nearly unlimited weight hammer. One of the advantages of burning stubborn pins out for starters is you don't screw up the parent bore when the pin galls.
This is exactly what we did, before we tried the cylinder. Until we wore the bolts out. Pounded on the plate, and beat on the flange all around as we were pushing. I'm not opposed to cutting the pin off, probably will do that in the morning.
I think terexherder has nailed it, it's cold-welded/galled in the bore, and you're going to need 100 tons to move it. 20 tons is good for nothing, I couldn't move Cat D4 1-1/4" track pins with a 20 ton cylinder, it took 50 tons to make them move, and they weren't galled. Cutting it out looks like the only choice to me. The advice from Delmer about drilling a small hole through it, then gas-axe through the hole (using a big tip) sounds good to me.
A burning bar, or lance would go right through it.
FFS, it's just ridiculous to me that a pin that has been just happy and cozy in a 1.5" thick pin boss for 15 years won't just slide it's ass out after the rust is broken. What size pipe will work the best to lance it? Is 3/8 too big?
Oxylance Sure Cut Tool Box Kit w/ Sure Cut Holder, Oxygen Hose, Welding Leads, 24 Rods and High Flow Oxygen Regulator (JRSC2024S-REG) Oxylance Sure Cut Tool Box Kit w/ Sure Cut Holder, Oxygen Hose, Welding Leads, 24 Rods and High Flow Oxygen Regulator (JRSC2024S-REG) allweldproducts.com Thoughts? Other than it will prob take a month to get?
Amazon has it in stock for $100 more, says I could have it by friday. I've been around the oxy lances, but never used one myself. I burned through a 3" pin on a detach trailer pivot pin that was bent, with a regular oxy/acy torch, but it wasn't pretty. That was after getting the other side with a welded on plate and jack, but one side wasn't coming- so it got the torch. After I got the hole through it, and most of it cut out, it came the rest of the way with the jack. Got a small divot going, and just kept working it in circles blowing the slag out in a river. https://www.amazon.com/Oxylance-System-G250-150-540-Regulator-JRSC2024S-REG/dp/B07HFGTHZQ
That is not a bad kit but you can make what you need easy enough. I've used 3/8" automotive brake line and stuff this with bare thin steel tig welding rod as tightly as possible without distorting the rod. Once you have the line stuffed, crimp it down a bit so the filler doesn't slide out. Affix an oxygen regulator and a simple ball valve after the regulator but before the burning bar. Light a cutting torch, and light the end of the burning bar with the oxygen flowing, (have to experiment with pressure) and the burning bar will stay lit. My Broco set uses about 60psi and does a very good job with 3/8 bar. Start your pierce in the center of the pin and work the bar in and out steadily and stay clear of the flying sparks and slag created. Look at youtube if you've never done this in the past. It is hot, noisy, and very dangerous if not prepared. Broco like I have:
3/8" pipe is not too big, you can stuff it with wire if you want, but a 10' piece of pipe should go through 4" of pin. I've never done it, chicken. And drilling the center isn't as bad as you think, the center is usually relatively soft. The pin might be bent, the boss might be bent, or it might have just taken that much travel to gall and seize. At this point, what does it matter
If the pin was cut off and you could drill even a 1/8" hole through it, then a cutting torch with a big tip would cut it like a hot knife through butter. A 1/4" hole would be the most ideal to blow the sparks through. If it's too hard to drill you could heat it up red hot with a rosebud even heating the back side that's stuck some. Once it's hot switch to a cutting torch and it should blow through. A cutting tip for 5" thick steel should be an off the shelf item. Heating it red hot and letting it cool could also make it easier to drill. This technique has been used for drilling hard cutting edges. An oxygen lance would certainly work but I'm not sure a pin like this should be the 1st attempt at using one. There's a lot of sparks and molten steel flying back at you. If you can get a hole through the pin you would have far better control and be able to see what you're doing much better with a cutting torch.
shimmy had the same problem a month ago on the top boom cylinder 225 Hitachi, cylinder needed repacked leaking all the time. pin would not come out its intended direction, so we got out has far has possible until it stopped about a inch then cut off the flange making it the pin size, then pushed it back the other way came right out, got cylinder rebuilt pit pin back in and welded A big washer where the flange was
Pushing it the other way was mentioned but sounds like it won't move either way.
only way, is to do it the way you said then
watched a mechanic use a big air jackhammer supported by another hoe to pound out a gaulded pin on a 349 once
mag base drill and weld on a lump of steel to stick it to and drill away. With the price of mag base drills these days, everyone should have one. So freaking handy.
I got this Chinese mag drill a few months back, for AU$251 (on special) delivered. I wish I had it years ago. It has about 180mm (7") drilling depth range, and it had no trouble spinning a 36mm (1-13/32") annular cutter through 50mm (2") high tensile plate. I drilled 8 holes in two 50mm plates in an easy 2 hours, allowing plenty of cutter cooling time. The magnet grip strength is excellent, and the unit even comes with a coolant bottle and feed hose into the centre of the driveshaft. I did break the chuck key handle attachment with my super-strength, though! Nothing that a dab of weld didn't fix! The original weld was only a relatively weak spot weld.
Have 2 tried a couple of strong whiskey shots?
I saw on Jpaydirt channel a while ago he lanced out some really rusted pins with a small set of lances. But I tried and could not find the video now.
Shimmy1 how where you turning the 1" bolts to apply pressure in your first photo?
Two 1" Milwaukee Impacts at the same time. My figures based on clamping load figures, and assuming only 1000 ft/lbs of torque, conservative numbers suggest we were applying 100 tons, which is in line with what you smart guys are saying won't be enough.
We are in the process of hanging our 55 ton cylinder. Not much else, we can't get a lance for 10 days, even on Amazon, and nobody around here does it except guys that are 150 miles away, and two weeks out. I am not going to attempt to torch it out, because even if we get this one I'm working on, we have 5 more to do, and before you start there is 8" stuck in those bores.
The man in the video needs a bigger hammer.
The 55 ton got it done.
How does the pin look?
Like the last two inches was the fcuker, and we didn't beat on it much at all, but might have been the problem all along? Maybe 5-6 swings with a 2" punch, and maybe 12-18 swings with a pin the same diameter fitted in the bore as a punch. Maybe since we haven't beat on this other one at all, it will not give us as much trouble. We are going to use the 1" bolts to push like before to get it moving before we try the 55 ton. Here is the pin.
Well that is disappointing. It seemed like we were just getting warmed up here with ideas to get it out. We had not even got started into the "factual" stories of when someone would say a long time ago they were told by their brother in laws how their uncle's, best friends, roommate said about someone who got out a stuck pin using some wacky idea, explosives or something. I thought we would have had another three pages at least.
Round 2. Started it moving with the bolts. Put the 55 ton in. Didn't want to move right away. Torch for about 39.5 seconds and we were off the the races. In case anyone is wondering, those plates are made out worn cutting edges for these pans. 15 minutes later. Obviously the limited hammering we did on the first one just about sealed our fate. Stay tuned for the next 4. Will be a week or more, have to finish this pan before bringing another in.
Nice ram. Clean the pins up and reuse them. It is amazing that the carraige did not push off the frame. Nice welding. I always seem to need to brace it more off the back side or other arm. I have bent the frame/ boss flange a little pushing off the other side.
I'm thinking about getting blasted tonight, just to celebrate. Maybe I'll just chase the wife around. Either way, I'm celebrating.
The ram is actually a jack that we took the base plate off haha. Like I said earlier, my calculations say that the three 1" bolts with 1000 ftlbs of torque is capable of 100 ton of clamping force. The pins are scrap. Not worn terrible, but they are only $169 for new ones. The bushings they go in are worn out, and they are almost $400. All three scrapers are getting cylinders resealed, new pins and bushings.
Smart ass. Did I let you down? You were hoping for 10 pages of misery? Lol
I've asked the mods if they could edit the thread title to include "Rebuilding Deere 1810E scraper"
More fun to come........
I was hoping it would get bad enough, that you would need that fire truck in the corner. But I'll live with the disappointment.
Story on that, I'm sure someone will ask. It was purchased new by our department in 1977. We upgraded it, and tried to sell it, but couldn't get a bid. The guy I work with and myself each decided to spend $2500 and buy it, he will use it during harvest, I will when I'm burning trees. It is a 1977 Ford F750. 389, 5+2. 9500 original miles.
I welded and rebored one of those hitches a couple months ago for a neighbor.
Done. And for the record I would have traded that pan in on a new one and dodged the bullet of all this grief you've put upon yourself. With all the money you're making, I'm sure you needed a write off.
Getting the pins turning will help in getting them out. The pins have a specific section that takes the highest force from the cylinder. It would only take a slight deflection for the pin to be basically locked in position. Turning them out of their locked/set position should let them come out easier. In a perfect world pins would slide in and out easily but that 1 time you ran out of grease and had to go a little longer without grease or grease wasn't getting all around the pin is all it takes. That's why auto lube is great where it's practical.
Meh. I'll spend about $15k in parts, and maybe 3 weeks in the shop, and have 3 scrapers that are 95% of new. So, give or take $20k. New ones are $135k, and I don't think they're as good. Thanks for the title change.
These pins are FIXED in these bores. They never turn, are never greased. The rotation happens between the pin and cylinder rod eye, the bushes have enough wear to justify replacement, minimal wear on the pin even. Cylinders need resealing. But since I'm putting new bushings in, they are getting pins.
Getting penetrating oil or some kind of lubricant on them and turning them in the normally dry bores would help them come out easier. The gouges in the pin are too far down for it to be from mushrooming on the end of the pin. It's like the pin was galling in the bushing when it was being pushed out.
The way those pins are cantilevered they have to be very tight in the bores. If they start to work they will fail quickly.
Are you hinting that I am not going to want to do a bunch of work to those bores before putting new pins in? I was planning on honing the bores out good and clean, greasing them well, and possibly plan on pulling them every winter to keep them semi-free? Something is telling me that I prob shouldn't do this....
Clean the bore up with solvent and scrubbing, then I'd only sand any spots that are obviously galled, gouged etc. I would use grease putting them back together, then paint the other end shut. To me, that pin looked like it was rusted tight on that end, then eventually galled and seized on it's way out. Just what I'd do, I don't see any force that's going to rotate those pins, they shouldn't work loose, but you don't want to make them sloppy easy, just not galled the next time they have to come out.
Something like dry graphite spray on the pins and bushings could be a good idea as it won't attract dirt and grit. Might be good to try the pins in the bushings without the cylinder installed and check they will turn. They can be a tight fit but you shouldn't have to force them in. If they won't turn are more likely to be a problem removing in the future.
This project has me thinking. Is this something more likely to kill us or come in handy? https://www.amazon.com/AME-13000-Stroke-Aluminum-Jack/dp/B00JK4G088
For the odd use I'd see if I could rent one.
AME Intl sell all Chinese products. If you're happy enough to buy and use Harbor Freight tools, then by all means, purchase the AMT 100T jack. I've got one of the Chinese hyd bead breakers, identical to the AMT unit, it works just fine for my occasional use, but I wouldn't buy one to use for making a living out of tire repair work. If you want a 100T jack with real quality, then you buy a U.S. made brand-name product - Enerpac or OTC. You can easily acquire parts for the U.S.-made equipment, but with the Chinese product, you're on your own when it starts to leak, or something breaks on it. Just keep in mind also, that hyd jacks are built to operate standing vertically, and if you lay them down, you need to keep the pump on the bottom side.
This ram uses a separate air-operated pump, so it's basically being used as a porta-power. This only has a 2" stroke, but for a situation like I'm using it, that would probably be enough. https://www.grainger.com/product/ENERPAC-Hydraulic-Ram-Single-Acting-4PU63
The specs say, "Enerpac - country of origin - China"?! At $2000+, then, someone is adding enough markup, to put down a deposit on a new Lamborghini!! I've got a genuine old U.S.-made 150T two-way Enerpac ram, and it too, only has a 2" stroke. The problem is, it weighs 65kgs (143lbs), and you just can't manhandle it into position anywhere, it has to be craned into position. It's a massive size. I've thought about selling it, but sure as God made little green apples, if I did - two days after I sold it, I'd guarantee I'd immediately have a need for it!
shimmy aluminum would be the cats meow, do you like the thru hole design ? picked these up on ebay 75 and 100 came out of a coal mine in Wyoming under 400 a piece
I'm not sure what we like right now. Just asking because I like to have the proper tooling when doing these projects. I can't find the I.D. on these hollow rams. A guy just uses a chart for tensile strength when rigging these things? Where does a guy source tool grade materials? Say 1" or 1.25" fine threaded? Something tells me that standard 1" threaded rod is not gonna be strong enough to pull on with even a 50 ton ram.......
Yeah, that does not happen and is not an option. If we need this type of tooling, we buy it. That's why I want to buy the right stuff.
Check McMaster Carr for the threaded rod in better grades. Ed
As far as aluminum, that kind of thing shouldn't get handled very often, so using rigging to lift it isn't such a big deal. And you'd have to be a pretty strong boy to be able to handle that thing overhead anyway. If it was me, I'd stick with steel all the way.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K7L76NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 I got mine off amazon a year or so ago. 30t and a 60t with air foot pump. Got everything for around $900. the hollow rams are nice for pin pulling.
Have you used those enough to know if they are actually standard tons, or metric? A 30T if metric would actually be 33 tons in our world.
It looks like a copy of an Enerpac cylinder. Not sure if it would use common seals or not. Most big tools like that are readily available to rent here pretty reasonably. I rented a 1" drive Milwaukee cordless impact wrench for $50/day and I think the socket and swivel was an extra $25 for both. It came with 2 batteries but I only had 8 bolts to tighten. Would have cost over $1000 to buy everything I needed but I wouldn't use it enough to justify the cost.
Of the 4 cylinders I've disassembled out of the 15 total, 3 of the 4 had red Locktite on the piston nut. The first one we didn't know it, and destroyed the rod trying to remove the nut. Since then, including the one today, we applied heat with the torch and the nuts come off ok. Question is, I have never used red Locktite, or any Locktite for that matter, on a piston retaining nut before last year. Do we go back on with red? Blue? None at all? What say you guys? The last two we did use blue, because I know that comes free without removing the threads, but I want your opinions.
I'd use red if they originally had red. Piston nuts typically go a lot tighter than standard bolts and you don't want them coming loose. If you know it's on there then you know to heat it up to remove the nut. I was looking at Loctite and noticed certain types are only good up to a certain bolt size. If you have bolts or nuts over an inch check that the Loctite is good for the size of thread you have.
Here is what I use for pulling with my 60 ton hollow ram. These are Williams Form Engineering 150KSI all thread. It is used for rock and soil anchors. The coil thread thread form is more tolerant to rough treatment. Be aware the listed size is smaller than the actual diameter. The one shown is 1 3/8, just fits in a 1 1/2 hole. Hollow ram cylinders are used to tension these rods after installation when used as anchors. That rod is good for a 75 ton ram.
No cylinder I've ever rebuilt has been loctited. And I've never put it on when reassembling. Do you think the cylinders are still factory, or have they been rebuilt? I get the hardened threaded rod instead of soft all thread when making up pullers. You should be able to get some from your truck parts supplier, if they make u-bolts. and then the thicker nuts that they have for them. Like this stuff: Center Mark Grade 8 Threaded Rod U-Bolt High Nuts and Washers I would imagine anything for Shimmy1 to rent is a big drive away.
I'm not sure how close he is to a bigger rental house. Just seems like renting would be a good option for something that costs over $1000 and isn't used very often.
120-175 miles. Renting specialty stuff like I'm looking for is really not an option. The big impact, and stuff like that, I already own, because we use it pretty much monthly, sometimes more, and virtually daily in the shop during the winter. I really don't know if there is anywhere in this state that would rent out a 100 ton ram, much less a 50 or 20. The only guys that have that stuff are dealers, and they don't loan tools. I'm not a renter anyway, unless it's a $20-60k machine that I need once a year. Spend a grand or two on a tool that I know I'll use a few times a year, shut up and take my money, because that day will always come when you have a breakdown where that tool more than pays for itself in one job. Tools are never a bad investment.
One vote for red, one vote for none........
SPX Power Team is another good brand.
The red would give peace of mind it wouldn't come loose and you could mark the nut so you know to heat it before removing. Heating is easy and isn't hot enough to hurt anything.
Depends on the manufacturer. Hitachi requires it on some of their cylinders, most don’t. I know that doesn’t help, I’d personally call a cylinder shop and see what they say.
on the rod on thru holes I try to use four footers, for different applications, stay away from fine thread its forever to get off. use what terex said, or check out acme thread and acme nuts its lightning fast, on and off, and you won't find a stronger thread, handles dirt and gunk without jamming
Harbor Freight jacks are definitely, not made for the long run. I consider them to be a one time use item. Out of 4 jacks that I have purchased from them they all stopped working fairly quickly. The first 2 were returned for new ones. The last 2 were kept inside and they stopped working within about 2 years. They last time I needed them I did a basic test before transporting them into the field. They seemed fine and moved up, once i got them 3 hours away to the loader they would pump up a few inchs but then settle back down. We also have several American made jacks which lasted 10 to 15 years the rebuild kits for them cost as more than a new harbor freight jack.
I have enerpac, simplex, and otc, couple cheap vevors, any body try temco have there hydraulic over air pump it works good, they have a five year warranty. there is a 60 ton rebuilt on ebay 300 its only a four inch stroke though.
I have two temco toe jacks. One works great, the other one is kind of dicky. It won't release down consistently. I didn't know they had a five year warranty, I'll look into that. I just usually smack it hard with a three pound hammer and it will start to let off.
that rebuilt one on ebay is 380 not 300,but a brand new one is 570.00, it said 5 year warranty from an American name . NON-GENERIC what is that ? sounds fishy
I can recall about 25 yrs ago, when there were businesses that still repaired jacks (they're nearly all gone now) - I called into a hyd jack repair business to inquire about re-sealing a 12 ton Blackhawk jack I owned. Behind the counter there was a pile of virtually new Snap-On floor jacks. Upon questioning the shop owner, it turned out Snap-On had got them made in China. But the Chinese had fitted cheap-a** seals and o-rings - seals made from hard PVC and o-rings made from raw rubber - instead of the proper seal and o-ring materials, such as nylon, teflon, urethane and NBR. Every single one of the jacks was under 6 mths old, and had been returned under warranty to be repaired with decent-quality seals and o-rings. It was costing Snap-On a fortune, the shop owner told me - and it was obviously one of those deals where Snap-On had left the QC and the meeting of materials specifications, entirely up to the Chinese manufacturer, without any Snap-On management oversight. A hard earned lesson for Snap-On.
I would be surprised if anyone at Snap-on even thought about the situation after a year.
The 60T will break the 1" grade 8 treaded rod from McMaster-carr. It takes one heck of a good anchor point on whatever is being pulled. I don't really have anything to compare them to.
This is a 10T ram pulling a 1.75" boom telescoping cylinder anchor pin on a manlift last summer at my shop. The 3/4" grade 8 rod, and nut from McMaster did well. Couldn't use a lot of heat in the area of the frozen pin that ran through the base of the cylinder because the counterbalance valves were right there on the underside and out of reach. A 10 ton ram was not enough pulling force by itself but a little persuasion via 12# sledge on the other end with a drift helped.. Once that pin broke free, it removed fairly easy by tapping with a hammer and drift from the other side. Not a grease zerk one and the owner said it creaked and groaned every time the boom was actuated. Stuck pin: Drift to pound on: That pin was rusty it's entire length. I had the machine shop open the hole and bush the bore back to the 1.750" dimention and fitted a new pin. It worked silky smooth when going back together.
More fun. She is 2/3 of the way disassembled. One of the gate cylinder pins really tried our patience. We rigged the 55 ton ram, kept steady pressure on it for 5 hours. We heated it, let it cool, heated a second time, let the red get out and then I wrapped it as best I could with wet paper towels, and kept them saturated with ice water. After we figured it was as cool as we could get it without wasting any more time, we fired both torches up and focused on one side, trying to get a smaller area red instead of warm the entire pin boss. As we were heating, we were hitting the pedal on the air pump to make sure we had full pressure in the cylinder. I was about 1 minute from calling it quits when that damn pin finally gave, jumping about a 1/4" in one go with a bang that made us all pucker a bit, and we had it on the run. Pulling the tongue off tomorrow.
Making progress. Not much to see here other than there isn't much more we can take apart.
Got the last two pins pushed out today. What seems to work the best is two torches, heat everything as hot as possible with BTUs available, then go home for the day. Next morning, get cylinder in place, pressure up, and fire both torches up. Concentrate heat on one side, about a 2" band. Keep tickling the pump to make sure cylinder is maxed out. About the time you're ready to give up, that stupid thing will pop, move about a half-inch that first time with a bang about like a pistol shot and scare the **** out of you. Keep pumping and you'll get it on the run.
A short list of things we've done between the three so far. Re-pinned and bushed hitch assembly. Rebuilt cylinders. Re-bushed cylinder bosses. Re-bushed tongue to main frame pivot points. Rebuilt gate cutting edge, including structure. Replaced pin bosses for gate hinge. Straightened and reinforced ejector slide rails. Rebuilt ejector tail rollers. Tightened wheel bearings. Built custom masts for GPS. I'll get some pics tomorrow. I thought I knew pretty much all there is to know about these pans before this winter. Straightening those ejector rails was pretty simple, and satisfying because we added a brace that my 2008 model has that neither of the other two did.
This showed up about a week ago. We were hoping not to need it, because we weren't sure that three 1" bolts would hold. But, it'll be in the arsenal for the next time.
let us know how the aluminum holds up, should be sweet, way lighter. see your running the flat track cats to pull those units, good rigs,bullet proof trannys, don't make them like they used to. just think how many yds those pans have pulled in there life time. might not exceed what's in the dam at fort peck but I am sure its a bunch.in the right dirt there is no better way to move earth!
My confidence in the decision to run these tractors is starting to slip slightly. I have been hearing bits and pieces of parts for the differential not being available. A guy I know ran his 85 out of oil in the diff. Spent $32k and needed to find a bunch of used parts to complete the repair. Couple years ago I had a tension cylinder leaking. I inquired about buying new parts and building one to have a spare, since I couldn't buy one complete. I was informed that the only parts I could buy for one is seal kits, rods, and some other bits and pieces. Cat has also quit building drivers and idler wheels. I'm not sure what I'll be pulling these pans with in 10 years, but it won't be a quadtrac.
Time to start rolling your own. Tracks from this, engine from that, transmission from there, cab from here, next thing you know you're getting calls from other guys wanting one.
Who wants to fund this project?
It's not that hard to do - a number of Australian guys built sizeable numbers of "home-built" tractors that were laughed at by the highly sophisticated Red, Green and Yellow tractor manufacturers - but these locally-built tractors got good support from their buyers - and their sales bit into the big brands sales. These local tractor names are well-known to Australian farmers - Upton Tractors, Phillips Acremaster, Waltanna, Baldwin, Chamberlain. Unfortunately, they all died out, due to either problems with sourcing components, pressure from the big American manufacturers, or from simply being bought up by the U.S. manufacturers. There's a real need to simplify tractors today, and to get away from the ever-increasing requirement for factory technical specialists, and specialised equipment to repair them. The Green tractor manufacturer has gained no friends amongst its end-users with their claims that their electronic technology is patented and cannot be worked on by independent repairers, changed, or replaced with aftermarket parts, without the Green tractor company effectively cutting off the tractor owner and leaving them stranded. It will blow up in their face eventually, I don't think they have even started to understand the level of anger amongst owners who cannot do anything to their tractors, without manufacturer approval. As one tractor owner stated, "I bought this tractor, I own it, I should be able to choose how I repair it, modify it, or do what I like with it, without facing manufacturer threats of lawsuits or withdrawal of support and parts supply". The main problem with building your own tractor is ensuring continuity of supply of engines and drivetrain components. With electrification increasing, this will lead to many manufacturers abandoning the manufacture of transmissions, and maybe even diesel engines, within a decade or two.
I wanted to start a KW/ Peterbilt salvage yard 25-30 years ago. a freind kind of talked me out of it. I wish I had done it. Looks like a good job on the scrapers, should last a very long time.
Looking good how come you won’t run quad tracks with those pans. Also keep an eye out at auctions or ag listings here in California for farmers getting rid of their older challengers
Reliable Quads cost twice as much to buy, twice as much to maintain, and my guys hate running them.
Gotcha I think you should just get a few big buds or some Steiger tiger cats with the 525 in them and let them eat
Rebuilding gate #2. Removed all the damage, next week put it back together.
These bushing bosses had been replaced before, but were not replaced correctly. They are now.
The rails that the floor rollers travel on were squashed out at the end. The replacement rail was $350 for a piece of steel 2.5" wide, by 60" long, by 1/4" thick. It must have titanium in the alloy. We used about half of it, one of the other scrapers needs the same repair.
Shimmy can you take a pic of your welder setup with the suitcase on top, looks like a nice setup. thanks
It's nothing fancy really. Just a crappy little steel cart I found for $65 on the same sale we got the 304 on, there were two more I should have grabbed. It's just the right dimensions to have the 304 on the bottom, the plasma on the second tier, and the suitcase wherever it works the best. We've welded angle iron on to hang grinders, pegs for this and that. It's kind of crude, but the small footprint allows it to be pretty mobile around all different kinds of obstacles.
how is it going out there you have those slips, moving dirt yet?
The aluminum jacks are super nice. Really a lot more light weight. The only issue I have had with them is that they will side load a bit easier. You have to be right under your load. I wouldn't use it if it was just 1/2 under the edge of something.
Nope. Won't until mid-June. I have a farming commitment each spring, and I prefer to stay out of dirtwork until the ground has settled back down anyway. The frost can really make a guy look stupid.