hey guys. I have a new rural driveway I need to get some finer rock on now that spring as sorta sprung and was wondering if reclaimed asphalt would be a good idea. Seems like it would get less goopy in the rain and would pack down nice, but I am wondering if it would get too packed down to the point I will have a tough time blading it... Anyone have an opinion on it over good ole class 5 or 3/4 with fines?
We have recycle on our driveway at the shop and it works great. It has packed down just like regular virgin blacktop laid with a paver. The trick to it is to get it hauled in and graded out on a hot sunny day and compact it until you think you are done then compact it some more. I use a backhoe in the winter to push the snow off of it and it has nor hurt it one bit. Also there is very little dust in the summer and there is no mud in the winter. I highly recommend it.
This is the best pic I can find of what our lot looks like. That is all recycle and as you can see it is smooth, no ruts, it is packed down just like blacktop, and it will carry a load quite well. There is about 6-8 inches of recycle on the ground in that pic.
I would reccomend RAP in a second for a rural driveway. It binds great and if you have a way of compacting it well after the initial grading, there will be minimal grading needed. As for any needed grading it would depend on what type of machine youll be using to grade.
ive built lots of roads and few large parking lots using it. and I havent had one person complain. its cheeper to do than asphalt and it can be regraded if need be.
I agree heartily, I have used it several times, driveways, store parking lot, and a large trailer park. They are all doing well. BTW, Plowking, I think you have one of the top five signature lines on HEF
Thanks for the encouraging replies! I have an old 50's vintage Austin Western blade to grade it off with. Not sure if that would cut it after its packed or not. I don't have any heavy trucks or anything I am going to be running over it, so I would expect grading to be minimal from what you guys are telling me, I just don't want to have to go rent a planer if I get a spot that heaves or something. What size roller do you think I would need to pack it? I don't have access to any rollers and would have to rent one or have someone with one come out. The base rock is well packed. its 4 - 6 and 1 1/2" thats been down for a year and a half and has seen 1000 yards of fill in overloaded quad axles across it with no heaving, so I think the base is in good shape to be covered over.
thank you, but i cannot take credit for it, I got it from a bumper sticker that was on the back of a tack truck at a paving company that i worked for. it is a true statement.
works very well, but it also depends on the source of the supply also... straight off a milling job is the better stuff.. Now the stuff from a recycle plant usually has dirt mixed in with it... sometimes a little sometimes a lot. we have used it a lot as temporary paving at construction sites, with and with out a fabric base. If you do buy from a plant make sure you get the asphalt only recycle. One plant here now has three grades. 1 concrete or tensar rock. 2 asphalt millings. 3 a combo of both concrete and asphalt... number 3 being the cheaper, don't get that one, your cost savings will be ate up by flat tires as it could have bit of mesh wire from the concrete in it..
I need to do this for my church in central Fl. Maybe 240 yds. What should my cost be? I can grade it my self.
i think asphalt millings are toxic waste
From what I've seen the stuff works great. People around here like it so much now the price is going up. Good Luck!
What I have heard has already been stated but I'll repeat. Do it on the hottest day and compact it and do it again.
Dang, and here I thought this was gonna be the first ever HEF thread with no dissent.
Agree. We put it down with the paver. Works great.
spread it out smooth, wet it down, then pack it real good. it packs even better if you wet it first. as stated, do it on a nice hot day. great product for driveways- far better than gravel.
What do I want to pack it with if I go this route? I would be putting down 6 or 8 inches of it... I am thinking a little one ton roller might be too light?
I just rolled it with my truck. It took a cocktail or two to get it all but that's ok. You may want to go with two lifts if you want to place that much or you won't get compaction. I think paving companies don't even like going more than 3 inches or so when they want good compaction. Do it right and you'll be very pleased with it. Good luck!
How is it after it is packed down? Is it clean? Or do you get an oily runoff that you would track into house/garage and make a mess.
I love it. If you walk on it when it's wet you may track in a bit, but you do that with gravel too. It has cut way down on how much sand gets brought into the garage from the wife's car. It's not like you're leaving black footprints behind you- some people think that's what it would be like. What I'm talking about is when it's raining, I come inside, wipe my boots on the nearly WHITE rug and leave a little black on it. Shouldn't have a light colored rug anyway but that's another discussion.
RAP makes a great driveway if they are *good* millings, not from shoulder work. Using water to compact millings does nothing. Grade and compact, then on a nice warm sunny day, take a garden sprayer with kerosene and spray the surface. doesn't take a lot. The kero (or diesel) will soak in and "reactivate the tar" and will harden better. I did a basketball court this way in 1984 at my parents house. Its still there to this day. Did a friends driveway with it too many years ago. You can use a little sand on the top to keep it from tracking/lifting (it will for a few days afterwards). I've worked for a paving contractor for 23 years, and millings are like gold here. Can't get my hands on it anymore.
kerosene please tell me why when i use millings and we put water to it and roll it it turns out like blacktop. if water does nothing what it making it do this. i have never heard of kerosene.
I'll just add my two cents of caution here... if it is wet or doesn't get covered with an impermeable surface and it is being placed directly on clay, it won't set very well and end up pumping and be more of a PITA than it is worth.
That's why we put fabric down on some jobsites Never heard over the kerosine before, gas and oil does make a mess of asphalt .. it think a little would go along way.
I would have to argue about whether water works or not. I did half of my driveway with and half without- BIG difference. Material came from same pile (consecutive loads). I loaded, hauled, spread, graded, and packed it all myself. Can't get a more accurate test than that. The first time it rained after I was done, the half that didn't get water-packed looked like it was letting the rain soak in. The half that got water-packed was shedding the water off the top. As soon as it started raining you could instantly see where one load stopped and the next started. I had a bunch of people over for a party and when the rain started, they all said hey- what's up with your driveway- half of it looks different! It definitely works.
I also have to agree with not putting it directly on top of clay. You should have a good gravel base under it first.
Thanks for the continued replies. In my case it would be going over 1 1/2 and 4-6" base. Pretty solid
I'm not going to argue with anyone on the subject. What anyone does with there time, energy, and water is their buisness. As I said, i've worked with the stuff for over two decades, and i have seen what is worth doing and what is not. Next time you get some millings, take 2 five gallon buckets , fill one with wet millings, and one dry. Stomp on them till your feet bleed if you like and set them in the sun for a week of two. try to dig it out of the buckets, and note your results. Won't be any difference. Not trying to be a smart@$$ at all xcvtr7. We have put it in with graders, ran it through the paver etc., and never used a drop of water on it. we have put it down in the rain, and never gotten any better compaction. Kero or diesel doesn't make it compact better, just the opposite, it will soften it. Its bringing the asphalt cement 'back to life" and with the sun lets it knit back together. Sorry if I seem a little touchy tonight guys, first day back to work today and guess what, 12 hours of milling today.
RAP Question.? I have always thought this would work, say you are trying to pave a small driveway with RAP on a hot day. Would it help any to lay out the asphalt, grade it and then cover it with black plastic for a coupla hours to heat it up before rolling. I have cooked hot dogs with some tin foil and black plastic over it on a hot day but never checked the temp before. Just an Idea.
kerosene or diesel does it matter if it is disel or kerosene? i will try this. as i am all ears to anyone that has a better way of doing things ot a better method. how much to apply per1/4 mile? or whatever figures you may have. we have a road we put in last year. just about a mile, all millings turned out bomber. maybe i will go check out the back of the job with a test section to see how this works. very interesting indeed.
"take 2 five gallon buckets , fill one with wet millings, and one dry. Stomp on them till your feet bleed if you like and set them in the sun for a week of two. try to dig it out of the buckets, and note your results. Won't be any difference." Oh come on now- that doesn't sound even close to what I was writing. I only wet the surface before rolling it and it sealed the surface far better. I see in one of my quotes I made the mistake of saying water helped in compaction- I only meant in sealing the surface- let's be civil here.
I didn't mean to get off on the wrong foot with you xcv, but don't say I'm being uncivil. Do the bucket test... full, half full, three inches in the bottom...or not at all, I don't really care. You seal the surface BY compacting. I only quoted your post for a generalization for my post, not to single YOU out. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.... not my intention.
We use it a lot for field entrances at KDOT. Used to be able to get it easily, but now we have to fight the contractor for any scraps left over.With money tight they are using asphalt re-cycle quite a bit. If it is pretty fresh. just spread it out and roll it and roll it and roll it. You can roll it with a truck or motor grader. If it is pretty old, the oil tends to wash out and then you have mostly loose stuff that still works for gravel it just doesnt pack as good.
I have it in my driveway all 950' of it and it is the best thing since sliced bread. But just the way teeth wear when cutting it, the millings vary so much you can't tell anyone what they will end up with. I have been running a mill for over 30 years aand I have seen all types of asphalt. It all depends on the quality of asphalt you start with. Some is dead, wore out and ready for the scrap pile and some is like new and ready to set up tight without any help. It also helps if the guys doing the milling slow down and make finner rap. Like everything else "so many variables and so little time". Ask the guys doing the milling what they think of the material and if they are honest and you have a six pack they might just tell you. Thats the way we used to do it now days you might have to offer a case after work to grease the wheels so to say. Anomalie
Spend the extra money and get unwashed limestone if you have access. I had asphalt millings and recycled concrete and have used them for 30 years in contracting, it doesnt hold up . I wont even pour concrete on this stuff no matter how you compact it . I have a 300 ft drive and used it for a base and it is not stable . I put limestone over the base and have no problems at all . I have driven over the limestone for 20 years and only have to refresh it about every 5 years.
Not that I want to argue but read what I said: Some is ready for the scrap pile and some is like new. As a matter of fact I didn't compact it at all. I just spread it out and the sun did the rest. It was asphalt that came from I-75 at Gaylord the top 1 1/2" of like new pavement. It was real good stuff and we slowed down an made it fine. Where I live I am right by Calcite the largest open pit lime stone quarry in the world - the sign says any way., and Stone Port a quarry run by Bethlem Steel or used to be any way. Calcite used to be US Steel now it is Olgobie Norton I believe. (Spelling I don't know about) If it was not good live asphalt it is not worth hauling but if you walk on it and feel it knitting together it is good. Like I said before some people are not happy if you hang them with a new rope. I have used lime stone and it doesnt hold a candle to RAP. Now that is good rap not just any rap. I have milled for 30 + years and I know what good rap is. You might think you do but I know I do. Not much else but I do know about Milling and Rap. If you go cheap on it. It will not last put on 8 " to a foot thick and it will last and if you ever need to dress it up you better have access to a mill because that is what it will take. I know because that is what I had too use. I did not have time to grade it out and it was rough. So after a couple of years I took a mill up one side and down the other. I cut it at a 2% slope each way and it was the best drainage I ever had on a drive way. I also used it to till up a garden space in January when I profiled the gravel road in front of my house because of an ice storm that made it difficullt to slow down and turn into my drive. It was also the best garden I ever had 12" deep in January. It did not last but it was good that year. Anomalie
A company i used to work at made recycle we made it out of old blacktop ,concrete, and a little sand crushed it all together it was the best stuff i have ever used. We used it as a temp when we would redue city streets,after the cars would drive on it for a couple of days you would have to use a excavator to dig it back up, it would be just as hard as the blacktop you took off in the first place.
The place that sells that here sells by the ton. Can anyone give me a rough idea of the volume yield per ton?
I plan for about half yard per ton.
i was trying to recall the area a dump truck load would cover, I'm thinking 20' x 20', 6" to 8" deep
I almost did my barn lot with recycled asphalt. . . but quickly found out that nearly 100% of the stuff is getting sent back to the plants to be blended with "virgin" asphalt mix. Therefore, the millings were going to cost me. . . more than I wanted to put into the project. If you can get it cheap or free, I agree: Put it down with a paver on a hot day and roll the heck of it.
Tomorrow we are putting some milling down on a private drive, 16' wide with a good dense graded limestone base. The base has been there for several years except for one 200' section that failed due to poor subgrade. A couple of weeks ago we put another 6" of dense grade over that failed spot and last Friday we took the roller, water wagon and a T250 and scarified the surface, wet it down and packed it. (This is a private drive of a business partner of mine, we work on it when we have the time and he has the money.. , hence the spans of time between work ) So the question is "to water or not to water". Since even red fuel is $3.50 a gallon, that is out of the question. I have a Cat 533E for compaction, so we are covered there. The millings were hauled in and stockpiled many months ago, good, clean millings from a US highway. I have a water wagon at my disposal (Ok it's my hydroseeder, little sucker has all sorts of uses ). Should we grade it out and spray the surface, then compact it? To add- we will be placing geo-fabric down prior to placing milling on the poor subgrade section.
Yes
water and milllings you should know about the soft spot. did you get it to quit pumping? other than that, the r.a.p wiill take a ton of water. i don't know how long the drive is and how deep you are laying it in. but with the high temps down there and plenty of water you will be fine. i try not to work it too many time because i end up losing all of the fines. good luck cd:usa:usa
Since I have come on board for this "project", the spot wasn't pumping just flexing some under the roller. The base started to get a few stress cracks as the rolling/vibrating continued. I chocked it up to some soft sub-base and quit rolling it. We have some fabric so that will go down over that area before the milling is put down. Good thing is that this driveway is mostly just residential traffic with the occasional dump truck coming in and out. The area that I am talking about is the 4-5' wide section, about 200' long, close to the shoulder. The center and left side are good and tight. Thanks for the advice on not working it too much. Makes sense you don't want to segregate the fines from the larger pieces. It's in the high 90's manana (98-99 with the same humidity :dizzy), so the temps should be in our favor. I'll pour the water to it prior to rolling and see how it goes. Thanks CD.:drinkup ON EDiT- This is a driveway for a business partner of mine in the industry, not a job for a customer.