Anyone else notice that just recently most all of the big guys are now charging you time and a half above the hourly rental rates if you go over 8 hours a day? We rented some light towers recently and noticed on the fine print that anything over 40 hours a week is billed at 1.5X and 2.0X when you go over 50 hours called them up and they said anything with an hour meter is like that now!!! We rented a bunch of stuff several months ago and there were no overtime charges then.... now all of the sudden they basically up their rates without upping their rates
That is absolutely insane...I would be finding a different rental house. They don't do that around here - though admittedly I never deal with Sunbelt...because they're scum.
Welcome to telematics and the internet. They won't miss a minute of use anymore.
We deal with all the big guys.... called around and apparently they are the same now...
Like I told the boss... what's next overtime/doubletime on road plates??? I mean it's not like they are only used 8 hours a day...
Rental company can hire minimum wage to sit at a desk and watch the dollars ring up on a screen.
Sounds like they are bring all the machines into the same realm as Dozers, loaders, cranes, etc, have always been. Although they used to give us 50 hour weeks per our agreement.
We've rented lifts. excavators, rollers, dozers, etc.... pretty much anything they rent we get and don't ever remember seeing the overtime calcs. on them before.... they said it has been this way for a little while now. There has always been a 40-50 hour week rental price and if you go over then you get charged more for the extra time... but not the overtime calcs! Same thing with SB, UR, HZ etc...
That'd go over like a lead balloon up here. Nobody works 8 hours. Almost every operation here runs either 12 or 24 hours a day, 7 days week.
Most contracts I've seen state the hours but not all hour meters are totally accurate either. Some hour meters, like on tractors, are at a certain RPM and run faster at a higher RPM. I've seen hour meters that keep running for while even after the machine is shut off. I guess it would be something to try and negotiate and have written on the contract. If not try another rental outfit. It's like the buyers (and sellers) premium that auctions now have. What a farce!
Sounds like a heck of a lawsuit. Have them mail you the bill and it is mail and wire fraud and someone will spend some time in federal prison.
Correct, but if you wanted to rent something for your operation you'd first (I assume) get a quote from the rental company based on the working schedule that you were expecting to use it, no.? Dave, with electronic engines most hour meters are now considered accurate to at least 2 decimal places, if not more. The latest PSR I looked at the hours were quoted to 4 places of decimals. Example below.
I guess it would depend on the machine but some hour meters work off the tach. What happens if you accidently leave the key on or something? For a day rental I can maybe see an hour limit but for a week or month rental, it's just gouging in my opinion.
When I worked at the rental shop, majority of our rentals were long term deals. Usually 3+ months during a major shutdown or plant build. I imagine most customers were given quotes and what not. I never dealt with the numbers side of the business though.
From my experience rentals of light plants, compressors, welding machines, or similar on that type of deal was a generally flat rate of $X per week/month irrespective of whether the piece of equipment in question ran for 1, 100, or 1000 hours in that time.
I thought that’s how all rentals worked. Every rental agreement I’ve ever seen stated that a normal week was 40hrs and anything above that would be billed extra.
Yes, this is how it always was. But now they've decided the machine is worth a lot more(per hour) when you use it for more than 8 hours in a day or more than 5 days a week .
All rental contracts I've had eyes on state exactly the rates charged. I can't believe this would be a surprise to anyone who rents regularly. When I was an employee my time was worth more after eight and twice as much on Sundays. Why would machine time be any different? Analog hours meters haven't been on any rental machines I've seen in at least ten years. Hour meters driven from governors went out in the seventies or earlier when Hobbs brought in their electric meters. What are the chances of any rental company handling machines that old.
Yes, personal wages have always(for a long time) for the most part had overtime but overtime for a machine... and this is a fairly recent change in billing practice within the last 3-4 months for all these guys. With rates like that it would be cheaper to rent two or three machines and alternate them every 8 hours just more of a hassle...
I can top that … I wanted to rent a skidsteer for a week. The rate was for 40 hours, okay.. Only the week was 5 days. Drop off sometime on Monday, Pick-up at their schedule on Friday. I could only depend on it being available for 3 days use. Weather being a critical factor in my requirements. Needless to say I went to BobCat. Their weekly rate was 7 days. 40 meter hours included.
Yep, it has always been that way in the past grab it mongay and you had til monday(early) to return it and they charged you a weeks rent... unless you went over the 40 hours of course then they'd add anything over the 40 at normal rate. I wouldn't be surprised if this new change also has something like what you're talking about too.... hidden in the small print
Around here you don't need to worry too much about the hourly, because 80% of their rental equipment either won't start, won't stay running or just plane don't work. I rented a chipper two years ago after taking the first two back the third one ran for less than an hour before it took a dump.
LOL, so far these SB lights have come with at least 2 bulbs burned out and one of the towers showed up missing the two side stabilizer jacks... but other than that they seen ok... well except for the hourly thing ....
Lots of reasons. For one thing, there are laws preventing employers from forcing employees to work more than 8/40 hours because it's too much wear and tear on the human body. Machines function and wear the same if you work them 8700 hours a year or 8700 hours in ten years. There is nothing legitimate at all about rental companies charging time and a half over 40 hours. I suppose they get lots of customers who assume time goes on at a consistent rate after 40 hours and are told it's "customary" to charge time and a half after 40, without giving a real reason other than the usual "policy and procedure" nonsense. This is the same tactic used by many unscrupulous businesses who agree to something verbally and then present a bill demanding much more, then acting surprised that the customer didn't know what they claim was "customary". Another dirty trick rental yards use is to quote you a price on the phone and when you get there that price is x + y, not having mentioned that the mandatory insurance is added. Agreements trump "customary" because it's not the customers responsibility to know what a business claims is "customary".
Yea, like U-Haul renting a truck for $19.95/day. Then there's mileage and insurance on top of that and you're limited how far out of the city you can go or it's extra. I rented a single axle dump truck from another place and was told to fill it 2" from the top when you bring it back. I didn't have a tape measure but was very close to this. I stopped at an even number on the pump. When I bring it back they say it's not filled to the top and needed another 5 gallons or so and charged me about 3 times the regular price of gas. I said I was told 2" from the top and they now say full is within 1/2". I said then let me take it a couple blocks and fill it up fuller. Nope, you already returned it. That company ran for about 10 years and never got any newer trucks but it is now closed down. Good riddance!
When we rent from UR it has always been 'as long as the gauge reads full' you are good to go but it wouldn't surprise me if they started to do the 2 inch or 1/2 inch thing just to squeeze every drop out of you
Yea the gauge was pegged!
Gentlemen, It comes down to reading a contract before you rent the equipment. If you don't like the terms you can always shop around. You can't accuse someone of cheating you if you don't fully inform yourself. If you don't read the contract, you have given up that option.
I my case, I was renting a machine for a week, with the intention of purchasing one if it was appropriate to my tasks. The local Deere dealer lost out because of the unfavorable rental terms compared to Bobcat's dealer. The more this information is passed to the HE community, the more the vendors will take note of their competitors policies. Just like pricing. It's a business. Don't like something, take your money elsewhere and let them know why. Southwest airlines gets customers because they allow checked baggage with their tickets. The rest charge extra. Remember that when you fly.
1) If someone tells me one price over the phone and after I drive there presents a contract with much higher prices, he has renegged. Unscrupulous. 2) If someone presents a contract that has pages of legaleze fine print that ordinary people cannot fathom, I say complexity has a motive. Unscrupulous. Honest businessmen openly disclose all major costs to their customers. They don't "fine print" them with a complicated contract with several more customers waiting in line behind them. They keep their word. Dishonest ones sneak in extra fees at every stage. If you went to Walmart and picked up 3 gallons of oil totalling $35, then waited in line 10 minutes at the register only to be told there is a 8% fuel surcharge added, wouldn't you be outraged?
Well said John, I agree. I rent mostly from the Cat Rental store as we have a great relationship. Every year my insurance company sends them our rental waiver to have on file - it's rather easy. My salesman tells me what it is per day or week "out the door" and asks if we want it delivered and picked up for $150 each way. Nothing to it.
I rented a Budget 26 footer from the local car salvage yard a couple blocks away to deliver a 24 foot long foam canoe mold (Google ASCE Concrete Canoe Competition ) Our daughter and their daughter went to grade school together so I know them. Leave Friday night, drop off the mold Saturday in Houghton MI, drop the truck off Sunday night, put the keys in the drop box. I fill the truck tank to the bottom of the fill spout.The station is 2 blocks from the yard. I get my credit card receipt with an additional $15 charge for not returning it full. I stop there after work and says what gives. It was full to the bottom of the spout, did you want it running out of the fill pipe? Sloshing out driving in an out of driveways and bumps? She doesn't say a work, just hands me a $10 and a $5 from the register. I'll bet every rental drop off got a $15 not full charge. How many companies would question it, oh Joe forgot to fill it, it's only $15. It was a pretty good upcharge for them. They had a fleet of probably a dozen each 26 footers, 20? footers and cargo vans. Usually all gone during the week.
Very similar to what I went through but I had no choice but to pay it. I bet that $15 was based on an extremely exaggerated price for gas. Not much different than my cell provider from years ago. Just about every bill was over charging me. I just think about the thousands of customers who just the pay the bill and never really look at it. Yea, they might correct it if you contact them but I bet a lot don't even look at it that close. Cable and internet providers are the same way. New customers gets all kinds of incentives and discounts but the long term loyal customers get shafted. They don't give you a better deal unless you threaten to go to another provider.
I don't rent from the Cat rental store very often, so I don't have a special relationship with them. They make great deals over the phone, then when the driver delivers it he gives you paper to sign. Twice I have caught them adding cost on the contract. Called them on it and the driver made the adjustment and initialed it. They know exactly what they are doing....underhanded tricks. One time they made a deal and told me "free delivery". When I paid up I found out that "free delivery" does not include picking it up when done. Does anyone think they don't know most people make the assumption that free delivery means free hauling? But they are still cheaper than anyone else around Missoula so I still use them, just have to keep them on a short leash, expect tricks. A verbal contract is a valid contract, just as valid as one written by a team of lawyers. The only difference is that it's damn hard to prove or enforce a verbal contract which is why there is so much temptation for crooks to sweeten the verbal deal, then add more later.
Renting sucks! Its all I got.
Cat rental store here is owned by Finning here and are generally more expensive but they sold off most of their smaller tools and stuff. The way a lot of places are you almost need to be recording every conversation you have with them so you can hold them to what they agreed to.
Sounds like your dealer sucks and that sucks. We rent from UR from time to time but only if I have to. We've got good salesman and saleswoman but it's the rest of that huge company that I don't like dealing with. Sent a Bobcat E36 back without filling it up and they gouged us on the charge but we forgot to fill it up. Rented a 320E once and put in a borrow pit in a not so good part of town. We used it for a week, finished up and called my salesman to take if off rent and have them pick it up that day. Operator walked it down by the road, shut the disconnect and locked it up. My salesman knew it was in a bad part of town and relayed that info to dispatch. Well they let it sit there for a week before they picked it up and sure enough the methies had gotten to it. Did $1500 worth of damage to sheet metal ripping the doors open to get the batteries. A couple of weeks later my salesman called me and said they (management) wanted to bill me for the vandalism that happened a few weeks earlier. Salesman said hell no - if you were going to bill him he needed to get a police report so he could turn it in on insurance, instead you hauled it back to the shop and didn't say anything until now. Never saw a bill for it. The right drive motor on my '16 279D came back with several bad oil samples in a short period of time - 50 hrs between samples after the first yellow monitor compartment. 3 YR warranty on hydro ran out in July of '19. Red Action required with metal present hit 2 weeks into August '19. Rental Store swapped out the drive motor with a new one for $0 and I didn't even sign any paperwork. Shop manager shook my hand and said he would work it out on his end and I loaded the machine up and left. Our Rental Store handles all the small Cat iron - sales, service and warranty. Parts are still through main Cat house.
Yeah CM, we have a similar relationship with our UR sales rep great to deal with, will make things right even if it's not entirely their fault... but the big corporate engine is what is the devil!!!