Hi all, I have a 1970 cat 16 49 sn 879 and i have a tire problem, it has 18x20 36 to 40 plys rock lug minning tires on it and i hate them, they get me stuck all of time almost in anything, right now i am thinking about going to a wider tire in normal l2 lug pattern in 16 ply in bias ply in 20,5 x25 due to the 18x20s not offered in any bias ply l2 pattern i can find, this is a ranch blade and does not do over 200 hours a year and i just want a cheap new tire with lug pattern for the mud and sand we have down here, 18x25's are almost impossilbe to find, i find new rock 30 something plys for $2500 each and i dont want to put the same bad pattern back on it, the 18x25 is about 62 inches high for the 30 something plys i have on there, why can i get some bias type L2 lugs in 20,5 width and put them on the front for floations right now??? They are about $1000 each but of course in 16 ply and L2 lug patterns and 58 inches tall new inflated, i was wondering if anybody can tell me if the 20,5's x25 will fit where my old 18x25's were mounted, i just want to replace 2 tires on the front right now, heck i might even buy another E4 if i could find a good used one, they are like $2500 new down here for new, used i cant find so far but have turned up tons of 20'5x25's and 17,5x25 but they are to short becuase i have those 63 inch tall 18x25s on it, what would you do to try to save money and still get a different set of tires on the front for now to finish this job i have?? I am in south texas and can not find a source of used or retread 18x25's so far, does anybody have a link to a source of used 18x25 tires of any kind?? Apears the 18x25 is obsolete in size now?? I am going to try to put a intertube into the 18x25 as a last resort but its a very low tread tires and i am sick of it losing air, its a 5 piece wheel and i am going to clean the rings and wheel up and paint them and uses tons of bead grease and fixaflat if that does not work but i still need to find out what 16 ply bias tire is still available out there for this 55,000 pound grader???? Thanks for any advice and tips links in advance!!!! I wish i had found this site way before, i still own 2 old d8's and a 21 stacker and some anchor chain and a 16 foot wide roller chopper and some old r model macks, just trying to get 2 tires on the front now so wont have a mixed sized set and later if ever start getting rid if the mining luggers on the back???
Put an additional o-ring on the inside bead also. This has helped me on air leaks.
Here is a picture of the 1970 Cat 16 49g with the mining 32 ply radials rock lugs that i detest, went up to Holt Cat and by a couple of used Off The Road Tire Places and they all have made in china 20,5x25's but nobody knows if for sure they can be made to fit on a 13 inch wide 18x25 wheel, the 20,5x25 tires says a 17 inch wide wheel is required, the oldest tire guy i know 78 was out on a service call and his wife told me to pull the whole wheel off and bring it to him and he will dismount the old 18x25 and try to fit a 20,5x25 he has in Michlin radial grader type tread, so thats the latest plan, i need to get a new 1 3/4 impact socket for my 1 inch air impact so can bust the 10 lug nuts off and use the old Mack R winch truck to load it into a 20 bumper pull trailer, I also stopped by the Cat part department and only scored 1 new oring for the bead, but Holt Corpus has 4 of them and HD tool place is next door so its back to the hiway for more orings and a 1 3/4 socket and to sneak around all of the Corpus Chrisiti OTR tire places and look for used 25'slol I also found a set of made n china 20'5x25 loader 16 ply bias types for $950 each but the guy wants me to buy the 4 he has left from the last order of 50 he sold out of, very slim pickings n my old used tire haunts everywhere i go or call, ecomony is bad and tires are high and rebar is still sharp enuff to hit sidewalls!!!lol Stay tuned!! Thanks for all posts about tires, I am going to get this tire off of the wheel and the wheel is going to be sandblasted and primered and rings double checked as well as the ring groves for safety and common sense, i found out the 18x25 on the cat 16 still has all of the wheel misc availbe from cat and in stock in case a ring is rusty or bent or needs replacing for what ever reason,, I have mounted a cat 16 wheel in 5 pieces in 25 years if ever i am thinking so need the drill from the factory to be sure the rings are oreinted at the correct position which i can not remeber right now!! http://photos.imageevent.com/huntnequip/heavyequipment/websize/DSC03469.JPG I have got this blade painted and just need to replace a plantery in the left gearbox and install th emuffler and a new elbow i got for the rusted/burned out one from the turbo out and some decals and misc stuff like windshelid wiper arms and a cb radio etc etc
Go back to my post on the other thread where you mentioned this problem. I had a word on my tyre guy about putting 20.5 R25 on your rims and here is his reply. "I do not think these rims would accept the wide base radial tire. That said I have seen lots of really old wheels with radial tires fitted. I would recommend against this, it could and would very likely be dangerous even though you probably get them to seat." I know it's probably not what you want to hear but he is an OTR tyre specialist with years of experience. He did offer to find you some 18.00x25 grader-spec tyres if you're interested. An off the wall idea, but it will cost you a bit more money unfortunately. Get hold of a 19"-wide wheel from a scrapped 16G that was originally designed for 23.5R25 tyres. Try offering it up to your 16 tandem, not to see if it will "fit", but to see what is likely to foul on your machine with a 23.5R25 tyre installed on the 16G wheel. Then take that wheel and one of your existing ones to a machine shop and have them cut the centre disc out of both wheels. They could do this on a lathe. After cleaning up the rim, weld the centre disc for your old 16 wheel into the rim of the 16G wheel at whatever location gives you the offset you need. You then have a "b*****d" wheel assembly that can be successfully installed on your 16 tandems without fouling AND that will take a 23.5R25 wide-base tyre. Before anybody comes up with it. I KNOW that you're not supposed to weld on wheel rims, but I have documentation from rim manufacturers (Topy amongst others) that the one weld that you can work on is the one between the flange and the rim of the wheel. There are even repair procedures out there for reparing cracks in that same weld. All my suggestion does is remove and replace that weld completely instead of repairing a crack in it. More extensive than a crack repair but the same welding procedure.
I am headed out today to go buy one 20,5x25 used tire to mount on the 18x25 and see if it will seat and clear the chain boxs, I have talked to Longs wheels in Jaxsonville Florida about making new wheels in wider but they cost too much, one thing i have learned is that there is a cat loader that has the same bolt hole pattern and has 23's on it, Holt cat is trying to find some used on the hotline but they prob going to be hard to find at $600 to $1000 each, but actually that might be a option, another option is to send the wheel off to be widened, there are 2 shops still doing this, will prob know soon, somebody has told me that actually some 16's came with them factory as a option but i did not find them in my cat parts book but it is a old one, got to ask the head shop mehanic at Holt Cat Corpus Chrisiti what year that might have been or what loader or what was the donor if any for the wider wheels that worked?? Thanks for the replys
According to what I can see on-line the 16 grader (49G prefix) was never offered with a wide-base tyre option, only 18.00x25. The wide-base tyre option only came with the 16G, and we have already detemrined that 16G wide-base rims won't fit. I would strongly caution against trying to widen the existing wheels. That would involve a "Cut & Shut" job of welding a widening band into the rim itself which is not recommended under any circumstances. My suggestion above of modifying the wheels by using a #16 centre disc with a 16G rim would be the way to go IMHO, and you could then install 23.5R25 tyres on it.
I have a couple of guys who might know what cat loader has the same bolt hole pattern as the old 16 and try to find a loader wheel that might fit or have the corect offset to clear the chainboxes
Here is a 16 grader picture i found on the web, notice it has 23x25s on it and the clearance at the chain boxes, wonder if the wheel on this newer cat 16 will fit on my old blade, looks like it has 10 bolt hole pattern to, there must be a different wheel on a 16m that Nige posted about not fitting, looks like this wheel would be a good candiate to try to find in a wrecking yard and see if it fits on a cat 1649g like I have with the narrow wheel 18x25 set up, that wheel on this cat blade must be 17 or 18 inches wide to fit those 23'sx25 on it i am thinking, does cat have a wheel interchange between graders or would one have to call the dealer to call the factory to see if they would work to get floats on it and a newer type tire that is being made nowdays, these tires would solve my traction problems for sure look at the wide direction grip!!! http://www.machinerytrader.com/images/Machinery/fullsize/88642100.jpg
That photo of a "16" is actually one of a 16G, so it would have had a wide-base rim option along with 23.5R25 tyres from new ......... !! 16G has 12-stud wheels, 16 has 10-stud wheels. That's why I suggested waaaaay back to use the centre disc from a 16 wheel combined with the rim from a 16G. That gets you your correct 10 stud holes and the correct rim width to fit a 23.5R25 tyre. Isn't this where we came in ...?
I did not realize that the number of bolt holes were different, i thought i remember you saying the offset was different and thus might not work, makes sense to me now, have to just mount the 20,5x25 on the blade as i can find them, that wheel on the 16g 93u is $2000 each with the incorrect number of bolt holes, you are right, its too expensive to try cut the centers plasma cut out and remove out of a newer 16 and weld the 10 bhp in the wider wheel, oh well its back to getting 20,5x25s and trying to squeeze them on the 18x25 wheel or buy 32 ply mining tires like i have on there for $2750 eachlol what a part orphan this thing is, but was wondering is there a newer 23,5x25 tire on some other cat mahine that could have 10 bolt hole pattern like the old wheel i have for the 18x25 has???
Just got off the phone with Longs wheels in Jaxsonvile Florida, they pulled up specs for a cat 16 93 u grader n told me $1100 each for brand new 23,5x25 wheels 1 week delivery and that they are showing 10 bolt holes not 12, so who is right and who is wrong now??LOl crazy for sure, i am going to google cat 16 93 u on the web and count bolt holes on pictures if i can find one showing the side shot, another way to figure it out is too call cat and ask them or look in a 16g 93u part book and see how many lug nuts they show it takeslol
I am looking on-line at the Cat Parts system. There are 3 Serial Number ranges for Cat 16G 93U preifx. 1-1178, 1179-2678, & 2679 & Up. EVERY ONE shows 12-stud wheels ............ Whose information would you trust more, a 3rd party wheel company, or Cat .....?? If they are offering 10-stud wheels for 23.5R25 tyres that they say will fit your 16 can you ask them what is the stud diameter and what is the pitch circle of the holes so that you can measure it against your existing wheels.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/images/Machinery/fullsize/91083268.jpg this cat 16g 93u has 10 bolt wheels and has 23,5 tires and wheels, not sure if this left tire is a 23 but the other tires on the machine are different and they have 10 bolt holes not 12, what do you think i should so now, confirm with holt cat used and see if they can find one or 4 for the rear right now?? Tons of 23,5 rubber near me to like 60 miles, just depends how how cheap the junker wheels are, since cat is $2k each the junkers will prob ask $1000 or more for used when i can get new at Longs Wheels for $1100 each, lot more options now for sure, still thinking just get a set of 20,5x25s after i figure out if they will fit on the narrow 13 inch wide 18x25 wheel?? Thanks all who replied, it takes a fourm to get this going in my head and keep from getting hung or stuck by cat in the pants or out on the roadlol
here is a utube video where u can freeze it at 22 seconds and count the lug nuts there are 10, the book is incorect, not uncommon, could you post a link to where u found the wheel has 12 lug nuts, thanks you never know on these deals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEz7YjKsZPk
I have to apologize. Both 16 & 16G have 10 stud wheels. I just screwed up the calculation - 60 divided by 6 isn't 12 it's 10 - my bad .... Also the 16 & the 16G basically use the same bolts for the wheel studs, although the 16G uses different nuts & washers they are still the same thread, 7/8" fine. I'm still doubtful if a wheel designed for the 16G will have the correct offset to install on a 16 and clear the tandem housings. It would be a hell of a way to haul a wheel on sale or return basis and then find it didn't fit.
No prob, if you ever get down here come by for a free hog hunt after deer season, I am trying to get a Galaxy tire paper catalog to quizz them up on the actual sidewall thickness of some tires i have seen on there, i am not sure about what bead i have to use on my old bias ply tires vs going to a newer radial tire in a wider tire? Plus i have to try to figure out how much are 16 93u used wheels for the 23's i may just buy 2 new 18x25s and forget convering to something newer and wider and a long drawn up conversion, i want to go blade yesterdayLol!!! I still am up in the air, thought i had 2 20,5 bought to test fit and they got sold out from under me before i got up there, used tires are a crap shoot nowdays and lots of scammers with section patches and plugs painted black trying to pass a good used, to me a sectioned tire is a ripoff, i have gotten screwed 3 times i bought them, never again get a repaired tire, the time and labor to mount one of these monsters is not worth the gamble, the tire is so obsolte peeps are patching up junkers for good used tires with no guarantee, I dont have a spare wheel and road the blade 33 miles to the ranch and cant afford to have a flat with it on the road and have to hire a truc to get me off the road on sunday, cheaper to get one new 18x25 tire and just quit dreaming about wider tires until i find a steal on wide wheels down the road,
some news on the old 16 or 16g hello guys im from mexico and i was reading all the threads on this forum they are great i actually own 3 16g's and let me tell you something...two of them has 23.5x25 with wide wheels and 10 bolts but i have an older one still a 16 g and this one uses 18.00x25 with narrow wheels also 10 bolts, and yes its a pain in ...... to find tires for this one so any suggestions wellcomed...did you find wich loader wheels fit to make the wheels wider so to use 23.5's or wich is the best option..i will ad pictures of my graders so you can see the difference. does any one knows how to add a picture to a thread???
How to add photos .........
hi guys there was no option to upload pics so i created a pps on google docs take a look a it....the pictures says it all i hope this is helpful https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0AdJ3-oAHCTlBZGN2NTloaGhfMzJnMjUzZ25kZA
You need at least 3 forum posts before you can start posting photos. Post 1 more time and away you go.
any news ???? hi guys as i mentioned before i also own a 16 wich has the 18.00x25 tires with the 13inch wide wheels and its time to get a new set of tires. i installed two front 17.5x25 while trying to find the 18's, they look so much smaller comparet the 18.00, soo have any of yu guys tried to install the 20.5 tires on the 13inch wheel if so how was it?? i guess if you could not do it i will have to put all six tires 17.5x25 cause the 1800 are so expensive and rare to find. i hope and wish the 20.5 can be set on these wheels......any advise will be very welcomed thank you guys
There is a used and chinese tire guy on loop 410 in san antonio who has 12 chinese 20.5x25 tires for sell, he claims he has mounted them on the narrow old cat 16 like the one you and i both have with the narrow wheel 18x25 on it, I talked to several used tire guys with years of experience with these odd ball obselete tire conversions, they told me to either buy 20.5s x25 and run them or the 8 inch shorter 17.5s which you have on the front, I actually found some new surplus tires by accident in 18x25 radials and lucked out and got my machine going again, looks like you have enuff work to pay for all new tires and wider wheels, Longs tire and wheel in jacksonville florida is the only place that will make a new wide wheel for the old cat 16 conversion to the floation tires all the new 16s have, they were very cheap like $600 a wheel vs over $2300 each plus shipping from Cat in Ill. What part of Mexico are you from, i worked in mexico 2 years in Tamps clearing land for BancoRural, if i can help you call me or email me about the tires 361 354 0572 or whiteranch04@yahoo dot com I called every used cat part dealer in rock and dirt and part trader and used wheels were $1000 to $1500 plus shipping, cheaper to buy new wheels from Longs and then convert to the same size tire you have on the other 16,s, 18x25s are obsolete and non competive at over $3500 each plus shipping if u can find 1 or 2 anywhere, I looked forever and found lots of junkers or overpriced 20 year old cull tires, good luck let me know if u need the phone numbers or contact info, i would post it but dont have it on me right now, i dont want any more and am no scammer, you have very nice machines from the pictures,
Instead of wasting an o-ring,take a few minutes to properly clean the wheels bead area,including the flange and down in the corner where the rim base meets the flange,and use a good lube when mounting the tire, and you'll have no air leaks.Guaranteed.
This is correct.I highly recommend this as a solution to your problem.There is a company in Evansville,In. called Mine Wheel.That's what they do-custom wheel modifications for heavy equipment.