I picked this article up on a site I surf once in awhile. It talks about a system that can be fitted to existing haul trucks and is being installed by a major mining company. http://www.mining.com/web/barrick-gold-introduces-autonomous-trucks-nevada-mine/ The age of robots is being born as you read this.
Seems like its only a matter of time for very repetitive tasks. They were already talking about automating underground coal mining when I was still in the mines 8 years ago. There is alot of push for it due to the high labor costs and the expense of injuries. There are some things that can never be done by automation but those jobs are dwindling.
I spotted an article in a farm magazine not to long ago on the subject . https://www.agriculture.com/technology/robotics/3-obstacles-ahead-for-autonomous-farm-equipment We set some chemical tanks at a factory , finished up and plant manager gave us the tour while they were running product " Clorox " . https://www.clorox.com/products/clorox-pet-urine-remover/#unscented A lot of automation but still some line workers keeping an eye on the operation and manual tasks . Manager said they weigh the cost of automation with people . Some times people are more cost effective . Myself .... I aint gonna worry until robots start drinking beer .
I was 10 years old when my dad took me to cats mine at tanaja hills south of Tucson everything from dozes to haul trucks was automated one of the main reasons they have not really started to sell it is the liability of a driverless machine that was almost 20 years ago 5 years ago deere had 3 tractors in a demo no e had an operator again the head engineer said liability prevents the sale A lady was killed in Scottsdale az 3 months ago while j walking by an autonomous uber there was a driver in the car but the car nor the driver saw her till it was to late a week later the pilot program that had over 20 cars was cancelled in az Until labor cost makes the tech profitable enough to outweigh the lawsuit cost most things wont change
100 of us were at Cat in Peoria for 4 days a couple of weeks ago. Remote control is available on nearly all machines from skid steers to D-11s. Autonomous trucks are in use already in some open pit mines around the world. It is here and my bet is it will be the standard in large mining operations soon. I don't think that the artificial intelligence is good enough yet for smaller operations where the day to day tasks change. If in or going close to the Peoria area set up a visit for the demonstration building and prepare to be impressed. Another thing to watch for in the not to distance future is a futuristic looking, larger exoskeleton excavator the is not made of steel but of a new, stronger than steel product than can be 3D printed. The technology of 3D printing is changing rapidly with new printers and products that they print with. Printers are also getting huge and the costs of printers are coming down as more companies are researching and building them. It will not be long before you order your part and they will print you one.
In my experience so far, (construction not mining) it doesn't really replace operators, but it replaces grade checkers.
You only need to look at Volvo's website. Several years back they were running autonomous trucks in the jungles of South America. Then they introduced the same thing in mines. They were very proud that it wouldn't run over the engineer that deliberately walked in it's path. The next season they unveiled their autonomous dumper. A40 ton hauler with no cab. Full suspension and iirc they were considering making it hybrid. Just recently I saw that they are working with LEGO, yes the toy, to develop a loader without an operator. Maybe the insurance company wants to reduce injury, but they're reducing jobs first.
I need the autonomous option on the 1953 Insley crane . Cleaning some ponds out with the drag line bucket this week and I tell ya what … The air conditioning system aint nothin to brag about in that rig . And make sure ya check all fluid levels & keep her greased R2- D2 . LOL !
Here's a link to the loader idea . https://www.volvoce.com/global/en/this-is-volvo-ce/what-we-believe-in/innovation/zeux/ Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking innovation and tech. I just don't want to lose jobs in an already shrinking market
This is a link to Cat info.
The video appears to have been produced in the nineties. How much further ahead are they now?
This is where. Completly autonomous. Trucks, shovel loaders, dozers, water carriers, excavators, graders...... And what looks like a driller or shot holer up on the step to the left. Oh, and realize that the early parts of that first vid were shot in the 90s but, the LIDAR and the small footprint number crunching is a more modern invention.
Speaking on small footprint number crunchers.... The tablet I'm currently using has an octo-core processor. You can get a SBC of under $20 now.
Lots of autonomous mining trucks running around in Australia where the logistics of moving operators back and forth to remote mines located long distances away from urban areas has always been a problem. https://thewest.com.au/business/min...-to-make-pilbara-mine-full-auto-ng-b88693612z https://www.ausimmbulletin.com/feature/autonomous-haulage-systems-the-business-case/ http://www.ttnews.com/articles/australia-expands-use-caterpillars-self-driving-truck-technology https://www.autodesk.com/redshift/autonomous-vehicle-technology-in-construction/
Mine sites I can see why there are autonomous machines. Do this, do that, repetitive motions ARE more common to autonomous motions. It's when you get in to the other side of earth moving. Small subcontractors, single operators and users of "Old Iron". That might be pushed out of their "nitch" market by someone running the machine in a third world earning $2.50 an hour across the internet or sattellite. From Sweden Tech. Yeah the guy doesn't know how a loader runs, but!
And who can say that the comms CANNOT be hacked?
And then you get this
Was thinking more along this line. But, that works also.
A couple hackers already proved it could be done. They approached Chrysler a couple years back. Said there was a flaw in their system. Chrysler replied, " naw, we got it all fingered out" These kids had a buddy, a willing participant driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee I believe. They hacked their way in through the sirius radio. Everything is now on CAN so they got into ABS, electronic steering, cruise control. They really gave their buddy a hard time. Chrysler later offered them position to ensure that would not happen again.
Yup, seen that! I just wonder how "secure" Cat's autonomous is?
You have this. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-car-hacking-is-nearly-impossible/ To this. https://www.wired.com/2016/03/study-finds-24-car-models-open-unlocking-ignition-hack/ Sorry, everyone. But this I think does apply to other autonomous machines as well.
Everything is on the CAN or backbone. And with satellite communication for location and programming, I don't think it's a stretch to think someone would eventually find their way into the system.
And, THIS is what i find most (insert word of choice), scary, horrifying, head up my *** frightening? I'm sorry, but there are people in this world that would DO this in a heartbeat.
Hacking doesn't matter to big business until it happens. It ain't happened yet that we know of. The aim is to increase profits through the reduction of human labor. Once it happens then steps will be taken to minimize it happening again, because it got in the way of profits. If you want an example of the effects of technology and its impact on labor look back at the implementation of containerized shipping. It was a paradigm shift in the way cargo was put on ships and trains. How many thousands of dock workers were let go?
And pilfering of cargo pretty much disappeared overnight...
Makes sense to go for remote control in lots of remote mining operations. Keeps down costs and reduces risks of injuries. If AI can do the repetative tasks cheaper and more efficiently why would employers want operators with all the inherent risks of tiredness, lack of concentration, holidays, sickness etc? Once the program is perfected it can run 24/7 perfectly. No human operator can do that. Graham
The cargo pilfering might have stopped but the longshoreman union just substituted that with higher wages and benefits when they shut down entire coastlines in the states. I think it being cheaper so far is yet to be established. I can also say nothing runs 24/7 perfectly. We have autonomous machines in the agriculture industries now. Run a search on John Deere owner repairs and check out who thinks no one else should be able to repair that brand of tractor or combine. I would also think that as an owner, AI would be the thing. On the other hand though, because of the liabilities of autonomous machinery, what if only the manufacturer could own the machine and you had to contract with them on a rental or lease basis. Those machines would need to be in perfect condition all the time. Can anyone ever afford that? If I were a twenty five year old operator I think I would be studying for another occupation to get into when I was thirty five to forty years old. It's coming, the only question right now is in the legalities of liability, the compiling of the actual costs and the politics of which ever government happens to be in power when the crap hits the fan.
Yeah, Labor is a point, but the hacking is more important. IMHO. And the construction and mining is most of autonomous things that "might" be.....
Um, Yahoo. Amazon. Erm, dnc (l didn't say that! ) Yeah, BIG business. Always a way in. Because we do not have truly secure communications or we have idiots on one other or other side.
The only autonomous mines that I know of have miles and miles of terrain to cover to get to them. They remove the people so the hazards are limited to fender benders. Also, hackers aren't usually interested in things that far away. It's kind of an "instant gratification" hobby. They dont like driving miles down an open face mine road just to get chased by security for an hour from the gate. That's why we dont see automated equipment. The more bodies, the more danger, and the more risk to hackers if you dont need someone in it to operate it. Now.... if you research engcon, they have a cool computer system hooked up to their control sticks for the tiltrotator. You can easily set this up with a boom pump remote controller and operate the from edge of a trench or hole for more visibility. They have pilot control movement capability, so you dont really need a body in the cab.
Remote control has been around since the mid eighties and earlier. Autonomous equipment is already working the Ag industry and you don't have to drive miles to get to it. So far I haven't heard of hacking of farm equipment operations but like mining it appears there is a limited amount of damage that could be caused. The only large hacking links I have heard about concern power grids, point of sale systems and identification databases. https://www.asirobots.com/farming/ The claim here is a labor shortage and not the cost of human labor.
Tomorrows generation will do fine with autonomous equipment. They will be the ones programing them and when needed, printing parts to the nearest printer to the machine. Hide and watch. The older generation has always frowned on change, but the world has always survived and prospered.
I see. I only have opinions on that, and being from southern California where "the Mexicans are taking all our jobs" and "the millennials are so lazy and dont want to do anything to help themselves!" Being that I work in heavy labor construction side by side with both, I could go on and on on this topic. It does happen to be a close partner to that. Anyways, imo, with heavy equipment, having people of varying mental capacity is always a dangerous situation. Even with easy to see out of and control under 10 ton machines, it's scary how dangerously people throw themselves into harms way without thinking. So, again imo, if an owner can automate a 50 ton machine, and all the machines around it for even $100k each, it's worth it in order to not kill anyone. The flip side being, people lose jobs. Regardless how you look at it, both arguements make perfect sense, owner or worker. The owner is the one with the check book and the nightmares of 100s of employees to keep safe. I dont think anything will be automated in city type areas any time soon. I do think having RC tech available in these areas would make heavy machinery safer as you can make machines smaller, and the operator can see around the machine. Anyways, my 2 cents. Cheers.
If you're talking about $100k for automation and then set it against the cost of a new mining truck at circa $3 million a unit it's small beer. Especially when it means that in a remote mine site working 24/7 by installing the autonomous system you have immediately removed the need for a salary, transport, accomodation, meals, & benefits package for 4 operators to run each truck. $100k might be a bit on the low side. I know that the anti-sleep devices we installed in our haul truck fleet cost somewhere around $50k per unit. these guys are the world leaders apparently - http://www.seeingmachines.com/
Automation is here to stay in certain applications but in my market it would never be cost effective especially on these custom homes on the side of the mountain for the time and cost it would be to program the dig you could do it 3 times and I think it will lb. Stay that way for a long time On another note if construction keeps going the way it is right now it would be hard to automate a lot of things after the grading because no none of the builders can organize a job right and put half the systems in and find out they are in the way of everyone else
caterpillar has forklifts that are auto but the price of them and the problems they have caused have cost them a lot more it is breaking least twice a week and its a pointless waste of money to me but I dint sign the check
An interesting article regarding the current state of autonomous operations in mining. http://www.mining.com/autonomous-trucks-sales-move-push-pull-caterpilllar/
Why mining companies are looking to reduce the number of people they have to FIFO into their operations ....... http://www.mining.com/whats-good-bad-fly-fly-mine-worker/
At Caterpillar, Peoria, the 49 acre (under one roof) warehouse has computer generated orders filled by mini forklifts running 30 MPH between the shelf rows, picking parts from bar codes and dropping them off on the upstairs deck for shipping. They been doing it for a few years now and adding more of the warehouse to it continually. They are doubling the parts storage capacity without increasing building size. No humans tread in the automated area. It would be deadly for sure.
they seem to think its a good idea till someone gets hit which has about happened to me about 6 times. thing was carrying a load and they told me i was out of the way it took a turn and the load bout hit me would of took out my knee if someone dint pull me back
Ooohhhh, squishie for sure there. But. How much would haking damage any thing. Get into the system. Add (if C language). #include int main() { int n, reversedNumber = 0, remainder; printf("Enter an integer: "); scanf("%d", &n); while(n != 0) { remainder = n%10; reversedNumber = reversedNumber*10 + remainder; n /= 10; } printf("Reversed Number = %d", reversedNumber); return 0; } Input = 4539 Output = 9354 . Simple as that, "IF" you can get in.
Mixing automated and pedestrians is asking for trouble. Normally automated warehouses don’t allow pedestrians in. One near me has no windows and operates in the dark to save on electricity.
The one in Peoria has 20+ foot high chain link fence separating the automated side from the human side of the warehouse. The automatic forklifts run on some kind of a track system with one screaming down between each row of shelving.
basically the way they have it is going off sensors however because this is the first one we have gotten they haven't gotten to where it would stop on a dime for a person it will come about 5 inchs to you before it actually stops and it wont detect anything unless it actually see it. the thing has hit a fork lift 3 times its hit one of our frames that was being moved its hit carts its basically needs a clear path or it aint gonna stop
Ya. I would compare it to a jukebox box, or redbox machine. It catalogues where everything is and has a map of drivable area. The program knows where all the forklifts are, but a collision sensor wouldn't work great at high speeds, and is dependent on range of sensing, type of object, etc.. If you take the "unknown" human part out of the equation, they can run faster and have way less accidents if any. If it's a high speed rail system, they dont even have to worry about collisions. They only have to have a loading sensor for the output cart. This would be the same as having dozens of really lazy operators who only work 1 aisle, and truck driver that goes really fast between them all. At least a simplified version.
they have them for our shipping where its just shelfs and they do alright because no one walks down there anyways but where we are at its a lot of foot traffic from us to other people so its just a mess
https://www.equipmentworld.com/volv...ions-reduction-25-operational-cost-reduction/ here we go again, I thought this was already in use, it seems that those were prototypes and test mules.
Their power plants must be magical. They can produce energy with no carbon . But I can see that, you got all these windbags running around saying electric is the way to go, that must be how they turn the windmills and produce the energy. But realistically, You can't have zero emissions, it's not plausible. Everything we do from breathing on up, produces carbon emissions on one level or another. You build a nuke plant, you have the decayed fuel to deal with.(NOT carbon, so it's ok) Plus you have all your ancillary support. Water is as close to clean as it gets, but it's inconsistent , you have drought , you're not producing the same level . Wind, again , another boondoggle. Is that really paying off? Don't get me wrong, it's keeping guys working and making a good dime doing it. But is it paying off? Solar is no better, inefficient to support large scale infrastructure. What's left ? Coal , Natural gas and Nuclear. But in this country we regulate the industry to death. Look at coal . At least President Trump is trying to resuscitate the coal industry. here in the Midwest we have energy plants everywhere.Cali can't be having no ugly smokestacks poking up. But they sure consume some Megawatts . I'm just picking on them cuz they are the land of fruits and nuts. Can't build any refineries. But 3rd world countries can produce energy by any means necessary. Sometimes that means taking an old gas or diesel engine from a car here and hooking it to a generator or water pump over there, running continuously forever, till it dies. That's ok cuz that's how they do it, and who are we to tell them they can't? But other governments including our own tax, regulate and choke the life out of industry. That's why we are a non-producing nation. To make stuff, there's this ugly by product called carbon emissions. Nobody wants to deal with the far reaching hand of the EPA . As a result, industry suffers to the point they say, " FU@% it!!" and give up the game. I understand clean air is necessary and nice. I'm not trying to bring down acid rain and Armageddon. We gotta wise up. We can't let our country enter into treaties with other nations that would A) disarm us B) restrict our ability to prosper C) impose unfair restrictions/regulations. What do you all think I'll get off my soap box now. Just needed to purge that .
Don't forget about hydro power. It is the only one that can be turned on and off with the flick of a switch and produces no atmospheric pollution. But in Washington State hydro power is not considered a renewable resource. Go figure.
I mentioned water, and you're absolutely right, it's as clean as it gets. Except, you have to maintain it, you need parts for it, this and that still needs another piece of equipment to perform the repairs and maintenance. I wonder, how much energy goes into producing a turbine and stator . So little that we can claim zero emissions? I don't know.
Maintenance on an hydro like Bonneville is about every thirty years. On a cost per unit of power, nothing comes close. Just you and I being here causes emissions. My wife can speak to my emissions after a big dinner and copious amounts of barley nectar. One has to conclude as long was humans inhabit this piece of rock, we will have an affect. The question is how to limit that affect without eliminating ourselves. Check out this site; https://www.hydro.org/waterpower/why-hydro/available/hydro-in-the-states/west/ There is nothing in the foreseeable future that has the capacity or convenience with less environmental impact than hydro power. Its only constraint is politics.
That's how they did old school . 200 year old mill …. https://www.in.gov/dnr/parklake/2968.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Mill_State_Park It's a pretty cool place to visit & see the mill in action . Mill working at 2:50
I'm down for slapping dozens of these along the coast line. I'm sure they can anchor turbines under the surface to use current as well. Cali uses natural gas plants. We have stacks, they just hide them in low income areas.
Whole trouble today is try building any of this and see how the enviro-maniacs,public, and politicians hang you by your nuts!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ion-from-nea-for-autonomous-construction.html Looks like more people are getting into taking away operators jobs. Techs will always have work, I think? But we'll have to convert to electrical engineers. Electromotive techs might be next line of heavy equipment techs. And yes, I know this is a zombie thread that should be dead. Everytime I look on LinkedIn, i see more hybrid, full electric or autonomous devices getting a stronger grip on our livelihood.
It won't matter how efficient they are if they can't clean up the power supply. I would be fine with electric machines if they would release the advanced solar technology to power it. Until then, WOT diesel it is! The utterly insane amount of tech from the 70-80's that still isn't in use is biblical. Combine that with the "I don't care if it doesn't affect me directly" mentality and turning a blind eye to horrific pollution in industrial countries..... we are seriously en route to Wall-e being a reality.
I'm not looking to wall-e.... just bad actors (ie. black hats)!
https://www.constructionequipmentgu...oves-its-precision-in-a-glass-labyrinth/41995 More cool stuff to eliminate jobs.
Pretty impressive. Have you heard of the Uber taxi service going on in one of our cities?
Heard of one that made a hard turn into a jersey wall that it didn't know was there. That was over the summer.
Cat has autonomous trucks doing all kinds of work in Australia, and the descriptions are scary for people in this industry: better efficiency, lower costs, etc. This is an article about it: https://www.constructionequipmentgu...us-haul-truck-demo-in-tinaja-hills-ariz/41871 I think it will be a while before autonomous vehicles take over mainstream projects though.
they can only rid the earth of so many workers .....as the worker is also the consumer .....FORESIGHT?