The patient: A loaded 2016 299D2 XHP: ... in its native habitat, a heavy equipment junkyard in the farthest, poorest regions of the US. (Hoboken, GA) I asked the junkyard guy why so many fires in construction equipment and not any other heavy equipment. He said that it's what's done when the engine seizes or throws a rod, to collect on insurance. In this case it spent most of its life next to the Atlantic and has some corrosion on electrical connections. No big deal. I know fire is a hazard. In this case it was between the cab and engine bulkhead. All wiring and hoses there are melted. And everything in the cab above the belt is melted. But the engine compartment is great, undercarriage is great, lift structure as well. I paid $7,000 for it plus $3,000 for transport across the country. Then $16,700 to Cat for all the parts I could think of I'll need. (I looked for parts in junkyards nationwide but all similar machines have the same damage) And I end up with a loaded 2016 299D2 XHP, hopefully. I'm a pretty good engineer and I'll make it work. I've begun tearing it down and will wetblast and completely paint it to begin with. The cylinders don't have any fine ports, and I'm replacing many hoses. Rebuilding the worktool controller and replacing the accumulator, all solenoids, and other affected parts. Yes it'd been parted out to some extent but I found those parts at another junkyard. $7,000 for the machine and cab, and $3,000 transport to Seattle. (UShip) I'm just going to do the best I can. I will do this rather than pay $90k for this fine machine.
I've ordered all the parts from my local dealer (NC Machinery) I could think of I'd need. There will be lots of stuff missing pieces invariably, but I've ordered most of it. $17,800. Only parts they had locally were basically the filters and ignition switch and keys, so I took them home in a box. The rest should arrive by Wednesday. First thing I did was took off the other track. (The machine is already on blocks) The front two idler wheels (left in pic) are on a retractable frame, which is spring-loaded and can be pushed out by injecting grease into a fitting inside that access door. I knew I can loosen the grease fitting and it would let grease out so I can retract the pusher frame, but how to pull the pusher frame back? I finally settled on this: I put cribbing below the track so it wouldn't sag (just two 2x4's), and jacked it up. You can see here the pusher frame is all the way retracted into the undercarriage. So I pulled out a 2x4 from the bottom and removed the jack. Well the track weighs 560 pounds so it wasn't easy to wrestle off of the front idler, but I managed to do it. And as I'd removed a 2x4 from cribbing it sagged below the bogie wheels so it was disengaged. At this point I hooked a chain to the front of the track and tried to pull it away with the car, but the whole machine shuddered like it could fall. So I tugged and struggled and and farted it off that back idler, then used a crowbar to get it off the final drive sprocket. THEN I pulled it away with the car to a corner of the property out of the way. Whew. But, something was wrong with the sprocket. It didn't seem symmetrical. Then it hit me, this is the 'worn sprocket' I'd read about but didn't believe. Here it is in front, compared with the junkyard sprocket I'd bought for the other side: Wow. The wear is real. The worn sprocket was on the port side. So I had to order another sprocket from the Minnesota junkyard and it's on its way. As of yesterday: (More progress today) This was all full of the nastiest wet smelly mud and oil you can imagine. The side frame tubes were packed with it too. I still have to remove all those hoses, etc. Front and center you see the hydraulic pump, which is connected directly to the engine. It's actually three pumps, all on the engine spline shaft. The front pump is "Charge". When I removed that large hose from the hydraulic oil tank it gushed out gallons of water from the pump... that can't be good for the internal pump parts. Since the hydraulic tank's top had melted, rainwater has collected over the time it sat in the junkyard. The Charge pump is a gear pump that keeps all the lines charged with pressure (so no delay in activation), and provides pressure for the controls and (hydraulic) radiator fan. A gear pump simply uses two gears to roll oil out, and is what almost all cars use to move oil. The middle pump is for Implements (lift arms, implement tilt, implement power), and given that this is an XHP machine, it is a 'swash plate' type of piston pump. Now, this is a truly weird pump design which I've only recently come to understand. There are only a few ways of converting rotation, to reciprocating action, and the car engine crankshaft is one way. Swash-plate is another. As the loader's engine turns it rotates the center pump shaft. The right swash plate does not rotate (in the case of a pump) and the left one does. The left one has the pump pistons attached to it, so as the center shaft rotates so does the left swash plate and pistons, and that plate in turn pumps the pistons to move oil. But the right swash plate's angle is controlled -- the more angle, the further the pistons move and the more oil it moves. The less angle the less oil is pumped, so this is a true 'variable displacement pump'; unusual to have a native VDP. This loader is designed to pump far less when not being used (only Control is run when idle), to save fuel. Cat's pumps have nine pistons, and they are much beefier than this illustration. The back pump (next to the engine) is the Motive pump. It's also a swash-plate pump, and when the swash plate is at the greatest angle you get the most power to the two final drive motors on the tracks. Also Cat synthesizes 'two speed' by reducing the swash plate angle, and cutting off oil to half of the pistons (so they free-wheel) and the remaining pistons fill with oil faster -- less torque, high speed. Something else weird: The two final drive motors on the tracks are also swash-plate design, not a turbine as I'd thought. The high-pressure oil comes in from the pump and drives the pistons, which drive the swash-plate and the motor's rotation! Cool. I can't believe it actually works, but it does. Swash-plates are used on all helicopters to link the controls to the rotor, for setting blade angle and rotor attitude and pitch, although I've never understood them. (Still don't) It is recommended to use SAE 10 oil in the hydraulic system but I was planning to use SAE 20 because of better lubricating qualities. (Cars usually get 10W-40) But now I see the value of using the thinner SAE 10 oil -- faster response, even in cold weather. Three types of hydraulic oil: mineral (traditional dino-oil), synthetic, and bio-oil (from soybeans). I wanted to use bio-oil but was doubtful of its ability to hold up under the stress and heat in this case. But Cat's own docs say that bio-oils can last 6,000 hours like synthetic, instead of 2,000 hours like mineral. (Thanks to guys here for helping me out with this) Synthetic and bio-oil cost about three times mineral. So my plan is to first use mineral oil to run the system, which will flush out all the burn crap, then replace it with bio after changing the filter. As I remove hoses I cover the ends with duct tape and mark the two connectors with A... B... C... etc, so I have some hope of putting this thing back together right. I'm also putting all fasteners back in the holes they came out of. But my duct tape and sharpie plan is falling apart. Sharpie writing wipes off, even before any power washing, much less sandblasting. It's amazing that there is no rust on the frame whatsoever. This machine spent its whole life working on the Atlantic coast and had damp stinking mud in every crevice, yet absolutely no rust. Either the paint (and their process) is very good, or the whole frame is galvanized after welding. I had to run around this week trying to find open-end wrenches that are big enough for these hose connections. I have a good collection of tools but nothing this large. I finally found all wrench sizes except the biggest -- 42mm (1 11/16"), so I'm just using my big pipe wrench for those. The connections are very tight, but when I overcome its breaking strength, *SNAP* it then unscrews easily. Well cleaning this up is a filthy nasty job, and I'm not sure if I can get this thing running again. I dreaded going back out there today, but it must be done or else it will annoy me to no end, not to mention I'll have a very expensive liability out there that there's no other way to resolve. Yesterday as I was digging crap out of the machine near the engine, I got some bad news: That is a hole in the 32 gallon polyethylene fuel tank. And the fuel tank is under the engine. No way to replace it without pulling the engine. It's a setback, but I assume that I would have had to pull the engine anyway, given the fried wiring harnesses passing through the bulkhead. Probably couldn't replace those without pulling the engine. I'm starting to think that pure engine fires are preferable to cab/bulkhead fires. I have successfully pulled the implement hoses out of the right arm of the lifting frame. (burned at the bulkhead controller) And I have disconnected the giant auxiliary hoses in the left arm of the lifting frame, although I can't budge them because of one clamp where they exit the lifter arm at the top. It has two bolts inside that are simply impossible to get off. How in the world did they do this at the factory? I had to use a sawzall to saw the clamp in half. The back of the operator's cab has the fuse panel and Engine Control Module. Both are on order, with all wiring harnesses. I called the Cat dealer (NC Machinery) to ask how they program the ECM. He said I'd bring the machine in and they'll connect their Cat Electronic Technician software to program. Well it'd cost me $1,200 just to get it in there since it doesn't run. So I thought about it and realized that they must fix machines in the field all the time. And all they need is some hand-held electronics to program my ECM. So I later asked them again, just assuming a service call, and yes they do service calls. But because my ECM is fried and this is a top-of-the-line machine, they said it could take 4-5 hours to program, at who-knows-what hourly rate. So thought about it some more and asked them if they can just take a dump from a like machine in their rental stock and flash it to mine? Ohh they were reluctant, but it is clearly a solution. Main things needing changed from that are the VIN and hours, and any small differences in options. So maybe that's the path forward with that. Today I continue teardown and hopefully get to the point of pulling the engine. Hating this pretty badly, but I have asked for it. I wanted the coolest Big Boy Toy and now I'm paying the price. I will pay it.
Ambitious project. I wish you the best of luck and look forward to watching your progress.
That’s just about like eating an elephant! Best of luck.
Reluctant on pulling the engine?? THAT woulda been THE 1ST THING I DID.. If for nothing else, just for the room.. Kool project, keep us informed.
+1. I’d have been pulling the engine just to make space for pulling everything else. In the long run it would likely save time.
Nah, engine hasn't had anything to do with what I'm doing up to this point. I'll bet it would have on an excavator though. In fact pulling the pump with the engine would have been impossible without doing this work first. Looks like special tools are required to break the pump from the engine. And anyway, I need the pump out to (wet) sandblast, paint, and repair it, and do a thorough job on the frame. But this project has sure cured me of any desire to do an excavator next...
That's a very ambitious project but anything can be done with enough time and money. A friend of mine's new 430D backhoe was washed into a ditch and submerged by a flood with less than a hundred hours on the clock. The Cat dealer bill was $30K to get it back to new and that's been 10 years ago, but that was covered by insurance. Something that you have considered I'm sure is the collateral damage from the heat of the fire that you cannot see that could cause costly gremlins down the road.
Sure. The heat wouldn't damage the DPF or muffler, in fact it may help the DPF. I'm rebuilding the Implement Control and replacing practically everything else on the cab side of the bulkhead, including everything above the waist in the cab. Only thing I'm not opening up is the pump, and it did get some scorching. (I am replacing its solenoids) I know, I should worry, worry. You Earthlings... My theory at this point is that it became unreliable due to corrosion of electrical connections as it was on the Atlantic most of its life. So they torched it. We'll find out if that's all that's wrong.
I wish I could share your optimism ........ or your theory about why it caught fire. Work on the basis of whatever can go wrong will go wrong and you'll not be far out.
lol, I know you're sincere Nige, but {cough} 'way to make this easier'... I'll be fine. Picked up my truckload of parts today. Everything goes by part#, with only a minimal description. I'll need the parts manual for every step, to decrypt where my parts go. Cat's parts system is so terrible and antiquated. Yesterday when I was trying to get the giant, heavy XHP lines out of the left lift-arm, there was one clamp that I could not figure out for the life of me -- up where the lines exit the lift-arm at the top. It has a black bracket that bolts to the lift-arm, and bolted to that is a steel clamp which bends around the lines and two bolts at the bottom. There is no way to get at the clamp bolts. I ended up using a sawzall to cut up the clamp. I asked an NC Machinery tech but he was baffled. We looked at some rental machines, but they didn't have any XHP so of course all we found were easy bolted clamps there. None with the two bolts at the bottom of the clamp which is not two-piece but bends around the lines. Even after getting it out I can only conclude that the factory either gets it in with Black Magick, or before the arm is folded into a tube and welded...
A service manual should help shed some light on some of those issues. Sometimes they are worth their weight in gold.
Separating the pump from the engine is not hard to do especially if you have it out of the frame. I wound check the nylon pump drive coupling while it's easy to get at. ( and it's been hot) You might also want to pull the pan and check rod and main bearings too. You don't know what the last owner did to this machine.
Thanks Mobiltech. I've disconnected everything today and the engine is ready to lift out. I need to rent a tip-&-tow for that, but the darned back bar on the loader is in the way. Where is the nylon pump drive coupling? I removed the V-belts today and found that the alternator is locked up, and the V-belts were stuck on to the sheaves with rust. Seems like this should take years to do, but this machine is definitely a 2016. And clearly the junkyard hadn't manually turned the engine like they said they had. I didn't have the courage to try that as I have a job interview in Atlanta Friday.
The pump coupler is between the engine and the pump stack. It's designed to fail if any of the pumps lockup instead of the engine violently decelerating.
Egh, I guess I'd better crack the pump off the engine when I get them out. I'm told it takes a special tool, but I've heard that one before.
When Ive seen fire damage like that, its funny how Im always to busy to get to that kind of project.
Is anyone else here thinking this might be another " D6c cat loss of oil pressure" thread? I hope not but seems to be way too much enthusiasm to order parts and cut things apart before getting hold of a parts manual and service manual for my liking! If I was looking at spending that much money upfront with the dealer I would be asking for a SIS account even if only getting access to information on the one machine, Or failing that go to Nige's link to down load the manuals for the machine.
I was waaaaayy ahead of you Ken. How many $000 in parts bought already and no $600 investment for a Service Manual with all the "How to" in it .....? Here's a link just in case you're interested .......... https://servicemanualpro.com/ I have my supplies of popcorn in already........
I like mine with butter and a dusting of garlic powder if your serving! And maybe a good IPA to keep hydrated!
Just for kicks did the OP ever give the full S/N for machine? All I recall seeing was " A loaded 2016 299D2 XHP:" A full S/N would very likely let one see the "As Shipped" information which can be very helpful when looking on SIS for information. Especially with a machine like this that can be set up for untold different types of work.
Another DRINKING thread! Just what Ive been waiting for!
It seems to me, like he's got a pretty good handle on the situation..??
Except for his description of where he found it: "'....in its native habitat, a heavy equipment junkyard in the farthest, poorest regions of the US. (Hoboken, GA)" and then admits to planning for a job interview in Atlanta (for our other-nation members, Atlanta is also in Georgia). But I wish him well on all his endeavors. Neill Savannah, GA
Yeah, see the Peanut Gallery is why you don't see more threads like this. Why do you think I'm posting here? To ask for help? To solicit your insults? No. It's to bring y'all along on a complex project as a community where maybe you could make some constructive input sometimes. We are supposed to be trying to have a civilization here. Yes, I know you can't do a project like this, but you'd best not presume that I can't. You don't know me, and I am not like you. I could have posted alot more detail today but I'm now scaling this back drastically to reduce my attack surface. Some of you are your own worst enemy. And no, the Tesla is not a junker. I'm in the process of hacking it. Skeptical? Alrighty then.
Sorry if I wrote something you did not like but as someone who has been working on heavy equipment for 45 years I thought my thoughts on how to proceed might be helpful, guess not. And yes that picture of the old Mack is one of the projects I worked on over the years. Took it from something with trees growing up through it to the point it was winning awards in car shows and driving in parades, but what do I know!
Indeed, what do you know. Doing something for 45 years doesn't necessarily mean that you've learned anything. Usually the opposite in fact.
Quantum … You might consider the wisdom of the ages... Knowledge resides in many places. Mostly unknown to others. I would caution you on the cribbing of your machine. From the pic, Looks to be a good shove toward the already tilted base timber might collapse it to the side. I like log cabin style rather than stack. Requires more timber but makes for a wider base for stability.
It starting to seem like your here to cause problems. I don't know how you can claim to know what your doing after spending $16K on parts and not buying a service manual.
From what i'm reading Quantum is very advanced in his knowledge in regards to what he is doing. Besides it is his money he is spending I hope he keeps posting his progress. It will be interesting to read what he runs into until it is up and running.
Is this an example of the wisdom of youth? Kshansen has been round several blocks over his working life. You may have posted this tongue-in-cheek, but it comes across as plain arrogant. Keep posting, let the work back up the words if you're as capable as you say you are. I hope you're a better engineer than cribbing stacker.
hosspuller , yes the starboard side of my cribbing went wonkey when I was pulling on the engine. But it's not as unstable as it looks. the base 2x6's are screwed together to make a very strong laminate, and the 4x4s on that are also screwed. But the top 4x4 is not screwed as, at the last minute when it was being craned I found that the machine wasn't high enough off the ground so I added that last stack. Pushing on it, it is quite sturdy. However I do have the 1,400lb lift-arms held 3' up by one 4x4. If that ever comes out it could cut me in half. But, that's the breaks. Too bad for me. Let me worry about it. Tinkerer , it appears that you are one of the few good judges of character here. I can see about two others. Have I ever done this before? No, but I am a very good engineer. My day job is enterprise systems security consulting (nationwide) but I've done many other things on my own with no help, including developing apartments and rebuilding that Tesla from a bad front-ender. The whole idea of this loader is to regrade two properties I have coming up for permitting 5 houses each. I had intended to contribute here for the fun of all, but some seem to always make a place unsafe for the Makers and Doers. And I will merrily slap them for fun and not share. it takes ten times the effort to move forward, as to sit on yer red arse, growling like pervs. Request denied. And, I've just turned 64 a week ago, lol.
There's a lot of makers and doers on here, guys who have been there and back on equipment but manage to convey this without ramming down your throat how clever they are, or how very good an engineer they are. They've contributed on here for years without controversy. They're the guys I continue to learn from even after over 40 years around equipment and wish I worked with on a daily basis. There are also the guys who get the hump in short order with anyone who doesn't agree with them, or have a superiority complex, and don't stick around too long.
Anyone else notice that these three pricks still managed to find fault, when I'd posted NO descriptions and only one picture? And specifically stated that I am reducing my attack surface? They went to the trouble of finding fault even in these circumstances, because they reflexively rebel against any sign of thinking. I call this type, " Proudly Uneducated ". I contribute to the communities which deserve it, so we can all learn. I never never contribute to hostile forums where Mods do not control this toxic behavior. Include me Out.
I'm sorry you got a bad impression of these guys. I've found nothing but help on this forum, and really enjoy reading posts from the people that you seem to have the most problems with. Most of us work on equipment all the time, so what your doing isn't "rocket science" to most these guys. They've worked on far bigger stuff, probably in worse shape. Not too many would be willing to tackle this, because they know its going to be a ton of work, and the $ numbers don't usually work. You state that you want a "big boy toy", well - most of us are just trying to make $ with our machines, so we take a little different view. The numbers might work for a hobbiest, but they don't work for someone that needs to make $ on it. When I read that- I thought " here we go". Most guys that tackle a project like this, have some of the right tools and equipment. Not everything, but some stuff. Not that you can't take in a idler with a scissor jack from your toyota's trunk, but it wouldn't be what most of us would use. And I somewhat doubt you " overcame the breaking strength" of the hose fittings. Breaking strength has a little different meaning to most of us. It's just kind of obvious from the posts you've made, that you don't do this everyday, a lot of these guys do. No one minds watching through pictures, and we all like to throw some things out, but if you think that any of these posts are out of line and moderators should step in, maybe its you that's kind of sensitive. I thought the cribbing looked a little dodgy myself, and I usually think "if I don't say something, and he has that thing land on him, I won't sleep, so I'm just going to point it out." I don't think they're trying to say your a idiot, they're just trying to sleep well knowing they've said something. I think you are missing out on a great resource here, Nige and khansen in particular, have both devoted lots of time to people with problems, with little thanks. Sorry you didn't get what you were looking for in the forum. I don't think anyone was trying to "run the new guy" off- I think they were really trying to help. Maybe a hobby farmer site/ forum would be a better fit. Or just facebook it and make it so no one can comment on it. You can be your own moderator.
You seem to be the one unwilling to learn. Maybe you're used to being the smartest guy the room at your day job and were taken aback when we weren't impressed by anything besides your enthusiasm. Good Luck, Have Fun.
I also like the enthusiasm, but was hoping the OP would go into it with eyes wide open that no boss anywhere would want his talented mechanics rebuilding a burnt machine like this, it just does not pencil out. That is why it was in a junk yard. The guy who needs a machine like this and can't afford a new one is going to go out and buy a used running one. Experience says it would be cheaper than the time and materials to rebuild and that is why the skepticism from here. A great number of guys on here could do this project if they wanted to but it is just not normally economical. Not that they are being lazy by letting these lay in junkyards. There was a thread about fires in these type machines a few weeks back.
And there was me just about to contact the mods with a request for you to tone down your aggressive responses to people who were only trying to help you in your endeavours.......... "To see ourselves as others see us" is the phrase that came to my mind. I'm surprised you could even get through the door with a head that big ........... And just for sh1ts & giggles I'll put my mechanical engineering degree (try Googling IMechE and see where it takes you) and over 40 years working in the field of heavy equipment maintenance against whatever you've got. Draw when you're ready pardner ...........
Sometimes, toxic behavior weeds itself out...
Well, don't take offense but for me its the fact that a project like this is pure insanity to me. I cant even fathom the expense of parts and labor a job like this will entail. The unseen damage on these fire jobs raises the costs even further. Hell, I have 35 years of experience and am still doing it, and have even been involved with machines like this. My experience with them tells me to RUN! ……………..but hey, its your money and time! Please feel free to prove everyone wrong in your case.
and...…….by the way, Im curious. Have you even tried to find any of the parts for this project outside of your CAT dealer? There is usually numerous used parts available if you search for them. Could save some BIG money on some of this stuff!
Fellas..fellas.. I know we're proactive of "our site" BUT.. COME ON.. back-off a smidge.. He already conceded.. I think "we" should let it go.. Hell, I'm as arrogant as they come..& cant remember getting blasted this hard.?? Its his money, his time & his experiment.. he's just or WAS just, documenting his project.. I haven't seen 1 question from him.. just pictures & progress.. Now if he came on here w/ a pic like his 1st post & asked "what do I do now"?? it woulda been a different story.. This guy isn't even in the same universe a SteveA.. lol
Not really sure if I should make any comments here any more, seems I inadvertently tossed a can of diesel fuel on a fire by not carefully wording my comment about approaching a project as big as this without all the easily available technical information in hand. I'm going way off topic here but as the OP says "Include me Out." I'll take him at his word! I have nothing against someone using gut instincts or basic knowledge of how things work to take something that does not work and turn it into a working piece of machinery. A minor example if is that old Mack over the the left. One day the big boss got the idea to "restore" it to running condition after it had sat in a hedge row rusting for over 50 years. Now as you can imagine Mack does not have online parts and service manuals available for download for 1918 BullDog Macks and to add to the fun sometime in the last 50+ years someone decided they "needed" the magneto off this engine. I won't even go into the problems of rusted out water pump and intake and exhaust valves and valve seats here! But we did have the good luck of a boss who saw opportunities in junk and he just happened to be wandering around at an auction for an old gravel bed that was being sold and noticed on a shelf in the back corner of the shop some old magnetos buried in a pile of dust. Being the "honest" guy he was he tossed them out the nearest window into the dirt out back and latter after the auction was over and everyone was gone he picked them up and put them in his truck. One of the mags was for a six cylinder engine so that was not going to cut it for the four cylinder Mack engine! A couple others had various functional problems. However one was for a four cylinder engine and the impulse drive coupler seemed to work. I thought for a moment we were golden but then I noticed that the rotation of the mag drive on the engine would be turning the magneto the wrong way to have the impulse couplor work as it had to. Dang it so close! Did not have access to a Splitdorf manual, wouldn't you think they would have them online for download? So I spent some time looking at this wrong way magneto and noticed that there was more than one way to assemble the coupler and by re-positioning things here and there it was possible to take, say a clockwise rotation magneto and convert it to a counter-clockwise magneto. So now we had ignition so to speak! Problem was the mag did not appear to have a way to couple it to the drive. Dang it where is that parts book? See the magneto had what I would call a tongue on it's impulse coupler but there was no groove to mate it with on the drive on the engine, just another tongue. Well that was not going to work! One good thing is both the mag and the engine side drive were exactly the same height when the mag was bolted down to the mounting pad on front of engine, bolt holes even lined up perfect but there was about a two inch gap between the two. I needed some way to couple the two together and this is were I went way off originality on the project. I came up with the idea that if I just had something the correct length and diameter of the two parts and machined a slot in one end at a 90º angle to the slot at the other it would hold itself in place and the fact that there was a nut holding each coupler half on it's shaft a hole bored in for the clearance for the nuts would also help to keep the "adapter" in place. What to use??? Well one problem is we did not have any metal machining tools other than an old lathe so working with steel or other metal would be a bit of a trick. I came up with the idea of using something I could work with at home with my wood working tools. I did a bit of looking and found I could buy a foot long chunk of three inch nylon bar stock pretty cheap and that would be easy to cut with wood working tools. Plus the foot long chuck would give me extra material if the first attempt did not work out. As nylon was invented about 20 years after this truck left the factory I don't think it was part of the original design! Using a radial arm saw and more or less free handing the cutting of the slots and a little boring for clearance for the nuts and we had a coupler! I often wonder what someone will think when they see that nylon coupler in a 1918 truck engine, some probably will not have a clue as to how unoriginal it really is. I guess if I had bought a chunk of black nylon it would not stick out so much as that bright white nylon does! Below is a picture I took the last time I saw the truck back in 2000, not sure where it is these days, probably covered with dust in the back corner of a storage shed at the quarry where it went when it left our shop. The Name "Big Bernie" is in honor of the big boss who's idea it was to restore the truck. He was one of those high up bosses in a major company you could talk to like he was one of the guys shoveling under the conveyors out in the plant. Way too few of that kind around these days! Miss you Bernie!
It's a shame the thread went this way, I was looking forward to following the build. Quantum, if you're still following, Just keep in mind that there is a wealth of knowledge here, and I doubt anyone was being nasty, but offering some of their experience in order to make your life easier. I do hope you'll reconsider, as I and no doubt many others are interested. Also, I'll add my name to the list of those concerned about the cribbing. Nailed together or not, it's still high and narrow, and won't take much lateral force for the whole thing to come crashing down. I've seen it before. Again, I say that not as an attack, but out of concern for your well-being.
Well, just when something interesting came around the know-it-alls had to ruin it for the rest of us. Darn, guess I'll do a quick search to see if he's posting about the project somewhere else where they have some manners.
I don't think that's fair. The problem with text based forums is that there's no context for any posts. So how they are interpreted by individuals can often be very different to the manner in which they were intended . Also keep in mind that this site isn't just populated by enthusiastic amateurs, but also professionals with the benefit of many years of experience and/or manufacturer specific training, who know these machines intimately, and who know the pitfalls that go with them. To dismiss their advice is, IMO, foolish. With that said, there are often many ways to rebuild a Cat, and sometimes figuring out a way is half the fun. If egos are checked, than a good time can be had by all.
Don't see how it can be explained any other way. Not doubting what people know, just finding fault with the way they treated the OP and his project. The thing about people that truly have a lot to offer is they know when it is wanted and when it isn't. Most people think they have a lot to offer but in reality they're just in awe of themselves.
I just re-read it and my opinion is that the "ahem" more "seasoned" members were just giving him a little ribbing and very delicately suggested that it might not be a very economical project and he took it a little too personal. He did ask a question about the drive coupling which kind of opens the door for other suggestions. This is not a courtroom with strict question and answer rules.
Just like the OP then ......... based on what he told about his day job he's used to being the smartest person in the room and couldn't take constructive suggestion from people that he looks down upon because of his perception of their lack of formal qualifications and/or education. If you're still not convinced then I suggest that you check out his other threads. In every one he starts from a pre-conceived viewpoint and attempts to shoot down anyone who has the temerity to disagreee with his opinion.
Now don’t go doing anything silly Ken. We’ve lost far too many fine posters because of blowups like this, we can’t afford to lose another.
Heck I'm not even sure what got me started on that story about the old Mack! Looking back at this thread I guess I was mistaken in thinking the OP had come here, at least in part, looking for advice or guidance. Instead of just a place to post a story about how great a mechanic he was to be able to salvage this machine no one else was able to fix. Maybe if he had made it clear that no suggestions or comments other than "Great Job" were acceptable I would have not made the error of offering help that was not needed or wanted. I'm on another forum about a particular model of a Japanese brand of motorcycle and there are a few guys there doing restorations of bikes that involve more money and time than could ever be considered cost effective from the stand point of getting a functional piece of transportation. So maybe that was the case here. The idea was to prove one could bring this machine back from the "Grave" and not just get a working machine to do a project for less money that one could buy a good used machine by going to a used equipment dealer and have it on the job by the end of the week.
X2 I thought he was seeking advise myself. I think the majority of people that come here are looking for exactly what you said...…….advise on how to repair a machine cheap and quick to get it back to work. Ide be interested in what the final costs of this project will be.
I was watching a show just LAST NITE about car restorations.. The guy brought in an old car that was complete.. He drove it in high school, went out in his 1st date, went on his honeymoon in the same car to the same woman he had the date with.. & wanted the car resurrected to drive on their 50th wedding anniversary.. The builder asked what kinda "budget" he had.. The fella said, 80 thousand dollars.!!! The builder laughed in his face on national television.!! & said your probably gonna need to TRIPLE THAT.. The fella said, OK, go ahead & build it.. & they did..
Its funny you bring this up because my wife has one of cars. A 67 ford mustang fastback that she has had since she was 21. It was rusted out sitting in her brothers driveway for years and she wanted it restored. Im in it for 80K and it still isn't finished, and it will be somewhere over 100K before its done. I couldn't sell that finished car for half of that so its definitely not an investment. Guess its love?!
The thing about those "Stangs" are, there are SO MANY re-pop parts available.!!! Complete floor pans, trunk pans, roofs, hoods, rockers, wiring harness..on & on.. You can actually build a car out of a catalogue.. A 67 fastback..NICE.!!!
I would really like to see this project continue to be posted. I think it is interesting what people can do with a "junked" piece of equipment. I have fixed up a few basket cases over the years, and always came out ahead in the end. Good luck with the project anyways. Steve
So are you big enough to take some constructive criticism when I tell you that you were part of the problem with this project and this thread? I mean really, contacting the mods because someone didn't want advice, how sensitive can you be? You really think you and the others picking on him are worth that much?
Ok, enough. Nobody has contacted us about this thread. The OP was the first to comment that the mods should have stepped in. From the Forum Rules: No profanity or vulgar language will be permitted. Some words have been automatically censored by the message board program, any attempt to fool the censor program by misspelling or otherwise disguising words which have been censored will be considered an attempt to post the original censored word. Please use the same polite language you would in speaking with a customer. And: Personal attacks of any kind on other members will not be tolerated. While disagreements in opinions and procedures may arise, they must be handled in a mature manner. The OP, in my humble opinion, was the one who crossed the line. Certainly, any judgements of this sort are subjective, but clearly, "Anyone else notice that these three pricks still managed to find fault,..." would have been worthy of at least a temporary suspension of privileges had he not opted to leave of his own accord. Reference unsolicited advice: I've thought the same thing on some occasions, and done the same thing. I'll suggest that the discussion further upthread about the monetary aspects of the project reflects similar thinking. People who care can feel obligated to offer their wisdom with respect to whether somebody is risking their money in the same way they can feel obligated to offer their wisdom when somebody is apparently risking life and limb. I think the track record of the guys in question speaks for itself both in terms of wisdom and caring. I have the greatest respect for them. This certainly had the potential to be an interesting thread. It saddens me that the OP didn't have the great experience here at HEF that we hope to provide for everybody, and do for most. (Edited to clarify the subject of unsolicited advice.)