I was wondering if anyone could tell me why many grader operators run their front tires backwards? Can someone indulge my curiosity?
i would suppose it is so they self clean, but mostly to look like hell Pj
I've seen people do that for when they rotate them. Not exactly sure their exact reasons, but I'd guess it has to do with wear...
on FWA tractors without radial's specifically designed for FWA use we'll turn them around to improve wear, but lose lots of traction. oh yeah and to make it look stupid lol Pj
Pretty much everybody and every manufacturer I know puts them on "backwards". Provides better steering traction and was pretty important for snow plowing. In fact, when we see them on a grader in the same manner as on the tandems we're pretty sure the tire guy is an amateur.
or its an AWD Pj
Exactly....
Mounting free rolling tires "backward" is supposed to help keep a normal wear pattern on the tires. Or was it for better steering traction? I think they did stay cleaner, too. We found the answer to all of these questions by switching to a non-directional tire. Not quite as good in mud, but they seem to wear better, with the small block pattern not developing the strange patterns of the larger lug tires, and they seem to be better on ice and snow. Quieter too. I know that Goodyear and Michelin have some nice tread patterns for year round use. They can even handle a little mud, if you have AWD. The Bridgestone Snow Wedge is probably the ultimate snow/ice tire, but plugs up quick in the mud. Tire preference would be a very good subject to discuss. Even in our little corner of the world it is hard to get people to agree on what might be the best all-around tire. Too many variables, I guess
reversed tires this also helps for a shorter turning radius plus steering ,we always do this when we take off gripper tires for winter and change for summer tires. ontario canada
Welcome to the forum len740!
I gotta ask,,,,,,how? Pj
the tread patern is reversed there for our style of lug is a little narower front to back this gives a different angle when wheels are leand left to right not much but it helps
I drew a little set of normal looking bar lug tracks on a piece of paper, the way they would hit the ground on a normal (reversed tread) front end. Then I imagined them leaning into a turn. I can't see how they would help with any extra steering traction while going forward, BUT I DO SEE how they could help while backing up with wheels still leaned. Lean right, steer right going forward, lean right steer left backing up. This takes me way back to my WABCO 440. I think wheel lean was much more important to the operators of rigid frame machines with mechanical steering gear, than it is to newer articulated machines with hydraulic steering. Also, if you imagine these reversed pattern free rolling tires being pushed through mud, you can see how the mud might be pushed to the outside, keeping the tires turning. (you hope) There may be other issues with lug wear, and how the tire carcass may flex while free rolling, but my head starts hurting when I think about things like that. Any other ideas???
you;re a hard thinker smoothoperator ,anyway cary on!!!
Directional Tires when mounted on the front are mounted opposite of the drive tandems for cleaning, period. The tractive effort cleans the chevrons when mounted as a drive tire and the rolling resistance cleans the chevrons when mounted as a non drive tire. It does not help the turning radius in anyway shape or form; it can actually hurt the turning radius since the lugs are running parallel to the resistance when the front tires are leaned. This has long been known as the front directional tire parallax. Yes it helps clean the lugs, but what good are clean lugs when they’re mounted in the wrong direction. Study the patterns and look at the forces. This is why years ago (20 to be exact) I ran Non Directional tires on the front even with directional tires on the rear. Front end rides smoother; don’t have to worry about lugs being parallel to the opposing forces on the tire. Now I try to run all Non Directional. Leaning wheels is just as important today as it ever was and maybe even more so since these radials are all tubeless. Leaning wheels loads the sidewalls of the tires properly so you don't break the bead seat. Just a slight break of the bead seat and it's instant flat if your not running tubes in your front tires. If I have lots of ditching and slopes to work we put tubes even in the "Tubeless" front tires. With the power these new graders are putting out the front side draft forces are even higher then they were just a few years ago.
I do think that the only real reason for non-powered steering tires running reversed is for cleaning the lugs. I wish I could remember all of the details of how wheel lean and lug direction may have influenced how well an old straight frame no differential machine such as a #12 or 440 Wabco turned. You used everything you could to help turn those old tubs around. I started using Bridgestone non-directional radials on my 140G in 1989 or 1990, and never had the urge to go back to directionals. My 143H came with Michelin non-directionals, but the long "nike"-looking lugs seemed to wear badly, even with proper inflation and rotation. We carry dozer attachments all year, and v-plows when we need them, so we usually run 50+ pounds in our fronts. I use wheel lean alot when making heavy cuts, but not so much when riding a slope. Maybe just enough to keep the tread flat to the surface. My 140M AWD came with Bridgestone directionals, but the pattern seems to be tight enough that you dont notice any lug bounce, even when crawling along on hard surface. With the dozer attachment and a rear ripper with mounted packer, these machines are getting heavy. When I think back to the old #12 or the Wabco, I don't miss them one little bit. Enjoy the day.
Thanks, gentleman, for all the responses. I feel better that my thoughts about this topic have been validated. I was glad to see that people didn't think this was a silly question. Thanks again from the new guy.
i believe it for cleaning. they are reversed on airseeder bins ect for the same reason.
It was also thought that having the fronts reversed helped with offsetting the directional force of the load carried by the blade. This was more important with older rigid frame models in addition to wheel lean.
The directional forces are opposite on the front tire (non AWD) than the rear drive tires. On the drive tires the tires are pulling on the ground to move the machine forward. On the front the ground is pushing back on the tires to make them roll so they are turned backwards to get the same cleaning effect as the rears. Without it they would just ball up and slide.
Tractor-type tread directional tires self clean in the forward direction when under power. An AWD grader will have all six tractor tread tires turned forward. For tandem drive graders the directional tractor type treads are turned backwards on the front wheels. On a non-powered axle these tires will self clean when mounted backwards.
Try running without the counter balance aswell & feel the difference
Years ago when I was running an old straight frame Wabco, I had a retreader slap a bunch of rubber on a couple of casings and cut groves in them so they looked something like front tires on a 2wd farm tractor. It was costly but let me tell you, they worked a treat. You used to see pictures of graders with ribbed tires on the front, I suppose now everyone is getting the last cent out of those old drive tires.