Hi all. First post here. Looking to start a container rental company. I'm looking to do smallish cans with a truck under cdl I have a few questions 1. Hooklift or rolloff?? 2. Anyone that has either rolloff or hook like that is a NON CDL truck post the name and model and pic to help me narrow my search 3. Any advise. I don't know much about trucks or anything but I have a place to store the truck and containers at the end of each day. Thanks
I dont have any pics on my computer but we have two single axle hook trucks. One is a Ampliroll mounted on an International 4900 and the other is a Stellar mounted on a Ford F-800. We also have a quad axle Ampliroll hoist on a Kenworth T800. I will tell you that in my experience the Stellars are very strong but extremely slow to operate. The Ampliroll would hands down be my choice, they are very strong, fast, easy to get parts for and have nice controls. The Stellar that we have has crappy controls that are stiff and not really user friendly. I dont know if its just our truck or that its a little older (1999 truck). A friend of mine had a swaploader he bought new and it seemed like a nice hoist, i think they ripped off Amplirolls design...... My advice would be to take the time to find the truck you want...... the hoists are very reliable in general and i dont think any issues you have will be the hoist, more so the truck. The only comments i can make with a cable type hoist is that you have to get out of the truck to connect your container, whereas with the hook truck you do not. Hook trucks have an extremely wide range of bodies you can buy (utility bed, dump truck bed, flat bed, sprayer bed, etc.) Really the only plus i can think of with a cable truck is that you can set a box with a much lower dump angle, which mean if you have to place containers inside a building with lower head clearance you can do so easier with a cable truck. A hook truck you have to set the box almost all the way down and back it to its location. If you buy a hook lift i would highly recommend buying at least a 31,000# hoist, even if you intend on putting it on a 26,000# truck. At least that way you can haul heavy if you have to and not tear up the hoist. Good luck!
You're buying a medium duty truck now? You only had 75 threads about which new pickup and what brand got the best fuel economy and if chain lift or direct lift plows were best on another forum.
Right now I'm finding ally of single axle under cdl freightliner m2s cab chassis for under 12k then I just need a hoist and cans
I'm sorry. I have no idea what you are talking about
We bought a new Hino 268A and put a Swaploader SL180 on it in 2007. It was a good combo of hook and truck, didn't have a problem out of either. Several things I like about a hook over a cable. One you can push a container into place easier. You can place a can on an elevated surface like a loading dock which a cable can't. The dump angle is more like a dump truck, if you want to use the truck for different applications and with no frame overhanging the rear end it makes it easier to pull trailers if need be. We sold the roll-off company in 2011 and I still see that Hino running around with cans. If you were getting into a larger truck and cans, I would suggest a cable for one reason - it makes your operation more attractive to buyers if you wanted to sell its as the larger companies mostly run cable hoists.
I'm thinking what if I get a f350 and get a hooklift for it? I think I want to focus on smaller homeowner type jobs and my dad will work on big jobs? I've seen some videos on YouTube of an older f350 with a hooklift so why can't i do the same?
About 10 years ago, An ex partner and I had 2 stellar unit on 4 axle Kenworths. those things would lift anything you could fit in a container, even things that wouldnt fit. They are a bit slow though. I built a lube van, a pair of dump boxes, And a water tank to go on them. I was actually toying with building a service body with Autocrane when we went separate ways. Very versatile unit, thats for sure. Ive even heard of them being used as a tow truck.
Sure you can do it but it won't be enough truck to do enough business to make any money.:cool2 What we found very quickly is the money is in the 20 and 30 yard cans, not the 10's or 15's. The homeowner market is so-so but what you want is repeat customers, contractors and builders who order can after can and they don't want a 10 yard, they want 20's and 30's - that's my experience. Once you get a hoist and an empty can on a F350 you're not going to have much capacity to haul the debris your getting paid for. You need to study your local market and your competition to see what services they are offering. An F350 could haul a 5 CY box, maybe a 10 if it's just light material but you don't have control of what your customer loads into it. Sure you can charge extra fees for overload and return trips but your customers will soon find out that the service is not worth what you have to charge to make a profit. When you get into that small of a debris hauling market your competition is the city or garbage service providers grapple truck and the Bagster market. You can't compete with either of those and make a profit.
Kay I'm going to cross the f350 idea off the list... I'm really trying to find a truck that I can keep under cdl and won't be too costly to buy and run. I have a spot at a business where I can keep the truck and cans.. I'm honestly just thinking find a freightliner or internarional single axle non cdl can chassis, find a hooklift for it, a few cans and see what happens. That's why I want to invest as little as possible to start
Honestly. you might as well go CDL. the small truck will just be trip after trip. Pretty hard to make any money that way. Wood demo is light and bulky, concrete ans asphalt tearout is HEAVY. more than once with 4 axles I ran across a (private) scale at 80-83,000, Oops.For serious demo 20 yard boxes make sense. Otherwise your competing with the dumpster people and they dont take well to competition. My partner and I had a battle or 2 with the garbage guys.
I woth be able to get a cdl permit until I'm 18 and then I can get the liscne and lost the restrictions at age 21...
Agreed..... The most common can rented is a 20yd. There isnt very good money in the 10-15 yd loads, you just cant get enough money to offset your costs. Plus with a single axle truck you are going to run into people overloading the containers and you cant pick them up, which leads to nothing but arguments and problems. Not to say you cant make it happen, just saying that the cost of investment isnt signifigantly more expensive in getting a large truck which makes you much more versatile. Once again if you get a smaller rig i would go with something at least 31,000#. You are going to lose more business than you care to realize if you get a small truck and cant pick up the boxes. People....especially contractors talk, and if you dont have the equipment to do the job you wont get the work. Have you secured a place to dump in your area? Do you have the cost worked out yet? If not i would figure that out quick, thats how you are going to determine what to charge per load/ ton. I have a ton of 10 yd 14yd and 16 yd containers for sale, also i have another Stellar hoist i just bought and would consider selling, 33,000# unit. If you are interested PM me and we can discuss.
I have place I can dump. A recycling center. Not run by city or state I'm considering a bigger truck now but I have to wait until I'm 18 to get cdl permit to do this. I'm still trying to price out the truck and setup first
My mistake, I didn't realize changing 1 number in your username made a totally different person. First wanting a tricked out gator with a plow, then a brand new pickup and plow, maybe a medium duty truck with a plow, and now a hook lift truck. So many dreams and not a single picture of anything besides wanting pictures of other peoples stuff.
Okay great. Apparently changing my name on a complete differnt account is illegal. It's also illegal to ask questions. I'm posting this for my dad, he is the one that is going to start the business and I'm going to help
Guys I don't know what the issue is on the other forum and frankly don't care - It's NOT going to carry over to HEF.:cool2 So shake hands and go about your business.
If it weren't for dreaming, life would be boring, time to grow up boys!!!!! Dream on, it's the start of many wonderful adventures.
So if we were to go the cdl route would a hooklift be better or a roll off? Deffinatly a 2 axle would be better but not sure what a good cab chassis would be to use for this.
One other advantage of the hooklift in demolition, is that you can grab the box at a pretty steep angle and pull it out to load it on your truck. its amazing what other people will pile or park in front of your box. Plus when you set it out you can steer it into tight spot. As far as a truck goes, Get one that will be as short as possible for maneuverability. A day cab cabover would be my first choice. An auto trans is a plus too.
There's a couple outfits out there that make some nice hooklift or roloff trailers you can tow gooseneck or fifth wheel behind a 350 or bigger truck. That's the way I would go if were getting into the business of hauling. Cheers
I was thinking maybe a truck like this. It would make a pretty cool looking truck m.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing?id=111984465
I'm all for asking questions and gaining info but I think there is a point in which you are wasting others time compared to actually using the info towards a purchase or change in a business. When you go from wanting one thing to another to another without anything materializing along the way I think you are wasting everyone's time. Especially once it gets down to the point of asking if a truck with no power options and a vinyl floor will get better mpg then a well optioned truck because it's lighter, etc. Then when no one has the solid data you are expecting then that idea is lost and a new plan comes along and then that fizzles out too after wasting everyone's time again acting like a serious person who is ready to make a decision in the very near future. I like when younger people have big plans and apply them to create something great. But it seems that it's easy to have big plans at 15 or 16 then realize not to many people that age can purchase a $50k pickup let alone other larger equipment and justify it or keep it for more then a few months until the bank comes knocking.
If you actually read what I typed you would see that it's my dad that wants to get I to the business and I'll be helping him. Second thing I never asked if a truck with Vinyl floor will get better mpg. THIS ID HEF SO LETS STAY ON TOPIC ON THIS SITE PLEASE
As for asking to many questions, young people should not be afraid to ask questions, when you stop asking you stop learning, then you turn into someone who thinks he knows it all and wants to tell everyone that he thinks so, and if this young lad is wasting your time , don't click on the thread. Your attitude is wasting this kids learning time here on HEF. OVERWORKED!
I agree with that. I have no problem dispensing advice. And its worth exactly what you pay for it.
Thanks guys.. So back I to the topic, what kind of cabover could be an option to look at? What about like the cab overs they use for trash trucks? And suggestion as to what to look into Somthing like this m.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing?id=111922821
Ex refuse trucks would be a good place to start looking. I got 2 low cab peterbilts with 3306 engines and 654 allisons a few years back for 3200 apiece. Huge rear ends and brakes. Even had hydraulic systems intact. Built one into a water truck and the other into a Lube rig with hydraulic driven air compressor and fuel pump. Made a couple bucks on them.
Where did you find the trucks for that cheap? The only place I can't honk of to look is commerical truck trader
HEF is a big Forum and we have dealt with a variety of members, the "Orange Cancer" comes to mind. If you don't like this thread then unsubscribe from this thread and don't read it or post in it - it's your choice. Leave it to us Mods to moderate.:cool2
Oh my advice is worth every penny you pay for it and comes with a Georgia warranty - when it breaks you get to keep the parts.:tong
I got mine at a county auction.
IMO anything that you can drive without a cdl is a waste of time and money in the dumpster business. It would be difficult to develop a customer base if they have to call someone else every time they need a bigger container. You'll lose that customer as soon as they find the competitor that can service their needs. Hook lift is the only way to go for all the reasons already listed....plus if the truck gets bogged down and stuck, you can push yourself out with the box. :cool2
I only owned 1 roll off for about 10 years. The hook lifts were not even around when I built mine. I used mine to haul my bobcat to jobsites and then used as a dump truck while on the job. The one thing I know with roll offs is you can control the lift angle of the bin. I'm not totally sure if a hook lift can be done the same way. As an example if you had a dump load of mud a roll off could keep it in the bin without it coming out the back. I watched a hook lift and in that case it would have half a load dumped on the sidewalk. Others with hook lifts can chime in and tell me if I am right or not. Doug
The lift/load angle is lower on a cable hoist than a hook lift, however I doubt you would dump 1/2 a load of mud unless it was slurry, picking it up with a hook. We never had an issue with the contents of the box falling out the back when picking it up with a hook and we had a 60K hook lift but we never hauled any slurry.
Thanks, That's why I posted. I wasn't sure of a hook lift. The design seemed solid though. An added plus was no cables to replace.
Everyone talks bad about small trucks. Looks like SAMs hauling in doing pretty good in Denver. 10 trucks with only 270 cans.
If your going to start small, A small hooklift would be easy enough.
I have a single axle hooklift 33,000 gvw and a tri axle cable rolloff 80,000 gvw. On more than one instance I have dropped box with the hooklift and when going to pick them up I could not because they where over weight. I had on customer fill a 20 cy with pavers with no airspace. luckily I order my hooklift box's with hook and cable hookups.
Drewster, Found this post and had to reset my password as it has been along time since using the site although I lurk often. 7 years ago I joined the forum to ask similar questions. I had never owned a diesel and had no experience with hooklifts. I now own 5 and all of them get used every day. We have 20ft seacans, hooklift salters, hooklift cranes, hooklift bins of all size from 8 yard to 30 yards. I have made every mistake you can make with a hooklift. Wrong size trucks, wrong hook height, variable hook height systems. My best advice would be to truly understand how to plan your hooklift height and bin length to be compatible with a different size chassis. I have been limited several times bye compatibility issues. Many people start with 36" hooks that will challenge then as you grow or sell. The previous post of making bins both hooklift and cable lift is also great advice . Thanks again for the advice I received 7 yrs ago from HEF site members. I was one of those people with a dream and no money. I still have no money but I have a crap load of equipment now.
My dad has put the idea on the back burner for now. But we decided were going to get a international or freightliner cab chassis and put a hooklift on if. My question would we want a cab chais that used to be a small dump truck so a short frame or one that has like a box on it with a long frame? Than
I don't have any hook lifts but just from my thinking on it first depends on how long you want your bodies if a particular system will work on a short chassis second say you can get the can on you want will it be ass heavy loaded to the max? probably what I'm trying to say is the front end will be bouncing up with a heavy rear .
The biggest can we will want will be a 30yd. Smallest 10 yd. I'm looking at commerical truck trader for cab chassis and see a lot of then that used to be box trucks, those would probably work best for a hooklift truck right?
If I was going to get a chassis I would look an oil chassis in CA and in frame length.
Chat up a couple suppliers of the hooklift system, they will be more than happy to advise you. It isn't just about carrying the load and the length of the cans, you need the truck to be compatible with the hooklift system you buy so it will fit, and more importantly work safely and efficiently.
We really only want a single axle. Don't 2 rear axles would be nexessar
Who would you recommend to chat with? I have no idea where to start
Just do a web search on hook lift manufacturers and then find your local distributor for whichever ones you like. There's lots of used hooklift trucks around the country for sale you might find what you're looking for ready to roll at a better price.
Sure there's tons of hooklift trucks but were looming for somthin specific like a freightliner or international I'll see what I can find but ready to go trucks are around 40-50k I'm looking to spend around 20k
Have you priced out any hooklift sytems? I have no experience with them, but I have heard that they're way spendy. YMMV You are correct of course, if you want to get exactly what you want, you're most likely going to have to put it together.
i havent priced it yet but im talking to a sales person over at apexequipment.com i think they way im going to do it is get a freigltiner fl70 cab chassis and get a hooklift hoist put on by them, but im not sure how expensive it is yet
Yair . . . I'm showing my ignorance again in a field I know nothing about. You have hook-lifts and roll-off systems for the big bins and what are "dumpsters"? Are they what we call "skip bins" handled by a truck with a hydraulic frame and chains? Had call to use a service recently and I was very impressed with the slick arrangement for handling six cubic meter bins on a little Hino . . . he could carry five empty bins which would have saved some time each morning. Cheers.
Scrub, you are correct! From Wikipedia, edited for brevity: The word "dumpster", first used commercially in 1936, came from the Dempster-Dumpster system of mechanically loading the contents of standardized containers onto garbage trucks. In British and Australian English, the terms wheelie bin and skip are more commonly used (although they are not perfect synonyms). In some other countries the more descriptive term frontloader container is often used. Those little trucks are usually only used for shuttling empties here, full ones are emptied with a "packer" truck.
I think I'll just start off with a cheap roll off just to get the business off the ground tben build up from there
Yair . . . lantraxco . The little trucks do the whole job here, drop off the empties and then take them to the tip, they detach one set of chains and pick them up by the front to tip them, as I said it is very slick. And then, a few days back, something a bit like this went by all brand new and loaded up with empty bins . . . I have never seen the side load concept before except with shipping containers . . . I think I see the foot of a stabiliser showing on the other (kerb for us) side Cheers.
We bought one of our Swaploader hook lifts from this outfit in South Carolina - http://www.nulifeenv.com/default.aspx They are up in Mitch's neck of the woods. It was a small hook lift on a Hino 238A chassis. Scrub we call them roll-offs, dumpsters, boxes or cans. 20 and 30 CY sizes are standard, they get as small as 5CY and as large as 50 CY for bulky, light waste. Their website shows the different styles of hoists - cable and hook.
I'm going to try to build a cheep one for under 20k I'll do roll off first then go from there. Thts the plan if we can find a truck cheap enough need sonthing eith a 33,000# gvw
Ultimately though I would like a under cdl truck so I don't have to wait to get my cdl to drive it, any suggestion on what trucks could work?
Rolloff truck or trailer
Aaaaand, we're right back to the first page, not to be rude, but we've already been over this. By the time you get a hook system on the truck and the weight of whatever can you're hauling, there just ain't much payload left. But hey, if that's what you want, go for it. Personally I don't think it's realistic, but then I never let that stop me either! LOL. Seriously if you do go with a truck under CDL make sure you got scales on it, that way if you pick up an overweight can (and you will) you'll know it and can avoid the tickets or broken springs/axles. Good luck!
Maybe your right, just a get a heavy duty cdl truck so that way there will be plenty of payload, only issue idk where to look for trucks or how much I should spend on out first one
A good place to start - www.truckpaper.com
Correction to the statement above that a cable truck can't place a can on an elevated surface or loading dock. There is no reason a cable truck cannot place a can on an elevated surface like a loading dock. Unless the driver lacks the skills or experience it may be easier with a hooklift but is definitely possible and not that difficult.
Hooklift is to heavy for an F350. I started in 2010 with 3 -10 yd cans and a 1999 Chevy 3500 with the switch n go system a much lighter hoist. In 2012 I bought a new F350 and moved the hoist over from the old truck. Now I have 20 cans. The average weight of a load in 10 yd can is just over a ton and the truck is set up to haul 2 tons. If I was to do it again I would have switched to the F550 only because I rent to more roofers and I am limited to about 17 square.
A little late to join the party here, but thought I'd chime in. I started a business last fall and am probably going to disagree with everything you all say! I was considering setting up a business using dump trailers, figuring it would be a cheap "in". I could use my pickup to move them, so it would only be a minimal investment in a few trailers. I got turned on to hook-lifts and started digging. My goal was to fill the void that the bigger companies have left by not having smaller containers. I also wanted to stay under CDL: less red tape, no license, easier to maneuver in small places, etc. I walked into this with zero experience in the waste industry, and my only experience driving was in my dad's box truck. I settled on a 2007 Hino 268a...Pre-emissions and under CDL. It has proven to be a hell of a truck; I bought it from Brion Maguire from Trucks and Parts of Tampa (at his PA location). Then, I had a local company (Donovan....two thumbs up to them!) install a Pioneer hook (18,500 #) and a Pioneer tarper. The hook will serve 36" or 54" hook heights. I bought dumpsters from International Container...10 and 15 yd tub style with a 54" hook height. One of the big advantages is that the hook is higher and more visible, especially when it snows. I can't say enough good about the set up we have. We have a capacity of about 5 tons, which *usually* more than enough. We're filling a void that the "big boys" don't want. The cans are perfect for home cleanouts, smaller residential construction, and roofing. We've already purchased our second round of containers. Someone here mentioned the hook having an advantage because of the wide approach angle....absolutely correct. I can set the dumpster almost on the ground and shoe horn it in about anywhere. Then, to pick up...I can back up at a 45 degree angle and get it right on. Could the Hook move a little quicker? Yup. Would I like a bigger truck? Yup, someday. But, we found a void and we're filling it. We're right where we want to be after just getting in the business 8 months ago. I will say, I wouldn't go with any smaller of a truck. You just won't have enough capacity. I don't know that you'll find that much of an advantage in going to a 33,000# truck...plus you'll need a CDL!!! Is it THAT big of a deal? No. But I've found that the set up we have is giving us the experience and reputation that we want. When we grow, we'll definitely move into the bigger truck/cans...but for now we're doing extremely well. Our customers know what we offer, and if a job is too big we tell them so. They appreciate the honesty, as opposed to just jumping ship. We also find that people don't want to use the "big boys"...rather, they WANT to deal locally. Did I have to invest more than I wanted? YUP. But, when I made that switch it's when the concept turned from a hobby to a business...and in doing so we brought it to a whole new level. Do your research. Think it through. Ask questions. Take care of your customers. Take pride in what you do. Do all of that, and you'll do well.
I would like to build a way to switch beds on my f600 from a flat bed with sides to a longer bed that would touch the ground to have some thing winch up on or to a bed to pull a trailer. I plan on building it my self would a hook bed be better than a rolloff?
EDIT: PALFINGER hook. I said before it was a Pioneer hook.
Old Doug the hooks have a LOT of different options. Dumpsters, utility bodies, car haulers, septic/potty bodies, fire apparatus, etc. When it comes to hauling something with a flat bed, I think the hook has a bit of an advantage as opposed to a roll-back flat bed body. With the hook, you can put the body flat on the ground and then load the car or piece of equipment on it. It should roll on easier, because you're going up a bump, as opposed to climbing a big hill. Also, because of it being on the ground you can have a lower approach angle...an advantage if you're putting cars with low clearance. Then, once it's loaded on, you pull the entire setup onto the truck. You'll just need to fabricate some sort of ramp to get the vehicle onto the body. I think the hook is more versatile than a roll off, and you won't have to be replacing cables and winches. Good luck.
Old Doug I would like to build a way to switch beds on my f600 from a flat bed with sides to a longer bed that would touch the ground to have some thing winch up on or to a bed to pull a trailer. I plan on building it my self would a hook bed be better than a rolloff? I built mine with a ram to open up straight to the ground. Then pull it tight out of the way. Pretty easy!
How are you liking your containers from international? What is the pricing on a 15 yd can? What would you say the average tonnage is in your 15 yd cans from customers?
Some people like the hooklifts, because of you do not have to get out of your truck to hook up. But you still have to get out to open the rear doors to dump. There is more wear on the hydraulics on a hooklift (pump, valve, cylinders, hoses & pto) because of the higher oil pressure, almost 3000psi verses 2000psi on a rolloff. Hooklift cylinders are pulling the chrome shafts back into the cylinder barrel to pick up a heavy box, verses the rolloff cylinders push out on the reeving winch. Meaning the oil cavity of the cylinder is more volume when pushing out (less psi) than pulling the shaft in. (More psi). Also seen some cylinders heads blow off when pulling the shafts in, pulling heavy boxes. Another thing is that the hooklift cylinders have no angle to push to dump a box, verses a rolloff have rear of the hoist cylinders hanging down for more angle to dump easier.
The rolloffs in my world the driver doesn't get out to hook the container. To be honest I have never seen a cable and winch rolloff in the Northwest, but then I haven't been everywhere.... Standard of the industry here is a sliding hook, chain drive with twin hydraulic motors driving the headshaft to turn the sprockets.
I seen that when I was in Oregon. It is a chain drive system with a hook adapted to it. I only seen this in Washington & Oregon. I think the boxes slide on the frame rails, (steel to steel), instead of side rollers to roll the box on.
That's true, but due to the design with a good operator the frame angle is high enough that the hook takes the load and the rear rollers on the box, until the box is almost loaded, then the angle of the frame is reduced until the box is flat on the frame. There's typically only a couple feet or less of sliding until the box locks in. You can push back with the hook, and swing the box around a corner to a degree. On the other hand you can't yard one across a muddy spot with the winch line though, lol.
I have been building in the refuse industry over 40yrs.
Looking good!