I like to talk about rumors of new construction equipment and trucks as most in our business do. So here we go. I have heard that the new full size Toyota truck will feature a Cat diesel engine. I know that Toyota builds a very good diesel - just look at the Hino med/heavy truck line. But if Toyota wants to really get into the heavy pickup market it needs a brand name. :notworthy To sweeten the pot, I opened my March 07 (yeah I just got it) of Equipment World and on the inside cover it shows the new Toyota full size pulling a Cat skid steer. I know this is normal advertising but the Cat logo is boldly proclaimed on the skid steer. Not to mention the almost Cat yellow banner across the two pages. In most advertising such as this the equipment has no brand name on it. Like Chevy pulling a Case backhoe but it does not have Case anywhere on it. I don't really expect Toyota to have a Cat diesel - Cat could probably not produce enough BUT if they did there would only be one winner in Countryboy's poll. LOL This thread should get interesting.:bouncegri
Hmmm...Toyota pickup with a Caterpillar diesel engine???I have just on word to describe this probably future pickup COOL
If this was or is the case I will sell my Dodge in a heart beat to get one.:yup I have talked to several different Cat dealers and they all have always said the same think the Cat dose not want to get in this kind of business. The always said it would not be that profitable for Cat. :beatsme That part I don’t under stand.:beatsme Just my :my2c
Toyotapillar???
Do you think the ad you saw might have anything to do with Caterpillar sponsoring a Toyota team in NASCAR Nextel Cup?
Oh man, awesome. I'm looking to get another truck in about 2 years, that would put me in prime position to buy a slightly used one. Cat diesel or not, I think I'll probably be buying Toyota next. I'm a big Ford fan, but let's face it, they haven't impressed anyone lately.
Think about this logically for a minute. Toyota is a Japanese based company. Kubota and Yanmar have the small diesel market wrapped up. GM is using Isuzu diesels in their light and medium duty trucks. Then there's Nipondenso, Mitsubishi, Nissan and various other Japanese manufacturers with diesel offerings. Is it really likely that Toyota would turn to an American manufacturer to supply their engines? I'm not knocking Caterpillar by any means, but I put little faith in rumors. I'd like to know the source of this one before it gets out of hand.
Probably so but that is not as interesting as a Cat engine in a Toyota.:bouncegri
Toyota with a Cat engine. Now that would be one expensive pickup! Every time I looked at Toyota the price drove me back to an American truck. Is Toyota still as "proud" of their trucks as they used to be? How does the new one compare $ wise with equal features?
Aww come on it's just money.LOL
True, but look at all the confusion we perpetually have here about who manufactures what brand of equipment where. Who's to say that whatever "Cat" engine goes into it will have any truely American origin to it? :beatsme
The plant that makes the new full size Toyota is in Texas. Chevy and Ford both have plants in Mexico and Canada. Some Komatsu machines are made in America and Cat machines are made everywhere. We really don't have an "American" brand of anything anymore. The future will be ruled by Corporations not countries.
I love there commercials "We the biggest brakes and rear diffs" and the stupid tedertoder(sp?) one. Yet from 60 they only stop 7' shorter, and how many GMs have problem with the rear diff. The Dmax is a GM motor built in the US that Isuzu helped design.
There was an article the other day saying that both Nissan and Toyota were stopping any R&D they had done for 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I dont think CAT wants into the pickup market anyway. If they did, they would already be here. I used to think that Toyota was getting the CAT. At all of their shows, a Tundra drives out with a trailer and a CAT skid on it. And their NASCAR is sponsored by CAT. Anyway, I will find a link to the article and post it as soon as I can. OK I found it: http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070314/FREE/70312009/1528
Would hope the Cat wouldn't be anything like the 3116/3126 motors. They have good power but are complete money pits in a truck application. Sorry but not everything Cat touches is the best. The Toyoda just doesn't do it for me, have always been a Ford guy.
It would be interesting to see how many 3/4 ton and above pickups,C/C are sold by the big 3. Ford is the largest seller of pickups or as they say the F series - which includes the 450,550,650,750 but I don't consider these trucks to be pickups. I think Nissan and Toyota are playing hush,hush about their heavy duty pickups. The heavy duty pickup market is rather large with companies and gov't purchases and just look at what the Japanese have done with cars.
My brother called me laughing yesterday from the auto parts store.I guy there had a new Extra cab Tundra( ugly the excab is IMO) with a 20ft equip trailer and a big Case XT skid steer.he said the hitch was just about dragging on the ground,his chains were dragging,and his load had to be 11000-12000. He apparently watched too many Tundra commercials......:bash He left ahead of him so he wasnt on the road with him.
I like the Tundra commercial where the truck stops 10k lbs on that see-saw. Yeah - right. The other day I saw a F350 pulling a D4C. I didn't pass him because I didn't want to be in front of him.
I think if Toyota was going to be putting Cat motors in pickup trucks that they would start with their Hino line of med duty trucks to get it right first.
IMO caterpillar never made that great of a medium duty truck motor. NOt bad but had their fair share of issues. The 3126's, 3208's etc werent that great. I dont know how well theyd do in the light duty market. A lot of people say theyd buy one if it had a cat, id wait to see if it were any good first. Maybe theyll put a perkins in toyota since they already make perkins engines that are the right size for pickups, no tooling cost.
That was a good commercial although it was kinda exaggerating. :cool2 The best one was the "Toyota, Meteor Proof" commercial. I laughed at that one for awhile.
GM outsells ford easily if you count GMC as Chevy
i can tell you from personal experience in towing a rc100 (10000lbs) on a 2500lb trailer with an f350 dually that pulling let alone stopping a 10000lb load with a single rear wheel gas motor half ton toyota pickup would be an excersize in futility...there is no way that I can see to safley tow that load with that truck let alone stopping it in an emergency situation just my .02
And have you heard furd new claim there F150s are good for 11K. I guess the big 3 are going to start fighting BS with BS.
Actually if you look up the real numbers Ford out sells Chevy, GMC and Dodge Combined when it comes to pickups. Ford has sold over 1.5 Million Powerstroke powered pickups. IF i had to buy one today it would most likely be a Duramax. All this is for nothing though because both Nissan and Toyotas diesel programs are DEAD. Both company's announced that their diesel development program got there funding cut in late February. Maybe the Toyota would have been a "Perkapillar". Because as has already been stated the Cat MDT engines SUCK! From the early mechanical 3116's To the C-7's there all money pit's. I had a 3126 in a peterbilt 330 4 door to pull my big horse trailer. The local cat dealer set the trim codes and worked some magic and it put 355HP to the rear wheels with a 10 spd Eaton autoshift mated to it. That unit never gave me much problems at all. Sold it with around 155,000 on it and only thing major was all 6 injectors replaced at 53,000 Miles and some misc sensors that never actually shut the truck down. It always got me to the dealer. the other ones i had in company vehicles were Always in the shop for something. International DT-motors are hands down the reliability KINGS in mdt trucks. The new High torque HT-570 is a mean little puller. Cummins 8.3L ISC is pretty reliable too. Their only down fall is that they EAT lift pumps regularly and then the Injection pump fails soon after. I own an 06 KW T-800 with a C-15 Cat in it and you couldn't give me any other engine! Maybe a pre-emissions 1998-1999 15.8L 3406E. The Cummins N-14 was a great motor too but not an MDT motor as long as it wasn't a "Signature Series 600". The new ISX does nothing for me.
May I ask where you got your statistics from? 1.5 million is a pretty rounded off number and you didn't mention the numbers for the other brands. Good choice.
i don't have the numbers off hand for the other brands. I believe i got the number of powerstrokes from "Diesel Progress" OR "diesel power" magazine and the sales numbers from Light & medium truck owner and wards auto. Ford had sold one million superdutys between the release of the super duty pickup line in 1998.5 and 2001.5 and over 2/3rds of all superdutys are diesel. even before i had even seen the D-Max i said it was going to be the best diesel GM ever made for a pickup. Which wasn't saying a damn thing because all the engines before it were total P.O.S. motors. I would buy a Cummins but it comes wrapped in that POS dodge body. That and there mega cab is kind of ridiculous and their quad cab isn't a real crew cab. But there Asian (SP) Trans seems to have promise over there older 48RE unit that was about as reliable as the first gen E4OD's which didn't hold up behind the EVEN the non turbo IDI motors. The two current rides are a 2000 F-350 DRW, 2wd, AUTO, Western Hauler 7.3L power stroke Diesel. Right now has 293,000 miles on it and tows 27,975 Lbs. combined regularly. gets 16mpg towing@ 65-70MPH and 19 mpg empty @75+mph. repairs are new Trans at 150,000 miles (reverse was chattering but still got the job done) 8 injectors at 165,000 miles Ball joints at 185,000 and front brakes every 50,000 Miles. Other ride is a 2002 Excursion limited ultimate 2wd Auto 7.3L diesel with 220,000 miles on it. Repairs on this one were just 4 pads so far every 85,000 miles. And I haven't paid for a single tire on it since new. Firestone/Bridgestone keep recalling the tires that they put on it to replace the ones that recalled the first time. I still have my 1994 IDI factory Turbo 7.3L auto 2wd dualie. that has 220,000 miles it was a transmission EATER!!! 11 under factory 100K warranty then the last one went for 90K miles then the local re builder had to go through it 4 times before he got it right. I had had this particular truck modified heavily at 50K miles and ford still honored the warranty. ATS turbo upgrades 3" ATS exhaust pump set up, Injectors, more cooling capacity, and a bunch of other mods. this truck would flat walk away from first Gen powerstrokes and 12V lightly modded Cummins powered dodges. I'm not selling either one any time soon. I know 10 private owners of 6.0L that had ford buy them back. Don't want any part of the 6.0L. And i don't want to be a Guinea pig for there 6.4L program either. OR want any thing with a DPF for that matter. The newest chevy i own is a 91 GMC 7.4L 2x4 DRW 3500 flat bed Turbo 400 4.10 Rears passes everything but a gas station. A former employee of mine drove it 75 miles at highway speeds in second gear. OVER heated the living $*** out of it. never been the same since. the next one is a 72 super Cheyenne C-20
I'm not looking to debate Chevy vs. Ford either, not in this thread atleast. I was mainly looking for real sales numbers for all of the "Big 3". Where did you get the figures in the above 2 statements? I guess what I'm asking is where are the exact figures? I see commercials all the time where people say "I sold a million of this or a million of that" but did they really sell a million. Thats where the real figures come into play, to tell the real story. I'm not debating the above estimates, just wondering how accurate they are. :thumbsup
For 2001 Ford dealers put an exclamation point on a record-setting sales year with record December sales. For the full year, Ford dealers delivered 939,511 F-Series trucks - topping the previous record (911,597) set in 2001 This is for 06 light duty half tons Ford F-Series remained the sales leader with 901,463 units but sales were off 4 percent from 2004. Dodge Ram was also down with sales of 400,543 or 6 percent. Chevy was up 1.1 percent with 705,980 units while sister GMC was up 7.4% at 229,488 units. Combined, Chevy/GMC bested Ford by about 34,000 units. Both imports were also up: Nissan 3.7 percent with 86,945 units and Toyota 12.5 percent with 126,529 units. So they beat ford in the combined units in ALL truck category's in 2006 by 34,000 units. I couldn't find diesel numbers so this is for all light truck sales.
So Chevy/GMC sold more light duty trucks in all classes this year than Ford. Do you think this trend would be the same in the diesel class?
I don't even think it would be close. I personally see at least 10 to 1 ford diesels to other diesels. Most all fleet's run ford diesels. I haven't even seen a single Duramax powered tow truck ever. and maybe 3 Cummins powered tow trucks. Like i said earlier ford sold 1 million superdutys in 3 years. and 2/3 of those were diesels. also like I said before i read in diesel progress or diesel power that ford out sold dodge, chevy AND GMC diesels combined for the last 15 years. I DO have a call into my local dealer about this bad boy though http://www.internationaltrucks.com/...toid=b5047bbafac90110VgnVCM10000085d0eb0aRCRD he's contacting the factory and is going to get back to me. When a couple of jobs I'm working right now finally close out Its finally time for me to get a TOY.
Thanks for the information. I hope that didn't come off as an interrogation. I was just looking for some more accurate sales figures for a better comparison. I was hoping for a little closer run but after playing with the numbers, like you said, the gap is probably a little bigger than I expected. :thumbsup
No worries. I'm trying a million ways to distract myself from my own paperwork tonight. Its kind of working i might add. But it needs to get done so I'm plugging away at it. I looked for the actual numbers for diesel pickup sales briefly but The only thing i could come Up with was light truck sales.
Never seen one in real life so I expect pictures if you get it. :drinkup
when i get it im probobly going to want to spend the first month in it! i might just drop by and take you for a ride. Its going to be my first REAL toy i didnt have to build myself.
Aww, there won't be no room for me with all the chicks you gonna have piled in there that want a ride. But I sure we can find plenty of stuff down here to rub the "new" off that thing.
I don't think i want to take the NEW off it for a while. I have bought new trucks but not new toys. CANT say that i don't have to take it out and see what it will do though! Got to see what she will do for you in a pinch you know! That and for there MSRP i don't think I'm going to be getting another one any time soon after so i think that one best be like the fords and damn well be dependable! dealer has a call into the factory to see what the deal is for placing an order. even though i wont be able to take delivery till the 4th quarter of 07 at the earliest. That and i can actually pick the color! not many to choose from though.
I dont think the motor in those mxt's will be too great IMO. To justify the cost of the mxt (I have heard 50-70,000 dollars), your gonna have to run quite a few miles for it to be economical. Esp, in N IL where if you dont run miles, the body will rust out well before it is mechanically worn out. SO, IMO, your gonna hve to run miles to make it pay (if its not just a toy), so they should have put the dt466 in there. That would be a killer truck, I know they pry didnt want the long 6 in there, and front end weight, but the trans could take it, and would have made a killer truck. I wonder if any plow manufactures will make a plow for the mxt, I know a few guys who would probably buy it if they did.
That's ok If i needed it to pay i would get a Hino MDT. Cheep and dirty runs forever with no power to break any parts. for a little more money you could step up into a 4300 series international MDT. The 06 Kenworth and the F-800 do the real work and the F-350 Earns its keep constantly. The MXT isn't useful for a damn thing more than transportation. It does have a 14,000 Lb tow rating and a 2000 series Allison auto. The down fall will be its powered by A relatively un proven motor. Its a toy so if it runs i will be damn happy. Curb weight is 10,500 Lbs. The dealer salesman told me that the fully loaded every option MXT luxury would sticker with the MSRP being $126,950. I said "well work me up some Real numbers and i can haggle and annoy you down to $90,000 and well have a deal". he's a pretty nice guy and we talked for a bit more and he's looking into "hard numbers". It was either the MXT or A 08 Shelby GT500 mustang. I decided i would kill myself in the Shelby so the MXT won. And the MXT is a lot cooler than a F-650 Pickup or the useless International CXT with the dump bed. Plus i can throw a gooseneck hitch in the MXT and haul the hoses or the tilt deck with it if i needed to. And what the hell is rust? Oh its that stuff the guys get from driving on the beach right? well no beach driving for me. just California sunshine.