Finally I got to 'play' in my small borrow pit and spent about half the day there. For the first time I was using the dozer a bit off-level and I must admit it was a little un-nerving for the first hour or so. I realize it is recommended you work up and down a slope and not across, but when you need to work across a slope, how do you determine (dry soil) what is a safe angle? Since I have wide pads, does that help lateral stability?
as long as it is an even plane (no bumps etc.) a have found that the machine will slide before it rolls. I have side hilled on some amazingly steep slopes and even when I feel I can side hill steeper it jut simply slides,some times i wished i had side grousers to helphold the machine on the hill
1:1 is doable on some dozers.
Most narrow pad dozers will barely hold a 2:1 slope. A widepad and/or deeper grouser will hold a little more. Buy the slope gauge and mount it, then you'll see. Like Reuben said, It'll generally slide before it rolls over. But I have seen 'em roll over; seen a Case 1150E put over on it's side; it's not a pretty sight. Keep your lap-belt tight, just in case. BTW: the more angles that you work the slope, the better it will look. It's common to work the slope parallel thereto.:cool2 and diagonally.
Just thought I'd add this also. What governs when any machine will overturn is when a plumb bob fastened to the c.g. of the machine swings outside of the most outer wheel or, in your case, grouser pad. The c.g. (center of gravity) of most vehicles is located at the centerline of the crankshaft. This is why dozer engines are mounted low in the frame. Locate what you feel is the crankshaft centerline of your dozer, then imagine the machine tilting on it's lateral axis until that "plumb-bob" would swing to the outer edge of your grouser. That, my friend, is the point at which your little D39 will take the tumble! Same with most vehicles actually; a farm tractor's c.g. is pretty easily id'd by the p.t.o. from the rear. Imagine that same plumb-bob fastened to that p.t.o. shaft; When the plumb-bob swings to the outside of the outer most tire, that is where she'll roll-over. That's why dual wheel set-ups are preferred for mowing steep slopes. The farm tractor will have to roll laterally, a much greater degree, before she'll "roll-over"
A point to remember when getting close to critical angles is it does not take much for "game over". All that could be needed is a soft patch under the lower track, a rock, too much speed or raising the blade or rippers up high. A bubble type inclinometer would be a worthwhile investment. If in doubt, only work up or down the slope. John
Thanks guys! Y'all have been extremely helpful. Jason - I'll have to get the dozer on a slope and see how close I am to the point of instability with a plumb bob; I suspect the angle won't even be close to critical. I did have my seat belt fastened yesterday in the pit. When my little Kubota tractor was fairly new I was clearing out a drainage ditch for a friend and I got a rear wheel in the air the seat belt was on fortunately. I had a small magnetized bubble level with me yesterday trying to get a feel for dozer attitude but had no idea how to relate the bubble to an unsafe angle, now I will have an idea relating a bubble to Jason's plumb bob idea.
First time slope operations can be unerving. In time you will feel very comfortable. Another factor in determining the slope the dozer will hold is how rocky it is. As said before, a rock that sticks up will make your *** pucker when the up hill grouser climbs it (obviously changing the slope). Rocks will also reduce your traction. If on dirt the dozer will hold a much steeper slope before it will slide. Rocks don't allow the growsers to penetrate so you will have much more of a tendency to slide. You will also have a reduced amount of productivity due to reduced traction (rocky or not actually). Another thing to consider is the much higher track wear associated with side slope work. Especially if your machine is equipped with rock guards. Keep an eye on the rails and the edges of your idlers/sprockets.
Just remember that a dozer is alot more stable when traveling forward and working material on a slope than it is backing up across it. A simple way to tell how close to tipping you are is to stop your uphill track while your pushing across the slope, if the machine tries to turn you still have alot of weight on that track and can go steeper, if the track stops and the dozer keeps on going like nothing happened then you have no weight on that track and are getting close to the tipping point. I do know from experiance that in the right material a D-8K will suck air into the transmission lines and leave you basically stuck in neutral on the side of a hill before it tips :Banghead Oh and I almost forgot if your traveling across a slope with your blade in the air and you should happen to run over an eight inch steel pipe that is hidden in the grass and runs from the top of the hill to the bottom on a D-9, you will slide sideways down the hill at aproximately 573mph (give or take a few) and your butt will tear a whole in the seat...
I'm working in primarily caliche and soft limestone with only a few large chunks of limestone rock. A mental note to self was made to not let the uphill grouser climb on anything (including a pipe!) When I get back on the slope, I'll try to turn up-slope with the uphill track locked and see what happens. You guys are great - thanks for helping out this newbie! :notworthy (BTW - I was wondering how the D39 would do with my terrain, after working a couple of areas on the fence line and pushing/digging in my pit, it is plenty of machine. I'm sure rippers would be nice once in a while, but it appears I'm doing okay without them at least for the moment.)
stick to what you feel ok with at first but i had a d6 slip on a clay batter once and it did make my arse twitch a bit but only work what you feel safe with and the more you use it the better you will get
:notworthy
Yep different dozers have different limits, the when I lost the transmission in the D-8 it was on a 1:1 slope, we used the D-11N to turn it towards the bottom and lower it down the slope. The tranny started working and we never had another problem with it. I will admit to putting one on its side. I was working on a fire cutting a trail through the brush on top of a ridge. Being the youngest of the three I was elected to be the pioneer (lucky me). We were trying to reopen an old road that was covered in ten foot tall brush so we were basically pushing blind. I was pushing along when all of the brush in front of my blade suddenly disappered, not good! I stopped as quick as I could but before I could grab reverse me and the old D-6D went over the edge and onto our side. I slid about 15 feet down the hill on my side before the top of my ROPS hit a big redwood and spun me around, the thing tipped back up onto the tracks and the blade dug in to stop me. I couldnt climb back up the hill so we hooked my winch to a tree at the top, I pulled myself up and went back to work. Needless to say when the three of us rolled back into camp that evening and the boss saw my dozer had dirt and redwood bark packed into the screens and all the paint missing from the right side of the canopy I had some explaining to do...
I think it's great you are learning! Continue learning but don't get in over your head. If you don't know what slope is safe for your machine, you shouldn't be sloping yet. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but you're a newbie on a dozer I don't think you should be sloping yet. If you felt uncomfortable that was your common sense telling you that you are not ready.
Pictures Thought it would be a good idea to show some pictures of the pit or tank that I was working in so you can see the grades for yourselves. The truck in the picture is a Japanese 'mini-truck' (Kei truck) - it's roughly the size (probably a little bigger) than a Mule. I'm guessing the picture with the truck pointed up the grade/slope is at maybe a 30 degree angle? Maybe less? The picture with the truck across the slope seems to me to be about 15-20 degrees? I did not have the dozer on the more acute slope (the ~30 degree one) - wasn't going there yet
its pretty safe to say that a dozer will be as stable on any of them slopes in your pictures as it will on flat ground...
Angles In my opinon you will have no problems on those slopes.
When you talked about slopes I thought you were talking about 1to1 slopes, something steep like that. LOL The slopes the truck is sitting on should not really be a problem.
YouTube - Qball skis with a d7 this is a slope
YouTube - Hanomag Planierraupe Steilhang
Yikes!
He didn't ask what all the Brown stinky stuff was?
Went back in the pit/tank this afternoon and put her on the side of the slope (where the little truck was parked pointing up the slope) - absolutely no problem and could turn up-slope with no issues. I felt totally comfortable which was a huge contrast to the last time I worked in the pit/tank. I'm using the deceleration pedal all the time now to slow my speed down where appropriate or when I shift from forward to reverse. I'm doing much better with blade control but it seems like I'm almost always a second too late to react to a change of dozer attitude.
Operating a dozer is all about hand butt coordination. Once they get in tune with each other you will be in good shape.
Hello John, I happened to be looking back at some of the older posts on the Forum, and thought you might be interested in some of the perspectives on this thread. Maybe you've see it, but if not... a little bit of everything. Sounds good... getting the hang of it, keep up the good work... :thumbsup OCR
When I was younger on Camp Pendelton I did about the same thing on a D7g on a dare:beatsme. Problem was I didnt carry enuff material in front of my blade as I went over the road onto the firebreak and slid a hundred feet before I unfroze. One of the most stupid things I've ever did considering I didnt have much operating experience and it was another thousand feet before I'd reached the bottom. I always seem to be on junk widepads when I'm doing a steep slopes. I always bring extra sweatshirts to pack the side of my seat to help with backpains.
No, I made sure to clean that up before i went back. The missing paint on the side of the dozer was a little harder to explain... :beatsme
I know what ya mean.Once had an operator tell me he rolled a dozer.It threw him off and broke his ankle.Said it was hard out running the dozer with broke ankle.It was rolling after him.Bet he had to throw his pants away.
And that is why I am a big fan of staying in the cab! I have been over twice in equipment and the seat belt saved my *** both times. Ive been in over 20 roll overs (not in equipment, racing crashes) and the only time ive been hurt was when a roll cage failed. Wear your belt and ride it out, it is your best bet.
from looking at these pics i guess there are too many feathers on my legs and too wide a yellow streak up my back to have ever been an operator even when i was younger. had an operator tell me years ago i started playing with equipment too old. needed to be 16 when one thinks he is 10 ft. tall and bulletproof.
Last year I got thrown from the open cab on a 850. I landed with my crotch in the precleaner and shoulder into the exhaust. I was building a small 6ft stockpile berm around a jobsite. Got to the edge backed up with to much of the dozer teetering over the edge. Only reason I didnt have the seatbelt on was I just got done talking to the complaining neighbor. Was stupid because I was in a hurry slam banging the dozer after I was fustrated.
Even was I was young and stubborn I still always wore a seat belt when doing slopes. Steep slopes are the one thing I personally hate doing with a dozer, and land clearing large brush-especially when you have an open cab. We have a newer D6R now that actually is great for doing steep grades in my own opinion. Thankfully I've never rolled yet and can only imagine how that was for some of you. -Jeremy
Your right about that.Years ago we had no cabs are seatbelts.Operators used to clear timber with no cab.You know that had to be fun.
Here's a couple pics of some cleanup I was doing Friday. The little 51 wasn't even close to getting unstable.
What's that slope - about 1:1?
Hmm.. I didn't check it. I wouldn't think it's quite 1:1 but it's prolly pretty close.
I'd guess 35 degrees, but very tidy work.
more like 3 to 1. i've read this whole post and am wondering if anyone knows what a real 1 to 1 slope looks like. i work 2 to 1 slopes every day and am setting on the armrest. no dozer or any thing else is going to stay on it's tracks on a true 1 to 1 slope whitch is a near vertical wall.
I can tell you that I have had a dozer on a true 1 to 1 slope, it can be done with SOME dozers. Technically 1 to 1 is 45 degrees so it is only half way to a vertical wall.
1:1 is 45 degrees, or 1 foot vertical for every 1 foot horizontal. Do I win a prize? In my estimation those photos are of a steeper slope than 3:1. Just for the sake of argument, lets look a little closer. It looks like there is about 4' of elevation change from the bottom of the bar ditch to the top of the slope. If I had to guess I'd say it's closer to 2:1 (4' rise in 8' horizontal). If I'm right do I win another prize?
You're both right... and both win a prize... You gotta read the instructions... and put a √ in the little boxes. Here it is... http://www.mathopenref.com/coordslope.html OCR...
Not sure I am educated enough to visit the link that you gave.
i know i am not smart enough but if i live long enough MAYBE i will figure it out
I went back and checked today. The top pic was about 1.7 or 1.8 to one when I started on it. I cut it back a little cause I needed the dirt to fill the washed out areas in the bottom of the ditch. The finished grade is real close to 2 to 1. This is one I worked on today. I didnt do any cutting on it, just slicked it off. Finished grade is 1.6 to 1 which is about 31 or so degrees. LOL. Here is another pic of the same slope the guy on the hoe took while I was tracking it out.
I agree 100%!
well galute judging by the responses i must be wrong and judging by that picture,if that is 1.6 to1 then i have been on 1 to 1 for the last few days. i'm building about 2 miles of burms around a petrolum tank farm out here in houston where everything is flat. these folks are not use to seeing a dozer on steep slopes so when i got started the safety man shut me down. they wanted us to use track hoes. once they realized how long it would take using hoes verses a dozer i won. even our forman questioned putting a dozer on the slope. like i said it's flat out here so they like to keep there equipment flat. i'm going to do some math tomorrow and see what i come up with.
I know what you mean. I work with some guys from the flat lands. Most of em fairly new operators. I get a kick outta them sometimes. They are just not used to it. LOL. These guys are right. A 1 to 1 slope is 45 degrees and it's not that hard to do with the right machine. A 2 to 1 is 29 degrees if I remember right and a 3 to 1 is only 18 degrees. They sure seem more than that from the seat. LOL
I'll be the smart ass :stirthepot 3to1 =18.434* 2to1=26.565* 1to1=45*
Heimy, If you can't find that "degree" key on your keyboard....Hold the "Alt" key down and type "248" on the number key pad and you get ° Just one more thing that's clogging up my brain...
° I just had to check it, that is great to know. Thanks for the tip
° ° ° Kewl! Learn somthin everyday. Thanks.
Thanks for the numbers. Been a few years since I had to worry about being exact with slopes. Last few years all I gotta worry about is putting it back like it was. LOL. This is what I use for a slope meter these days. LOL. :drinkup