I have herd good and bad about going to an operator school, but looking at some of the success storys I am rethinking my after high school plans. I want to get out in the field and work but I also want to deepen my education in this field (since I have no experiance) to help me in the long run. I would like to start my own excavation company and know that I am going to need as much experiance as possible before I even attempt it. The School that I am looking at attending is NAHETS; ( http://www.nahets.com/ ) will it be worth it to attend or should I just get started out in the field? Thanks :notworthy
tech schools sux they give you 0 real world experiance!
In short, a heavy equipment school's certificate is not worth the paper it's printed on. This statement may shock, even offend, you at first sight, but keep reading and I'll tell you my story. If you really want to get into the construction industry, go to a state univerisity and get a degree in Civil Engineering. Maybe get some on-the-ground experience as a part-time laborer (while you're in school), do some internships, get some management experience as a project manager, then you'll be ready for your own company. Other have confirmed this, even in a thread with exactly the same title as yours ! (scroll down to the last response) Just over a year ago, I too, was looking into how to go about becoming a heavy equipment operator. Until about three months ago, I was looking for a school that would, in a concise program, train me on every aspect of earthmoving operations. NAHETS, billing themselves as a "premier" heavy equipment school, was at the top of the pack, specifically the "Oklahoma College of Construction". Surely, I thought, the $16,000 worth of "training" and pedigree papers provided by this school would set me far above other job applicants and immediately launch me into a brilliant career as a "Level Three" operator. Wrong!:Banghead Read on... Over Christmas break last December, I took a day and went down to visit "OCC" in person. At the time, I was enthralled by the atmosphere of the place - the nice carpet, the heavy equipment pictures, the diecast models, etc. However, now that I look back on the experience, I realize that there were subtle issues about the place that should have been bright red flags - I mentally "swept them under the rug", because I thought I had found perfection. First, the most striking issue was the group of "hotel packages" offered by the school for out-of-state "students", such as myself. For the nine week stay, the school had "negotiated special rates" with some area hotels. I personally visited the hotels listed and found them to be, at best, substandard. A fellow at the front desk of one hotel, which had terminated their agreement with the school, told me that he used to work at one of the other "package" hotels, where several rooms had been burglarized. This planted the first seed of doubt in my mind. Second, despite some of the nice finishes, the school itself was, in fact, located in a storefront office building, not a separate building, as you might hope to expect. The "field" site, where the "hands-on" training is done, was a few miles down the road, behind the yard of a rental company, which brings me to my next point. Third, for the extensive training on all varieties of equipment that the school boasts to provide, their selection of equipment is severely lacking. For instance, the highest "level of study" teaches you how to operate the motor grader and the mighty excavator, yet the only excavator in their field was humble CAT 312 LCR. This was the machine on which every "level three" student had trained - no doubt some have done so with the hope that these "skills" would be easily transferable to a job operating a 385...:Banghead I could go on and on about my experiences while researching heavy equipment schools, but I won't. Instead, how I found the direction I'm heading today. It started in mid-May of this year, when I decided to use a little common sense on this heavy equipment career thing. That is, I got in contact with some people who were already at the place I wanted to be eventually, found out what they did to get where they are, then planned to do that myself. Through another forum that I am a member of, I came in touch with a project manager for a large demo company. I asked him how he got to where he is today. In a very lengthy reply, he told the inimitable story of how he started out and worked his way up. At one point, he went to a heavy equipment school, but, almost casually, said that his time there was hardly worth mentioning. I was somewhat shocked and completely confused as to how this bastion of my future plans could be so easily dismissed. After the initial shock, I pulled myself together and politely asked him to elaborate on this point. He named the specific school that he went to and told me of his experience there. He first noted that heavy equipment schools "teach the very basics, mainly to people who can't tell you the difference between a dozer and a loader." Furthermore, he wrote, "in my school, the (3) instructors were, an over the road truck driver, a farmer, and a police bomb tech, they had no background in operating and here they are trying to teach me about running equipment." The final blow was that, in the four weeks he was there, he was only able to spend three (3), yes three, days on each machine ...all this for a total of $10,000... I immediately googled the school he named and found their website. I compared this school directly with NAHETS (OCC) and found the two to be almost completely identical in terms of what they offered (job placement, three "levels of study", paper certificates, etc.). At this point, common sense kicked in again and I objectively compared his experiences with what I knew about NAHETS and their school, OCC. I'll never know how basic the NAHETS instruction gets, but this first point made me a little wary of spending all that money The instructors at OCC claim to have a little more experience operating, but most of their experience seems to be with cranes After some simple math, using numbers directly from the OCC website, I made a dealkilling discovery. Observe: OCC's "class schedule" shows four days each week, four hours each day to practice hands-on, in the dirt, with the actual machines. Last time I checked, 4 X 4 = 16. Now 16 X 9 (weeks of "class") = 144 (total hours of actual seat time) over the entire duration of the course - not a bad start for, say, an excavator, but no, all that time is spread out learning twelve different machines. If we divide these 144 hours by the 12 machines, the answer is simply 12 seat hours per machine; if you only get four hours each day to operate, then, for $15,000, you only get to spend (gasp) 3 days on each machine!!! Several people I have spoken to in the construction industry, many of them on this forum, have recommended a civil engineering degree as the best way to start off in the industry. In the meantime read some good books, like Pipe and Excavation Contracting, Moving the Earth, Estimating Excavation and the Excavation and Grading Handbook. I've been exactly where you are now - I wish you well with your future plans!
I completely agree with this post. Pay special attention to this last paragraph. I came out of high school in 1960 with no real plan of any kind, additional education back then was important, but not as much as today, now it is almost imperative in any business, at any level. Continue your studies, even if on a part time basis, and most important learn (business management). Look at several types of equipment dealers, and make contact with their sales people, in many cases they have demo units that potential customers can operate on site (some will and some might not). A good sales person will know that any thing they do to help you now, will make a big difference later, when you reach the point of commitment.(DON'T BLOW SMOKE) they can tell most times what your thinking, and what your doing. They might even lead you to a job that lets you MAKE money while you learn. Whatever you do, make plans to get a piece of paper that means something. Good luck with your plans. Ron
:scool AWESOME, I never thought about getting a civil engineering degree. That really opened the door for me and now that I'm thinking clearly I am going to take the advice. I havnt brought this up on this forum yet because I know that everyone here is going to say that Im a retard. I go to school now for Computers I have recived my A+ certifaction and am working my way up into the world of networking. I built my first computer when I was 8 and have loved doing it as a hobbie ever since. I could never do it as a job though just sitting there doing NOTHING would kill me. ointhead Now HvyEqp_Obsessed some of these books that you are recommending where might one find them? One more question about working part time, can I do that? My uncle is a machanic for a excavation company here called RAM Contractors (this is the company that I would like to work for) and after talking to him Im under the imperision that they wont let me do that its either full time or no time.
I'm sure you can find somebody looking for part time help. I'm sure your uncle knows other companies in the area also where you can look. Even if in the begining if your not making alot of money but getting some experience around the shop and jobsite, if nothing else you learn a few things and get to meet some people. Good luck!
No problem! I'm always glad to help! I found them all on Amazon.com: Pipe and Excavation Contracting - a great little book that teaches you all about estimating, bidding, doing the work, etc. in a very practical, no-nonsense, down-to-earth (pun intended ) style. Moving the Earth - This is the most expensive of all the books I listed, but it's worth it. It discusses both the work - from blasting a stump to digging a trench to underground mining to management techniques and everything in between - and the equipment used to do it - from the components of a diesel engine to specific operational techniques - in great detail. I learn something new every time I open it up. It's so thick, my parents call it "the Tome". Estimating Excavation This was recommended by someone on this forum (sorry, I don't remember your name), but I haven't had chance to sit down and read it yet. Excavation & Grading Handbook This was recommended by someone on this forum (same as above; sorry, I still don't remember your name), but I haven't had chance to read this one either. Ever since this past May, I've been looking for a job with an excavation company, just to get some practical experience. I went, in person, directly to company offices, well-shaved, nicely dressed, with a handy stack of resumes in a folder. I was ready to work. The larger companies said they only hired union folk and gave me the number for the apprenticeship program, which wasn't the way I wanted to go - even then, they said, it would be hard to find work, as the hall was already filled with experienced guys that had been laid off. The smaller companies told me the same story - good friends and experienced workers laid off to keep the business solvent. Only now, three long months later, do I have a solid lead on a part-time laborer job - which I was only able to approach through networking with some good friends. It sounds like you have a good opportunity there - not too long ago I would have deeply envied your situation: a family reference who can vouch for you and the opportunity to get some practical experience in the field. With regard to full time and part time work, while in school, I would say that you have to know what you can handle - don't get too much on your plate. When I was taking 15-16 credit hours worth of classes, I was able to work part time on weekends and still do all my homework and papers. Last semester, when I had a three (3) credit class remaining before graduation, which I took as a night class, I was able to work full time. If you do want to work full time while in school, or if that's your only option for getting some practical experience, many colleges offer evening, weekend and, now, internet classes. Don't work full time while taking 15-18 credit hours worth of classes, unless you can survive on four hours of sleep and don't care about having a life. If you haven't picked a college yet, I would recommend that you look into your local community college system. Around here, they have a series of transfer agreements with the state universities, which allow you to take the first the first two years of a university's credit program at the community college, where it's (very often) a third of the price.
Thanks for all the the advice, today after school Im going to a Case dealer to see about working part time or an internship. I would go to the Cat dealer if it was closer its like a 45 minute drive were the Case dealer is only 5 minutes from the tech school I go to the second half of every day. I hope it works out and I hope that I can gain some good experiance.
Again, no problem! I wish you well in your future plans!
This is what I’ll say about school: Point blank is you need a certified degree in order to make good money today----> in 10 or 20 years you’ll thank yourself for making the sacrafice of going to school instead of just finding a job and making quick dollars. Had I not joined the service and paid 1,200 dollars for my GI Bill there is no waay in hell I would have been able to afford going to school. I’m in my 40’s and that is not the time to start a college degree, but I had no choice the jobs are going away to illegals and I needed to put food on the table. In short I am almost finished with my degree and I’ll have two minors. You can always get other certificates along the way but no body can ever take your degree away from you. Make a risk chart of the pro’s and con’s of going to school and then see what the chart tells you. Be open minded and truthful and I think you’ll see going to school be it hard and laboring will be the best decision in the long run because you are just starting out in life, as with me I am ½ over in my life.
I think the school thing is the best route for sure, you want to work smart, not hard. a university degree is a licence to make alot more for doing alot less in most cases. but for some people a university degree just isnt an option for one reason or another. so if you are really serious about running equipment your best bet is to find a place that has equipment that you want to run, and then try and get in at the ground floor and work your way up. no owner in their right mind is going to put a new kid right on their $XXX XXX piece of equipment right off the hop, you need to gain their trust. a shovel or a broom is a good place to start if you want to run equipment, show up a half hour early everyday for work and dont blow shifts. be the first one in line for the crappy jobs, and more than likely the good ones will start coming your way. I started applying at a place I wanted to work a long time before I got hired but I was persistant and told them that I would do whatever needed to be done, I wasnt picky. I worked my way up pounding stakes, cleaning up, whatever... then they put me on a packer which I drove for a while in the scorching heat, they saw that I was trustworthy, so they put me in the air conditioned dozer, then excavator, grader etc.. its a good plan that usually works out, but go the school route at all costs first, you will never regret it!
Cool thanks for all the advice. I hope that this thing works out at the Case Dealership, if not there is a guy here in town that has let me run his equipment before (under his supper vision of course) so maybe I will get in touch with him and see if he needs any help......
I went to the "school of hard knocks" my parents wanted me to be a doctor,lawyer, or a fireman. I said why on earth did you give me Tonkas,Nylint, and Ertil when I was growing up? I'll either drive a truck or run heavy equipment. I agree also if you can afford and have the opputunity to get some schooling,go for it. If you want real world experience get your hands on but you might be working with illegal aliens,or worse making the same pay. I'm currently a "refferral applicant" at Local 520 for the last 5 yrs. in Illinois near St.Louis which has its major ups and downs. Good luck with your search.
I cant stand the illegals........If Im working anywere I know some of the local companys wont hier Mexicans Period because of past problems and the problems that are still going on, those are the companys that I will try my hardest to get work with.