I have a contractor working in my landfill that is using seven 631E's to move 330,000 cubic yards of shale. I have run scrapers off and on over the years but I'm no operator. The contractor is ripping the shale 3 feet deep across the floor of the excavation. Is this an accepted practice? I was raised to believe this is a no-no, as the bowl will not fully load. They also run the nastiest cut I have ever seen. The scraper hands never drag the haul road and they carry the bowls at the highest level. Am I being to critical? What are your thoughts?
It's better not to disturb the dirt first, but maybe the ground in the cut was so hard there was no other way? No you're not being too critical. Sounds like they are breaking in a bunch of noobs.
Thanks for the response Buckethead!
Hope your contract is structured per yard. Winds like they are not as efficient as they should be.
It is on a per yard basis, but at this rate they may be here past September.
I always watched to see how any scraper operator carried his bowl. Mine was never more than a couple inches of the ground. Myself I think you got a better ride carrying the bowl low.
Stump, that is the way I was raised as well. These boys are not operators but they are starting to move some dirt.
I know that some Pull-Pans have an automatic Cushion Ride feature that activates once the bowl is 4-6 inches off the ground. It will not kick in if the bowl is lower than 4 inches or if the scraper is riding too high.
You can't go that low with a cushion hitch, the blade will dip into the haul road when you hit a bump. Always hate to see a scraper to high, it is a bad habit many operators have, about a foot high in normal conditions is about right IMO. Pretty sure your not going to load shale without ripping.
digging deep and tipping high sounds abit novice and carrying the bowl up way high is not cricket really.However if the shale is being ripped because it's really packed it may explain why the cut looks rough.In some conditions a rough cut allows you to 'gulp' the muck into the bowl(with the apron way open) and get pushloaded quickly.It looks dreadfull but good operators start to clean up and keep it tight an hour before finishing time.Sand can be moved this way for instance whereas good muck can be 'shaved off' and kept very tidy throughout the day.
Yair . . . well said nicky68a . I have no time for blokes being "precious" with the appearance of the cut, tidy up for shift change if you want to and dig a sump if it looks like rain and you're shutting down all night . . . and of course you have to rip shale and in sand you have to pump. I have to say that "good muck" was a bit hard to come by during my career. (big grin) Cheers.
Sounds like they are doing ok to me too. Is there anything in that part of TX you can do with a scraper without ripping first? Other then top soil. As long as they are running hard who cares if they drag the roads. Its there back...
Scrapers spending time dragging their roads may work on a small job, but it is a huge time waster on a big spread. The scraper can't make the road as good as it needs to be for top production, and it slows them down too much to try. A blade, or better yet a BG (towed scraper) will do a better job, and will pay its cost several times over in increased production. The added bonus will be a cleaner job, less tire wear, less wear and tear on hitches, frames, and the backs of the operators. It does not matter how hard they run, if the roads are well cared for, production will improve.
When Disney was building EPCOT I ran a 631. The haul road was maintained with 2 16G's a 12F and a 5,000 gal water wagon. We averaged 25 plus load's a day per scraper. Fun job as the haul road was like a freeway!!
I was thinking about this some more. I know that shale around here, as you cut deeper below the existing grade in virgin ground, the shale starts to break out in bigger pieces. If the shale is like that where you are, (I guess it is, or it wouldn't be shale, lol) that would explain the ripping, and also possibly the rough cut.
I guess you're talking about stripping overburden in a mining operation? Or maybe a really deep cut until you get close to grade. But I think for grading with scrapers it's productive to keep a nice cut going, so when you get down to grade you don't have a bunch of holes and hills to fix. Not talking about stopping production during the day to drag the cut or anything like that mind you, just take neat, even cuts, when you pull in to the cut, try to clean up. Just my .02.
Yair . . . Buckethead . I guess to some extent that comment applied to what we call "tanksinking" with tractor drawn scrapers . . . the object being to excavate a hole (say) 200 feet square and perhaps 15/25 feet deep with 3:1 slopes (batters). Obviously once you get down a bit the length of floor for loading becomes restricted and yet I have seen fellers "shaving" across the whole length of the very limited cut to 'keep it nice and neat'. I don't work like that at all. I rip that floor as deep as I can, cross rip if its gnarly, I put the scraper back on and come down the 3:1 fast with the cutting edge just feathering the slope, the tractor levels out on the nice soft ripped floor and I loose the rope and let the scraper bog in or "gulp" with a wide open apron right to the bottom of the rip . . . maybe two or three of feet of cut, lift it out as the tractor loses traction, a pump or two and she's full and I'm out of there heading for the nearest corner. I take a couple of loads out like that (sort of like slot dozing)you can sort of jack-knife the tractor around the pile and line up the scraper and "gulp" the pile of dirt you left behind when you lifted the bowl on the previous load . . . the tractor can travel fast as the ride is smooth due to the ripping. Once you have 'opened up the floor' it is some times possible to come in the other way and "gulp" the pile you left behind, drop the scraper in deep and finish the load with the tractor pulling hard on the unripped floor. It's a bit hard to explain and, as I said, it's not pretty but I would load the scraper three times in the length "the keep it tidy" brigade would take to get a three parts load. It is a different mind-set and technique obviously could not be applied to some of the machinery used today. On the other hand I have recently watched a cut being worked with open bowls and pushers that (in my opinion) would have loaded quicker and been far easier on the machines had the ground had been ripped. Just some thought some thoughts from a dinosaur. (big grin) Cheers.
I understand Scrub Puller, it sounds like room to load is limited for you. If it works for you and your equipment I guess you've adapted to the situation, makes sense.