Saw this on the news yesterday. Looks like they threw the operator under the bus: http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/investigations/2015/04/16/seattle-tunnel-project-crane-accident-august-2014/25909619/
Yeah, we've all heard that story "If you feel it's unsafe don't do it, we'll back you 100%" Yeah, back you right out the driveway with your pink slip. How dumb do they think we are? And the guy sez "3,000 pounds was inconsequential on this lift" 50 pounds might make the difference between tipping or not if you're that close to the end of the load chart. Errors stack and charts aren't always exactly correct for a given machine set up in a certain way. And tell me this, if actual weight is so important, why the hell don't they have a load cell on the hook so they KNOW what the actual is? The operator made a mistake, but in my humble and unwanted opinion if they don't want to see bodies coming out of the hole, they should have cleaned house in the management ranks to make examples of them.
I've heard a story from with in the company I work for of a crane operator telling management that he needed to relocate the crane to make a lift. He was told that if he can't run the crane they will find someone who can! Well when he did try to make the pick the section of the hydraulic cranes boom failed! So of course they fired the guy who I hear was only a few weeks from retirement. No one was hurt but management has to put the blame somewhere and we all know management is NEVER at fault.Yes the operator should have said on but when boss is standing there yelling at you it can over ride ones better judgement. Another time while positioning a crane to make a pick a different operator was cabling up while being directed by someone on the ground. Guy directing the operator had someone walk up and ask him a question. While being distracted the crane two blocked snapping the cable and the hook and ball fell and killed the guy directing the crane operator and also injured the guy who interrupted him. Yes crane is equipped with an anti-two block system but it was turned off for transporting. That operator was NOT let go. Can't have anything to do with the fact he is a hunting or fishing buddy of the big boss for the company could it?
A hole to pour money into. I'm not surprised about anything I hear about that project. They also had an accident on the north portal of that project. http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/seattle/2015/02/12/sr-99-tunnel/23311865/ The news media only picked up on the internal investigation, where are the state and federal investigations and who is going to get shielded in those processes? Here is another senseless accident that happened last week that doesn't involve a crane but was of the same type. Right now everyone is pointing fingers but nothing has been done. Apparently there was no plan or safety people on site either. These accidents are starting to have a common theme. http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/2015/04/13/state-route-410-bonney-lake-fatality/25720147/
I'm not sure about bigger projects like that but in the lighter construction that I do there is no OSHA. The state basically kicked them out and decided that they could do it better themselves (read: make more money by doing it themselves). Labor and Industries writes the rules, enforces the rules, and collects the fines. They also oversee workers comp. Last time I checked their rate for what I do was $3.88/hr. I don't have employees so I don't have to deal with them. I don't know how all that works on larger projects especially when unions are involved. I'm sure there are a lot of greasy palms though.
Not quite how it works. OSHA wasn't "kicked out", the state took over enforcement of worker safety with the help, blessing and supervision of OSHA. Federal rules remain the minimum, and are adopted by the states, or more stringent rules are adopted. I think it's irresponsible for you to suggest that pay-offs are involved, especially since you apparently do not deal with WISHA. I have been audited and inspected several times by WISHA (as well as OSHA and CalOSHA) and they have always been reasonable and professional. We were never hit with a fine, but did receive correction notices. There has never been a hint of impropriety. https://www.osha.gov/dcsp/osp/faq.html
That's great that you have had a better experience with them. btw- WISHA is an act not a government entity, L&I is who you would have dealt with. My personal dealing with L&I has been far below what I would consider reasonable and professional on multiple occasions. Sadly, I just consider it the norm for them. They have tried to fine me a multitude of ways without any luck. I've been flat out lied to by them in attempts to coerce me. Back before I had my own license and was an employee I saw how they treated my employer. That's why I made my coworkers partners in the company when I started it, we shared everything equally. L&I hated it and thought we were "cheating the system". I had to know the rules as good or better than the inspectors and they still tried to fine us all the time. If they spent as much on education as they do enforcement workers would be better off. Unfortunately there's no money in that. I guess it's not really impropriety when it happens over the table, sorry to suggest otherwise.
Amazingly different experiences we have had with WISHA Expect your "partnership" dodge to possibly not survive a challenge http://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=296-126-002 http://www.lni.wa.gov/workplacerights/files/policies/esc1.pdf
It's not a dodge and I'm offended that you would suggest my company is shady. You simply don't know what you are talking about. We have survived multiple challenges. They've tried just about everything, hence my lack of respect for them.
If you say so. The law clearly only exempts executives, officers of the corp., and paperboys. Giving somebody some stock in the company does not necessarily exempt you from WISHA or the governing OSHA regulations. But please carry on as you were.
We didn't just give each other stock in a company. We formed a partnership, happens all the time. We were members of an LLC and thus owners of the license. It's completely legal and ethical. Just because you don't understand the law doesn't mean I'm breaking it. It also doesn't change the way L&I operates. I'm not alone in my views either, every contractor I know has stories that show that they are mostly about the money.
I guess it's all in the company you keep. I would say that view is contrary to that of most contractors I know.
Well if you haven't been around the block don't worry, you'll get there. We all had to start somewhere. And if you need some contacts for construction let me know. I've been at this a while...
Started in 1978. So I think I'm OK. Funny how you can accuse a whole department and segment of industry of "greasy hands" (and we both know what that means, yet act offended when the way your corporation is structured is questioned.
What's funny is that you think it's irresponsible for me to claim that L&I is less than ethical when I have first hand knowledge of such then turn around and accuse me of less than ethical practices with no knowledge whatsoever. How long have you been out of the construction industry?
This came before any of my posts Carry on
..And you claimed that statement was irresponsible, then turned around and accused me of unethical practices.
Dish it out but can't take it?
Hypocrite much?
This slanging match is going no-where fast,just shake hands and move on.
The news media sure loves their "construction screw-ups" stories, don't they? They showed the outrigger pad floating, on the old cranes that meant you were getting light. (The old ones you could run by the seat of your pants) But if you read the manuals for some of the new ones, it says you can't go by that anymore, as they are so flexible, they bend and flex as you pick with them. You're supposed to go by the LMI (computer), not the beams opening up or pads floating. The story doesn't say about any property damage, and there were no injuries, although it could have been tragic, no one was injured. I don't know as I live on the opposite side of the country, but I think the TV station has an ax to grind with this project. Just my .02, as they say.
What you see on the news is all unofficial and means nothing except that something squirrelly went on and L&I can't sweep it under the rug. Now I believe there is an investigation going on but in this state the blame never seems to go much above the operator and site foreman. That is the point I think that was being made. In somewhere around four months L&I will come out with a big write up with lots of fan fare in the media, a token fine and all the state people patting themselves on the back saying how many lives they are saving. Keep in mind this is a city and state project who are ultimately responsible for the safety of the crews. Do you think a state safety entity is going to point much of a finger at their brothers? The procedures old-iron-habit has stated are for the most part required here just like most anywhere else. As the story says, where were the safety people, you know the people employed by the government, who were supposed to be involved in this lift?
W>H>P>S>.Work health place and safety . If you go go back down the track, were forced on Employers,Companies and others by Insurance WCompanies. So in this day &age anyone who commences a job,must fill out a SWMS before commencing the job they are about to undertake.( Safe Work Method Statement),and any other JEA, Company work method policy for that particular job. It is all about covering your ass against liability and law suits. Company, Contractor says heres ours comply, or we dodge responibilty. then onto the contractor, same deal, then the sub contractor same deal down to the poor b*****d who really thought this was a bit dodgy lift,but for whatever reasons pulled the levers is left holding the bucket of ****e. WHAS is about moving responsibility from the top(mANAGENENT) TO THE GUYwho at the bottom of the Its My Fault List, Who is That? Look in the mirror. GUILTY.
Yes, you are correct. It was a serious issue because the crane got light. The way the crane tipped until it stopped when the load touched the ground. Sorry I didn't explain myself better. Apparently the operator overrode the LMI, or entered in the wrong information. I was just referring to how the reporters were talking about the outrigger pad coming up. I can't remember which manual it was now, but I know I have read in a manual (or maybe CCO publication?) that an outrigger pad can float if you're still within the chart, because the rigs are made so flexible now. So you have to go by the computer, because of that, in addition to the risk of structural failure. Now all kinds of sidewalk superintendents and armchair operators watching from an office or car window are going to be calling the news media about cranes they think are about to flip, when the operator may well be within the chart.