Heavy Equipment Forums Heavy Equipment Community

Seeking advice on an appropriate truck.

ericscher ยท 2014-09-20 12:47

DISCLAIMER: I am making several posts that all start out the same and LOOK like they might be cross-posts but are actually different questions. I did check with management to make sure I wasn't breaking any rules. BACKGROUND INFORMATION : I do gravel driveways, mainly repair/reclamation. Not asphalt, not concrete, just gravel. But I've had to turn away work for not having the capability to do certain things "in-house". Stuff like putting in culverts or stripping away significant amounts of grass and topsoil to install a brand So I decided that during the off-season I would buy some equipment. I am also going to pick up my CDL because I need a more versatile license, but that's only for background. Also, I already have a Kubota 3031 with FEL, but it's dedicated to a specific task and putting a backhoe on the 3-point hitch is not really a good option. The list of equipment I figure I need is as follows: An Excavator : Something in the 70hp range, give or take. Culvert installation and similar work would be typical A Skid Steer : Not sure what power range is smartest. A Trailer : Ideally should be able to carry a payload of about 18,000-20,000lbs. Must be Bumper-Pull, not 5th Wheel/Gooseneck because I would intend to pull it with the dump truck. A Dump Truck : Something in the 5-ton load range. I give that information so that anyone answering my question can see the context of the question FORUM RELEVANT QUESTION(S) : I need to buy a dump truck, for several reasons. I do NOT want to buy a full-on 10-ton plus truck since I get material delivered and don't move enough to make getting it myself worthwhile. What I do want it for is the ability to bring a small amount of specific material to a job site; say a few tons of rip-rap or #2's. Also, for hauling away stuff I can't get rid of on site. Sod/Topsoil/Plant material, etc. And of course, for pulling a heavy trailer. One of the items I am looking at buying is 15,000 pound tractor and ALL of the possibilities if I don't get THAT particular one are in the same general weight class. Using Ford as an example, I think am looking for something in the F-350 to F-750 range, but I'm not sure precisely what size. I would like it to have a dump bed with a load capacity of about 5 tons, but I wonder if that wouldn't force me into a much larger vehicle than I want. Maybe a 3-Ton load capacity is wiser. Also, if I have to tow a piece of heavy equipment I pretty much have to assume that I need a towing capacity in the 20-25K pound area. (That's 15-20k for the equipment and 5-7k for the trailer. Naturally, I don't HAVE to tow and carry stone at the same time, but it would be convenient if I could. Finally, I don't generally think buying new is the best value. It's not that I won't do it if I see the logic, but generally I find used equipment to be the better financial option. So the two questions are.... 1) What would be a good truck brand, model and size to look for? 2) Is it worthwhile to just buy a new or recent model dump bead and then shop for a truck to put it on? ( Chassis-Cab or existing flatbed, etc .)

Replies12
  1. #1mitch5042014-09-20 17:27

    As far as brand, get whatever is well supported in your area. Orphans, like GMC, and etc. can come back to bite you when they need parts. For what you do, I would get about an F750 size, 28-33k gvwr. You will need a class A to pull it with an F350, so why limit yourself. Also, no matter what the pickup enthusiasts say, 27k behind an F750 is much safer than 27k behind a pickup. On trailers, get a dual tandem, not a triaxle. Even a multi-max (4 short axles) beats the heck out of a triaxle.

  2. #2ericscher2014-09-20 18:05

    I was wondering about that... I noticed that equipment trailers in the 20-25k GVWR class that tandem-duals and tri-axles were different options on what otherwise seemed to be the same trailer. Even odder, at least to me, was that the tri-axle trailers seemed top be cheaper, when I would have thought that it would be the other way around. So what's the deal on this? Why is one good and one bad?

  3. #3Moonlite2014-09-20 20:57

    Like mitch said get a bigger truck. 20K on a bumper pull i wouldnt do it. Plus you wont be so far over your gcw.

  4. #4ericscher2014-09-20 21:16

    I am resigned to the fact that I'll need to get my Class A CDL for the winter. There is actually a loophole in the Federal and State law here... If I have a 26,000 truck and a 10,000 trailer I don't need a CDL at all, because both are under the weight break. A home-built trailer under 4,000 pounds doesn't need to be certified to a particular weight or tagged on the license plate, so it technically can't be overweight. So all I need to do is develop a magic metal that is so strong and light that I can build a 3,999lb trailer that can carry a 20,000lb load and I can tow it right through the "Big Damn Loophole" Joking aside though... When I was talking about bumper pull I was talking about a pintle hook set-up on at LEAST an F-350 size Dually. Reading the responses in this thread so far, it seems that I I would need to step up to as much as an F-750 Class truck. Maybe, depending on the setup I could go 550 or 650, but probably not a 450 or less. My basic problem is that I am a 1-man operation, at least for now. So I have to think not only about how I will do the work, but how I will get the equipment back and forth from the job site. AND whatever I bring that day will likely be it. See, I had been wondering if maybe an excavator was a better idea than a tractor-backhoe-FEL, but then I realized... If I have an excavator on site for the day then I do NOT have an FEL and I may well need one. Running back and forth myself is not practical because it eats too much time. Plus, either way I am dealing with a 15-20k pound piece of equipment. My only other option is to hire a low-boy whenever I want to move the big stuff. I also need a Skid-Steer, but I can put that on a smaller equipment trailer and pull it with my Silverado 2500HD. (12,000 towing capacity) To sum up, it seems there are no good answers, just different levels of suck. I simply want to choose the option with the least amount of suck. Hence my desire to tap into the group knowledge and experience here.

  5. #5Aliate2014-09-20 21:57

    Don't beat around the bush, just get an old f750 or similar, get your cdl, best thing I ever got. I don't know what rental companies are like around you but I use them a lot, have them deliver the equipment.

  6. #6Moonlite2014-09-20 22:40

    When i was at the rental company my service truck was an 06 f450. GVW on truck was 16K GCW was 26K. Truck netted 14,500. When i put a trailer on it that put my net weight around 16,500. So i could only haul 9500 lbs.legally. Which would be a bobcat or mini excavator.

  7. #7mitch5042014-09-20 22:58

    On a helium filled, zero pound empty trailer

  8. #8Moonlite2014-09-21 01:04

    Many of s130 bobcats and tb125s mini ex hauled. But the point is the same you cant haul much.

  9. #9Tags2014-09-21 10:23

    I work by myself as well and have been doing it that way for more than 20 years. I do grading, lawn installations, septic and drainage work, and some site work as well. I started out with an 18000lb rated cab over and pulled a 10 ton electric bake tandem axel trailer with a 17000 lb excavator or a small backhoe....it pulled it fine, IF the trailer brakes were in perfect condition it would stop well too but really was minimal at best. I moved on to an F650 with air brakes and a 20 ton trailer with air brakes as well, no worries about towing then. Now I have a 10 wheeler, same 20 ton trailer, a 33k excavator, a 12k excavator and a track skid steer. The mini and track skid steer get used most and can both be put on the trailer at the same time, saving a trip and allowing me to get a ton of work done. I do have an F550 flatbed dump with a small 16 k trailer that I use to get into smaller jobs too. It sounds like if you are getting your CDL you would do well with an F650-750 size truck with air brakes, a 20 ton trailer, (it may seem like overkill but it doesn't limit your towing capabilities as much) a mini excavator and a skid steer.

  10. #10ericscher2014-09-21 10:53

    I am coming to realize that unless I want to hire someone to move my equipment for me whenever I want to use it that I really need to do as you and the others suggest and get into the 650/750 class. Having said that, one of my concerns with an F650-750 size truck is that once I put a dump bed on it that it will be so close in size to the typical 10-ton single axle that I would STILL need to go and buy an F-350 class dump truck. Part of the issue here is that I am not closely familiar with truck sizes in the 550/650/750 class, so I'll need to go look at a bunch of them to try to develop that instinctive awareness of size.

  11. #11mitch5042014-09-21 11:47

    No doubt, I was just poking fun at your math. I have to keep it up if I want to stay HEF's most prolific smarta$$

  12. #12FSERVICE2014-09-21 22:32

    correct me IF im wrong.... don't Ohio have some "odd" weight/bridge laws on the books? I live in Indiana tho so im not sure on the trailer weight from a tri axle to a dual tandem!!! but check into it before buying a trailer/truck