Hi guys! I’m inthe business for my self not even a year, and I have this things with customers when they find out that the problem they had with machine is simple like blown O-ring or broken wire - I’m having problems getting payed! It feels like that they have this preconceived notion that it’s gonna be expensive component and big job, and indeed turns out like that - customers more willing to pay then if it’s a small job and something simple. Then all of the sudden I’m not worthy of my pay. I understand that I’m fresh and I will have to sift through all kinds of “ loose screws” until I will build my cache of good customers. But it came to the point that I don’t want to tell the customer what was wrong with his machine, because I don’t know what reaction will be! I hope it’s gonna get better! Have you had something similar in your experience?
That's BS! If it was a simple matter, they should have God damned fixed it their own ****ing self. Your time is precious, the most precious commodity that there is. You can get another anything, there is no getting another hour back. There are a set number in a day and only so many in our lives. You're trading your time for money. Selling yourself in the most literal sense. People lose sight of that and need to be reminded from time to time. Maybe have a polite discussion on how you would rather have been fishing or with your significant other and you had to take time away to find and repair this loose wire. (That was so simple, yet eluded the owner) Sorry to get cross, but time is something that should only be "given" to those you care about.
I totally agree with you! Especially when it takes a while to find that “simple problem”! But that’s my reality today! I guess it will get better with time!
The last one was a simple matter - the problem is you have to understand how logic element designed, their mechanic was in that thing ( I’ve seen his marks ) he probably pulled the spool out, didn’t see any damage and put it back without realizing that the spool riding inside the sleeve, and sleeve has two o-rings at each end. And you have to push the sleeve out to check those. They called me probably because they thought that motor was shot, and wanted confirmation of that! The local mechanic had kinda surprised and disappointed look on his face when he saw that I didn’t connect any gauges or flowmeters to machine, but went straight to relief. The reason why I did this, because I noticed fresh chewy-chewy marks from his crescent wrench on the relief valve cap! I had to check what he did to it, so I wont be chasing my tale!
We are the opposite...the mobile mechs that come out to us have a 3 hr min...they all know if they can fix in min..i give em 100 cash to the mech...everytime i call i always get a great mech....on time....and usually i am short 100 bucks....worth every penny...and if it is a nasty job....they still get tip....again i never have to call twice...
I would ask you if I can be your mech. But you too far north!!!
"IF I tell u how I fixed it.. I'd be out of a job".. laugh & walk away w/ cash in hand. I've had those customers too.. & when they say, "Seriously".. I say, "Seriously:.. & look'm straight in the eye.. Does it REALLY MATTER what IT was?? its running NOW & u owe me 300.00 & BTW> tell your "mechanic" to keep the monkey wrenches away from the machine if u want it to stay running.. But YES, sometimes TO MUCH information is a bad thing.. I get that too.. "I just make it LOOK easy".. {THAT ONE works too, in most cases.}
When I go out to a jobsite its usually because a pump has died or is on its way.. 1st thing I ask after a 10 minute diagnostic session is>> do u NEED this NOW or can it wait a couple of DAYS.. cuz the pump is on its way out.. If they say they need it now & then can shut it down for a few days.. I reach into my majic bag of tricks & pull out a "smashed out" return connector & fit it to the pump.. start it & it stays running.. You wanna talk about questions.??!! Everybody & their brother wants to know HOW I did that.. Sorry fellas, Ancient Chinese Secret.. I get paid for a service call.. the time on the jobsite & off I go w/ cash in hand.. until they call me in a few days to come snatch the pump off..{paid again}
It would help me if I knew what your experience level is, and background. I have been doing this for 29 years SELF-EMPLOYED. I have ran into MANY deadbeats in those years and have learned a lot. There are several rules I have with all this experience and they are as follows: 1. Have a minimum rate (mine is 4 hours). 2. New customers pay when your done...…..no exceptions. 3. Do not allow customers to devalue your experience...….experience pays as it should. 4. Make sure you are getting paid for travel time and mileage. 5. Whatever you allow for payment terms (30 days, 10th of the month, etc.....) STICK WITH IT. 6. Don't ignore red flags 7. Don't let customers talk you into cheap fixes. Fix it right because they WILL hold you liable regardless. 8. If you are NOT going to warranty a repair for whatever reason….make sure that is clearly STATED ON THEIR INVOICE! 9. Do NOT let a customer do your troubleshooting for you. 10. If you treat them right and do the repairs right, they will use you for life. Expect the same treatment in return. OK, that was more than several, and I have about 30 more but you should get the jest of this. I'd be happy to include more if it wont bore anyone to death.
Your smashed out return connector reminded me about few instances when money was wasted on injector pump exchange and nobody cared to check overflow valve, which most of the time stays on return line or in the box with parts at the machine!
Hey VTech.. Honest question.. Do u count the "travel time & mileage" as part of your minimum?? OR do u start THAT time when u get to the jobsite & travel time & mileage are separate..??
Thank you very much!!! Very good points!!! At this point I’m getting worried about those “you just fix this machine! I will pay you so much you would not believe!!! Those mostly ending up not paying at all! Had couple of those that couldn’t start the engine and didn’t pay me for rebuilding control valve because they didn’t confirm the fix for control valve. Or had one with bucket crusher on leased excavator, crusher sat for a while, excavator was returned, lease was over, I found the problem ( or at least one of them ) but now I have to wait for him to find the machine to test my work. I always tell them “make sure the starts and stops” before I go out to machine - but it seldom happens that way! I show up and battery not even unit and out of charge! And on attachments - this is my first suggestion as self employed: if it’s not on the machine and machine is in operating condition - don’t even waste your time! Turn around and go back! Been there! Know better now!
I've walked off of at least 2 jobsites because of #7 & #9.. even after telling the customer to "walk away" please.. I started packing my tools & he said, Where ya going?? I said, YOU know so much about this, you don't need me.. & off I drove.. Lol
My experience level is “undetermined “! I need to print this, laminate it and have it on my clipboard!
I always tell folks that want to watch ,this is not a spectator sport, if they wanna watch somebody pull wrenches go to a nascar event
Sorry for mess up! Experience undetermined because even I can’t figure that out! I didn’t start this business normally! I’ve been doing side jobs for dacedes while having “day job”. This is a first year full time. I don’t have formal education in hydraulics, and never worked in this field as an employee! I have natural ability in diagnosing the problems, started with cars, ended up being “jack of all trades, but master of few”!
And like V Tech mention document everything. If you see a safety item that is in disrepair noted on the work order. I have found that you can save yourself more hassle headache and aggravation by simply having a pen with enough ink in it to cover your butt. Don't be afraid to pull out your phone and snap pictures as well to backup your statement. The customers responses typically oh yeah we'll get to that and it never happens when someone gets hurt they say it will this guy never told me about it And they try to put you in the liability bag.
There is nothing wrong with Hard Knocks U. I went there great place graduated with high honors
Either of those are not included in the minimum. I will skip the travel time for good respectable customers, but the mileage charge is always a constant. You HAVE to set standards and stick with them...…...You wouldn't believe how many deadbeats it weeds out. Most of my core customers I have worked for have had a working relationship with me for most of my years. They trust me and I have always treated them well, as they have me. I NEVER have trouble with them but it took many years to establish that trust. The new customers calling is the ones that will stick you and some have gotten really good at it. Its going to happen to all of us, it STILL happens sometimes to me even now...……..but I have cut that down by 90% from what it was a few years ago. I have numerous examples of getting screwed by deadbeats...…….I could fill 5 pages with them from past experience.
Great advise! I do this also, but was unmentioned.
Funwithfuel, I have little unrelated question for you, I’ve seen you on crasher forum: working on Hartle 750, found the problem, but owner said it have to be timed, and it involve adjusting flow. And Martin Hartl not returning my calls. Do you have any idea about timing that thing?
There is nothing wrong with that at all, it STILL has value. Make sure your rate is a good value to the customer, but it HAS to be profitable to survivable in the business. I personally always look a machine over before I leave the job. Regardless of why I was called out, I try to notice things that may need attention (loose bolts, leaks etc.....) if its just tightening a hose connection, or a few bolts, ……….I go ahead and take care of it and I let the customer know I did. If it is a safety issue, I will bring it up immediately...……..and 9 out of 10 times it becomes another repair job for ME. I have gone as far as to take cell phone pics and send them to the boss. LOL Be diligent, professional, clean with your work...……….I promise they will runover themselves giving you work, and if you apply some of those rules, you wont worry about getting what is owed you.
Sorry no I have no personal experience with it. What if you could send me a picture or perhaps a model and serial I could try and do a little work on my end. I mostly see mccloskey KPI sandvik and astec. I know there are many other vendors out there I just don't have personal experience with them
Thanks, it’s my first time working on those, hydraulicly it is not that complicated at all, but I have no idea what timing is about. I do see flow controller.
Thanks for advice! I do that, and maybe even little too much! I sent them pictures left and right! As far as I see now I’m in a “sifting” time of my business! I hope it will get better when I will have critical mass of good customers. As any starting business I’m inexpensive at this point, and that’s attracts deadbeats.
No problem! If you need further advise, hit me up. I really like watching guys like you SUCCEED in this business.
Thanks! I will!
Vetech63, has hit on a lot of good ones. There’s so many deadbeats out there it’s scary. I have some good customers. Yet always have the deadbeats calling too. I have learned to not let any one customer become more than 50% of my business, no matter how much they beg.
Before anybody laminates that list.. ADD>> Credit will be given to anyone 85 years or older, accompanied by BOTH parents..
Oh !!! For those all labor is free!!! You didn’t answer my question about finger, mine do not hurt anymore, but I wish it was pain instead of this nasty indescribable feeling of severed nerves! Still having problems using plyers and most embarrassing is shaking hands when I meet people. I’m afraid they think I’m a wuss because I can’t really product a firm handshake.
Look at it this way, people should be more than prepared to pay you for what you know. Otherwise, as many other posters have pointed out, they would have fixed their broken-down machinery themselves. There's a lot to be said regarding the "expert" who, when asked to detail a $1,000 invoice he presented to a customer, responded as follows ........ 1. One cross - $1. 2. Knowing where to put the cross $999. Your customers need to bear Item 2 in mind. That kind of knowledge never came cheap in the past, and it never will in the future.
Oh yeah! Even at the price of mad wife, because I spent too much time reading! She’s not so mad now though! And BTW - we have six biological kids together, so if anyone wants to make smart ass comments, please don’t!
I can't really figure this one out. I don't mind if people want to watch and I will talk them through it. They will see that I know what I am doing and that it is beyond them usually. There are also crooks in the industry so being open and free shows that we are honest. Also they are the one paying and it is their machine so they kind of have a right.
Just got a text confirmation for appointment tomorrow - finally getting filter cart! $250, although it only has one filter, but I already have two more filter housings on my closed loop hose flushing rig, it’s spin on design. And I like to look at elements after I clean those hoses. So those spin-on ones will go on the cart.
I like ones that genuinely want to learn, but then there’s kreeps who you have no idea what they thinking!
My dad before he retired owned HVAC company in Seattle area. I remember he often had problems with Asian customers being to “anal”. In one case one of them started making ruckus about all the empty holes you have where the controls and starting components located on outside unit. I guess he thought that dad was cheating on him and not installing stuff. So dad got pissed took whole bunch of sheet metal screws and filled every single hole!
I'm talking about the guys that are right up your backside you can't take a step backwards without stepping on their toes they wanna be all up in your business I don't mind em watching and like you have mentioned I don't mind teaching a guy genuinely wants to learn I'm Just not intrested in working for somebody who wants to get in the way and tell me how to do the job they couldn't get accomplished in the 1st place
They are super paranoid! But then it’s counterintuitive - why do you want to hire a guy if you don’t know if you can trust him!
Most of my customers have me figured out. They tell me where the machine is , what the complaint is then they wait for my call on whether its done today or another day when I get parts. Pet peeve of mine is new people calling me telling me it wont take long and can I be there tomorrow. Sorry to burst your bubble but im not sitting on the couch waiting for a job.
Don't know if any of you guys know of AvE, he has his own Youtube channel. This guy is brilliant. A few years ago he did a vid on his 3 simple rules of troubleshooting. I printed them off and had them pinned up in the office, in the shop, in the warehouse, because it makes so much sense. So laminate this one and keep it with the other one and when someone questions your motives, just show it to them Here they are 1. Do the easiest thing first 2. Don't rely on the people that tried and failed prior 3. 90% of problems are between the driver's seat and the steering wheel Bonus: If it can go wrong, it WILL go wrong. (Murphy's Law) Link to his vid I was already pretty much using this philosophy during my working career, but good to have it written down. As far as customer watching. I always told them that having someone watching over my shoulder made me slow down, or I would put the tools down and ask them if they wanted to have a conversation, I was still on the clock on the tools or not. I found most people would go off after a bit. As for sharing what you did, I have never had and issue. Sure they might grumble but I got it running when it was broken before. Had one fellow call me up. I wasn't working for myself, but he was in a bit of a bind. I know a bit about logging machines, and he had a model that there are not very many of. The machine was down. They had a company come out and try but not in their field of expertise. I'm not knocking the kid that tried but he just didn't know the system. So I got out there on my day off. Thought to myself, what the heck is going on, it was doing some really funky stuff. After about 4 hours, I found THE WIRE that was in the wrong place. Flashed up the machine, hit the button and everything worked as it should. The owner was like, you got it, YOU GOT IT!!! By the time the smoke cleared, I was about 8 hours into it. My wife and I got taken out for lunch the next day and there was an envelope of cash in my hand when we parted. He told us at lunch that the machine had been down for 4 days while they tried to figure out what was wrong. How much money had he lost in downtime? So if you have the skill to get it running when the others can't, don't be afraid to charge. Set a minimum call out rate, I would go with 4 hours. Make sure that the customer knows that even if you find the loose wire in the first 10 minutes, they will still have to pay the call out. Charge for mileage, it costs a lot of money to buy that truck, outfit it and keep it running. I find most people are okay with it as long as they see results.
Always wanted to find out where AvE is from! By his driving videos it looks like somewhere Meritt/Hope area.
Kinda what I was thinking but I'm leaning more to Kamloops. Love that guy, cuts through the crap pretty quick. And lots of fun TIME!!!!
Definitely not Hope, because he have to cross the coquihalla! I had lots of laughter watching him! My wife doesn’t like him because he cusses a lot!
Yeah, there is that. My wife looks at me and I put my headphones on so she can't hear it.
Yeah, I can't handle the guy. There are plenty on Youtube who behave themselves like civilized men. My dad taught me that anger and profanity has no place in tractor work or repair. Just makes everything worse. It is just a machine made of parts, it can't hear or feel you.
I’m actually in bed all day!!! Picked up some nasty flue from my kids, who got it in school! That’s why I’m “talking” too much today!
Take a few days to kick the bug off. I remember those days, the kids would bring something home and leave it with mom or dad. Don't miss that stuff at all. The younger guys at work (when I still did that) used to bring it into the shop. The one guy called his young son a petri dish, kid was always bringing something home LOL Grandson is too far away to visit on a regular basis, don't have to go to work anymore, I have had a good winter sickness wise. Laptop and bed, good combo for getting better.
I actually worked in bed this morning! Tried to correspond with OEM which is in Austria by three different avenues, about new to me piece of equipment, then being reading the operators manual for the same thing which got me nowhere on the things I needed to know!
I got to meet the seller tomorrow morning 7:00 about filter cart, about 35 miles away.
Mind u it might be different in canada...i have accounts at new holland and kubota...never had a problem with either...all six of their mobile guys are good. Deadbeats dont survive long around here....u do it once and everyone knows in no time. Besides it is better to have a good name around here...your always working for the cousin, sister,brother or someone that knows someone....90% of my excavation business is word of mouth and repeat customers...so u screw one link in the chain....it all falls apart...but on the other hand i rarely get screwed for the same reason
My best friend was a plumber, He has since passed on, RIP my friend. He was a rough around the edges fix it all kind of guy, I did his maintenance and major work since day1, said it best," well I am hiring you from the neck up" . I have used this line on customers when doing the easy fixes as I hand them the bill. Be safe all.
Personally what I do is go with a defined price and I say this will cost X because I have met on several occasions people who want changes, to make some displacement and in the price and I include it.
After growing up around my dad who was a brown boot in the military and told it like it was, it rubbed off on me. I'm known for saying things totally off color to get a reaction. Reason for it-I want to see which side of the coin there on. When the shop performed out side work I dealt with customers straight up and to the point. If they didn't like it there was always the door. I tell people quite frequently {Did you see a steeple on top of the shop}. Everybody has their own way. I don't trust a guy who wouln't say **** if he had a mouth full.
I had a friend that had a problem with his home heater . He called a Plummer ,the guy came out hit it with a hammer ,heater started . Plummer gave him a bill for $100.00. My friend said “all you did is hit it with a hammer” . Requested a itemized bill,Plummer said ok New bill (1). Hit heater with hammer.................&1.00 (2) knowing where to hit heater .........$99.00 Total...............$100.00 Moral of the story is you not only pay for service you also for knowledge
about a week ago i was called out for a "no start/no power to dash" on a skid steer. i found the machine in the customers yard, he'd already started to "fix" it himself i called him and asked "what happened" didnt get much info over the phone. i went to work checking power/ground from the battery all the way to the dash panels, cust shows up for 5 minutes and leaves again. 2 1/2 hours later, i traced down 2 broken wires at a connector, and repaired them. started the machine and moved it around, connected my laptop to retrieve any stored fault codes. cust shows up and asks what i found, i explained what i'd found, he then asks "how much is this gonna cost?" i give him a rough estimate, 1hr travel, 2 1/2hr labor, $49 service call fee.... $400 +/- you would have thought i killed his dog, and banged his wife, $400+ for 2 broken wires? well sir, you could have repaired them yourself, if you knew what 2 wires were broken.... i put my tools away, did my paperwork and left for my next call...
Sound like anybody u know Mitch..???!!!! I love the "hammer" story..
I worked in a small company town, was support for a 1000 Megawatt power house. I was privileged to be able to work on one of the take downs of a 125 MW generator, since I was a mechanic keeping the equipment running that kept the plant running it was not normally in my job description. So a real treat for me. The plant was built in the 50's so they were doing some modernization to the generators when they were rebuilding them. One of the rotors got damaged on the trip to the plant when it was being built, shaft was bent slightly. Forgot to mention that it was a hydro electric station. 125 MW generators coupled to 150,000 HP turbines. The rotors were 400 tons and I think that the turbine with coupling and shaft was another 150 tons. So approx 550 tons spinning. Generator speed during generation was 327 RPM. So what would happen is when the generator was taken off line the rotor goes from magnetic center to mechanical center. Not that the bend was much, only several thousands really, but when the generator went into overspeed as the load came off and the exciter field collapsed and the whole 550 tons of rotating mass tried to find its center again, the whole power house would vibrate. They brought a specialist up to straighten the shaft. Old fellow from Europe somewhere. He showed up with a small tool box, had a few measuring devices and a large rosebud torch. He would go to work, measure then apply heat to one spot. That would be it for the day. The next day or the day after depending, he would measure, heat and leave again. I can't remember if he cooled the shaft or not, but all he did was measure, heat and wait. Didn't take him long and he was done. Shaft was back into line with in mere thousands 3-4? End of vibration. No idea what that man would charge for a project like that but the skill and knowledge that he had would be priceless. The whole crew that showed up for a rebuild were like that, all experts in their fields, came from all over the world.
Knowledge is King! It is amazing how many customers (or shop managers) think electrical work is a quick easy fix. While the repair is usually quick and easy, it's the troubleshooting of electrical gremlins that takes the most time (compared to mechanical diagnostics). I had a Bomag roller that had an intermittent engine miss with it's Honda engine that the customer first tried fixing himself. Did all the usual stuff simple stuff first. In the end after spending a full day+ on it I finally found this cracked solder joint inside a seat contact timer relay that was causing the misfire. Customer sh&% a brick when he got that bill.
That’s another or should I say “arising” problem! It comes to the point that I even almost afraid to accept electrical jobs ( but now days it’s almost impossible to fix equipment without doing electrical work) because customers don’t realize how much billable hours it might take to chase down that gremlin! It’s funny what it comes down to: Fix it too quick - customers not happy, Took too long - not so thrilled either !!! The one good thing that came out of this is realization what makes a good customer! A good customers is the ones who was not happy with you initially, but then they went out and wasted time and money elsewhere with no good results. And now they became “educated” customers who understand that it “will take as long is it will take” to get it fixed. Don’t remember who of business coaches talked of importance of educating your customers to run a successful business!
Another thing about “being too slow” because you actually take time to do the job right! It’s not readily obvious to customers. Not everyone of them is understanding correlation between replacing or rebuilding hose or center pivot fast and cheap - and travel motor crapping out very next day! Most of them think that that motor just had considerable amount of hours or “ it just happens, sometimes”! It’s not really obvious for them that in order for that motor not to go out next day, the area where the system will be opened up have to be thoroughly cleaned and pressure washed, so the grit and sand will not contaminate the system! And doing job properly takes more time!!!