Hi, new poster here. Been trying to get some equipment for a couple years for my property, but the prices haven't taken a break. Came across a guy selling what looks like a mid-late 50s cat D4 that "ran when parked" out in the woods overgrown with blackberries and poison oak of course. Looks pretty complete, was going to try to get it started, but the dipstick tells me there is a bunch of diesel in the crank case. Fuel tank is bone dry so clearly some kind of issues going on. Would probably want to drop the pan before trying to get it started to see what I'm dealing with here. Transmission fluid looks good, hydraulics look ok. Has some kind of forestry package with a winch and ROPS. Electric start (pony motor would be a no-go for me) I'm not expert on big machines, done a lot of work on cars and tractors, but that's about it for me. Should I go for it? He was selling it for quite a bit but I talked him down to $1500, which is about 1.5X scrap prices. I figure since it's so complete though I could sell off parts if its a disaster. Not looking to do a restoration, just want something that runs ok where I can put some paths into my property and do small time jobs around here. Was hoping someone here might know more about how accessible parts are. I see some kits online, but haven't checked for specific part numbers.
"Ran when parked" is an optimistic way for a seller to describe a non functional piece of junk.
Blackberry rescue tractor = RUN FORREST RUN Bob
There is a reason I put it in quotes. Dude laid that line on me non ironically. I would assume the engine needs an overhaul. Guess what I'm trying to figure out is how much that would cost and if I can get parts. If it costs $2k, it's worth it in my book, I'll have a functional dozer for $3500. The engine (D315) was around for a long time.
I will need a Dozer some day to clean up a property to sell . I have been looking and found several deals like you have. If i was you i would buy it if i could get it home cheaply and go from there. I just passed up a D7 that was well worn for 3500.00 my boss had it so it wasnt a shot in the dark. If it would have been smaller i would have bought it but after i get this job done what would i do with it. I was afraid i would get to liking it and not have any need or place to keep it.
Crankcase full of diesel is usually caused by failed fuel gallery 0-ring seal at the filter tower to injection pump connection. Not a big deal to fix but does require removal of the injection pump. Lot's of old D4's out there still earning their keep.
Welcome to HEF, Matt ! If you don't mind spending the time to repair it you can't go wrong for that price. That winch on it is defiantly worth getting.
What does the tracks look like
The winch alone could possibly the cost of the tractor if you were to part it out. One of the reasons for the longevity of these machines is the pony motor IMVHO. Changing it to direct electric start may devalue it if you resell it. Callisthenics first up in the morning is good for you as well
Thanks for the advice. I have a few videos I took of it, and I managed to get some screenshots so you can see what I'm working with. http://imgur.com/gallery/eOEk6Zx I'm going back tomorrow or Monday with a string trimmer with a saw blade on the end to clear a wide berth around the machine so I can get a better look at her. Was going to put her in neutral and give a tug with my winch to see if she rolls ok, then I'll arrange transport I guess.
It don't look like it has been setting forever might be some hope for it
As long as it's only fuel in the oil and not water for two grand it would be a cool project ...
I ran a metal rod attached to a siphon pump all the way down to the bottom of the drain pan, and no water came out. I think the rear main is leaking though, so I'll be pulling the engine either way.
There is no rear main seal. Depends on a reverse thread arrangement to draw oil back into the sump. Leakage increases as the bearing wears.
Probably leaking because crank case is full of diesel
From what I see, Personally I would go for broke and make the deal. If it is as you are describing, I think you could make this work. Old Magnet is a wealth of knowledge with these and I'm sure he will help as he did me with my D6B. First advice I would give is buy a shop manual and parts manual for the specific machine and go from there. Oh and Nige, is a parts number cross over genius for old machines.
Go for it man!
nice find, if you dont want it im intrested
Thanks for the advice everyone. I gave it another going over the other day, and its not as rough as it first appeared. It's all there except for some engine cowling, even has a two-way blade, although the controls for it look a little janky. The only thing that is rough is the radiator. Appears to have never even been painted...I could only see the original paint. I'm working now on getting it rolling so I can work out a recovery plan. I'll post some more pictures when I get it home! My kid is gonna crap his pants when he sees it, he loves big machines.
A diamond in the rough is what you have. Enjoy.
Looks to have tilt cylinder blade plus original Medford cage.
Video please …lol
Make a recovery video
I just got this ole girl ready for work…
A few seals and some labor could be a cheap dozer. Pony motors kept Here is one put together out of a few old cats I keep around for a cleanup cat. There are times a small dozer is priceless.
Well it took some doing but I was able to get her rolling. I about maxed out my 6 ton winch and it didn't budget, but as soon as I put a trail jack under a grouser it popped free. I have someone coming to help me load it up on Wednesday... it's going to be cramped getting the trailer lined up. Hopefully the track brakes work ok. skip to 16:10 in here to see it move:
Well done Matt. The blade set-up looks like a Caterpillar build apart from the tilt. Those lift rams should have shims behind the end plate on the barrel so when they weep you remove a shim and rebolt it. The hose end on the lift cylinders are reusable. On that model there's no live drive to the winch so the master clutch must be engaged to operate it and the levers on the far R/H side are a break lever and a lever to engage the winch which are adjusted through the inspection plate you removed.
I love watching these old machines recovered rather than scrapped.
Caterpillar D2 #5J1113 Diesel Engine Assembly Ep.32: Governor Overhaul & Injection Pump Installation - YouTube Interesting information. It seems like this covers what Oldmagnet described that could be your D4 Issue.
The video is a different governor, fuel injection pump and engine than what's is a 7U D4 but that bit about the o-ring seal between fuel tower and pump and the end of the fuel gallery still applies.
Yes, When he got to that part was when I thought about this.
Well, I'm glad I hired a pro to move this thing, otherwise I'd still be out in the woods trying to get the trailer lined up. Anyways, it's mine now officially. Here she sits after a nice power washing. I guess first order of business will be to change fluids, clean out the radiator, fix the fuel injection leak, and see if she will fire up.
Looks great!
I'm curious to know where the hydraulic source is for the blade tilt???
The lift and tilt lines all run to the same valve box that has this lever on it, presumably which switches functions. A few taps with the mallet got it moving freely. Don't see a manufacturer stamp on it, but there is a number on it.
OK, awkward but it will work, kind of thinking the source may have been another pump but I didn't see an additional control valve.
Now I’m curious, might be a nice addition for the D6.
First efforts should be to see if engine will roll over by hand, that being said if locked up all other fluids are moot until that is freed up.
crack the drain plugs enough to let out several drops until you know it's the right kind of fluid, that is no water. Then start it up with the old fluids, maybe change the filters if they're real old and cheap. No point in draining the clean oil and leaving all the gunk in the bottom of the pans where it's settled now.
Reading back there is a sump full of diesel that needs to be taken care of first.
Don't forget the aircleaner, they often got overlooked.
I got the crankcase drained today... no surprises, just black oily diesel as I was expecting. Drain plug magnet was free of metal shavings, although it's not a very strong magnet so who knows. Does anyone know of a way to turn the motor by hand, before I invest $250 on a battery so I can bump it and make sure it's not frozen? Normally I would just wrench on the crank bolt, but the hydraulic pump is up there. This is the first big machine I've ever wrenched on! Living my dream out here.
Not that big of an engine. It should turn over by turning the fan and belt by hand if you can get a good grip. A little at time obviously as you can't turn it against compression. And if you can turn it over against compression, don't start it up and chop off your hands.
put a car battery in it , it let you know if it is ok
Use the decompression lever and you should be able to turn it over by hand.
Take the main clutch access cover off and try prying in there with the trans in neutral. Towing in a high gear is also an option.
Great idea on the flywheel. I think before I do that, I'll take the injectors out and pour penetrating oil in all the cylinders.
I pulled the injectors and cleaned them up and replaced the o rings on them. One of them was pretty clogged up. After I poured a bunch of penetrating oil into the cylinders, I bumped the starter a few times with a car battery. Don't think it had enough juice to spin the motor (500cca vs 1000cca needed), but it moved the motor about a degree each time I bumped it. I'll get a battery on Tuesday I guess. Next up I pulled the clutch inspection cover, and boy oh boy, count all the things wrong in here. Just to my untrained eye I see a mystery spring, a case full of oil (and probably water since there wasn't a gasket on the cover and I just pressure washed it earlier), a lubrication bowl clogged with sludge, and a loose bolt. Don't see the spring anywhere in my parts manual. The one shown here is present in the picture. Maybe a field repair to prevent chattering? Guess I'll find out! There is fortunately a drain plug at the bottom to empty this case out, but it's the same hex bit 1-1/4 as the other plugs which I don't have, so I ordered one of those. Guess I'm at a stopping point for now.
This will be 24v start, 12v will barely drag it. Check the Generator, should be marked 12v or 24v The cup is a funnel to essentially oil the clutch linkage parts thru a grease nipple. Spring is a return spring for the linkage, original one still in place, the hanger is a add on.
The generator is marked as 12V, and the battery was a group 4DA which is a 12V I believe. That cup is completely clogged with grease. It's almost like someone shot grease through the lid up top instead of oil. Where does the extra spring go? Same spot as the other one?
Extra spring I would discard, not for the application based on the wire up job of it. Will need amps to turn the old 4 banger. Would still put a bar to the clutch and see how stiff it turns.
As I wrote earlier there should be the original decompression lever fitted. Use that to decompression the engine,it will make it far easier to turn the engine over without it firing up which is exactly what needs to be done. The last thing you need is a generator problem caused by a piston coming out of the block.
decompression lever is open, injectors aren't even in right now
cool
Check the starter solenoid for 12v or 24v. To early to have glow plugs so starter could be 12v. Still need to bar engine over, preferably a couple revolutions to make sure there is no foreign stuff in the cylinders. Clutch release bearing takes oil not grease.
The car battery should have no trouble turning the engine over, not saying it will start it, just turn it over if the engine is loose and the starting system is functional. Maybe pull the starter or cover and see if the brushes are loose? I wouldn't be surprised if the engine would turn over one degree just from the solenoid slamming. Check cranking voltage first, it's easier than removing starter or examining the brushes and cables.
I think i have that goofy post in the wrong thread
I suspect this one will probably be like my D6 having a 12volt system since pony motor isn’t there. 24 volts might be much for a 4 cylinder.
Where your starter is mounted to the bell housing do you have a aluminum adapter plate between the bell housing and the starter?
Those eccentric adapters were used on later units that had the "buzz bomb" pony motors or factory direct start. The flywheel access hole was larger than the drive end housings of the starters.
Yes sir, and I learned a hard lesson with it. There was no gasket between either when I started working on mine, which explained why water from pressure washing got into clutch housing. Old Magnet, you truly amaze me with your knowledge sir!
Following Old Magnet's advice, I removed the starter and cranked on the flywheel a bit with a bar and got it moving a tiny bit. Then I turned it back the other way, and found that I could turn the engine by hand, but only by about 30 or so degrees each way before something stops it. Injectors are still out and I poured about a cup of oil into each cylinder just to keep things smooth. I am suspecting a stuck valve...when I say "suspecting" I really mean "hoping". I guess there could also be something like a mouse nest in a cylinder. I will pull the valve cover off tonight and see if I can get it to budge. If they are in good shape and not stuck, I guess I will be pulling the inspection covers off the side to see if I can see what's going on. Or maybe I should pull the head? I'm getting a good workout wrenching on this thing. Every time I need a tool I have to climb off the track, walk 50 feet to my shop, walk back and climb back onto the track.
More than likely it is rust on the liners that's stopping the rotation but could be a number of things. Stuck valve is easy to check but you will probably need to pull the head if you can't get passed the stoppage.
Welcome to Yellow Iron Disease!!
Oh boy, are we getting into it now. I just keep repeating to myself: "it ran when parked, it ran when parked!". I pulled the valve cover and checked out the valves. The #4 back valve is definitely not returning when I push down on it, but the other seem fine. Some surface rust sure, but can't really not expect that. This is after i hosed it down with penetrating oil, so it doesn't look too bad. The real problem is when I turn the crank. I see no movement whatsoever on the valve train. Check out the two pictures showing the amount of crank travel (around 30 degrees). Nothing is moving on the valves. Yikes! I guess I'll be pulling out the radiator next so I can get the camshaft out. I'm assuming this is an interference engine, so the root of my problem is either the cam gear is jacked up, the camshaft has sheared off, or some other form of torture I can't even come up with. Stay tuned!
And the money pit opens wider. Bob
I would say the answer will be revealed once you get the timing cover off . Stay positive even though it doesn’t sound good, it could be something simple.
I always tell people that if it truly “ran when parked” it wouldn’t have been “parked”
My previous dozer was running fine before the crankshaft broke,,,,,,,,,,,,
The Titanic also ran when it was parked.
I wouldn't panic quite yet. I'm not the expert, but that amount of movement not showing valve movement doesn't surprise me that much. First, have you tried tapping that stuck valve down a tiny bit at time? Not to compress the spring the whole way, but just enough to get it moving and maybe it will pop back part way, then you can work it loose. Then keep working the engine back and forth until you go all the way around. A breaker bar on the front of the crankshaft is the only way to go about that. You're not going to ruin anything that isn't ruined already, if you pull the pistons and clean it all up, you're going to get new parts anyway most likely.
Very rare to have valve train failure on these old beasts. As stated I don't think your getting enough flywheel rotation to really tell. At this point I'd say it's either head off or remove the #44 hydraulic control to get access to the crank. Other option is to rig up a hand crank affair in place of the starter although that will require a RH helical drive gear.
Yeah I am hoping you are right. After some more thought this morning, I think the best plan of attack is going to be to remove the rockers and let the valves all fully close. Then if I can freely turn the engine, I know what to do next (remove timing cover). If not, then remove the head.
I watched your video, and think Old Magnet is hitting on something there. I'm not sure the crank is being turned enough to determine if the cam is moving much. But you are on the right track though.
Likely piston is hitting valve that is stuck open. Free valve, free engine. Don't waste time on timing gear.
Update?
on any old engines if i suspect mouse or water intrusion, i pull the exhaust manifold to verify. stuck valves can be tricky. lots of penetrating fluid and carefully tap it down about 1/8" then carefully, with two pry bars opposite each other under the retainer, attempt to pry it up. the exhaust valve stem on most old engines is usually visible through the exhaust port after the manifold is removed
Sorry, had 2 solid weeks of in-laws visiting, and the weather has been rough. I pulled the valve lifters off the side and a few lifters were stuck and the valve train is covered in surface rust. Also looks like the rods and non-machined surfaces of crank are covered in surface rust. Judging by the rust pattern on top of the head, its clear that water was getting into the engine through the valve cover studs (the seals were toasted). Surface rust also might be due to long term exposure to sulfuric acid from diesel? Not sure. Once I took the lifters out of the block, the engine rotates about 180 degrees now. So I am suspecting rust buildup in the cylinders is the final (of several) culprit. I'll confirm that when I pull the head. I have all the bolts off the head but it's pretty stuck so I need to get a big prybar on it. Trying to decide now if I want to clean up the rust as best as I can with the engine still in it, or should just bite the bullet and pull the engine, disassemble and clean up. I am going to have to pull the radiator to get the cam out to clean it up, so it might be just best to pull the entire engine. It would also nice to be work on the engine in a clean shop instead of next to a blackberry bush outside. I guess I will decide when I get the head off. When I get to this point in a project, I like to take a few days off to think about it before I do anything drastic. There is definitely going to be pitting on the surfaces of the lifters/cam/etc due to the rust build up. Not sure I want to replace all that stuff though, Hoping I can just clean it up as best I can and smooth it back out and go from there. Some of these pictures are pretty bad, might be considered NSFL. Don' look at them if you have just eaten. Just about every non-machined surface is covered.
This is about par with blackberry rescue tractors . Bob
My first ever project when I was 14 years old, I talked my dad into letting me buy a clapped out 1947 Willys Jeep. No tools, everything rusted, a complete nightmare. This is easy compared to that piece of junk, and I ended up getting that thing running.
YIKES! I mean...... DOUBLE YIKES!!!!
Matt, I'm not convinced you will have to pull the engine. It's obvious water has gotten into the crankcase, however its possible to do a in-frame overhaul. I think the most concerning to me was the heavy rust at the bottom of the push rods, I have seen worse. As long as there is movement, there is hope.
Man. I wish I had the faith that some of you do.
Pull it and get on with teardown All that surface rust comes loose is as good as gravel for destroying your fresh internals if inframe it .
the only thing i would try before engine removal would be to pull all the inspection plates and use a solvent suction/spray gun and spray solvent inside with the drain plug out to see if it will remove any of the rusty loose stuff. but, i would never be that lucky. with that much rust inside, maybe there was an internal coolant/water leak before it was parked. i am suspecting it may have been run with straight water in the cooling system because of an internal leak. but, then again, i am a pessimist and expecting the worst but hoping for the best
One reason I said in frame was because I've seen in past especially with a machine with cover or hood off, many old gaskets will break down and allow the elements to intrude. I personally had a issue with pressure washing my D6 and come to find out, a lot of my gaskets were allowing the water to get inside. I didn't have the rust but I also caught it before it got to that point. ALWAYS check fluids....LOL! But I totally agree with 56wrench on this one. I think he said what I was trying to say.
if you are going to do it, pull the engine out and do it right , you may have more issues with crank
Thanks for the kind words all. You guys are right of course, the engine needs to come out. I already knew this, just had to give myself time to come to that conclusion. I cleaned a few lifers and push rods up last night, and the rust is very consistent with typical rust caused by humidity on bare metal here in the PNW. It looks bad and pits on rough surfaces, but cleans up pretty good on smoothed machine surfaces. I haven't seen anything that isn't salvageable yet. Have had no stuck or corroded fasteners anywhere on this machine, which is a very nice change of pace from my usual projects. Hopefully it's not too much work to get the engine out. I know I'll need to drop the skid plate and pull out the roll bar. I'm guessing I'll also have to remove the blade so I can get the radiator and hydraulic pump off. The upside is once it's all off, it'll be hopefully light enough to roll it the tractor to a nicer work spot.
Finally have some more time to work on this thing. Got the roll bar pulled off this evening, and the results of it hitting the ground as it rolled off were somewhat surprising. I have a video of it happening, I'll put it up later, but here is the aftermath. I do believe my old friend Bubba has worked on this dozer at some point, when he welded this roll bar back together. I'm always glad when he works on the safety portion of my vehicles. It also appears he put in this nice oil cooler bypass, for performance reasons I'm sure. Can't wait to start tearing into this engine!
Dang, you know Bubba too!? That son of of gun gets around all over the country!!!
Not a ROPS, only a brush cage. Rollover Protection has to have engineering documentation these would never make the cut.
Spent close to ten years working on and around my old Fat Allis, ended as spent nearly a full winter going thru all I knew to be bad and sold it.
Just remember something. Although the ultimate goal is a working dozer, you're also getting huge value out of the learning, troubleshooting, and fixing process. Those activities create new neural pathways in the brain, and keep your mental health stable. It also might keep you from developing Alzheimers later in life.
It's pretty common to bypass the oil cooler which was eliminated on later models anyway. There are neater ways of accomplishing the bypass.
I've been doing this for 50 years Ace and I do know what a money pit looks like. I would bet most homeowners who take on these projects have early stage Alzheimer's already. Bob
Different people different opinions. No need to be condescending. Some live for bringing old machines back to life.
Well it was on ordeal, but I managed to get into my shop. Much more civilized to work on it here, close to all the tools. I got the head off, and it actually doesn't look bad. I am guessing the issue with it not fully turning is under the pistons somewhere. There really isn't any rust above the pistons, it's very minimal. The water jackets could use some cleaning though If you have some time to waste, here is how I got it into my shop. You are 100% right, I can't argue with that. At the end of the day after my initial purchase plus parts, I'll probably be right in the monetary range of buying a functional crawler somewhere else. I'm having a good time though, and we are talking a few thousand dollars, small potatoes to be honest. I'm doing this for fun and some eventual work around my property, not because I'm doing jobs somewhere for extra cash. Hell, I've never even ridden or sat in a dozer before, I work in an office for my day job.
Matt, I seen the video and man that poor Kubota was grunting….lol
Now is the time to see if will rotate freely if not then are other issues
At least you are in a positive frame of mind. Not counting my D21, most of my used equipment have been "learning experiences" to get running again! My current project is an 8N Ford that I should have spent my money on a good running one. But, I'll know just what condition its in when I get it finished.
Not trying to rob a post here, but I have a 801 power master with the 177 ci engine that is basicly similar to the 8N and I have issues with that thing too. It is my nemesis. It has literally turned me against gas burners for farm/heavy equipment.
Since your this far in take the top plate of the clutch housing and see what kind of disaster is going on in there . Also check hyd . pump is not froze up. Bob
Drained and removed the hydraulic pump (thing is way heavier than it looks), no water in the fluid, and the valves appear to be good. Some grit came out, but doesn't look as bad as I thought it would be. Here are the leftovers from the bottom of the tank. Drained the clutch and flywheel compartments. Most concerning stuff was in there. Not much water, a lot of sludge, and some metal pieces. They look like gear teeth, but too small to be flywheel teeth. Since I'm pulling the engine, I'll get a better look at this later. Transmission fluid looked good. Clearly had a little water mixed in, but I've seen way worse. No grit or gear teeth in the bottom. Big relief. Steering clutch compartment full of water and oil. At this point it's clear I'll have to replace the steering clutches... was already kind of planning on this though because of how the levers feel when I pull them. Final drive oil was pristine. I filmed all the drainings here. Skip to 13:06 to see the deluge of water from the steering clutch compartment. Next up is pulling the radiator and injection pump. I've only snapped one bolt so far...I know it sounds silly, but this is my #1 gauge of how bad a project is. There's nothing that slows down progress more than a snapped bolt. Not sure if I should keep posting in here, don't want to keep bumping this thread and spamming the forum and annoying everyone. Let me know if I should stop, otherwise I'll keep posting updates.
Keep posting your progress, everybody likes to see old iron come back to life.
Absolutely agree!!!
This is extremely interesting! It lets people know what to expect with old machinery. AND, lots of pics!
love the dedication u puttimng on .. keep up the work bro
Got the radiator and injection pump removed. Also opened up another inspection cover on the crankcase. It just seems that there is this grit/gravel all throughout the engine. It has the consistency of something you would see at the bottom of a creek bed. Here is the output of the filter tower to the fuel rack (I believe this should be filtered fuel). The o-ring here was completely cracked in half, so that's probably the source of all the diesel in the crank case: The fuel rack itself looks like it's in good condition: Here is the inside of the inspection cove. Rods completely covered in very loose scale. Scale also sprinkled all over everything: It's very odd. Nothing is seized or corroded through, but everything has this rust/grit completely coating it. I feel pretty confident that I can get this engine running. It will just require a complete disassembly and cleaning.
Keep posting. I'm considering going down the same road with a D4d.
Will do! Also trying to record most of it and putting it on youtube (mostly so I remember how everything goes back together).
Pretty sure I have everything detached and all the geometries right to pull the engine without breaking anything. I'll find out tomorrow!
That grit is 'rust blooms' - Those tend to appear on iron in very humid environments. Given the oil pan was full of water, that is perfect conditions for creating a sauna. A wire brush will knock them down, and once you get the motor running, the oil will prevent the rust from continuing. It's a good call to tear down the motor. Those rust blooms would accelerate the wear inside the engine. Not sure what the teeth you found in clutch housing might be from. The steering clutches have small teeth on the plates, but I don't know if the main clutch had any teeth aside from the splines on the input shaft.
Got the engine out and oil pan off. Actually looks better than I was expecting. Lot of surface rust on the rods and crank, but bottom end of the cylinders are pristine (ignore my finger print smudges). If I had to guess, the hangup with it fully rotating is the camshaft. That thing is rough.
Here is the inside of the oil pan, in case anyone wants some chocolate pudding.
that cam shaft is toast
Yeah no polishing that one.
Yeah I've already started looking into finding a new one. I'm gonna dip it into some evaporust just to see how bad it is. Hoping to get it out tonight.
Camshafts can be reground. Might be worth looking into.
Cam gear won't be winning any beauty pageants either. Whoever invented evapo-rust, I'm about to put his kids through college.
Wow! Just think of the pure satisfaction you'll get when you repair all the damage and the engine cranks up for the first time!
Would be on ACMOC site trying to find a decent used gear and cam
Did the exact same thing with a 1953 Willys CJ3A when I was 16. It sure taught me allot of how to repair things.
Wire brush the gear and cam. I wouldn't worry too much about pitting on the cam gear unless it is really deep. I would be more concerned about pitting on the cam lobes.
Yeah there is a chance the gear might still be usable. We will see what happens after a week long bath in evaporust. Gotta remember this turns the cam, it's not a transmission gear. Doesn't require much torque to turn the cam, so some minor pitting in the teeth shouldn't cause anything to fail.
It depends. Some old engines had an integral crank gear ( non-replaceable) and you don't want to harm it if at all possible by running it with a rough cam gear in my opinion
Well at least I solved why the engine wasn't fully rotating. All the grit in the gear teeth were binding it up. Took a wire wheel to the teeth just so I could get enough rotation to access the bolts holding the cam in. Now that it's out the rotating assembly spins freely.
you could try Philips tractor in Gaston Oregon / or general gear out of Idaho ,, they both wreak tractors , might be cheaper than fixing old 1
Was going to check out Philips, its only about 5 minutes from where I got this tractor. Apparently the original owner died recently but his son is running it now.
you are not far from me im in hillsboro
Yeah me too, out on the southern edge. Small world!
Another guy you could try is Ed Miller over by Spokane, Wa. He has literally hundreds of cats and is sure to have a good running engine for you. If you want I’ll private message you his number.
Is this the same Ed Miller who used to have a fairly large operation in Edmonton? He was shut down for being involved with stolen equipment and selling parts off the stolen equipment.
No, this Ed Miller is a real honest stand-up guy. I've been buying parts from him since 2002 and he's been there for a long time before that too.
The shop in Edmonton was back in the 90's when it was shut down. They gave R Angus (the Cat dealer at the time) some serious competition. A field full of equipment was discovered and turned out to be stolen. An investigation pointed to parts and such going through Ed Miller. They had a big lawsuit against Caterpillar too. Miller (Ed) Sales & Rentals Ltd. v. Caterpillar Tractor Co. et al., (1994) 170 A.R. 341 (QB) - Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta (Canada) - Canadian Caselaw - Case Law - VLEX 680809517 www.legalviews.com/handbook/cases2/Caterpillar Tractor Co_ v_ Ed Miller Sales & Rentals (_2) (CA 1998) 216 AR 304_ 61 Alta LR(3d) 256.htm
I’d be VERY surprised if this is the same guy.
Hey I really appreciate the reply. I might be reaching out soon once I finish tearing down the engine. I'm trying to put together a list of what exactly I'll be needing.
He'd be quite old if it was the same guy.
It's been awhile, but so much has happened on this thing and I figured I'd update you guys on this. So first off, I've completely stripped down the tractor except for the undercarriage, which in my opinion is in decent shape. I'm replacing steering clutches, brakes, a couple broken gears in the transmission, main clutch, etc etc etc. Basically any wear parts. I've had no real problems sourcing stuff. General Gear in Idaho has basically every part I've needed, and the prices really aren't that bad at all. I've probably spent 2-3K there, but I'll have a brand new drive train (once I put it back together). The real problem with this tractor was the engine, it was completely toasted. It had ran with no oil, and it had sat and collected water for ??? years. I just today went and visited Phillips Tractor in Gaston Oregon, and unfortunately it is shutting down. The original owner has passed on, and his son is just not making money selling stuff. No one is buying the old tractor stuff anymore. Good news for me though, he sold me a working engine for $500. I took a few pics of his leftover machines and such. Sad that it's going away, but it's a bygone era I suppose. The father son team have probably touched every older machine in this area where I live, and there is a 99% chance that they did the conversion from pony to 12V start on my machine. Anyways, I just wanted to say that this has been a fun project and I can't wait to get it moving again so I can tear up some trails on my property. I've met a lot of great people and learned a lot of things. I don't regret buying this machine at all!
I have a friend who is a therapist. I was chatting with her over coffee, and mentioned that I bought a backhoe. I further related that I was having second thoughts on the purchase because I wasn't going to be using it every day, and that the cost was considerable. She immediately responded that I was missing the point. She asked me if I enjoyed working on the tractor? I responded affirmatively. She asked me if I felt as though I was over my head due to the learning curve. I nodded my head. She went on to explain that when someone faces a new situation where they face a steep learning curve to gain needed mastery, that process creates new neural pathways in the brain, and stimulates brain activity. She went on to explain that research found that people who continue to throw themselves into brand new, challenging situations maintain good heath, and those novel experiences insure that they will age well as they get older. People who stop involving themselves in new and previously unknown activities do not age well. In fact, many of them die after a mere six months of retirement. "You didn't buy a backhoe. You bought a health insurance policy. " Good for you for tackling this dozer project. When it's complete, it's your job to find the next project, and keep working. If you stop, you'll die.
Good deal Matt Watching every step on Utube
Hey Matt I thought this was you. I've been watching your videos and enjoy your work and the way you deal with the issues.
Sounds like you have a nice project there Lumberjack Matt. I've got several 1950s model 7U D4s. None of mine have winches but one has a PTO. They do alot of work for their size. You may be able to put an electric starter on it without touching the pony. I did that with one of mine.
Matt your YouTube videos have been awesome to watch- I’d like to award you the line of the year - “We’re not painting the Sistine Chapel; we're painting the bathroom that's in the Arby's three blocks down the road from the Sistine Chapel" Classic! Keep up the great work!!
It's been awhile (almost a year!) since I've put an update in this thread, but I'm still working on this thing and hopefully wrapping it up soon. Not getting project fatigue yet, but another 6 months and I might. So what all did this tractor need? It really only needed a new engine and radiator, that's why it was parked up. Looking back, I think I got lucky and this is probably the way to go with an old tractor like this. I will take a bad engine over a shot undercarriage any day of the week. The undercarriage on this machine is at about 50%, plenty of life for what I need. What have I done to the machine to make it (hopefully) reliable? Here are the big items replaced engine ($500) new radiator core ($800) replaced transmission gears ($200) new main clutch and pressure plates ($400) new steering clutches ($400) new brakes ($120) new track tensioner spring and arms ($350) rebuilt winch ($2200 including new rope) obviously a ton of other nickel and dime stuff that adds up to a few thousand more I'm finishing up painting now, and should maybe have it running and driving early October. Hopefully this thread serves to help others out on on deciding whether or not they want to pick up that rusty old piece of yellow metal rotting out in the woods somewhere.
more pics
Fantastic job of bringing it back to life!
SWEET!!
You'll get $10,000 worth of work out of her 4-5x over. It's a bit$h at first, but now you know what you own, and she'll give you good service.
I've been following you on Youtube since the beginning, You're doing a great job on this machine. I'm looking forward to see the excavator restoration when you get done here. between the two pieces you won't find much you can't do around the place. good luck with both in the future.
Looks good I’ve been keeping up with you on YouTube. You’re doing a good job.
You have inspired many Matt. You have done awesome job or OUTSTANDING! in my best USMC DI voice...LOL!
It took a couple years but she is finally done. Final price tag was around $14k. Kind of lucked out with it to be honest. The engine being shot is what parked it up instead of the UC being worn out. Seems like UC parts are much more expensive than engine/transmission/steering components.
Matt I'm new to reading this thread but not to heavy equipment, most of what I have worked on is 1960's and up, other than that old Mack in the picture to the left! Oh! and the 1947 Farmall BN I mow the bigger areas of the yard with. I like the things your friend the therapist said might want to have my wife talk to her. On a much smaller scale I've been working on an old mid 60's snow blower I think wife thinks I'm crazy as I have two good working 1980's machines sitting in the shed. A lot can be said for the satisfaction one can get from taking what one person would call scrap metal at the best and end up with something that will do the job it was built for when new.
Looks like new Matt, really good job. This is the best reason to be looking to purchase old machines, to restore them. You mentioned scrap price at the beginning, what ever the owner that is selling thinks his junker is worth in scrap, he or she be wrong. Its only worth that scrap price when it is on the scrap outfits scales, oh and us normal folks never get full at the time(changes daily), scrap price from a scrap dealer, they need a cut as well. Now to get that scrap dozer to the scrap place, it has to be moved from the sellers property, then there is the work to turn it into scrap, the torches and gases and labor, then again on a truck that burns fuel, driver, insurance etc. to get it to the scrap outfit. I'd say if it is thought that an old machine is worth $1500 in scrap, the actual amount a person may get after all the work if they are lucky would be $100. It maybe different if the scrap place has an excavator with a huge shear then you just haul the complete machine there, but again they will pay less because they factor in the machine time. Kinda like any other normal place that uses heavy equipment to do a job. Sorry to rant here the scrap issue always hits a nerve.
Matt I have to say, I watched the entire series as you posted it up and you have perseverance beyond most. You left no bolt unturned and made a like new old Cat that anyone would be very proud to own. I can't wait to see the excavator series when you get to that, and the work you'll be turning out with the equipment when it's ready for prime time.
I'm guessing this is one of your videos? Excellent video series, it would be as much work creating the video as doing the work. Shows those hoists will take the weight.
I really got my money's worth on that hoist, I went over capacity on it a few too many times. The hydraulic cylinder gave out at one point, but a new one was only like $90!
So now the question is, what are you going to get to use as a dozer? That is now a museum piece, too nice to scratch up, minds well paint the tracks and put in on show.