So, im going to attempt to rebuild both bucket tilt cylinders on my 1975 Case 580b. I went to my local Case dealer to order the kits. They need to know if its a single or twin piston inside the cylinder. Even though i had serial number they said that wouldn't help. I haven't taken the cylinders off yet or apart. Any ideas or will i have to pull it off and out before determining what i have?
Single or twin piston "inside" the cylinder Sure there not talking about if the bucket dump cylinder has one or two cylinders?
No, apparently they made both a one piece piston and a two piece. I have two tilt cylinders for my bucket
Your right, my bad Have found online listings for 580B and they list the B model can have 1 or 2 piece pistons. Was looking for a outside visual of something which would advise but have come up short
No problem. This is all new to me and i dont know how difficult it will be to do once i get it apart. Lol
Be sure to ask how much yhey are going to charge you for those kits. The prices at my local CNH dealer are stupid pricey. Over $100.00 @. Most likely it is a two piece piston. You will need to remove them to determine which one you have. Most likely it is a two piece piston. Be sure to remove the lock screw on the glands before attempting to unscrew them.
I haven't watched all of this, but he's resealing a 580B bucket cylinder. This will give you a good idea. I skipped the video passed the hose removal - don't forget that step. It picks up with removing the lock screw Tinkerer mentioned.
The price quote given to me was $103.00 for a one piston kit and $57.25 for a two piston cylinder. Ill watch the video.
Thank you for the video. I intended to take the cylinder off the machine but maybe its best for leverage etc to remove cylinder and just leave it on? Rebuild it like he did right on machine? Is there a whole lot more steps or difficulty with a two piston set up if thats most likely what i will have? Things to look for that could be damaged or broken causing an internal leak? I used Melgen's advice and tried working machine to feel the cylinder if it was hot to the hand touch while held under load. It was not? I already removed the bucket and have loader arms lifthed up high in my shop. I was curious as to why when i had removed bucket before to use my homemade forks to load logs that those Cylinders (both tilt cylinders) move in and out seperately? I figured they would both expand and contract under load the same? Any explanation for me if im making sense in how im explaining it?
I meant to say Melben's advice. Sorry.
I quit at 17:20 when he was using lineman's plyers to install the seal...There were some good points, but many not so good. 1. I would def. crack the gland nut while it was hooked up...tighten the bolt in the middle of the tool so it doesn't just flop around as you work it 2. Leave the gland in...the gland nut was right next to where he was hitting the pin with his fancy wood splitting tool/sledgehammer. 3. put an oil drain pan down first, not as an afterthought 4. use a come-a-long to get that linkage back...my older back was hurting just watching this young stud go 5. cleanliness is most important...clean the parts up prior to repacking the cylinder 6. once the rod is out, look down the bore of the cylinder to make sure it is not scored, or you will be wasting time and money repacking 7. do not expect your cylinder rod bolt to be loose like it was in the video. It will need to be tight when you are done (see the spec) 8. It was a good idea to reinstall the rod in the mount to crack the bolt, but be sure to protect the cylinder rod a little better. If the chrome is nicked, it will cut the new seals (also inspect the rod as soon as it is out to make sure it is not damaged 9. there is a set of 3 tools available to install the u-cup seal...they are cheep see a link below. This is just one brand, there are many others but all around $25, and worth it https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pc-Hydrau...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
If you noticed how easy the "nut" I mean bolt came out of the rod that was too easy..make sure you use red loctite when reassembling...If you have access to a ball type cylinder hone that's a bonus, you can also get kits online for about $30..Just remember the golden rule of any hydraulic repair...clean, clean, clean...And if you have to use the hydraulics to remove the rod , make sure you wrap it with an old bath towel and support it well so it doesn't get banged up.....and please don't have one of your pals catch it in the gut...BRILLIANT.
The hyd fluid will always take the path of least resistance. If nothing is connected to both cylinders, they'll act independent of each other. Condition of the packing on one cylinder may cause more resistance on one cylinder vs the other. The fluid will favor the cylinder with the easiest stroke until the cylinder has reached it's maximum stroke. The fluid then favors the other cylinder until it reaches the end of stroke. And yes, what they said about repacking. Lot's to learn about what to do and not to do in that video.
Lol. Thank you guys. On a two piston cylinder, if thats what i end up having, how are the two cylinders joined? Do they slide inside one another like a telescoping ram on a dumptruck or are they connected in another fashion? Anything to look for on those twin cylinders that may cause an internal leak or is it just packings and seals like a single cylinder style. Thanks for all your advice.
I honestly do not know the machine, and I am some on here are experts, that will hopefully chime in, but I think they mean 2 seal rings for the piston. I have rebuilt cylinders with 2 sealing rings in the past, as opposed to one that are on many types of equipment
There are no two piston cylinders on Case machines. The piston consists of two halves. The piston rings are clamped between them. The bolt on the end of the rod holds it in place. This image is your lift (typical) cylinder from the service manual. Do you need the service manual Angus ??
I should have manual downloaded from previous post. I will initially be working on tilt or curl cylinders. If u have page for diagrams of those you could send it. I have a smart phone and no home.computer and poor reception when im at home. Haha. Im assuming the dealer must have meant the two piec . Url rams as you describe
I won't be home until later this evening. I will post the procedure and torque secs. for the rod bolt then. The image above, is your loader hoist cylinder. All of your cylinders will be basically the same.
My skid steer has 2 piece pistons for the tilt. One has a slight bevel so the O-ring that goes around the rod in between them doesn't get damaged when assembling. Doesn't look like Case uses an O-ring in the middle but I think the idea behind the 2 piece pistons is so it's easier to install the seals on the outside. You don't have to stretch them to fit over the lip on the piston.
You are right Dave. Case piston seals are so easy to install even a drunken Siberian peasant could do them.
Do not forget that the Hydra leveling cylinder displaces oil to keep the bucket level from ground to full height, a leaky packing in the Hydra leveling could show up as a leak in the dump cylinders as far as leak out is concerned.
Thanks for that Mel ! I knew they are inter-connected. But I did not know about the leak interaction between them.
Is the hydra leveling cylinder the cylinder that is on the side by your right leg near the bucket control
Bucket control valve lever?
Is the one i posted the hydra cylinder?
Yes, that cylinder on the side levels the bucket.
Ok. Last year i heard a loud bang while lifting a heaping bucket of 3/4 inch driveway gravel. Since that time i have not had any down pressure with the front end loader. I used to be able to lift the front end of tractor off the ground by pushinf the loader arms down. Wont do that anymore and when i level my bucket to scrape the ground for leveling or pushing material the bucket will not stay. It just loosely follows the contour of the ground. Im sure there could be many reasons for this but i always wondered what that leveling rams purpose was. Guess ill have to check all of them to see if they need seals etc. Thank you.
Can you feel 4 distinct positions in the loader control valve ? Your description indicates that you are pushing the lever completely forward into the float position. The hydra-leveling cylinders have nothing to do with keeping the bucket level on the ground. Their purpose is to keep the bucket in fixed position when raising the hoist. That in turn prevents the operator from having the bucket contents dumped on him when the hoist is quite high.
Your symptom sounds like a broken bolt on a lift cylinder piston, the bang was probably the bolt snapping, when applying down pressure the piston is probably unseating from the rod and down pressure oil is being forced through the bolt area of the piston. A leaky Hydra leveling system packing could probably be linked to a bucket that will not maintain position as the oil leaking by the packing will allow bucket cylinder movement.
I can feel the four positions regarding the lever. Any idea which cylinder wld have the broken rod bolt?
Warm the hydraulic oil using another system, then hold the loader lift lever in down position and see which loader cylinder hose warms up, The warm cylinder is leaking internally, warm oil flowing through an internal leak should pick it right out for you, who knows why things happen, they do, yours is not the first, it may never happen again to you. Get a grade 8 bolt and use a drop or two of red Loctite to a cleaned and dry bolt thread and rod treads.
Will do Melben. Would it most likely be one of the two main loader lift cylinders? Or could it be any of those cylinders including the two curl rams? Thank you all of you for all your advice and help.
It can be any one of the four. Or even (unlikely) two of them . The hoist, and hydra-leveling cylinders. You will know when you do as Mel advised. For the sake of clarification, curl is sometimes to the bucket rollback /dump cylinder function.
If the curl is working good there is nothing wrong with the two dumps and the hydra leveling, they are not interconnected.
The curl will weep down fairly fast if i have a 600 to 800 lb round bale of hay on it...almost have to keep the lever favored to the curl back side to keep pressure to it if that makes sense. The lift has food power but also like i stated if i curl the bucket forward to try and make it level it will not stay in a fixed position. It follows countour or the grade of my driveway or whatever im trying to level.
Maybe the float valve is stuck
Does sound like a piston bolt broke.