What can I expect to pay for a 262D. 2 Speed Standard Flow Quick Coupler On Demand Fan Cab AC-Heat Radio Air Ride Seat Advanced Display Block Heater Rear Camera H4 Package
Right around $53k unless you can work a bettter deal. I just looked at them a few months ago equipped pretty much that way. That's what we started at but I wasn't happy with the service so it didn't go any further.
Todd, So you already had a cat and didnt like the service or machine so decided against getting another? Or you didnt care for the sales guy? What did you end up going with.
I did not have a cat but was looking at either a 246 or 262D with everything on you list but 2 speed. I actually liked the Cat machine better than the Bobcat S630 I ended up buying but the sales folks at my Cat dealer dropped the ball over and over. I gave them 2 weeks to get me a price on the machine I wanted, a 246D with the same specs, and they couldn't even seem to do that. They only wanted to sell me a machine that they already had and not even for the price as the one I had them spec. I demoed a S630 & A 262D and the Cat was much quieter and smoother IMO and I was a little leary of the Bobcat because it was a new engine that was unproven. It does have a DPF free exhaust system which I liked. The Bobcat machine has been great though so far, only about 150 hours at this point but no issues whatsoever and without the Cat machine next to it the issues i had are less noticable. The one thing that scared me about the D machine was the back door, i am in the woods a lot doing underbrushi g and clearing work and it wouldn't take much to do some real damage.
Depends a lot on dealer and what deals they have. Paid significantly less than that for ours that's equipped basically the same. The back door has a lot of strength to it. Ours has been smashed into a lot and out in the woods as well, it has a few dings but still works great. The trade off is that the engine compartment is now completely sealed and all air comes through the rear keeping things much cleaner. I wouldn't worry about DPFs, our local dealer has over 100 of the D series out and hasn't touched a DPF yet. The Bobcat doosan situation on the other hand has been a nightmare in winter on the mid size machines, not sure if a 630 would fit into that or not.
What's this all about ? - Pretty much every skid steer I've ever touched (other than my very old l425) has a door on the back. - My older Bobcat (model 642 with the inline engine set-up) has a nicer idea with the Radiator up top, so backing into brush an what-not is not so hazardous. Unlike pretty much every other make/model having the radiator at the back, where brush can easily stab in there. - I see the newer J.D. units having the fan poke in between the (2) radiators (set side-by-side in a "v"), putting it all the way to the rear, and maybe the fan can deflect/push/rattle the brush that gets stuffed in there. - I may need to visit cleveland brothers (the CAT dealer) for a looksee.
On the D's the air gets pulled through the back door and pushed up through the radiators the sit behind the cab, the a/c conde sor is the only thing on the door but It's mesh and I saw a big stick poking a hole through it. There is a decent bumper underneath that would keep it safe from simply backing into something without protrusions. As far as the fuel issues with Bobcat, I live in the south so the cold weather issues shouldn't be a problem for me. I believe they made a few changes to the filter system just before my machine was built, not sure if it's going to be a fix or not. My machine has the engine that has/had the issues though
On the D's the air gets pulled through the back door and pushed up through the radiators the sit behind the cab, the a/c conde sor is the only thing on the door but It's mesh and I saw a big stick poking a hole through it. There is a decent bumper underneath that would keep it safe from simply backing into something without protrusions. As far as the fuel issues with Bobcat, I live in the south so the cold weather issues shouldn't be a problem for me. I believe they made a few changes to the filter system just before my machine was built, not sure if it's going to be a fix or not. My machine has the engine that has/had the issues though
Cat doesn't and never has has radiators or coolers at the rear, always at the top and not stacked. The AC condenser was moved to the door though for easier cleaning and to get the coolest air like any condenser. They used to be behind cab in front of motor because air was drawn from the sides, now it's drawn from rear. The condenser stays a lot cleaner and is much easier to clean when needed. Limbs that would damage the rear door are pretty big, get the backup camera if that concerns you. It's mesh, but it's not made out of a popcan. Fuel issues are only part of the cold weather issues with the doosan. But they're only an issue if you have cold weather.
I liked the Cat cooling setup better. I wondered with all the cooling air being sucked across the engine, how much dust and dirt would buildup in there. With the Bobcat machine it pulls air down through the coolers as they always have and I have to keep it clean, I would bet it would be much less to deal with on the Cat since it pulls air through a vertical grate that debris could fall off of rather then one that debris can just sit on like on the Bobcat. I run a furnace filter under the grate, ontop of the coolers and it keeps the coolers very clean, I just need to stop every now and then to pull out the filter and beat the dirt out. The cheap ones work best as they don't hold the dirt in.
Curious as to what your experience has been when your cat d series goes into regen while operating it and if there is a power loss when it does. What is the issue with fuel and the doosan motors in the winter? I borrowed a buddys Diesel lawnmower this past summer that sucked air down from the top then thru the rad. When I finished and got off the mower I couldnt believe the amount of debris laying on top of the mesh grate that protects the radiator. The debate I suppose will go on forever on which way is best, cooler air from the top (which I guess is debatable as hot air rises) being drawn thru or dirty hot air drawn in from the rear. Another friend had a NH skid and swore he'd never by another as they place their rads at the rear of the machine at the door, with a fan drawing air in from rear thru the rad then thru the engine area. Said he replaced a few radiators as the dirt and sand would literally sandblast holes in his radiator. Which brings me to.... Bobcat stacks 2 different coolers (Coolant and Hydro-correct), Cat uses one rad for both coolers. Has there been problems where maybe the coolers would need replaced. As I could see where the bobcat would be cheaper if only one needed replaced as they are separate whereas you would be replacing one whole unit (both) on the cat.
The coolant and hydro cooler are one peice in the new machines, the condensor is stacked on top and there is a small fuel cooler below the condensor on the same plane.
On the Bobcat machines I meant.
Gotcha was thinking they were seperate units, its the condenser then that is stacked So do you know if bobcat (or doosan) has addressed the cold weather issue with their engine, what has been done if anything?
Fine dust obviously still gets through, but the new setup actually seems to do a good job of staying sealed and keeping large debris out. With all of the bedding/feed we deal with, previous generations would have piles next to the engine in no time. The D just collects a lot of dust, a quick rinse and its good again. Haven't had it to the point its ever actually gotten hot, but we don't run them extremely hard and clean them fairly often. If you ever work around the machines, having the Cat blow the air vertically versus out the side at the ground crews can be nicer. Nothing more lovely than a Bobcat blowing a pile of manure in your face. Had one place I had to unload "fiber" (aka dry poop) at that had a Bobcat to push it into shed as I unloaded. Old trailer I had to stand at the back to run controls and get blasted with the crap every time he went by. Got a wireless control with the new belt and can now stand out of the "blast zone" lol. Haven't had it go into any sort of Active regen yet with 800hrs+. I don't put a ton of hours in the seat and non of the other operators mentioned seeing the light for an active regen. Talked with the service manager at dealer about it for awhile and he said very few people have ever mentioned having an active regen. Now not all operators notice everything, but they haven't had to clean any of them at the shop either yet which is pretty impressive, but DPF's have been out for awhile now and the teething issues seem to have worked themselves out. There should be no power loss during an active regen on almost any brand machine. All DPF's have passive regeneration which is the filter cleaning itself automatically with no additional input because the engine is being worked hard enough to produce enough heat. Then there are active regen's which use a variety of things to force the exhaust temp high enough to clean the DPF. Then there are service regen's which a dealer usually has to do with the diagnostic software due to some sort of issue or operators repeatedly ignorning normal requests for regens. Then there is cleaning of the DPF itself off of the machine. This is different than a regen. a regen simply reduces the trapped material to ash and the rest of the material trapped with the ash goes out of the exhaust. The ash cannot pass through the media and stays in the filter. Eventually the ash content reaches a level where the filter needs to be cleaned or replaced. Cat has rated these filters for aropund 4-5000hrs but operating conditions factor into that heavily. Fuel system had issues with gelling. AFAIK that has been resolved, however the engines run in a reduced power mode until warmed up which can sometimes take a very long time apparently. Hasn't sat well with some farmers around here. Air in the rear isn't dirty or hot, drawing it across the engine adds heat, but you will see on the D series that they left a huge gap between the coolers and the engine for the air to travel through, I don't think it really picks up a significant amount of heat from the engine. Unfortunately this meant making the ass end as tall as the empire state building. If you work in tight quarters, the backup camera is very helpful. That is very true, some farms around here were having issues with the radiators getting sandblasted. Unless you drop a tree on them or something, you should be fine. The Cat coolers are bar and plate style versus the cheaper/lighter tube and fin like the NH machines have. I don't recall what style Bobcat uses but wouldn't be too worried. I just checked the price on the Radiator/Hydro cooler assembly for a 262D Cat and its less than $900. The radiator alone for an L225 NH is $1,200 plus around $600 for the hydro cooler. Don't know Bobcat prices or have a way to look it up, just a comparison. Not a common wear part though unless its a poor design like the NH (the place I checked has them in stock if that says anything)
Bear with me.. Doesn't diesel fuel gel in the winter if it gets too cold, so why the fuel system problem gelling with a bobcat but not with other brands of skids? Fuel is gonna gel no matter what you put it in correct? And dont all diesel engines have to run for a while in the winter to 'warm up' before you have full power? I have a early 2000's CUT and have the same problem in the winter it needs to warm up before you can get full power out of it, you can run it but its gonna run in reduced power until warm. So im not sure im understanding what the difference is I guess between what you are saying about the problems with the doosan and my CUT that doesnt have all the emissions crap. just trying to understand these doosan engines, as dealers dont tend to say much about the cold weather issue. Thanks for the help
Of course they don't say much about it. Diesel fuel has a cloud point. The point wax crystals form. This wax impedes flow. Modern injection systems use very fine micron filters which causes restriction issues sooner. Yes other OEMs do as well but evidently their fuel system is working. Fuel heaters help. Too and many have them. The warming up issue is not limited power like cold diesel, the ECM is limiting your power.