Don't know much about it, I came across it in my travels yesterday... When I went to take pictures of it a guy came over and told me the deck fell down, they were hauling loam with it at the time... He thinks his boss wants $2500 for it as is... Don't know anything else about it...
LOL 2500!!! Scrap metal isn't worth that much these days is it? That truck is scrap with a frame like that.
That could be fixed. Can't it?
sure it could be...it wouldn't be road legal though...no welds on the frame according to DOT
welds piff just bend it back and bolt some 3/8x 5' plate on there good as new.... Ya'll ought to see a logging truck we converted to a water truck. The frame flexes 1.5-2" when its loaded driving on ground thats a little bumpy.
How are trucks stretched? No welds?
an extra rail is BOLTED IN that is how it is done here, and that hino is junk or more then what was when it was built
I think they get whole new chassis rails, build to the custom size. Might pay to ask this fella http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hdi1RyBD4E Far as that Hino goes, they should have extended the reinforcing all the way along the chassis rails, you can see how it bend just where the reinforcing stops. More than likely it bend while tipping, as it appears the hydraulic ram sits in the middle as opposed to the front where they usually reside. Either that or the body was not lowered all the way and 3/4 of the weight was sitting in the middle.
The ones a friend of mine do are both welded and have a bolted "bandaid" in side the frames rails. Depending on the application they will move the axles back as far as possible and add the frame after the axles.
Well most guys that strech out there trucks cut them just in front o the tandems. Because they dont want to have to drill all new spring/air ride hanger holes! Others do rerails but it is time consuming and very expencive. Here is my buddy Jason's WELDED frame rail! http://www.fabercustomtrucks.com/images/Shorty5_003.JPG
Hendrik, that fella you linked the video to is a very good friend o mine, Richie Acosta. That truck was ordered rom the peterbilt factory with a wheelbase of 350 inces. it has a double frame witch means it has a rame rail inside the other frame rail. here is the build pics http://www.gotwheelbase.com/photo_album3.html
The failure is nothing to do with the manufacturer. It looks like the truck is being used in a dump truck application, or at least weight wise it is. That chassis is an extra long and design for 5-6 tonnes payload at best. 5 cubic metres of loam will go seven tonnes loam and it would need to be spread thin and even. The extra long chasis is for light goods...not dirt.
I would like to know more about this could you show the rule ?
yeah i'd like to see that to....
There is a pile of rules for modifying vehicles from stock, any mods have to be approved by an engineer and certified.
Ummm, Not Exactly.
OK the Hino could be repaired, There is a rule over here, that there is to be no welding to sides of rails, so you wood have to replace the rail or cut and have patch rail placed in behind and drilled and bolted. I have seen this type of repair done but not very often as it nearly worth more then the truck is so yes it can be repaired but it is not worth it
I was thinking a guy might be able to buck it off where it's bent and then move the axle forward but then you'd end up with a REALLY short little buggy... But that's just another project I don't need right now...
well there is here
Good point, I forget about all you Australians being on here. :drinkup
Yeah we don't like badly modified vehicles causing deaths. I won't bore you would our rules pertaining to vehicle modifications but lets just say if it deviates from the manufacturers design it has to be approved. We have big stickers on truck rails that state "no welding on drilling" and everyone in the industry knows not to mess with the chassis. It is a sensible thing born out of accidents involving badly repaired trucks falling apart. You can pretty much do what you like as long as an certified engineer gives you a piece of paper to say it meets Australian design rules. You might wanna google ADR's and spend 2 weeks reading em and another 6 years trying to understand them.
And then find the way you understand them is different to the engineer then find the DOT man has never unstod them but he know what it means and you and the engineer are wrong
I have always been told and have red and understood you can wield on the face of the frame not the flange of the frame. I have done so several times my self and have had no problems with the frame or DOT inspections. Just my 2 cents.
My understanding is that truck chassis rails are made of a high tensile steel that has some flex in it, welding it causes it to be not so flexible and thus crack and then break. Same with drilling holes in it, drill a hole in the wrong spot and BANG you have a problem.
Thats how we do it. Weld or drill the face but not the flange. That would be a real productivity killer to have to get engineers approval for every pump frame or trailer hitch install.
Safety before productivity. Most big trailer manufacturers have accreditation to sign off on a job. The smaller ones get an engineer to come around and inspect the work before the paint goes on. Better that than have a truck come apart due to some backyarder thinking he/she knows how to do the job.
What ever makes you feel all warm, fuzzy and safe. Sorry if it does nothing for me. I have seen some of the crap that an engineer can turn out. IMO to have to have a engineer sign off for me to drill a hole in my frame is just another level of regulation in an all ready over regulated industry.
Its not even worth the fix. those old cabover hino's are fairly rare and parts are made out of GOLD! their nothing like the new hino conventional. I have heard brake parts exceeding the $1000 mark. Even if you get the thing back strait as an arrow and operational its still going to be a hino cab over with horrible parts availability that hasn't lead an easy live and will require substantial repairs. Frame splices are common here in the states. The DOT still has the authority to shut you down on the spot if they find a repair thats suspect or improperly done.
Well you do things your way and we do things our way. You probably get away with it because your trucks go on nice smooth roads and are pulling little loads, when you have a 120 tonne road train going over a corrugated dirt road, things have to be right. Perhaps when you have seen a fully loaded road train starting off you will understand the stress that is placed on the chassis rails.
well i now know for a fact that Hendrik has never been to America. Smooth roads HAHAHAHAHA
Well I am going on all those bikers riding hardtails Worst bitumen road I have ever been on was the road between Mt Isa and the Northern Territory border, this was while I was riding an American two wheeled road tractor and I was doing 60k's trying not to fall into some of the meter wide potholes.
Truth be told most of those hard tails belong to bar racers. They just race around from bar to bar within the city limits scarring old Lady's and making baby's cry. Very few of them have the stones or the kidneys to run down the highway on them.
Well ,due to the long wheelbase & bed ,it looks like the hino bent the frame while trying to dump the load as it looks in the picture being bent at the bed hoist.It's not the trucks fault,It's who mounted the bed & hoist.The frame can be repaired.
Well i have, spent about 3 months in 2006 and again last year and most of that was in a truck and i can tell you most of your roads and a dream to drive, There are sections of main hi way here that are one lane undivided road linking state capitals together.
if i knew where the citation was from the PaDOT I could show you...but i don't remember where we put it...hell after that ticket we might have burned it haha
Dirt Digger What was the ticket for ? Poor quality, improper repair ? Did you weld a accessory or attachment that should have been bolted? Are you people saying that all the trucks with pintle hook plates welded on the rear frame are illegal?- That would be a lot of tickets! I asked that ? to see if there had been a rule change that I was unaware of - or over the a lot of years I have seen a lot of people Say that the DOT Requires this or that just to lend credence to their statement. - I saw a Driver claim that a truck was illegal to drive because of no air cond.Another claimed dot required power tarps , yet another said air gates were required In yet another situation the owner of a construction co. bought an air tag for a newly acquired stretch trailer = the owner decided to have it mounted slightly closer than distance required for 20,000 lbs. increase -Well the TRUCK BOSS screamed and hollered and claimed the DOT would not recognize the axle ,we had to do it the way he said= After causing a lot more research ,delaying the project it was found to make 500 lbs difference ( could carry 19500) - To mount where truck boss wanted would have required A MAJOR rebuild So over the years I have decided it makes more sense for the person saying the DOT says this or that to show me - after all they have have seen the rule and should be able to show it. - RIGHT
the truck was a 10-wheel dump and the crack was right behind the cab on the passenger side frame rail on the bottom of the frame (a bending crack)...the crack was welded but never ground down to be honest the ticket was 3 or 4 years ago and I know the boss took it to court and got a few things lifted by the judge...the frame may have been one of them...but the fact that the inspector saw it and wrote it down is one inclination that they look for that type of stuff
DOT Required frame welds like you described to be ground smooth, no valleys or davits , then finished with 8o grit - followed by paint- in other words it should not show- that does not mean you can not do it reason for requirement was to prevent a crack from recurring -weld under cut
I believe you will find the repair manuals from US Trk. man. include a frame section ( at least older ones do) These will tell you it is not recommend - then tell you exactly how to do it. This would include those trks that have stickers on the frame By the way Trk - trailer - even cars are designed to flex- early truck frames had great big "Fish plates" Riveted Or bolted to the frame - some being as thick as 1/2" hanging below the frame 8 " (that being the heaviest I have seen) This did not work well
I have been around a long time - I have see a lot of frame work from horrible to excellent, I have also seen broken frames- I have never seen any or heard of any families being killed or maimed- I guess I been somewhat sheltered. The broken frames I have seen ,did so at low speed, and generally off road getting ready unload Although I never have keep records to bear this out the most common broken frame I have seen would be R models under the clutch pedal- and when breaks you can hear it for 1 mile away BIG BANG!
Since I am on a Roll here Just what is a "BACKYARD MECHANIC " I think a lot if not most here would or have qualified for this title, Yet some of the worst frame work I have seen was done by a local trk . DEALERSHIP , that should certainly have known better than to repair broken cross members by welding to main frame rails - not once but three times - then told the guy to bad ,you need a whole new frame I repaired it in my back yard - and it was still good when he sold trk 5yrs later. Another so called qualified trk repair place thought mounting a fifth wheel by means of cutting holes in frame with torch, was quality work I am trying to say that there is good and bad in every type of buss. Just because it is one man shop does not mean poor quality. A lot of these small buss. were people that worked at dealerships and were factory trained . Even if they were not it does not make them the village idiot In my case I went to NHTI passing their course in welding i went to work building modular home transport trailers, then Uncle Sam put me through a welding course in the Army for repairs to their equipment. I passed the bridge welding qualification in 5 states. In the 45 years that I have been working I have both gone seminaries and study on my own to better myself. I believe most on this board try to do this also, or they would not be here So I consider Hendricks reply about people doing their own work are incompetent an insult to all of us
You may do all the considering you like but the fact remains that for some jobs you need expertise, seeing you have this expertise perhaps you could enlighten us to what sort of steel is used in truck chassis rails, the type and amperage of the welding rod and then explain how the metallurgy of the steel changes either side of the weld. The some of us backyarders can really lay into those rails and do some fancy work. I would like to mount a tool box on the chassis of my truck and would just love to weld a frame to the chassis, which would be easier than using the existing holes to bolt a tool box to the truck. Anyway I have nothing against encouraging people to do things for themselves but..... For instance I do most things around the house but the one thing I don't do is major electrical wiring. Why? Because if I make a mistake and burn the house down, what do you think the insurance company will say? Good job Hendrik, you had a go, here is your cheque to build a new house. And funnily enough we have a whole bunch of rules pertaining to electrical wiring but I guess they are more unnecessary rules in an over regulated industry.
I believe that he just said that he has the expertise... So, are you complaining about Oz DOT rules or saying that the US rules are unacceptable to you ? From this post and the ones about lifting the septic tank I don't believe that statement. And if the structure that you built falls down what will they say then? Did you get an engineers stamp? Was it inspected by a certified carpenter? Are you trained in the workings of a stove with a safety certification before making your breakfast? We have rules too and we are trying to get to the bottom of what they really are, not rumors, interpretations or misunderstandings of them. Getting good information to the HEF peeps is what this site is all about.
Truck frames Dang,My local fire department called me last month to look at a truck that needed the frame shortened so they could mount the pumper body on the newer truck chassis.I guess we will have to start a new thread on stretching & shortening truck frame's & drive shaft's ,drilling holes & double framing for the membors that have not done it .
Onewelder very good information and points. We have done 6 truck in our shop and never had a problem, dump trucks, semi, and roll offs. We cut the frames on a 45 grind the edges to make a v, triple weld and grind smooth paint. A couple we have added an inner frame, and went pass the weld. If you take your time and do the job right it will be fine, we have have several DOT inspections and never been mentioned. We have welded the end of the frames for pintle hitches and hinges for dump beds. In fact we have a dump truck that we purchased new that had the rear frame cut on the flange, and a piece welded in for the rear hinges. We weld on the face and the flanges, but we bolt on any accessories or buck rivets. This is just my opinion and experiences, I have always heard the stories about modifying a frame, never been able to find the DOT regulations, even ask our local DOT enforcement guys but they done the inspections we no problems. I'm sure I will get some differences of opinions, can't wait to read. As for the Hino, I think it was way too long of a frame for a dump, to someone wasted their money on the whole set up, would have to be a bulk light payload.
Expertise perhaps in sticking a couple of bits of metal together, I have that too but don't go thinking I can tackle rebuilding a broken truck chassis and then hope it will hold together. Just because it hasn't broken yet does not mean it will never break. No point complaining about rules, I just find it kind of amazing that anyone with a welder can repair a truck chassis in the country that put a man on the moon. I actually feel happy that there are standards in place pertaining to the structural strength of trucks going down the highway at a 100ks and weighing up to 120 tonnes (well trains are only do supposed to do 80), furthermore it makes me feel a bit better if I get a job to drive a truck to know it has not been messed with by a back yarder, although a back yarder can fix a chassis as long as he/she has a welding ticket to show the engineer. If you choose to re-read the septic post you may notice that I have given a fair bit of advice, however the original question left me wondering what the person knows and does not know. There is also a standard of care that has to be practiced on this type of forum, where sometimes it has to be said that the planned job is beyond the capabilities of the individual. The funny thing is that no-one apart from myself even bothered to discuss slinging methods. Someone who can not work out the lifting capabilities of an excavator may well also not be able to sling a load safely. Now if you are happy to have people crushed under septic tanks because someone on some forum said "go for it, you'll be fine" then so be it but I like to put caution into my advice and make people stand back and think it through. I am pretty handy with my hands and generally build things way beyond what is required and I do seek advice when I am not sure. I do not cut corners to save a buck on material and have learnt a long long time ago that doing a job properly is the only way to go. There is little point in having rules that no one can understand or even find, that is your problem, we have people that are professionals in implementing these rules. I do not install septic tanks, that is a job for a plumber, although I could if I wanted to but may well be in trouble with the local council unless if could provide evidence that the structure was inspected by a qualified person. I do not re wire houses, that is a job for an electrician, although I could if I wanted too but if the house burnt down I would be in the deep end unless I can produce a certificate of standard from an electrician. I do not fix truck chassis, that is a job for body builder and I could not do that because I am not a qualified boilermaker and a boilermaker is not able to give an certificate of competency because he/she cannot see what is in the weld. That's the way it is and there is a reason for this.
pffffffffffffffft aluminum frame
Yes Hendrick - I will put up some information - Perhaps YOU could also post some information on Injury's due to frame Failures-? that would help the board decide if this is actually a problem or not ?
25C I am willing t to contribute - I do have some info from spicer on drive shafts, like all things that is a place to get into trouble , if you do not follow basics
Tonka- I have to admit that caught me by surprise - aluminum frame around here is a rarity, the last one I remember was sixty's Autocar It looks like you certainly have it well under control- nice looking job
There are more than just this way to do this - I used this book because so much info. is all together- Because the majority of trks . I worked on were construction trks. that ran heavy to off road sites (possibly overweight)- I ran face pl. on outside as well as a sleeve on inside- ( keep in mind it would have to be a least double frame) On the less extreme trks I used a sleeve as Bill described- On single frame over the road trac. I have also just put in very small gusset that is welded but not fully
Oh You Diffidently should not weld a tool box to the face of the frame as this would be an accessory
Yeah that is a California, Peterbilt 359 that a guy i know is restoring. It was sleeved with a steel sleeve. The steel sleeve ate up the rails, so he cut them off and had a cert. welder, weld it up or him.
Ok here we go there is different way of doing thing's between the states and here aust, There is a big differences in the way we do truck repairs and also how we operate the trucks, there are also big differences in the way trucks are built here you can not take a US built truck and import to here and put it on the road with doing some modifying apart from converting the steering you also need to change the front axle to heaver spec axle and also change the set up of the air brake system, so as you can see what we think is the wrong way of doing some thing here may be the way it done there, And god bless all 8 years on after the world changed for ever
You might find an idiot who will pay 2500 for it for a parts truck
According to FMCSA guidelines there is no rule prohibiting welding of truck frame rails. I don't know how to create a link but it's all there on the FMCSA website - maybe one of you more computer savy guys could create a link for everyone to see
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...spx?chunkKey=0901633480023963&keyword=welding (d) Parts and accessories shall not be welded to the frame or chassis of a commercial motor vehicle except in accordance with the vehicle manufacturer’s recommendations. Any welded repair of the frame must also be in accordance with the vehicle manufacturer’s recommendations.
whoever done that al. frame does some pretty work. welded a few steel frames and never had a problem. saw folks have problems just not me, yet. in my youth i tested everything i got near so i trust welded frames. (been told i could tear up a train rail with a marshmallow mallet)